New Rig, 2nd Build

P

puphus

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
138
Greetings -- My last & first build was about 8 years ago. I'm looking to build an entirely new system. I would not say money is no object, but I'm willing to spend a little more cash to get best for my money. I'm willing to early adopt the i7, but would listen to reasons not to.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc.
Gaming, GIS, CAD, SPSS, Photoshop, Office apps, Internet, in that order of importance.


2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$2000, tax and shipping included.


3) Where do you live?
Glenwood Springs, Colorado


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
Everything, this is a new build in its entirety. That said, I am not in need of advice on peripherals such as a printer & scanner, or a mouse & keyboard. Also, I have a valid license for Vista Home Premium 64-bit that I plan to run. Gaming headphone options would be a bonus.


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Not reusing any parts.


6) Will you be overclocking?
I would prefer not to, but would like the option in the future.


7) What size monitor do you have or plan to have?
It seems like the decision is between a 22" and a 24" for most. I would prefer the 24", but am uncertain if my budget can accomplish that considering the beefier hardware needed to run higher resolutions.


8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I have no specific date set but am looking at building this winter. I could possibly hold off a bit longer if it would be better to wait for certain technology to be released.


9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
I've never run a RAID system and don't think it would necessarily benefit me. I might be interested in SLI/Crossfire if I could afford it at 24" monitor resolutions, not if I go with a 22".

Thanks for the advice. I'd be pleased to answer any additional questions.
 
You could possibly get everything, including the monitor, with a Core i7/X58 setup, but you definitely could with a Core 2 setup (with a P45, X38, or X48 motherboard for CrossFire support).

The question is: Which games will you be playing?
 
Thanks for the response. Was thinking the i7 simply because it will last further into the future and I will be able to more easily upgrade on that socket. I play Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Oblivion, Team Fortress 2, Medieval 2 Total War, Rome Total War. In the future I plan to play StarCraft 2 & Diablo III and might get into a MMO like AoC, WAR, LOTHRO, maybe not.
 
If you may use this PC for eight years like your last one, it might not be a bad bet to go with an i7 setup, however you may be forced into a 22" solution. If you built with a Q6600 or Q9xxx setup and DDR2 you probably could pick up a 4870x2 and a decent non-TN 24" with it.
 
It's old... P4 Willamette @ 2.8Ghz, Intel 850 mobo, 2Ghz PC-800 RDRAM, 6600GT, SB Audigy, 19" Samsung CRT. I'd prefer to upgrade more frequently, but all depends on my finances. I'm certainly not the type that needs to upgrade as soon as any new technology comes out, obviously...

I also have a stock Dell Studio 1535 that travels with me. Not a gaming/GIS machine.
 
Damn, for now, I would upgrade to a LGA 775 cpu build. The way I look at it, this will already give you a substantial boost over your existing build. Besides, why jump on a entry level Core i7 920 cpu now, when you can later upgrade to a faster Core i7 at a more reasonable cost. Let me whip up a solid LGA 775 Quad build with a 24". All for $2000 or even lower.
 
 
By the way, the games you just mentioned earlier, you don't need a Radeon HD 4870X2 video card. A Geforce GTX 260(216) will do fine for the type of games you listed. So..replace that Radeon 4870X2 video card for this EVGA Geforce GTX 260 (216) for $240 w/free shipping. Save $290 here. Since you don't need an O/S, that's $390 savings already. This should bring the overall total to $1,490.50.
 
HardwareGuru said:
By the way, the games you just mentioned earlier, you don't need a Radeon HD 4870X2 video card. A Geforce GTX 260(216) will do fine for the type of games you listed. So..replace that Radeon 4870X2 video card for this EVGA Geforce GTX 260 (216) for $240 w/free shipping. Save $290 here. Since you don't need an O/S, that's $390 savings already. This should bring the overall total to $1,490.50.
Click to expand...

Um... AoC will need 4870X2 on a 24". For sure.
 
HardwareGuru said:
By the way, the games you just mentioned earlier, you don't need a Radeon HD 4870X2 video card. A Geforce GTX 260(216) will do fine for the type of games you listed. So..replace that Radeon 4870X2 video card for this EVGA Geforce GTX 260 (216) for $240 w/free shipping. Save $290 here. Since you don't need an O/S, that's $390 savings already. This should bring the overall total to $1,490.50.
Click to expand...

