Nvidia killing GameStream on SHIELD TV, says "use Steam Link instead k thanks bye"

staknhalo

staknhalo

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Sucks because Gamestream always had the lowest latency and was the most stable for me, hopefully Moonlight clients continue to work
 
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staknhalo said:
It's not Geforce Now, it's GameStream - the thing to stream your own games from your own computer to the SHIELD TV in the living room, etc

There is no subscription
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Oh my mistake. The idea of Geforce Now was interesting, but with all the different services i am burned out from all the subs. Just assumed it was this. Didn’t even know my Shield would do that lol…
 
I've had better luck with Steamlink or Moonlight anyway personally. I've mostly been using Steamlink exclusively the last few years.

And I don't need the damn GeForce Experience to use it.
 
TheSlySyl said:
I've had better luck with Steamlink or Moonlight anyway personally. I've mostly been using Steamlink exclusively the last few years.

And I don't need the damn GeForce Experience to use it.
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I used the Moonlight app over the official one, but that relies on the GameStream backend in GeForce Experience. That's going away too. Won't need to install GE anymore at least.

Moonlight have their own backend called Sunshine but it's still not there yet.

I tried Steam Link tonight and still noticably worse with latency, for me at least :/

Not like I'm really gonna have a choice, regardless :/ :/
 
staknhalo said:
I used the Moonlight app over the official one, but that relies on the GameStream backend in GeForce Experience. That's going away too. Won't need to install GE anymore at least.

Moonlight have their own backend called Sunshine but it's still not there yet.

I tried Steam Link tonight and still noticably worse with latency, for me at least :/

Not like I'm really gonna have a choice, regardless :/ :/
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Steamlink is VERY particular about settings i've noticed, make sure that you do stuff like turn bandwidth to "unlimited" and visuals to "quality" and that kind of stuff. Advanced settings make a difference and so does your router.
I also never steamlink FPS, which I'm sure are *much* more intense and require more precision than the mostly action-RPGs that I do steamlink. I'm 100% Mouse/Keyboard and higher framerates for my FPS so they tend to stay at my desktop. Stuff like Witcher 3 and Elden ring, and most recently Persona 5, etc, steamlink through my shield works amazing.
 
Yeah I'll play around with those settings and see - I was testing with settings at fast encoding and 20Mbps I think. I also only use it for third person and controller playable games, FPS games I still play with m&kb at the actual computer.

There's also Parsec as another alternative.

Another problem though is I really like using 4K HDR with GameStream and Steam Link doesn't support HDR. And my monitor does HDR but no local dimming whereas 2 of my TVs where I GameStream do.

The Sunshine/Moonlight combo will support 4K HDR though so I'll just have to keep an eye on the Sunshine host until it's usable for me, use Steam Link in the meantime.

GameStream was like the backbone of my smart home for distributed gaming for the past 8 years, then Nvidia throws this at me. Thanks Jensen 🙃🔫
 
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Thx Nvidia

- you just turned my Shield TV Pro into a brick as far as I am concerned. That is exclusively how I used the device these days since my LG TV is still better for streaming apps than the Shield.
So, you either deal with GeForce Now in super slow free mode, or pay up at $9.99( or even $19.99) a month for a service that doesn't work all that well IMHO. Yup - I'll be selling my Nvidia Shield and I'm sure the price will be coming down with all the other ones flooding the market. Smooth move Nvidia!
 
johnrea77 said:
Thx Nvidia

- you just turned my Shield TV Pro into a brick as far as I am concerned. That is exclusively how I used the device these days since my LG TV is still better for streaming apps than the Shield.
So, you either deal with GeForce Now in super slow free mode, or pay up at $9.99( or even $19.99) a month for a service that doesn't work all that well IMHO. Yup - I'll be selling my Nvidia Shield and I'm sure the price will be coming down with all the other ones flooding the market. Smooth move Nvidia!
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unfortunate, but i'm sure the business case for this was big. Users affected is minimal at best in the grand scheme.
 
