Not like Intel hasn't had their share of "errata". I can think of a few times though I don't remember the specifics. Real helpful, eh? Like that there original Pentium issue. http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium/ppiie/ or http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20030407062442.html or http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/02/28/intel_admits_sdram_as_good/. I think we can all agree that processor issues aren't an "AMD thing". If anything, crappy chipsets has had more to do with all the junk that people think are wrong with AMD setups. I've said it before, I'll say it again. You can mess up an Intel machine just as bad as you can an AMD machine if you don't do your homework, don't pick good components, don't install the right drivers, etc. I think I can honestly say I've had more crap from Intel systems then I have from AMD systems, and I've had and dealt mostly with AMD systems. And I date back to the 386DX40 (first I've owned, but not first I've used). I've been AMD since the K5 with a minor Celeron300A burp in-between, but have managed countless Intel boxes over the platform generations at work. I'm not saying either is better, I'm saying both can be screwed up (<-- Read again if you feel the need to flame me). I've installed Intel's application accelerator on a brand new machine straight from the OEM and had it cause a no-boot/reinstall. If AMD has a bad rep, its due to crappy support from 3rd party vendors, people not doing their job right, etc. It ain't the technology.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
My college says no Athlons....
- Thread starter Matt126
- Start date
spectrumbx
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,647
Actually, some applications are optimize for some processors and will not run on others.
So, the school might have a point.
My guess is, the school must have one of such applications the will run only on intel.
Ex: superspeed is one application that runs on specific processors depending on the version release.
So, the school might have a point.
My guess is, the school must have one of such applications the will run only on intel.
Ex: superspeed is one application that runs on specific processors depending on the version release.
Any software vendor who releases software optimized so heavily that it will not work on another chip wihout providing an alternate binary for other CPU architectures doesn't deserve your patronage.
Yes, compilers can optimize very heavily for specific architectures.. but you'd have to be an idiot to distribute a binary that will only run on one x86 arch.
Yes, compilers can optimize very heavily for specific architectures.. but you'd have to be an idiot to distribute a binary that will only run on one x86 arch.
leukotriene
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,664
It's true but as ra-odin stated, you'd have to be a total idiot to do it because you'd be alienating everyone with a different CPU (in the case of SSE3 optimizations for example)...excluding 99.5%+ of the market. To my knowledge you'd have to optimize it specifically for NetBurst for instance, and if the resulting code wouldn't run on an athlon it almost certainly wouldn't run on a PIII, and possibly a P-M.
ICC compiling for "PIII" typically gives you code that runs extremely well on the AthlonXP, which supports SSE. Similarly, the A64 runs "PIV" code very well indeed. There may be some exceptions, but I'm not really in a position to say.
Code that runs on a PII should work perfectly on every athlon ever made provided there is no CPU detection routine to screw things up.
I bet they have lab machines you can use if something really doesn't run on your computer. I have never heard of a school that didn't have a small lab for every type of computer work they do, for people just like you (or Mac users) who may not be able to run a certain piece of software.
Funny.. I never knew I was making blanket statements, or that I had to given researched proof for everything I said.... on a public forum...
The only exceptions?! Those programs are the core of engineering majors. A program that doesn't/isn't allowed to run is still a program that doesn't run.
I doubt any corporation(yes i consider universities to be corporations) would trust a single trustworthy product against a line of products that have a history (yes, amd chips fail more often. as in just die.) of failing sooner than intel-based chips. It's a cost over time thing.
Don't be such an ass. I said AthlonXP and P4. You read it wrong.
mmx. simd. sse. sse2. sse3. All very specialized. Rarely used by most programs. And the programs that DO/did(I'll admit, newer software revisions compensate) have those errors do exist, even if they aren't still on the market. A college that can afford to upgrade all it's equipment and software even every 4 years is a very wealthy university indeed.
My fault for not clarifying. I meant in terms of used computers, because there are alot of people who can't afford to get a new computer until after their first year of school. If I was an uninformed parent(I'd estimate 80-90% of parents with college-age kids are), I would listen to the recommendation of the "informed" salesperson. $100 or $200 more for a P4-based computer is chump-change compared to the tens of thousands spent on tuition.
