Need help building a pro workstation for an architect

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bpmurrGT

[H]ard|Gawd
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Feb 3, 2007
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My girlfriend’s brother is an architect and needs a new workstation for a job he is starting. I’ve only built general purpose, gaming, and HTPC solutions for friends and family. I need some help from the community on my first stab at a professional workstation. I really don’t know what to expect for costs or what parts to use. I was thinking about $3k but maybe I’m wrong. I just want to make sure he gets the best bang for the buck. Here is the software he will be is using.

Autodesk Revit
Autodesk AutoCad
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
Autodesk 3D MAX (or VIZ)

What type of system would you all recommend? I’d like to put something together for him that would last for at least three years. Thank everyone! :)

If you feel that it might be better for him to go with one of the big boys what setup would you recommend for him? I'm not too proud to leave this one to Dell or HP.
 
I'd go with a Dell for something like that if I were him.
 
I have a few Dell 690's as well as custom overclocked enthusiast rigs.Support will kill you. I'd recommend the Dell 690 with an on-site service contract. Plus the rendering will likely have fewer problems with the quadro cards than with 8800 cards.
 
Thanks guys, I had a feeling the Dell route would be better. How would you spec out a 690? What should I be looking for in a workstation?
 
Dell Precision 690, HP xw8400 and MacPro make nice workstations.

Just spec what your budget will allow, but just get the least amount of RAM possible, and buy more RAM third party. Same with extra HDDs
 
LesterOfPuppets2 said:
Dell Precision 690, HP xw8400 and MacPro make nice workstations.

Just spec what your budget will allow, but just get the least amount of RAM possible, and buy more RAM third party. Same with extra HDDs
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the info. I have a couple of other questions.

Dual or Quad Core?

4GB of Ram third party?

Vista Biz 64bit (I know Vista sucks but I want him to use the additional ram)?

Hard Drive Size and Speed? Is a 7,200 RPM drive good enough or go Raptor?
 
bpmurrGT said:
Thanks again for the info. I have a couple of other questions.

Dual or Quad Core?

4GB of Ram third party?

Vista Biz 64bit (I know Vista sucks but I want him to use the additional ram)?

Hard Drive Size and Speed? Is a 7,200 RPM drive good enough or go Raptor?
Click to expand...

You'll want to go quad core for those applications. 4GB of RAM and I'd go with third-party modules instead of ordering them with the system from Dell. You'll usually save by doing so. Check the cost and if it isn't too bad by all means get the system with the full 4GB installed from the factory.

There is nothing wrong with using Vista.

The hard drive size is key. You want something that's 7200rpm. The 10,000rpm drives aren't going to be worth it for the cost. Remember most of the cost will be taken up by the processor and video cards. So you'll want to cut corners elsewhere. If he wants 10,000rpm drives later then he can buy them at a later date. The important things are the core components like video card, RAM and CPU.

I'd go with this: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bwcw7zz&s=bsd

Customize that.
 
Dan_D said:
You'll want to go quad core for those applications. 4GB of RAM and I'd go with third-party modules instead of ordering them with the system from Dell. You'll usually save by doing so. Check the cost and if it isn't too bad by all means get the system with the full 4GB installed from the factory.

There is nothing wrong with using Vista.

The hard drive size is key. You want something that's 7200rpm. The 10,000rpm drives aren't going to be worth it for the cost. Remember most of the cost will be taken up by the processor and video cards. So you'll want to cut corners elsewhere. If he wants 10,000rpm drives later then he can buy them at a later date. The important things are the core components like video card, RAM and CPU.

I'd go with this: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bwcw7zz&s=bsd

Customize that.
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Thanks, I'm not up to speed on the Quadro line. What card would be a good buy?
 
Dan_D said:
The highest end model that he can afford.
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Is there a point where a 8x00 series would do better at a given price point? I'm trying to keep him around $2,500.00 if possible including monitor.
 
bpmurrGT said:
Is there a point where a 8x00 series would do better at a given price point. I'm trying to keep him around $2,500.00 if possible including monitor.
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If he can't afford a Quadro FX 4600 or Quadro FX 5600 then yes, an 8800GTX or Ultra could potentially be soft modded in thier place.
 
