New Build - Photoshop CS6 and LR4/5 NO GAMES

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vidoprof

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
468
Hello Hardforum:..

I posted a thread about a build back in July, but have been traveling and never got around to getting anything. NOW I have sold my current rig and need something in the next WEEK or TWO at the latest.

Here is what I posted last time:

Current build:
Q9300 @ 2.5, Silencer 750 Black PS (4yrs old), 8Gb G Skill Ram 4x2gb, ATI Radeon 2600 PRO, Antec Gigabyte DS3P MB,


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Photoshop CS6, Lightroom 4/5 and MAYBE LIGHT video work (not into it yet, but may start)
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$1200.00. Tax and shipping need to be included in the budget.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
US, Florida

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, mobo, RAM(16-32 gigs), GPU (IF I can't reuse mine), Case, SSD HDDs (OS and scratch disk using same drive 256GB,

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
I have a keyboard and mouse, and Monitors (27" and 24").
I also have (2) 4TB HDs that are going to be used for my photos for my working files(Raid 1 probably).
I have a DROBO unit with 6TB of data backup that backs up the Raid 1 drive
(2) 4TB external drives that get swapped offsite for additional data backup redundancy that will backup the DROBO.
(1) Rocketfish USB 3.0 PCI Express Card (possibly if needed)
(1) SB Audigy
(1) ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO (if possible)
(1) DVD Burner
(1) External USB 3.0 card reader for downloading pictures


6) Will you be overclocking?
IF it's worth it to do so and a very MILD OC if that.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
(1) LG 27" 1920x1080.
(1) LG 24" 1920x1200

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP or as soon as I can gather all the info on what to buy, unless there is a compelling reason to wait a month or so.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I would love the fastest (within budget) specs possible, so Sata 6.0Gb/s, Raid 1 for data, USB 3.0, Would love to record podcasts for later viewing when they are LIVE online (like Photoshop User TV, Creative Live etc).

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Not activated yet but just purchased

Would it make sense to KEEP the Power Supply and buy a cheaper one for my old build (to sell) or just buy a newer one for the newer build?

Thanks in advance for all the help.
 
vidoprof said:
(1) SB Audigy
Click to expand...
Is that card PCI or PCI-E?
vidoprof said:
(1) ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO (if possible)
Click to expand...
Not worth reusing at all. Especially considering that Nvidia cards will get you higher performance in Photoshop.
vidoprof said:
(1) DVD Burner
Click to expand...
Is that DVD burner SATA or IDE?

vidoprof said:
Would it make sense to KEEP the Power Supply and buy a cheaper one for my old build (to sell) or just buy a newer one for the newer build?
Click to expand...
Newer one for the newer build.
 
Dangman:

No clue how to tell if the SB is PCI-E.. Although I am probably ok with onboard audio (how much better is a sound card anyway?)..

If I can get higher performance in Photoshop and Possibly Premiere with a new Video card I am ok with spending the extra $100- $150 there. (remember NO gaming) :)

DVD Burner is SATA.

So with that said. Any recommendations on a build? :)

Do I go with an I5 processor instead of the 4770(k) and save a little bit?


Thanks
Ryan G
 
Tiraides is unfortunately busy at the moment so I'll post up an updated version of Tiraides' build (gonna assume that the card reader and the OS you bought are not part of that $1200 budget:
$200 - Intel Core i5-4570
$95 - MSI Z87-G41 PC MATE Intel Z87 ATX Motherboard
$268 - 4 x Crucial Ballistix BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$100 - EVGA GeForce GTX 650 1GB video card
$164 - Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD (OS disk)
$90 - Samsung 840 120GB SSD (scratch disk)
$85 - Seasonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W Modular PSU
$43 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
=====
$1041 Shipped

Key Changes:
- You're now maxed out at 32GB of RAM
- That motherboard is capable of RAID and is of higher quality/reliability than the raid capable mobo I recommended a while back.
- Upgraded the PSU to a more higher quality and modular PSU.

