NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

WiSK said:
Then I'm in the minority too. I recently built a CPU+GPU loop with the Apogee Drive II in an FT03mini, which you'll know has the inner frame of an SG05. Fun challenge, I learned about annealing acrylic tubing; and in the end had to use a temporary, ghetto, tupperware reservoir to bleed the system.

But although I see how a 240 radiator fits on the M1, I'm still left with the question how to connect the tubes and/or fittings? Your hands will be too big to get down there between motherboard and rad. Or if you are proposing attaching fittings and tubes first, then moving the rad into place, then the tubes are going to kink when they fold back on themselves (and take a lot of space). I just can't see how it's going to work.
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Maybe there is a chance of pivoting the side panel by the end of the case? It could be the only way... unless you were to use very very slim tubing that weren't prone to kink...
 
WiSK said:
But although I see how a 240 radiator fits on the M1, I'm still left with the question how to connect the tubes and/or fittings? Your hands will be too big to get down there between motherboard and rad. Or if you are proposing attaching fittings and tubes first, then moving the rad into place, then the tubes are going to kink when they fold back on themselves (and take a lot of space). I just can't see how it's going to work.
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I know, and I have the same concerns. But then I look at the Falcon NW Tiki and think, if they can get a rad into a 4" wide case, it can't be harder to get one into a case 6.3" wide.
 
I also had a likewise thought when I bought the Lian-Li PC-V352 to replace the smaller SilverStone SG02F I had, but I had to get a smaller video card (HD 6870 was too big) to get it in there and most cables were an absolute pain to route.

Case in point: bigger doesn't always mean more room if it's inefficiently designed. But I don't think we need to fear that with the M1 though as it seems to be designed by people that actually have experience in assembling an SFF computer.
 
If you use a 160mm full ATX power supply would it be possible to use a shorter video card like the 670 being cooled by a H60/H70/etc with the rad mounted at one of the two bottom locations?

From the pictures I'm guessing it's not possible but it's hard to tell.

For those interested in using a full atx power supply it seems the only two compatible ones easily sourced in the US are the Fractal Design Integra R2 (140mm non modular) and the Seasonic G360 (140mm non modular). The Nexus ones are harder to find these days.
 
fyleow said:
If you use a 160mm full ATX power supply would it be possible to use a shorter video card like the 670 being cooled by a H60/H70/etc with the rad mounted at one of the two bottom locations?

From the pictures I'm guessing it's not possible but it's hard to tell.
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Yeah, it doesn't look like it :/



No room for a fan. Or tubing, for that matter.

fyleow said:
For those interested in using a full atx power supply it seems the only two compatible ones easily sourced in the US are the Fractal Design Integra R2 (140mm non modular) and the Seasonic G360 (140mm non modular). The Nexus ones are harder to find these days.
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There's a lot more than just that: FSP Aurum Gold, Antec EA-500, Silverstone Strider ST70F-ES, Corsair CX600, Cooler Master GX. I'm sure there are others.
 
prava said:
Maybe there is a chance of pivoting the side panel by the end of the case? It could be the only way... unless you were to use very very slim tubing that weren't prone to kink...
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Yes pivot is an interesting idea, to get the tubes connected with space for hands. But it would mean needing sufficient length of tubing that when you open it there's enough play that tubes don't pop out of fittings.

Necere said:
I know, and I have the same concerns. But then I look at the Falcon NW Tiki and think, if they can get a rad into a 4" wide case, it can't be harder to get one into a case 6.3" wide.
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That's rubber tubing and to save space they curve it around the water block. It's a compact design only going from CPU to rad with the pump and res built into those. Custom watercoolers usually prefer PVC tubing which is not so flexible, but it's certainly an option to use something like Neoprene instead.

I think it's not the issue how wide the case is, but that the concentration of tubing needed around the CPU, GPU, radiator and possibly to the external tubing holes is awfully busy. It's not like fittings are all the same size, but if something needs to be a few millimeters higher or lower, or longer or shorter then you might be stuck needing a solution which is not available on the market.