johnrea77 said:
Thx Nvidia

- you just turned my Shield TV Pro into a brick as far as I am concerned. That is exclusively how I used the device these days since my LG TV is still better for streaming apps than the Shield.
So, you either deal with GeForce Now in super slow free mode, or pay up at $9.99( or even $19.99) a month for a service that doesn't work all that well IMHO. Yup - I'll be selling my Nvidia Shield and I'm sure the price will be coming down with all the other ones flooding the market. Smooth move Nvidia!
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Would this still work ?:
https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine
Sunshine is a Game stream host for Moonlight. Sunshine is a self hosted, low latency, cloud gaming solution with support for AMD, Intel, and Nvidia gpus. It is an open source implementation of NVIDIA's GameStream, as used by the NVIDIA Shield
 
Here's Moonlight's announcement regarding it - TLDR, till Feb at least, will work on Sunshine more

https://github.com/moonlight-stream...IA-GameStream-End-Of-Service-Announcement-FAQ

This FAQ page covers frequently asked questions about NVIDIA's GameStream End of Service Notification.

Why does NVIDIA's announcement impact Moonlight?​

The Moonlight project implements unofficial open-source clients for NVIDIA GameStream. The host software that Moonlight connects to is part of NVIDIA GeForce Experience, so it is under NVIDIA's control and depends on their ongoing effort to fix bugs and implement new host-side features. NVIDIA has recently announced that they will no longer be supporting the GameStream feature.

While NVIDIA's announcement is primarily centered around the removal of GameStream support from their official NVIDIA Games client, it's highly unlikely that they would continue to invest maintenance resources in the host software when no official clients exist. For this reason, we believe that NVIDIA will fully remove GameStream support in a future update to GeForce Experience.

If/when NVIDIA removes the GameStream functionality from GeForce Experience, Moonlight will no longer be able to connect to it for streaming.

What does this mean for Moonlight?​

In the short term, nothing. Moonlight will continue to be usable with host PCs running the latest version of GeForce Experience until at least mid-Feburary, according to NVIDIA's announcement.

Inline with our long-term goal of providing an excellent open-source game streaming solution, we will increase our efforts to improve the Sunshine project, which acts as an a free open-source host for Moonlight. In addition to NVIDIA GPUs on Windows, Sunshine supports hosting on AMD and Intel GPUs and on macOS and Linux. It's not at performance parity with GeForce Experience yet, but we hope that we can close the performance gap and improve ease of use by the time that support for GameStream in GeForce Experience is dropped.

By investing our time in making Sunshine a top-tier game streaming host, we can ensure that the whims of a single company cannot unilaterally impact the game streaming community again.

What will happen to Moonlight in mid-February?​

NOTE: The following is educated speculation based on our experience with GeForce Experience updates. We may update this if new information arrives.

Past mid-February, the status of the hosting GeForce Experience is unclear. It's likely that the GameStream functionality will be present in GeForce Experience for a little longer, since major GeForce Experience updates don't arrive very often.

Even when the functionality is removed in GeForce Experience, it is likely that GameStream can still be used by running older versions of GeForce Experience (and blocking the automatic update mechanism). This might also require older GPU drivers, but historically older GeForce Experience versions and GameStream have been compatible with newer drivers without issue.

Because GeForce Experience contains a list of GameStream-supported GPUs, it is likely that GPUs launched after mid-February will not be usable for GameStream, even running older versions of GeForce Experience.

How will Moonlight change after GameStream support is removed from GeForce Experience?​

That will depend on how the removal works in practice and what our users want.

If the majority of users continue to stream from older versions of GeForce Experience, the changes to Moonlight will probably be minimal. If streaming from older GeForce Experience versions becomes impossible or impractical, we will focus on writing more Sunshine-specific features.

While the performance and capabilities of GameStream in GeForce Experience was excellent, it did limit our capabilities in some ways. For example, microphone support was implemented for GeForce Now but never for GameStream. Similarly, major features like PS4 or Xbox One controller emulation, trigger rumble support, client-side cursor rendering, and AV1 encoding support were not possible due to host and GameStream protocol limitations. Now that we no longer have to worry about introducing compatibility issues with future versions of GameStream, we can implement features like these in Sunshine.

In any case, it is unlikely that we will remove support for streaming from GeForce Experience for the foreseeable future, even if Sunshine becomes the preferred hosting solution for Moonlight.