You still have quite a bit of room in your budget left. Only go for the Core i7 4770 if you are going to be very serious about video editing. Otherwise, I recommend spending that remaining money on better cases than the NZXT Source 210 Elite:
$60 - Corsair Carbide Series 200R ATX Case
$70 - Corsair Carbide Series 300R ATX Case
$85 - Fractal Design Define R4 with Window Titanium Grey ATX Case
$90 - Fractal Design Define R4 with Window Black Pearl ATX Case
$95 - Fractal Design Define R4 Arctic White ATX Case
$100 - Fractal Design Define R4 with Window Arctic White ATX Case
$110 - Antec P280 ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Carbide Series 400R ATX Case
$110 - Antec 1100 ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li PC-7HX Black Aluminum ATX Case
$122 - Corsair Carbide Series 500R ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Gunmetal Black ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Arctic White ATX Case
$140 - Corsair Obsidian Series 550D ATX Case
$144 - Silverstone RV03B-W ATX case
$144 - Silverstone RV03B-WA ATX case
$150 - Corsair Graphite Series 600TM ATX Case
$170 - Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$168 - Silverstone TJ04B-EW ATX Case
$167 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case
$230 - Silverstone FT02B-USB3.0 ATX Case
$250 - Silverstone FT02S-W-USB3.0 ATX Case
 
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Sorry for the delay. I was looking for a few deals... and I think I found them....

Here are my recommendations:

$190 - Intel Core i5-4570 (includes $10 discount promo code EMCWXXT25, ends 10/9)
$145 - Asus Z87-PLUS ATX motherboard
$254 - Crucial Ballistix Sport 4x8GB DDR3 1600 RAM kit
$110 - Gigabyte GTX 650 1GB video card
$159 - Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
$85 - Samsung 840 Series 120GB SSD
$80 - XFX PRO650W 650 watt power supply
$60 - Cooler Master HAF 912 RC-912-KKN4 ATX mid-tower case
=====
$1083 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

You can reuse your card reader, hard drives, and DVD burner. You won't need the USB 3.0 expansion card.

I went with the Asus Z87-PLUS motherboard and the Cooler Master HAF 912 case so you could have room for additional hard drives in the future. The HAF 912 can support up to four 2.5 inch drives (read: SSDs) without the need for an adapter. (There is a cheaper model, RC-912-KKN1, that comes with no front-mounted USB 3.0 ports. The one that I chose, RC-912-KKN4, has one front port.)

As for the RAM, let's just say that I was really lucky. GET IT NOW!

I added the 120GB Samsung 840 SSD to give you a dedicated swap disk. Photoshop generally performs better if you have a separate swap disk. You can also use it to save temporary files (as the SSD will read those faster than the HDDs). The only difference between my choices (in SSDs) and Dangman's is the location: The New York-based photography stores Adorama and B&H are selling the Samsung SSDs a bit cheaper than NewEgg or Amazon.

I chose the GTX 650 as a "bare minimum" card that's better than both the i5-4570's IGP and your HD 2600 PRO. If you're serious about Premiere, you may want to consider one of the newer GTX 7xx cards (which are considerably more expensive).

If you want either the i7-4770 or the i7-4770K for Premiere, remember that you'll spend at least $100 more for the processor (outside of a really good NewEgg combo deal).
 
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Well shit.

Yeah definitely go with Tiraides' build. It's better than mine.
 
Personally, I'd go with a 4770 and 16gb than an i5 and 32gb.
 
Zepher said:
Personally, I'd go with a 4770 and 16gb than an i5 and 32gb.
Click to expand...
Why? He's really not doing anything that would require the 4770. He hasn't really said he's actually serious about the video editing work. Not to to mention that RAM prices have been going up so now would be a good time to buy as much RAM within reason.

Then again, he has the budget to do both the 4770 and 32GB of RAM if he wishes to do so.
 
Well, by the time the tools he is using requires the use of 32gb of ram, then the i5 will be too slow.
I work with premiere pro and photoshop cs6 and 16gb is plenty at the moment.
 
Zepher said:
Well, by the time the tools he is using requires the use of 32gb of ram, then the i5 will be too slow.
I work with premiere pro and photoshop cs6 and 16gb is plenty at the moment.
Click to expand...

I keep reading/hearing otherwise.
 
Thank you ALL so MUCH for the info. I WILL be (I have the budget) doing the 32gb RAM.. Why not?