By the way, what's the exact distance between the centers of the two external tubing holes, and what diameter are the holes? Did you base that position of the holes on measurements of the Tecnofront Nano only, or did you check port positions of any other reservoir? (For example Bitspower Z-Tank, or even better aqualis ECO 450 ml)
 
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Thanks for the rendering Necere, it certainly helps to put things into perspective.

For an air cooled setup how do you envision the fan setup? It seems like a 120mm intake on the bottom for the GPU and a 120mm intake on the side should be sufficient. My experience is running an exhaust helps lower temps significantly but maybe in this case it's not crucial since the intakes will be feeding cool air directly to the cpu/gpu.

Does the positioning of the CPU socket differ significantly from one motherboard maker to another? In the renders with the Asus the cpu cooler and side intake lines up directly but I'm wondering if that's the case with other motherboards.

Edit: Looking at some mITX roundups the manufacturers either place the chipets above or below the CPU socket so there is going to be a difference depending on manufacturer.
 
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wahaha360 said:
There is an unspoken rule that your product cannot be priced cheaper than those of your manufacturer. If you break this rule, it's unlikely any company will work with you. If Abee is making this, it is highly likely M1 will be $200+ and that price comes at a cost against our goals / values.
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I think it's more the other way around. If the OEM manufacturer produced a case based off of their customer's design (with customer's consent), then they should not price it cheaper to compete against their own customer.

If our OEM customers have their way in selling their own products better than we do our own, we wouldn't mind at all because we still make profit from selling to our OEM customers.
 
Tony Ou said:
I think it's more the other way around. If the OEM manufacturer produced a case based off of their customer's design (with customer's consent), then they should not price it cheaper to compete against their own customer.

If our OEM customers have their way in selling their own products better than we do our own, we wouldn't mind at all because we still make profit from selling to our OEM customers.
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Makes sense.
 
WiSK said:
By the way, what's the exact distance between the centers of the two external tubing holes, and what diameter are the holes? Did you base that position of the holes on measurements of the Tecnofront Nano only, or did you check port positions of any other reservoir? (For example Bitspower Z-Tank, or even better aqualis ECO 450 ml)
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The holes are 30mm center-to-center, 25mm in diameter. Mostly based on the Nano. Tube reservoirs sit a bit further out from the case so there's more room for tubing. There's not space to move the holes anyway - they're already a bit off-center relative to the fan mount on account of the PCI tab cutout. They're pretty much about the only place they can be.

That aqualis res is ~200mm, while there's only ~170mm between the PCI slots and the top of the case. It's either not going to fit, or look ridiculous if it does. I'd say the Bitspower or Koolance are a much better fit.

fyleow said:
For an air cooled setup how do you envision the fan setup? It seems like a 120mm intake on the bottom for the GPU and a 120mm intake on the side should be sufficient. My experience is running an exhaust helps lower temps significantly but maybe in this case it's not crucial since the intakes will be feeding cool air directly to the cpu/gpu.
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You could put a 92mm on the rear as an exhaust fan.

fyleow said:
Does the positioning of the CPU socket differ significantly from one motherboard maker to another? In the renders with the Asus the cpu cooler and side intake lines up directly but I'm wondering if that's the case with other motherboards.

Edit: Looking at some mITX roundups the manufacturers either place the chipets above or below the CPU socket so there is going to be a difference depending on manufacturer.
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Most ITX boards have the socket in the "bad" location (next to the PCIe slot), which significantly limits air cooler support. The ASUS board in the renders, the EVGA Stinger, and a couple of other cheaper boards are the exception.
 
Necere said:
That aqualis res is ~200mm, while there's only ~170mm between the PCI slots and the top of the case. It's either not going to fit, or look ridiculous if it does. I'd say the Bitspower or Koolance are a much better fit.
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Haha yes, I need to stop thinking that rear fan grill is 120mm. Aqualis is indeed huge. But it's so lovely... oh well, back to the H220 solution then.

I'm thinking to have the radiator ports at the front of the case, and the tubing run along top and bottom of the rad, so to give me enough slack to allow removing the rad with loop intact, and to avoid fitting congestion at the back of the case. So it will be a simple loop: pump+CPU -> GPU -> rad+res -> pump.