Not-working is still not working. But I concede the point for recent software. However, again, not every university will have the most current software.
And you didn't even try to understand the point of my post... eh...
leukotriene said:
The only exceptions?! Those programs are the core of engineering majors. A program that doesn't/isn't allowed to run is still a program that doesn't run.
I doubt any corporation(yes i consider universities to be corporations) would trust a single trustworthy product against a line of products that have a history (yes, amd chips fail more often. as in just die.) of failing sooner than intel-based chips. It's a cost over time thing.
Also, you say "P4 has been around a bit longer". It hasn't.
You're just wrong, the athlon classic was introduced long before the first Pentium IV was .
Look it up.
Christ, do some freaking research
Don't be such an ass. I said AthlonXP and P4. You read it wrong.
mmx. simd. sse. sse2. sse3. All very specialized. Rarely used by most programs. And the programs that DO/did(I'll admit, newer software revisions compensate) have those errors do exist, even if they aren't still on the market. A college that can afford to upgrade all it's equipment and software even every 4 years is a very wealthy university indeed.
My fault for not clarifying. I meant in terms of used computers, because there are alot of people who can't afford to get a new computer until after their first year of school. If I was an uninformed parent(I'd estimate 80-90% of parents with college-age kids are), I would listen to the recommendation of the "informed" salesperson. $100 or $200 more for a P4-based computer is chump-change compared to the tens of thousands spent on tuition.
Not-working is still not working. But I concede the point for recent software. However, again, not every university will have the most current software.
And you didn't even try to understand the point of my post... eh...
"P4 has been around a bit longer, and intel has proven that they understand and fully integrated the SSE, SSE2, SSE3 instructions, whereas AMD is just incorporating them. Recent = potentially unreliable/unstable/buggy"
I think that is going to replace my favorite statement
that or
"Not everyone can afford an Athlon XP"
I think that is going to replace my favorite statement
that or
"Not everyone can afford an Athlon XP"
Woofer00 said:
if you want to be taken seriously, itd be a GREAT idea.
I thought that was already explained...THEY DONT EXIST.
Talking out your ass AGAIN? I'm ashamed. AMD chips are EVERY SINGLE BIT as reliable as P4 chips.
Don't be such an ass. AthlonXP is just a revision of Athlon. P4 is NOT a revision of a P3.
So are you taking back what you said, or what? I'm confused. You talk about how theyre necessary and that AMDs are obviously inferior because they dont have a technology developed and patented by another company that they are only privvy to on rare occassions when they invoke a technology sharing agreement but that give the AMD chips few benefits except for running a few code instructions in a more efficient matter, but then you say that its needed. OK first off the whole issue is that this is the STUDENTS theyre telling need this. Second off, no one in their right mind would upgrade just to get new instructions that speed up execution a tiny bit. And any program that is written so that it REQUIRES the extensions isnt worth ANYONES money and would be written by COMPLETE IDIOTS.
So its OK to spend more for an p4 (or athlon, please reexplain which is more expensive, you seem to have forgotten), even though you get nothing extra? oh but the parents cant afford to, yet they should, because they paying for tuition?
patches are free. anyplace that has software makes an effort to keep up with the newest software to keep things up to date. And if you honestly are going to say "univerisites cant afford it" i will find where you live and LAUGH IN YOUR FACE.
"INTEL ROOLZ AMD DROOLZ"?
leukotriene, kronchev, emorphien
This post is kinda of directed at you.
It's in my experience that arguing with people like Woofer00 is pointless. Judging from what I see he honestly believes what he's saying, and this is his thought process.
You show him factual proof he's wrong. Woofer00 will dismiss the proof because
A: It was authored or co-offered by AMD. Well, since he's biased, he can't accept anything that could have come from AMD.
B: It was authored by "you". Since he's already convinced that everything he says is fact and everything you say is false, you have to be false, and he is right.