A couple questions:

1. Would the video card upgrade OR the CPU be a better option if I am going to be doing some MODERATE (NOT SERIOUS video).. I don't do ANY at the moment, but might start in the near future?

2. HOLY CASES.. jeezzz... Umm. I really just need a case that will fit (2) SSD's, and MAX 3 HDD's, but I do want RAID if possible. At least one USB 3.0, on the front and maybe an eSata on the front (not really necessary though). So does Tirades case meet that? I could care less what it looks like, more functional (no one but me will see it)

3. Why NOT the 840 PRO SSD?

4. Does that MB overclock? (not sure I will at the moment, but good to know)..

Thanks SO much again.

Ryan G
 
1) CPU
2) Yes.
3) Budget and slightly diminishing returns.
4) Yes. Though you will need to buy a 3rd party HSF like this:
$33 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo HSF
 
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vidoprof said:
1. Would the video card upgrade OR the CPU be a better option if I am going to be doing some MODERATE (NOT SERIOUS video).. I don't do ANY at the moment, but might start in the near future?
Click to expand...

It depends on whether you use GPU acceleration. If so, you'll want to upgrade the video card first (Adobe CS6 and CC support both Nvidia and AMD cards); if not, upgrade the video card.

If you want to upgrade now (using my current build as reference), you only have enough for one or the other. I haven't really played with Adobe's GPU acceleration myself, so I can't say which is better.

vidoprof said:
2. HOLY CASES.. jeezzz... Umm. I really just need a case that will fit (2) SSD's, and MAX 3 HDD's, but I do want RAID if possible. At least one USB 3.0, on the front and maybe an eSata on the front (not really necessary though). So does Tirades case meet that? I could care less what it looks like, more functional (no one but me will see it)
Click to expand...

The HAF 912 KKN4 model has one USB 3.0 port; the KKN1 model has none. Neither case has eSATA.

Both Dangman's motherboard choice in the MSI Z87-G41 and my choice in the Asus Z87 PLUS support RAID.

vidoprof said:
3. Why NOT the 840 PRO SSD?
Click to expand...

Cost and versatility. Two good SSDs are better for Photoshop and Lightroom than one top-tier SSD.

vidoprof said:
4. Does that MB overclock? (not sure I will at the moment, but good to know).
Click to expand...

Both motherboards can overclock, but you'll need some third-party cooling and a K processor to take advantage of that. And yes, the K processors cost more than the non-K processors.
 
... But no front USB 3.0 ports. (You'll have a couple of USB 3.0 ports in the back, in the I/O panel.)

Can you accept that?
 
It shows ports on the front no?

Also.. What would be the next graphics card I would want to get if I DO decide to upgrade that NOW... And go slightly out of budget to future proof the build some more.

Does either or BOTH MBs support both the i5 and the 4770k? Why wouldn't I go with the cheaper one then?

Thanks again.

Ryan G
 
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vidoprof said:
It shows ports on the front no?
Click to expand...

Both models of the HAF 912 case have two USB ports in front. The KKN1 model, which TD is selling for $47, has two USB 2.0 ports. The KKN4 model that I recommended has one USB 2.0 port and one USB 3.0 port.

vidoprof said:
Also.. What would be the next graphics card I would want to get if I DO decide to upgrade that NOW... And go slightly out of budget to future proof the build some more.
Click to expand...

I recommend either the Nvidia GeForce GTX 760 or the AMD Radeon HD 7950. If you're really serious about Premiere Pro, you need to look at a workstation graphics card (which is considerably more expensive an a consumer video card with similar specifications).

vidoprof said:
Does either or BOTH MBs support both the i5 and the 4770k? for overclocking? Why wouldn't I go with the cheaper one then?
Click to expand...

Yes, both the MSI Z87-G41 and the Asus Z87-PLUS support all Socket 1150 processors (read: the i5-4570 and the i7-4770K) and they can overclock any K series processor (namely, the i5-4670K and the i7-4770K). But we usually don't recommend them for overclocking. (You could try to go beyond, say, 4.2GHz, but it's a crapshoot to determine whether or not the board could maintain it.) In that case, I usually suggest something along the lines of the MSI Z87-GD65, which costs around $180, and the Corsair H80i, which is another $80 or so down the drain.