Was the Moonlight team given advance notice of this?​

No, we found out when the public announcement was made.

While it would have been nice to know in advance, it's completely understandable that NVIDIA did not do so. We have no official relationship or agreement with NVIDIA, so there is no NDA in place or anything that would provide legal protection for them that we wouldn't leak the news to the media (though we would certainly not have done so, even in the absence of such an agreement).
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If an update removes the feature then I would just not update. Nvidia's GameStream is independent from Nvidia's network so I don't see how this feature can't be ripped off the rom and just put into newer roms? There are also a number of custom roms for these devices and some of them do come with the GameStream feature. You have a ton of choices for custom roms on the Shield. As for why, I can only think of it competing against Nvidia's Geforce Now service. This is what I mean in that you don't want OEM's controlling the software that was included with your device that you paid for. Doesn't matter if Steamlink or Moonlight is better, it's a matter of Nvidia not being committed to the projects they sell you.
 
I am confused here. I use moonlight-qt on my Raspberry Pi to stream games from my PC to my Pi in the living room. I have frequently setup an offline LAN between my Pi and the PC and have still been able to stream games running locally on my PC without issues. Is NVIDIA changing something that will impact my ability to use Moonlight offline or is this a server change that only affects people doing some sort of online streaming? The only way I could see how my ability to use Moonlight would be impacted would be if NVidia forced some kind of driver update on me that removes GeForce Experience from my PC. My answer to that would just be to not update drivers.

I tried Steamlink on the Pi but it was awful. There is a 300mS delay lag that makes anything other than turn-based strategy RPG's extremely difficult to play. I have tried tinkering with every setting that I can think of but nothing makes Steamlink better, it is a steaming pile on the Pi pun intended. Moonlight-qt on the Pi is comparatively amazing, very minimal lag and great 1080p 30fps performance. I will be very disappointed if anything happens to my ability to use Moonlight on the Pi. I spent a full week pulling my hair out a month ago getting Moonlight to finally work for me on the Pi and converted away from SteamLink. I am not going back...
 
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gvx64 said:
I am confused here. I use moonlight-qt on my Raspberry Pi to stream games from my PC to my Pi in the living room. I have frequently setup an offline LAN between my Pi and the PC and have still been able to stream games running locally on my PC without issues. Is NVIDIA changing something that will impact my ability to use Moonlight offline or is this a server change that only affects people doing some sort of online streaming? The only way I could see how my ability to use Moonlight would be impacted would be if NVidia forced some kind of driver update on me that removes GeForce Experience from my PC. My answer to that would just be to not update drivers.

I tried Steamlink on the Pi but it was awful. There is a 300mS delay lag that makes anything other than turn-based strategy RPG's extremely difficult to play. I have tried tinkering with every setting that I can think of but nothing makes Steamlink better, it is a steaming pile on the Pi pun intended. Moonlight-qt on the Pi is comparatively amazing, very minimal lag and great 1080p 30fps performance. I will be very disappointed if anything happens to my ability to use Moonlight on the Pi. I spent a full week pulling my hair out a month ago getting Moonlight to finally work for me on the Pi and converted away from SteamLink. I am not going back...
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Yes they say the back end stuff needed even for you that's in GeForce Experience could go away. Might be able to use old GeForce Experiences, but they say it (Geforce Experience) has a whitelist of GPUs GameStream capable so when you get a new GPU in the future not in the whitelist cause not updated anymore, an old Geforce Experience will be no help then.

If/when that day comes hopefully the Sunshine backend for Moonlight will be up to snuff to use instead.
 
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staknhalo said:
Yes they say the back end stuff needed even for you that's in GeForce Experience could go away. Might be able to use old GeForce Experiences, but they say it (Geforce Experience) has a whitelist of GPUs GameStream capable so when you get a new GPU in the future not in the whitelist cause not updated anymore, an old Geforce Experience will be no help then.