C: Woofer00 must be right because he is right. If you do not agree with Woofer00, you must be wrong, no matter what you say.
There is no way to terminate this loop process. You can bang on the drum all day long proving him wrong, but he's never going to realize it.
While it is useful to dispell the misconceptions and lies that Woofer00 spreads to the other forum goers, keep this in mind: The only one you are convincing are the other forum goers.
As to where I stand, I currently have an AMD K6-2 550mhz system using ASUS's P5-A motherboard. This system can boot into DOS or Linux (MEPIS for those who care). However, since the Linux Partition is solely for networking with WinNT based systems, the system is only booted into MEPIS about 5 times a year to run backups and check the disk integrity. Other than those 5 times a year, we have not had to turn the computer off or otherwise reboot it.
Obviously, I think a lot of AMD.
A "new" dual P 233MX Tyan Tomcat board I picked up at roughly the same time saw both chips fail back in early 2002. An Intel Celeron system (800mhz) I picked up saw the chip fail back in late 2002. An Intel Pentium 4 I picked up had to be RMA'd within 2 weeks of opening the box. The second P4 I got only lasted 4 days before it was RMA'd. ( both of them 2.6ghz HT 800mhz Northwoods). I'm now on my third P4 chip.
Compared to that, 5 duron systems, ( 3 800mhz, 1.1ghz, 1.2ghz) I've built are still running perfectly fine.
Several Athlon systems I've built, 850mhz, 1ghz, 1.4ghz, 1800+, 1500+, 2000+,. 2400+, 2500+ (Barton), 2600+, 2800+, 3000+ all are still running fine. Every single one of them still boots, posts, and loads whatever OS I want to load.
Athlon64 has been the same story with 2800+ and 3200+.
These are not computers built to sell, these are systems I built for myself. Many of them I have sold off when it came time to upgrade, but I keep these accounts seperate from custom build systems. If I step over to the custom build side and contract side, my experience is nearly identical.
In my own business of building computers, when I look over receipts, Intel systems are responsible for 70% of my go-backs and parts replacements. AMD accounts for 30% of having to pack up my tools and go back and look at the computer. Keep in mind, AMD computers make up the bulk (averaging out to 95% starting since 2000) of my custom builds. Out of my contract builds, AMD systems average 60% of the systems I end up building. (averging from Sept. 2001)
I'm not pushing the level of Dell or Gateway, hell, I just rely on word-of-mouth around work and school to get people to build me systems. Occasionally I get system contracts to upgrade or network a small office, which can lead to a system building contract, but I'm just a small garage type computer builder.
Given the headaches I'm experiencing with Intel systems on my own, I really don't see how Dell or Gateway manage their tech support with Intel systems.
It's also been in my own experience that given the exact same ATX styled case, all of the Intel chips have run hotter than AMD chips, something I've made sure of using a Fluke thermometer. ( 54 Series II if your really interested) Cooling down the Intel built systems to the AMD level almost always requires an additional fan, which means additional noise.
This is just my personalized experience with Intel and AMD over the years.... maybe I've gotten a rotten run of Intel processors, but I don't think so.
How does this apply to the original posting with the college?
Given what I've encountered with Intel and AMD, my AMD units cost less, perform better, have less heat, require less fans, and don't fail as often as Intel. I have yet to encounter any program that I use, or any programs that the local uni and tech schools use, that refuses to run on AMD. Some of the earlier posts here have noted some programs that do not run... all of those programs so far have been patched. Now, I'm no longer in CS in any local school, even though I really should get back into school. But I do build both AMD and Intel systems for people attending: 2 different Tech Schools, 1 University, 2 local Colleges, 1 local Medical University, 1 local Medical College, as well as people attending University's or colleges in other towns. I also know that a couple of my systems are used by residents and interns of 2 other local hospitals. So far, with such a diverse group, ranging from CS students to lawyers to medical residents, none of the programs they've used have ever had a problem running on either system type (well, aside from the afformentioned SolidWorks).