If he has the money I say go for the 4870 X2! If he was going 22'' I would say to is not worth it, but why not. It's fun to play everything on max settings with high fps :cool:
 
Case + PSU? Not really. There is the Antec 300 + Antec NeoPower 500 for $90 but... nah a little too weak for that HD 4870X2. It's not so bad actually. Unless, buy the case and PSU separately.
 
If you want the Antec 900, get it at Amazon for $99 with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Nine-Hu...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1227486389&sr=8-1

Then take your choice of PSU: All are 80+ certified and good quality

Cooler master 650W - $80 - $30 MIR!: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171023

Cooler master 750W $99 - $40 MIR!: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171024

Corsair 650W - $109 - $30 MIR!: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

The first will be cheaper than the Antec Newegg combo before rebate. The second will be the same even before MIR. The third will only be cheaper after the rebate, but you get a nice PSU
 
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But the Antec 900 for $99?!?!?! Wow... am I the only one who doesn't think that case is worth that price?!? I didn't even pay that much for my P180 ($80 before $40MIR)! nor my Lian-Li's ($30 PC-65 NIB, $40 PC-7 used). I'd rather have the Cooler Master RC-690 from Amazon for $75 shipped, but even that is overpriced, since it used to be $20AR. Though, the 690 is a better case than the 900.
 
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Yeah, I like both the 690 and the Antec 900, but am actually leaning towards the HAF932. Love the looks. I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet, probably post-holidays. Gonna see what happens with pricing as the i7 becomes more prevalent and the newer C2s cool off...
 
It's fine, but you could get the Corsair TX750 for around the same price (or less, if you decide to look elsewhere).

Since you don't need that much power, choose one of the PSUs that InnocentNoobie recommended.
 
You are right about that. It seems that in the 650-750W range there are a lot of viable options around the $100 price point. Would there be any advantage to choosing a higher wattage PS at this time?
 
tiraides said:
Or, you could get the equally capable Corsair TX750 for the same price (or less, if you get it from either Buy.com or Amazon).

It's really a moot point, though; you have plenty of (good) options to choose from.
Click to expand...

check out the combo deal, dude. That seasonic is about $10 bucks less even if he bought that Corsair from Amazon and included the MIR in the price
 
On a different note, what if I were to go with an i7 920 on P6T? I mean, it seems a little short sighted to me to build an entirely new system on a platform that is phasing out. And is the 920 really entry level? I thought all three were enthusiast level and the i7s released in 2Q of '09 would be more mainstream, i.e., lower specs. The 920 is a similar price to the 9550, but the x58 mobo and DDR3 RAM would hit me in the wallet. Perhaps I could off set that with a less pricey 24" monitor and maybe not go with the 4870x2?
 
puphus said:
On a different note, what if I were to go with an i7 920 on P6T? I mean, it seems a little short sighted to me to build an entirely new system on a platform that is phasing out. And is the 920 really entry level? I thought all three were enthusiast level and the i7s released in 2Q of '09 would be more mainstream, i.e., lower specs. The 920 is a similar price to the 9550, but the x58 mobo and DDR3 RAM would hit me in the wallet. Perhaps I could off set that with a less pricey 24" monitor and maybe not go with the 4870x2?
Click to expand...

If your main priority is gaming, and you have a $2000 budget... I would say don't go with the i7 build. You said you were going to hold out for a few more weeks... So you could wait and see if prices drop enough... But it's not enough time for that amount of a price drop to come around.

You won't see a huge jump in performance with your games if you switch to the i7. You might even come close to breaking even if you skimp on your vid card to get an i7 build.

In my opinion an i7 build for gamers is approaching $3,000 territory. If your gaming on a 24 inch display, your GFX card should be your best component. Build around that, not your processor.
 
So, how would a C2 build like what HardwareGuru put together (thank you) stack up to an i7 build like this:

CPU: i7 920 @ $299.99 w/FS
MOBO: Asus P6T Deluxe @ $299.99
VIDEO: Asus 4870 1GB @ $289.99 w/o $20 MIR
RAM: (3x2GB) Wintec DDR3 1333 @ $215.99 w/ FS
HDD: WD 6400AAKS 640GB @ $70 w/FS
CASE & PSU (combo deal): Lian Li PC-K7B + SeaSonic S12 650w @ $190
OPTICAL DRIVE: Samsung 22x DVD+R @ $25 w/FS
MONITOR: Acer P243WAid 24" @ $340 w/FS

Additional shipping comes to $36
Totals up to $1731 on my doorstep.
 
puphus said:
So, how would a C2 build like what HardwareGuru put together (thank you) stack up to an i7 build like this:
Click to expand...