So I'll likely lose the front 2.5" mounting, but with a short GPU I've suddenly got a lot of room in the lower front part of the case (extra 120 rad? :) )

Any reason the hdd mounts on the floor of the case are at the back, instead of the front? Would imagine it's hotter at the back, even with a waterblock.
 
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WiSK said:
Any reason the hdd mounts on the floor of the case are at the back, instead of the front? Would imagine it's hotter at the back, even with a waterblock.
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The HDD mounts are at the back because you couldn't mount both a fan and a drive with the mounts towards the front. There's less space at the front because of the I/O module, and the fan mounts can't be moved back because of the feet.

The other reason is because rear exhaust cards have their intake up front, and this way you can have a drive mounted while still getting a good supply of air to the GPU.
 
Check out this motherboard, would totally suit the 3 slots of the N1 Case.

You could add a dedicated sound card / raid card, plus a dual slot video card all in an itx motherboard.

ECS H61H2-MV

h61h2-mv_580.2.jpg


can be found at newegg for only $40

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...sp=&AID=10446076&PID=6146846&SID=16z5oybc6h18

(unfortunately it's H61, so no overcloking the CPU, but I'm sure many would live with that in order to get a dedicated sound card/raid car and GPU in an itx form factor)

Here's a review of the motherboard from Techpowerup.com:

http://www.techpowerup.com/174727/ECS-Intros-H61H2-MV-Compact-Micro-ATX-Motherboard.html
 
adjas said:
(unfortunately it's H61, so no overcloking the CPU
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No SATA 6 gb/s, which I think is more likely to be a deal breaker. No USB 3.0 either. It's a pity DTX didn't get popular but it was an AMD creation wasn't it? no surprise Intel weren't interested in adopting it.

Asus just announced some small µATX boards with three expansion slots, although I suspect they might have the width issue (fouling the PSU) but maybe somebody will like to give it a try with a picoPSU?

Who wants to do a kickstarter for a good DTX board, a fanless platinum SFX modular PSU, and a big(ish) passive air cooler to fit the M1?
 
22.6 x 18.0cm - so it's 1cm over the ITX standard. It would probably collide with a SFX PSU, but would be fine with the ATX PSU (looking at renders). But these small ones are again only H61.
 
adjas said:
Check out this motherboard, would totally suit the 3 slots of the N1 Case.

You could add a dedicated sound card / raid card, plus a dual slot video card all in an itx motherboard.

ECS H61H2-MV
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Yup, it's already on the test list. I originally posted about the board back in November.

IanM said:
Asus just announced some small µATX boards with three expansion slots, although I suspect they might have the width issue (fouling the PSU) but maybe somebody will like to give it a try with a picoPSU?
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Interesting, I hadn't seen those before. You're right - they'll foul the SFX PSU due to the width, but a PicoPSU or, as faugusztin suggests, an ATX PSU (or SFX in the ATX bracket with an adapter) leaves enough room.

The bigger issue is the height; of those boards, only the three H61 boards have any chance of fitting. They're 226mm tall, and we've got... 226.5mm. Assuming Lian Li doesn't make any adjustments. So... yeah. Basically the board would be sitting on the floor of the case. Lay down some electrical tape, maybe? :p
 
Not sure if this has already been answered, but what is the purpose of the perforated top? The only thing that I can think of is passive air intake/output, since there don't appear to be any fan mounts on it.

Also, is the plan to make the front USB ports 3.0?
 
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Heat rises, no matter how good your fans are..

Yes the front are USB3, else they wouldn't be blue ports.
 
yamato said:
Not sure if this has already been answered, but what is the purpose of the perforated top? The only thing that I can think of is passive air intake/output, since there don't appear to be any fan mounts on it.
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With such a small volume, best temps will be had by making all fans intake. So all the perforations indeed serve as passive exhaust. Positive pressure also ensures that dust will keep moving and not hang in the case.
 
DarkStryke said:
Heat rises, no matter how good your fans are..
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Though really, fans will easily overcome any natural convection currents.