If/when that day comes hopefully the Sunshine backend for Moonlight will be up to snuff to use instead.
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I found this FAQ that answers some of our questions:

https://github.com/moonlight-stream...IA-GameStream-End-Of-Service-Announcement-FAQ

In particular:

Even when the functionality is removed in GeForce Experience, it is likely that GameStream can still be used by running older versions of GeForce Experience (and blocking the automatic update mechanism). This might also require older GPU drivers, but historically older GeForce Experience versions and GameStream have been compatible with newer drivers without issue.
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The main problem I have is that moonlight-qt on the Pi I don't think is being maintained. It was an insane amount of work just getting moonlight working at all on the Pi and I had to try multiple different moonlight forks before I could find one that actually worked. As a result, I am not sure that the Sunshine back-end will help much for Pi users. Sticking with old GeForce drivers might be our only hope.
 
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AMD has AMD Link app for PC, TV, and phone.

7900 series GPUs can even encode the stream in AV1.

AMD Link - Your Personal Game Cloud

Connect up to Four Devices, Including non-AMD PCs4

AMD Link is a free app you can download that lets you turn your gaming PC into your own personal game cloud. Use it to connect your phone, tablet, TV, or Windows-based PC, and play your games from almost anywhere in the world.

Our Link Play feature has been revamped and expanded for this release, allowing up to four people to connect to your Radeon-powered PC and play local multiplayer games using invite codes. The users can either connect and play, chat, or even watch as spectators. AMD Link is now also accessible from the Microsoft Store and can be downloaded as a stand-alone app on non-AMD based PCs, allowing an even wider range of users and hardware to join your personal gaming cloud.

Unique to our AMD Link for Windows app, you also have access to your local games from the AMD Link interface. Combining that with AMD Link’s ability to be fully navigable with a gamepad, it allows for a quick and effortless way to launch and enjoy your local PC games on a big screen, without needing a keyboard and a mouse.

Turn AMD Link into a Customizable Controller

Use AMD Link to control your gaming experience. You can now program customizable hot keys to provide you with easy access to key functions and shortcuts at a touch of a button.
 
chameleoneel said:
AMD has AMD Link app for PC, TV, and phone.

7900 series GPUs can even encode the stream in AV1.

AMD Link - Your Personal Game Cloud

Connect up to Four Devices, Including non-AMD PCs4

AMD Link is a free app you can download that lets you turn your gaming PC into your own personal game cloud. Use it to connect your phone, tablet, TV, or Windows-based PC, and play your games from almost anywhere in the world.

Our Link Play feature has been revamped and expanded for this release, allowing up to four people to connect to your Radeon-powered PC and play local multiplayer games using invite codes. The users can either connect and play, chat, or even watch as spectators. AMD Link is now also accessible from the Microsoft Store and can be downloaded as a stand-alone app on non-AMD based PCs, allowing an even wider range of users and hardware to join your personal gaming cloud.

Unique to our AMD Link for Windows app, you also have access to your local games from the AMD Link interface. Combining that with AMD Link’s ability to be fully navigable with a gamepad, it allows for a quick and effortless way to launch and enjoy your local PC games on a big screen, without needing a keyboard and a mouse.

Turn AMD Link into a Customizable Controller

Use AMD Link to control your gaming experience. You can now program customizable hot keys to provide you with easy access to key functions and shortcuts at a touch of a button.
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And the general consensus is that it's surprising terrible, so much so that Steam Link actually runs better. So, I don't think it's a very good option at all, but to each their own. :unsure:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/xckg94/amd_link_on_windows_is_still_terrible/
 
staknhalo said:
Sunshine (the open source alternative for GFE to then stream to the Moonlight app) now supports HDR and Intel QuickSync encoding as of v0.18.0

https://docs.lizardbyte.dev/projects/sunshine/en/latest/about/usage.html#hdr-support

https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine/releases
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I tried this new version being hosted on my main rig, it's better than Steam Link streaming IMO - still noticeably less than GameStream but I was able to play a casual game of Rocket League just fine so it's good enough for single player story based third person shooters, which is mainly what I use it for

I didn't try 4K HDR10 yet I was just streaming to a separate 1080p TV with HEVC encoding but if it fucks up whenever I get around to trying it I'll report back
 
Gives you a bitter sweet taste and memories enough from stopping you to fall for another similar service and infrastructure in the future.
 
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