Now, maybe I'm not the worlds greatest computer maker. I'm not a programmer, I'm not Micheal Dell... but judging from my own experience, something smells wrong about NJIT... If they are running into issues... I'd really love to know what those issues are, because it's something I've never seen before.
(awaits for this post to get ripped to shreds)
This post is kinda of directed at you.
It's in my experience that arguing with people like Woofer00 is pointless. Judging from what I see he honestly believes what he's saying, and this is his thought process.
You show him factual proof he's wrong. Woofer00 will dismiss the proof because
A: It was authored or co-offered by AMD. Well, since he's biased, he can't accept anything that could have come from AMD.
B: It was authored by "you". Since he's already convinced that everything he says is fact and everything you say is false, you have to be false, and he is right.
C: Woofer00 must be right because he is right. If you do not agree with Woofer00, you must be wrong, no matter what you say.
There is no way to terminate this loop process. You can bang on the drum all day long proving him wrong, but he's never going to realize it.
While it is useful to dispell the misconceptions and lies that Woofer00 spreads to the other forum goers, keep this in mind: The only one you are convincing are the other forum goers.
As to where I stand, I currently have an AMD K6-2 550mhz system using ASUS's P5-A motherboard. This system can boot into DOS or Linux (MEPIS for those who care). However, since the Linux Partition is solely for networking with WinNT based systems, the system is only booted into MEPIS about 5 times a year to run backups and check the disk integrity. Other than those 5 times a year, we have not had to turn the computer off or otherwise reboot it.
Obviously, I think a lot of AMD.
A "new" dual P 233MX Tyan Tomcat board I picked up at roughly the same time saw both chips fail back in early 2002. An Intel Celeron system (800mhz) I picked up saw the chip fail back in late 2002. An Intel Pentium 4 I picked up had to be RMA'd within 2 weeks of opening the box. The second P4 I got only lasted 4 days before it was RMA'd. ( both of them 2.6ghz HT 800mhz Northwoods). I'm now on my third P4 chip.
Compared to that, 5 duron systems, ( 3 800mhz, 1.1ghz, 1.2ghz) I've built are still running perfectly fine.
Several Athlon systems I've built, 850mhz, 1ghz, 1.4ghz, 1800+, 1500+, 2000+,. 2400+, 2500+ (Barton), 2600+, 2800+, 3000+ all are still running fine. Every single one of them still boots, posts, and loads whatever OS I want to load.
Athlon64 has been the same story with 2800+ and 3200+.
These are not computers built to sell, these are systems I built for myself. Many of them I have sold off when it came time to upgrade, but I keep these accounts seperate from custom build systems. If I step over to the custom build side and contract side, my experience is nearly identical.
In my own business of building computers, when I look over receipts, Intel systems are responsible for 70% of my go-backs and parts replacements. AMD accounts for 30% of having to pack up my tools and go back and look at the computer. Keep in mind, AMD computers make up the bulk (averaging out to 95% starting since 2000) of my custom builds. Out of my contract builds, AMD systems average 60% of the systems I end up building. (averging from Sept. 2001)
I'm not pushing the level of Dell or Gateway, hell, I just rely on word-of-mouth around work and school to get people to build me systems. Occasionally I get system contracts to upgrade or network a small office, which can lead to a system building contract, but I'm just a small garage type computer builder.
Given the headaches I'm experiencing with Intel systems on my own, I really don't see how Dell or Gateway manage their tech support with Intel systems.
It's also been in my own experience that given the exact same ATX styled case, all of the Intel chips have run hotter than AMD chips, something I've made sure of using a Fluke thermometer. ( 54 Series II if your really interested) Cooling down the Intel built systems to the AMD level almost always requires an additional fan, which means additional noise.
This is just my personalized experience with Intel and AMD over the years.... maybe I've gotten a rotten run of Intel processors, but I don't think so.
How does this apply to the original posting with the college?