Wow, they really do seem to take advantage of the business users with the pricing. Over $400 for a Q6600? Right now what I'm pricing out is close to $3600 so I'm going to have to trim it down it seems.
 
bpmurrGT said:
Wow, they really do seem to take advantage of the business users with the pricing. Over $400 for a Q6600? Right now what I'm pricing out is close to $3600 so I'm going to have to trim it down it seems.
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Well you could also go with the cheapest processor and upgrade that as well.
 
The change from 2007 Architectural Desktop to Autocad Architecture 2008 (same product, updated and renamed) allowed use of standard GeForce, etc. type cards to reach near Quadro/FireGL levels of performance. Not sure if Autodesk did that for other the products on your list.
 
dell charges premium for all the stuff but if you don't want to support his rig then that's the way to go. A good setup would be

intel quad core like q6600
4gb+ ram
64bit os, vista or xp (vista is bit better for 64bit)
raid 0 with 2-3 fast hdds for scratch
fast os drive
large hdd for data storage
nvidia quadro series card
 
I'd suggest going with an OEM. Deff. go with SAS for the hdds, maybe one or two Xeons, 4-8GB+ RAM. You gotta realize, this ain't a consumers box, this is a professional CAD system.
 
AMD_RULES said:
I'd suggest going with an OEM. Deff. go with SAS for the hdds, maybe one or two Xeons, 4-8GB+ RAM. You gotta realize, this ain't a consumers box, this is a professional CAD system.
Click to expand...

Problem is that he's trying to do it for less than $3,000.
 
You could always get a Dell 690 fro their outlet or Ebay Dell 690. I've purchased about a dozen Dells with next day service contracts from the outlet or ebay (Including 2/3 of the 690s). About $3k right now gets you a 3GHz Xeon and a Quadro 4500. You can always offer to do the receiving and set up (and any upgrades) but have service from Dell.

That's what I do in my business and it seems to give me the best combination of cost-service-hassle reduction.
 
Dan_D said:
Problem is that he's trying to do it for less than $3,000.
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Well I'm only doing $3k because his boss won't give him a solid dollar figure. What should a professional CAD station run that will have a three year life span?
 
Ok, I have a budget of $3600 to work with. That's for the PC and any memory or hard drives I want to add to the unit after purchase.
 
well tell him he has a choice between so so system with oem support(buy from dell or other vendor) or pretty nice system with no support (custom build)
 
bpmurrGT said:
Ok, I have a budget of $3600 to work with. That's for the PC and any memory or hard drives I want to add to the unit after purchase.
Click to expand...

You really should look at refurbished Dell workstations. They have a couple of scratches or dents but are deeply discounted. Whatever landed them in the refurbishment status would have had to have been replaced but Dell can't sell it as new anymore. So I wouldn't worry about reliability or anything.

I'd gor for that.
 
bpmurrGT said:
My girlfriend’s brother is an architect and needs a new workstation for a job he is starting. I’ve only built general purpose, gaming, and HTPC solutions for friends and family. I need some help from the community on my first stab at a professional workstation. I really don’t know what to expect for costs or what parts to use. I was thinking about $3k but maybe I’m wrong. I just want to make sure he gets the best bang for the buck. Here is the software he will be is using.

Autodesk Revit
Autodesk AutoCad
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
Autodesk 3D MAX (or VIZ)

What type of system would you all recommend? I’d like to put something together for him that would last for at least three years. Thank everyone! :)

If you feel that it might be better for him to go with one of the big boys what setup would you recommend for him? I'm not too proud to leave this one to Dell or HP.
Click to expand...
I just built one for SolidWorks, Dual Quad 2.5 12m HarperTown, 8gb (8x1gb) fb dim 667, 2 500gb 32m seagates, quadro fx 1500, dvdrw, cosmos 1000, pcpc 1000 22" lcd, kb/mouse and came out to around $4400 canadian, take out the vcard/monitor you got $750 off the price =p

also we used an X7DWA (intel 5400p) board.
 
what kind of architect?