Well I want to say the same thing I just said, but I'll let someone else comment on it.. lol :p

But: Nice case and PSU t here. I don't know about that ram though... Also, I would much rather have the Benq display.

Anyways, I'll say it again. That 4870 is sufficient but not going to really drive that resolution on your 24'' display like you would hope. I think you will be dissapointed.

If you really want an i7 build then wait until you can get the better GFX card and the i7.
 
I agree with InnocentNoobie: With the priority on gaming, you would be better off with the HD4870X2 over the Core i7.
 
I know what you mean and agree when you say that I should build a gaming rig around the video card. That said, I can't help thinking that if I go with the C2, in one year's time I'll want to upgrade meaning new CPU, Mobo, RAM, and perhaps the video card. Whereas if I go with i7, in a year's time I'm looking at just a video card upgrade. Am I nuts?

That Benq monitor is sweet, and only a $120 difference. I could probably spring for it. What flaws do you see with the RAM? Other slightly more expensive options are:

G skill @ $280
OCZ @ $251 w/o $30 MIR

Those are only a $35 - $65 difference. Is there much of a difference between them and the Wintec outside of price and fancy stick-on heatsinks?
 
Somewhat. Though a Core i7 setup is better than a Core 2 setup, the kicker is that it's no more than 10-15% better -- coming from a very old build, you probably couldn't tell the difference. Plus, a lot of games (especially at the resolution you're using) are largely GPU-driven.

Wintec isn't a well-known brand around here -- we don't really know much about its warranty or its customer service. OCZ, IIRC, offers a limited lifetime warranty on its RAM and has a pretty competent CS departement.
 
tiraides said:
Somewhat. Though a Core i7 setup is better than a Core 2 setup, the kicker is that it's no more than 10-15% better -- coming from a very old build, you probably couldn't tell the difference. Plus, a lot of games (especially at the resolution you're using) are largely GPU-driven.

Wintec isn't a well-known brand around here -- we don't really know much about its warranty or its customer service. OCZ, IIRC, offers a limited lifetime warranty on its RAM and has a pretty competent CS departement.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

With the cash you're dishing out for this system, go with name brand parts. I don't know anything about Wintec. They don't even post the timings on that ram.

No matter what you buy today, in a year's time your system will be out-dated. There is no such thing as future-proofing.

If your focus wasn't on gaming, then yah maybe you could swing for the i7... But seriously. That i7 system will be chugging out less FPS at lower quality and on a worse display with ram that will probably die on you, while HWGuru's build will be kicking ass all day long for a while.
 
Damn, just the CPU, RAM and MOBO is over $800.00. Here's my critique about it. Although you have a Core i7 build. Here is where my build shines over what you listed:

Video Card - I have a Visiontek Radeon HD 4870x2 over your Asus Radeon HD 4870 1gig. Crank up the eye candy baby!
Heatsink/Bracket - No Heatsink/Bracket included in your build.
Lcd Monitor - I have the BenQ 24" Non TN display that does not suffer from poor view angles from your cheap Acer 24" TN display that is only a 6bit panel not a true 8bit panel like the BenQ. TN panel suffer from crushed blacks when it comes to dark scenes in games and in movies. BenQ monitor has more features and connectivity. Games, Photos and Movies will look better on this 8 bit panel as oppose to that 6bit TN monitor. We're talkin nice eye candy paired with the Radeon HD 4870X2. Also, you mention photoshop, an 8bit panel in the BenQ will be more ideal when editing photos than a 6bit TN panel in the Acer. The reason is color shifting due to poor view angles in a 6bit panel. Also, 8 bit deliver the full 16.7 million colors. 6 bit does not. Besides, how often do you upgrade a monitor as oppose to a computer?

The Core 2 Quad 9550 is not a bottleneck to the Radeon HD4870X2. You still can O/C also for even added performance. You will feel sick later when newer Core i7 cpus come out that's faster and at the same price as that Core i7 920. It's like people who bought the Core 2 E6400/E6600 Dual Core cpus when it first came out. Their cpus are blown by the 45nm Dual and Quad core cpus. Also, you have only a single core P4 cpu, you are now jumping onto a Quad Core cpu and you skip a dual core cpus. Most programs and games don’t even utilize a multi core cpu right now. So, you shouldn’t worry about that. Besides, with this upgrade, I highly doubt you will say: “Damn, this Q9550 and 4870X2 build is not much faster than my P4 2.8ghz and 6600GT video card.”