Given what I've encountered with Intel and AMD, my AMD units cost less, perform better, have less heat, require less fans, and don't fail as often as Intel. I have yet to encounter any program that I use, or any programs that the local uni and tech schools use, that refuses to run on AMD. Some of the earlier posts here have noted some programs that do not run... all of those programs so far have been patched. Now, I'm no longer in CS in any local school, even though I really should get back into school. But I do build both AMD and Intel systems for people attending: 2 different Tech Schools, 1 University, 2 local Colleges, 1 local Medical University, 1 local Medical College, as well as people attending University's or colleges in other towns. I also know that a couple of my systems are used by residents and interns of 2 other local hospitals. So far, with such a diverse group, ranging from CS students to lawyers to medical residents, none of the programs they've used have ever had a problem running on either system type (well, aside from the afformentioned SolidWorks).
Now, maybe I'm not the worlds greatest computer maker. I'm not a programmer, I'm not Micheal Dell... but judging from my own experience, something smells wrong about NJIT... If they are running into issues... I'd really love to know what those issues are, because it's something I've never seen before.
(awaits for this post to get ripped to shreds)
Saist said:
I'm pretty sure I said I was wrong on a couple points... and that I wasn't talking about recent hardware software. Read every post. I'm talking older hardware and software. In every single post. I'm too lazy to go back, but I'm pretty sure I agreed that Athlon64 and P4 were fine with recent software. so ok... i'll keep banging my drum. I'm pretty sure I also said that I make AMD systems as well, so it's not that I don't like AMD. It's just that in my personal experience, they have more issues(e.g. i've never once used a stock amd heatsink b/c they're inadequete, but the intel retails seem to dissipate well enough. As for spreading lies... well.. I've learned my lesson - never ever say anything remotely bad about AMD on the AMD board, no matter what you're actually saying. b/c the actual content of your posts will never be read - only the negative statements.
This brings up a good point. There is a disease thats prevalent in the IT industry (we need to come up with a name for it) where those infected feel the need to associate themselves with a brand or a line of thinking, and refused to be moved from it regardless of the fact that the nature of the IT industry is change, change, change (sports anyone?). You pick your brand and then stand behind only that brand, etc. when instead you should be picking your experience and standing behind your experience. And FYI, your experience can be tainted by your own lack of knowledge or situation. Standing behind your experience, you can still be completely wrong. You of course have to realize that others may have much more. I don't think Woofykins is generally a jerk, I just think he has that mindset that "what I have seen is law because I have SEEN it", much like way too many people in this industry. What happens if two people see complete opposite results? Then you have to dig deeper and look at scenarios, cost, others experience, etc. I don't generally recommend one brand over another because if I tell my buddy go with Abit, best motherboard maker ever, what happens when they change management a year later, drop their quality, etc? I prefer to recommend specific motherboards, specific chipsets, specific software packages based upon what budget / needs there are. Perception is the key. Is a Mac a good buy nowadays? Hell no (my opinion)! But do they suck for $5? Naw, I'd pick up several. Thats an extreme example, but I think you know what I mean. The biggest and possibly only difference I have seen between those "infected" with this mindset and those that aren't is attitude (realizing you can learn something new from everyone and you might have just missed some big piece of IT news) and knowledge in terms of doing your homework researching stuff/staying on top of it all. Seems to me like the college has probably not done its job in terms of staying on top of stuff and probably either thinks it has or thinks its unnecessary. Either way, its being very naughty. I understand that it might be easier to take the quick route of just saying "Don't git them thar Athalons", but if you are in a position of power in terms of giving purchasing advice to thousands of people, then damnit do your job and do the research.
Me too. Think of it like this. Being wrong is wonderful, because it generally means the truth made it out. And we ALL likes da truth, eh? If I'm ever wrong then it means one of two things. Everyone else in the IT industry is also wrong because my knowledge is tied straight into the mothership (I go with the majority coupled with my own experience), or I haven't done my research. When someone posts something we simply have to ask which is it?
Think of it like this. Being wrong is wonderful, because it generally means the truth made it out. And we ALL likes da truth, eh? If I'm ever wrong then it means one of two things. Everyone else in the IT industry is also wrong because my knowledge is tied straight into the mothership (I go with the majority coupled with my own experience), or I haven't done my research. When someone posts something we simply have to ask which is it?