because i do a LOT of work for a few architects, several electrical, hvac, structural engineers and they don't need much more than a decent core2duo and a good 4 gigs ram... a low-end discrete graphics adapter...

does this guy actually do rendering and stuff?

you'll want to make sure he's not just a cad monkey... i mean if he's using 3ds max he may not be... but still, he may not be rendering hard core....

i mean make sure a quadro is really needed... upgrading to a quadcore may be advantageous but you may very well be going overkill on this...


a good way to look at it is to ask what he's running now... and why it isn't enough... and then go from there
 
goodcooper said:
what kind of architect?

because i do a LOT of work for a few architects, several electrical, hvac, structural engineers and they don't need much more than a decent core2duo and a good 4 gigs ram... a low-end discrete graphics adapter...

does this guy actually do rendering and stuff?

you'll want to make sure he's not just a cad monkey... i mean if he's using 3ds max he may not be... but still, he may not be rendering hard core....

i mean make sure a quadro is really needed... upgrading to a quadcore may be advantageous but you may very well be going overkill on this...


a good way to look at it is to ask what he's running now... and why it isn't enough... and then go from there
Click to expand...

That's a good point. CAD really isn't that demanding as far as video hardware goes.
 
goodcooper said:
what kind of architect?

because i do a LOT of work for a few architects, several electrical, hvac, structural engineers and they don't need much more than a decent core2duo and a good 4 gigs ram... a low-end discrete graphics adapter...

does this guy actually do rendering and stuff?

you'll want to make sure he's not just a cad monkey... i mean if he's using 3ds max he may not be... but still, he may not be rendering hard core....

i mean make sure a quadro is really needed... upgrading to a quadcore may be advantageous but you may very well be going overkill on this...


a good way to look at it is to ask what he's running now... and why it isn't enough... and then go from there
Click to expand...

He does some rendering but it's not the primary focus of his work. Talking with him last night the Quadro might be overkill as well. I'm thinking Q6600 with 4GB for RAM and two 250GB drives in Raid 0 will do the trick.
 
bpmurrGT said:
He does some rendering but it's not the primary focus of his work. Talking with him last night the Quadro might be overkill as well. I'm thinking Q6600 with 4GB for RAM and two 250GB drives in Raid 0 will do the trick.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'd grab an 8800GT or 8800GTS 512MB instead then. You'll be able to get an awesome system all around just by making that change.
 
bpmurrGT said:
I'm thinking Q6600 with 4GB for RAM and two 250GB drives in Raid 0 will do the trick.
Click to expand...

If you're going with that, then skip Dell and check out one of the boutique vendors that many people in this forum use... AVA Direct, Maingear, Puget, and Velocity Micro.
 
AndonSage said:
If you're going with that, then skip Dell and check out one of the boutique vendors that many people in this forum use... AVA Direct, Maingear, Puget, and Velocity Micro.
Click to expand...

Which of them has the best rep? It seems like the main focus for these companys are gaming boxes. The only Crysis going on here is if his box is down for more then one business day. I used to work for a local boutique vendor years ago and know the good and bad about going that route.
 
bpmurrGT said:
Which of them has the best rep? It seems like the main focus for these companys are gaming boxes. The only Crysis going on here is if his box is down for more then one business day. I used to work for a local boutique vendor years ago and know the good and bad about going that route.
Click to expand...

You can't beat next day parts and service. Dell and HP are both awesome about that.
 
autodesk fluffs thier system requirements a LOT...

i have an electrical engineer who is still running systems i built for him YEARS ago with 2200+ athlons and 384-512MB ram running 2k and XP... nvidia vanta cards out of his old HPs... and that is autocad 2007, granted it runs better on the system i built for him last year which still used a single core 3800+ and 2GB ram...

the guy is undoubtedly cheap... especially compared to some of my other clients... but he gets by just fine...