*The main reason why people jump on a Core i7 is the hype. Or, bragging rights to say that you got the new Core i7.

BTW, I like your Case/PSU combo though.
 
Definitely good food for thought. I sure do appreciate everyone's quality input. I suppose it comes down to wanting to get the best for my money, where "best" is defined as high quality performance through time. Bragging rights or e-penis boasts mean nothing to me. You only have to look as far as my current build to see that. Without a doubt, I imagine I'll see a major difference between any modern system and my current set-up. I'm well aware of the fact that the pace of development certainly does make future proofing difficult if not impossible. But, that does not always mean that solid decisions can't be made to increase the longevity of a system. Perhaps it would be best to wait until say Jan. or Feb. to see how things shake out? Perhaps not, and I'll only be prolonging my current abysmal situation.

I agree that a solid investment in high quality components that are not replaced often, such as the monitor, is a wise choice. I imagine I will go with the Benq or something else like it when the time comes. Money spent on an early adopted i7 setup now would perhaps better be spent on the monitor and video card. Maybe this strengthens the argument for waiting a bit?
 
puphus said:
I'm well aware of the fact that the pace of development certainly does make future proofing difficult if not impossible. But, that does not always mean that solid decisions can't be made to increase the longevity of a system.QUOTE]

What I (and others too) mean when we say you can't future-proof a system is this: You can't successfully build with the future in mind.

So it is better to build a system that you are happy with now, and as technology advances, you can adopt a new system when you feel you can't wait to upgrade anymore.

For example:

If you go with the i7 build, you sacrifice a lot of performance now...

But in the future you will have the choice to upgrade your GFX card at an additional cost...

That system in the future is still going to suck, except for the video card.

You will end up losing a lot of ground now, and gaining a small amount in the future.

In other words: If you go with HWGuru's build over the i7 build you would:
1. Have better monitor/peripheral components
2. Better system until your next upgrade
3. Save some money
4. Use that money in the future to buy a better rig

Hmmm... I'm getting too into this.

Good luck with your build no matter what you do!
Click to expand...
 
OK, so if I meld the builds into the below, would I be better off? Or maybe I should save the $300 or so and roll with the original C2 system...

CPU: i7 920 @ $299.99 w/FS
MOBO: Asus P6T Deluxe @ $299.99
Video - Visiontek Radeon HD 4870X2 for $530 w/free shipping
RAM: OCZ (3x2GB) DDR3 1333 @ $251 w/o $30 MIR
HDD: WD 6400AAKS 640GB @ $70 w/FS
CASE & PSU (combo deal): Lian Li PC-K7B + SeaSonic S12 650w @ $190
OPTICAL DRIVE: Samsung 22x DVD+R @ $25 w/FS
LCD Monitor - BenQ FP241VW 24” for $450 with Promo Code at BenQ website.

Sums to approximately $2116.
 
puphus said:
OK, so if I meld the builds into the below, would I be better off? Or maybe I should save the $300 or so and roll with the original C2 system...

CPU: i7 920 @ $299.99 w/FS
MOBO: Asus P6T Deluxe @ $299.99
Video - Visiontek Radeon HD 4870X2 for $530 w/free shipping
RAM: OCZ (3x2GB) DDR3 1333 @ $251 w/o $30 MIR
HDD: WD 6400AAKS 640GB @ $70 w/FS
CASE & PSU (combo deal): Lian Li PC-K7B + SeaSonic S12 650w @ $190
OPTICAL DRIVE: Samsung 22x DVD+R @ $25 w/FS
LCD Monitor - BenQ FP241VW 24” for $450 with Promo Code at BenQ website.

Sums to approximately $2116.
Click to expand...

Now that is an awesome rig. If you have that kind of money to build a system like this, and then upgrade in 2-3 years and build an equally awesome system then, then I'd say go for it. That is a kickass rig.

But really, you are paying a lot of money for a very marginal performance benefit because you are using this for gaming. As tiraides said, you will only see 10-15% increase in games.

That 4870 X2 and that Benq display are what matters for your gaming experience (and BTW, do you have a nice speaker or headphone setup? that is a good investment).

So in conclusion: I don't know if you will be better off. That is certainly a better system. But it is not that much better, in my opinion. I think most people that spend that kind of money to get the latest and greatest of everything are more or less always going to be the kind that: 1. have a whole lot of money to dispose of 2. get off on this kind of hardware thing
 
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