Yes, the top perforations are for warm air to escape passively. The PSU also exhausts out the top.
 
Necere said:
The PSU won't fit; non-modular, <=140mm long ATX PSUs only (or use SFX, which can be modular). The Windforce GTX670 should be okay, although if you've got the 3.5" HDD underneath it (which is the only 3.5" mount if you use an ATX PSU), two of the fans on the card will be mostly blocked by the drive. I'd also tend to discourage using cards that exhaust inside the case - as with most small cases, rear-exhaust GPUs are better for system cooling.
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Okay...

If I were to use the dual HDD cage in http://i.imgur.com/WgB3uK1.jpg, would this mean I have to place 2.5" SSDs at the slim DVD slot and the bottom of the case? The images aren't that clear in this regard.

I also believe the Swiftech H220 fits this, does it?
 
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yimingwuzere said:
Okay...

If I were to use the dual HDD cage in http://i.imgur.com/WgB3uK1.jpg, would this mean I have to place 2.5" SSDs at the slim DVD slot and the bottom of the case? The images aren't that clear in this regard.
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Yes, or the inside front mount as shown here. The 3.5" HDD cage won't block it. You can just make out a 2.5" drive on the inside front next to the 3.5" cage in the top configuration in this image.

yimingwuzere said:
I also believe the Swiftech H220 fits this, does it?
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Based on the published drawings both the H220 rad and block/pump should fit. The only question is if the tubing will be a problem or not, and we won't know for sure until it can be tested. I think worst case is it might require swapping out the stock tubing for something with thinner walls that can take bends better.
 
Necere said:
Based on the published drawings both the H220 rad and block/pump should fit. The only question is if the tubing will be a problem or not, and we won't know for sure until it can be tested. I think worst case is it might require swapping out the stock tubing for something with thinner walls that can take bends better.
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Got to correct you here: thinner walled tubing kinks easier than thick. Best tubing for dramatic curves is 3/8" - 5/8" which is what Swiftech already uses for the H220. So only improvement could be to switch to a rubber-based tubing like on 620 and the new H60, or just use some angle fittings. The pump is strong enough that even using a lot of angle fittings shouldn't be a problem.
 
WiSK said:
Got to correct you here: thinner walled tubing kinks easier than thick. Best tubing for dramatic curves is 3/8" - 5/8" which is what Swiftech already uses for the H220. So only improvement could be to switch to a rubber-based tubing like on 620 and the new H60, or just use some angle fittings. The pump is strong enough that even using a lot of angle fittings shouldn't be a problem.
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Admittedly I didn't think that line through well - I was thinking on two different tracks there: one, thinner tubing will be a bit easier to route and block less airflow; and two, some tubing material bends without kinking easier than others. So it should've read more like, "swap the stock tubing for something that can take bends better, and/or with thinner walls." Maybe they'll cancel eachother out :p

As far as I've seen the H220 has integrated swivel barbs, so fittings are probably out.
 
This case is way too big and it's ugly as hell. It has no business in the SFF forum I demand the mods move it before members heads start exploding from being forced to look at this pos in the wrong forum.
 
Harry1969 said:
This case is way too big and it's ugly as hell. It has no business in the SFF forum I demand the mods move it before members heads start exploding from being forced to look at this pos in the wrong forum.
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A masterpiece of constructive criticism, I'm sure they'll take your words to heart :rolleyes:
 
Harry1969 said:
This case is way too big and it's ugly as hell. It has no business in the SFF forum I demand the mods move it before members heads start exploding from being forced to look at this pos in the wrong forum.
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Insert sarcasm disclaimer here: ________________
 
In case people didn't get it, Harry was referencing this thread from the other day, in which some people took issue with that case being posted here in the SFF forum, on account of its size. Wouldn't have hurt to maybe drop a </sarcasm> tag in there though. Hard to tell on the internet sometimes :p
 
I knew it refrenced the other thread but he was a little over the top with his presentation and it really wasn't necessary. On a side note, the other thread got blown way out of proportion once the size-bandwagon started rollin'. Also, he was banned before I even quoted him so somebody missed the sarcasm and jumped right on it. :D
 
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