To answer your earlier question, you go with the Z87-G41 if you're only concerned about covering your major needs (RAID, USB 3.0). The Asus Z87-PLUS adds two SATA ports to the equation, which may or may not be worth the extra $30. (All of the SATA ports on the Z87 boards are SATA 6Gb/s.)
 
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I just have an off topic question about the RAM.

Will that RAM work with an Older Q9300 with a Gigabyte GA EP35 - DS3P MB?

Ryan G
 
Just read that.. I should have google'd it first.. sorry..

Any advice on why to get the board you recommended vs the cheaper one?

Also Can both the board you recommended and the one that Dangman recommended support EITHER the I5 4670 OR the i7 4770k? OR do I need a different board for the 4770k? Debating if I want to spend the extra $100ish on the 4770k to be better off if I start doing video.. it might be worth the $100 to me
 
vidoprof said:
Any advice on why to get the board you recommended vs the cheaper one?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to sway you. If you believe that the MSI Z87-G41 is better for your needs, then go for it. (If you really wanted to overclock, I wouldn't have recommended my earlier choices.)

vidoprof said:
Also Can both the board you recommended and the one that Dangman recommended support EITHER the I5 4670 OR the i7 4770k? OR do I need a different board for the 4770k?
Click to expand...

ALL Intel Z87 boards can support ALL Socket/LGA 1150 processors.

vidoprof said:
Debating if I want to spend the extra $100ish on the 4770k to be better off if I start doing video.. it might be worth the $100 to me
Click to expand...

Get the i7-4770K. But don't forget the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO that Dangman recommended earlier.
 
Ok I am getting the 4770k and 212 EVO.

Is the SB Audigy (still don't know if it's PCI or PCI-E) better than onboard sound?

What would be the next step up for video cards?

Thanks. Pulling the trigger on RAM NOW, then the rest when I get the rest of the info.

Ryan G
 
BTW.. Is this the same case as you posted at Newegg?

Amazon doesn't say KKN4 on it though...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BCXF6O4?tag=intercept-kb-20

Also it looks like in all the pictures there are two ports (plus audio ones).. one is the USB 3.0 and what is the other? Or are they just stock pics of a different model?

Ryan G
 
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vidoprof said:
Is the SB Audigy (still don't know if it's PCI or PCI-E) better than onboard sound?
Click to expand...

Try onboard sound first. The Sound Blaster Audigy cards use PCI.

vidoprof said:
What would be the next step up for video cards?
Click to expand...

How serious are you considering using Premiere? It works best with workstation graphics cards.

vidoprof said:
BTW.. Is this the same case as you posted at Newegg?

Amazon doesn't say KKN4 on it though...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BCXF6O4?tag=intercept-kb-20

Also it looks like in all the pictures there are two ports (plus audio ones).. one is the USB 3.0 and what is the other? Or are they just stock pics of a different model?
Click to expand...

Amazon never identified it as either the KKN1 or the KKN4, even when I searched for specific models. Both Amazon and NewEgg sell the HAF 912 for $55 shipped.

The safest assumption I can make is that Amazon is selling the KKN1 model.
 
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50/50.. I mean right now i do NO video work.. and I honestly don't have a clue as to how much I would be doing AT ALL..

I was thinking if I could drop another $50 and get a much better card I am all game.. if not no biggie I will deal with what you listed.. I don't want to drop another $200 though.


In the pics on both Newegg and Amazon the front bezel has (2) what look like USB 3.0 ports + audio ports.. I know it SAYS (1) USB 3.0 port but why is the picture there AND on CoolMaster's site showing (2) ports of some kind? Do I need to buy additional fans?


Last thing.. Everywhere I see the 4770k for $339. Anywhere cheaper?
 
I like the fact that premiere will use all cores and threads at near 100% when exporting a file
premiere-test.jpg
 
That's good to know about Premiere. So it's worth the extra $140 for the 4770k IMO for that..
 
vidoprof said:
50/50.. I mean right now i do NO video work.. and I honestly don't have a clue as to how much I would be doing AT ALL..

I was thinking if I could drop another $50 and get a much better card I am all game.. if not no biggie I will deal with what you listed.. I don't want to drop another $200 though.
Click to expand...