i'm quoting a few new workstations right now actually, and i'm actually giving them 4 gigs ram in 2 modules, probably in an x38 board with an E6500... they'll be spending most of thier money on the XP pro and office 2003 suite (which i'm having a hard time finding atm, newegg no longer sells it and they don't want 2k7)

but my point is, i'm using xp 32... i've gone over with thier "CAD Manager", who is the guy who decides when to upgrade and etc... about the OSes and drawbacks and etc, and he's willing to give up 256MB or so of memory to stay with xp 32-bit... you'd be surprised how many of these big expensive design programs need unsupported or beta patches to run @ 64-bit....

i've basically told him it'd be a good idea to upgrade to 64-bit and vista when he comes back and has me upgrade his systems to 8GB memory when autodesk releases arch desktop 2009 and it has a 32GB ram requirement :rolleyes:

autodesk just wants to blame its inefficient programming on your computer hardware
 
bpmurrGT said:
Which of them has the best rep? It seems like the main focus for these companys are gaming boxes. The only Crysis going on here is if his box is down for more then one business day. I used to work for a local boutique vendor years ago and know the good and bad about going that route.
Click to expand...

All of them have a good reputation. And in regards to non-gaming boxes, I know for sure that AVA Direct has government contracts for providing computers, so they aren't all gaming boxes. Velocity Micro provides computers that Best Buy sells, and those aren't all gaming boxes. I'm willing to bet that Puget and Maingear aren't all gaming boxes either.

But, the point is... if a company can put together a gaming box, they can put together a business computer also, since those are actually less complicated.
 
AndonSage said:
All of them have a good reputation. And in regards to non-gaming boxes, I know for sure that AVA Direct has government contracts for providing computers, so they aren't all gaming boxes. Velocity Micro provides computers that Best Buy sells, and those aren't all gaming boxes. I'm willing to bet that Puget and Maingear aren't all gaming boxes either.

But, the point is... if a company can put together a gaming box, they can put together a business computer also, since those are actually less complicated.
Click to expand...

But can they offer next business day parts and service? Dell and HP can and do with all their workstation machines.
 
Well in the end after some more talks I decided to build the system for him. I was reassured even if I marry his sister lifetime support wasn’t expected. LOL He really didn’t want to go Dell even if it meant some extra down time. Needless to say I was way under his budget and he can even play Crysis and not just be in one.

Here are the specs:

Intel Q6600 G0 (I’ll over clock it to 3GHz to be on the safe side)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
4x2GB Corsair DDR2800 Memory
Abit IP35 Pro Motherboard
BFG 8800GTS 512MB
Antec P182 Case
Corsair 750TX Power Supply
Acer AL2216 22” LCD
2xSeagate 7200.11 500GB drive
WD My Book 500GB – for backup
Samsung 20x DVD Burner
Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse
Internal 3.5 inch flash reader
Vista Ultimate 64-bit
Office 2007 SBE


Thanks everyone for your help!
 
Dan_D said:
But can they offer next business day parts and service? Dell and HP can and do with all their workstation machines.
Click to expand...

A little after the fact, but I'll address it just for the sake of posterity.

We can, and do, if it's business critical.

We sell a lot of boxes to engineers, medical facilities, and government entities.
 
Heather Taylor said:
A little after the fact, but I'll address it just for the sake of posterity.

We can, and do, if it's business critical.

We sell a lot of boxes to engineers, medical facilities, and government entities.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of that. I have only had experience with Dell and HP/Compaq business systems. I know for a fact they can do next business day or even four hour response times for workstations and servers. My experiences with Dell and HP both have always been excellent in regard to parts and service. (Though I tend to opt to do the work myself as technicans are luck of the draw.)
 
Dan_D said:
I wasn't aware of that. I have only had experience with Dell and HP/Compaq business systems. I know for a fact they can do next business day or even four hour response times for workstations and servers. My experiences with Dell and HP both have always been excellent in regard to parts and service. (Though I tend to opt to do the work myself as technicans are luck of the draw.)
Click to expand...

We don't really advertise it, but if you're going to sell to businesses that can't afford to be down for two days, you have to support them in a way that caters to that need. In some rare cases, we can work out arrangements for same day parts replacements, though it's far easier to work within a 24-hour time frame. For businesses within a 50 mile radius of our Seattle area office...well, one of us will respond personally, part in hand, in most cases.
 
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