Take a time-out and conduct some research on your own about Premiere Pro and its performance using both the CPU and the GPU. Zepher provided some good input, but it may be better if you find out the results for yourself.

vidoprof said:
In the pics on both Newegg and Amazon the front bezel has (2) what look like USB 3.0 ports + audio ports.. I know it SAYS (1) USB 3.0 port but why is the picture there AND on CoolMaster's site showing (2) ports of some kind? Do I need to buy additional fans?
Click to expand...

Look at NewEgg for the differences. NewEgg sells two different models of the HAF 912 the KKN1 and the KKN4.

The Cooler Master website offers the HAF 912 (KKN1) and the HAF 912 Advanced, which isn't sold in the U.S.

The HAF 912, regardless of the model, comes with one front 120mm fan and one rear 120mm fan. (The KKN4 model comes with a front LED fan.) If you want additional fans, get a 200mm fan for the top of the case.

vidoprof said:
Last thing.. Everywhere I see the 4770k for $339. Anywhere cheaper?
Click to expand...

NewEgg, assuming you find a suitable combo deal.
 
RAM is ordered.. Thank you.

I looked into the Video (a lot of people asking the same thing).. and apparently it's WAY more CPU intensive with Adobe products, SOO.. They recommended the 3970, BUT that just isn't really necessary now (since those people are doing video renderings ALL DAY).

The 4770K it is with a decent overclock.

So should I look into more fans, or just buy a case that has them already if I am buying the separate anyway?


Lastly, Going to wait and get the cheaper GPU and IF I decide to go the more video intense route I can upgrade that IF necessary... So thank you for all the help there.
 
vidoprof said:
So should I look into more fans, or just buy a case that has them already if I am buying the separate anyway?
Click to expand...
Depends on the case and your planned cooling setup. Just because the case comes with a lot of fans does not automatically mean it'll cool well or will be worth the money. Alternatively, adding more fans to a system may not be cost-effective depending on its particular cooling requirements.
 
I like the cooling and layout of the haf-932. My brother went with the next model up, haf-942 or haf-x, can't remember the name.
The higher model has 2 hot swap bays in front.

This is mine,
3770k.jpg
 
Can you tell me what you mean by hot swap bays? Like as in HDD are hot swappable?

That would be a great addition (if possible) if one of my data HDD goes down I can just plugin the other drive and it start the replication process over again from the other drive.

Or is the hot swap you are referring to NOT THIS?

I like the case you have there, but IF indeed the hot swap bays are how I imagine it (remove one HDD and replace it and it starts the replication) then I would def like that addition.

Ryan G
 
Hot swap is a the ability to pull a drive out while the machine is running.
I added one to mine so I can pop in a drive in the front of the machine to copy to and from that drive at sata speeds.
The hot swap bays in my brothers case are 2.5" though, mainly for SSD's or laptop size drives.
The one in my machine is a 3.5" hot swap bay for a standard drive.

You are thinking of raid with a hot swap cage, and they do have this option, you just need a suitable raid controller and a hot swap cage.

Here is a cage,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121405

I don't know what controller to recommend as I have never used raid.
 
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Gotcha... thanks a ton.

So NOW that leads me to another question. WITH the new option.

Anyone have recommendations on a Case and potentially a Cage like the above (if needed) for the RAID setup to copy my main 2 HDDs so they are hot swappable?

Does the onboard controller have the ability for the hot swap part?

SO many decisions, so THANK YOU to everyone for the help.

Ryan G
 
Well first and foremost: Are you getting the 4770 or not? If you're getting the 4770, that means you won't be able to afford a case with hot-swap bays. Yes you need hot-swap bays in order to do hot-swapping well.

And yes onboard RAID controllers do support hot-swap in AHCI or RAID mode.
 
I have decided that even if I do video I will deal with whatever happens and the 20% isn't a big enough deal to me.. SO I am going with the i5 processor (3960 is it?) and overclocking it a little bit.

RAID and Hot Swap is way more important to me at this point.

With everything I am getting over the old Q9300 (SSD's, faster processor, 32GB Ram) it will FLY compared to what I am used to anyway.

So thanks AGAIN for all the help.

Ryan G
 
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