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
- Messages
- 32,992
Quite true, one of the school systems I work for is dumping their old Novell servers for Win2k3 even though they work perfectly fine. All because this is what he "knows". He's also eliminating the Apple Xserves because of one bum server and the fact that their old macs are slow to authenticate. He brought in a test win2k3 server to use active directory authentication to prove his point of it being faster. Of course, he also put in a cisco switch with a Gig over Copper run back to the server closet where its connected to replace the 10/100
I didn't bother reading the entire 10 pages but from what I read in the first few and the last it seems NJIT simply hired a chimpanzee to write their hardware requirements doc. The funniset part is all the people saying 'just dont tell them youre using a amd64." That is so ludicrous it's sickening. TELL THEM by all means when you have no issue with any of their run of the mill software apps! What are they going to ask you to leave? Matt I understand you're concern over the issue but honestly I doubt it will turn out to be much of one. Enjoy school while you can and be sure to get some certs on top of that degree as we all know why.
PicoFaradPJF
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2001
- Messages
- 1,429
Woofer00 said:
Way to show that Saist is right.
The lesson is not that you can't saying bad things about an AMD chip (as if the evil AMD fanboys do nothing but twist your words to silence you), people bitch about stuff all the time! The lesson is if you are going statements like you have made, you better have some facts, epecially ones you can point to, to back you up. Otherwise you going to get ripped a new one, especially when your name has noobie under it.d33k said:
Yeah, they obviously asked the wrong person. My first guess was that someone in a support/IT position made that recommendation to limit the amount of work he/she would have to do in troubleshooting/support.That reminds me of my last job. The owner/salesman asked me what the requirements were to run the software (me = programmer). He was disappointed that I only said a Pentium 75MHz, 64MB (for the min OS: Win9x, more for NT/2K/XP), 20-30MB of hard drive space + xMB/1000s of records, even though it was true. But at least he didn't change it in the literature.
I'm going to repeat what d33k said - i didn't bother to read every single post in this thread, but I still figured I'll throw in my 2 cents (seems like everyone else on this forums has, heh).
Regarding the initial issue of the thread (which I'm sure has been established by now): get an AMD and it won't matter. These days, i don't know if a single software that I find myself using - both in home, entertainment, engineering use (and I use cad/matlab/spice/etc..) - that won't run on both an AMD and Intel (and hell, even Sun machines!).
Regarding the Woofer00 issue:
I also work partime in the IT department of a major university, and I will give him some credit with the comment that no all schools want to stay with the latest version of software. They find something that's reliable and works, and they stay with it. Critical software (eg AntiVirus) is upgraded to newest versions the second they come out - but non criticals, such as WS_FTP (which is the FTP program recommended and distributed here) hasn't been touched since before my time (SSH programs, etc..)
Someone's comment about sticking with experience: I have to agree with that statement. I do it myself. I remember a year or two ago, people asking "Should I get the NVidia FX or the Radeons," the radeons were definitly better -- benchmarks, noise, etc.. they were better. Yet I recommended nvidia because _my_ personal experience has only been disaster w/ every radeon card I've owned (driver conflicts nonstop). People tell me that ATI has fixed their driver problems, but i was still biased due to my own experience.
Granted, if anyone was to ask that question, my reply would be along the lines of, "The radeon is the perferred choice right now due to it's <quote stats here>. However, from my own experience, I would perfer the Nvidia card because of <my personal experiences here>." Mostly because I understand the impact of personal experience -- I see it everyday doing tech work. The most clueless people in the world will think they're right cause it happened that way ONE time for them years ago.
To the person who mentioned the AMD K6 chips -- wow, you just took me down memory lane. I haven't heard that phrase since I owned a K6-2 550mhz.... that was the first and only IBM computer I ever bought, heh.
Oh, a random question/note. In terms of software running only on an Intel or AMD -- remember those games that were released w/ the Pentium Pro's? The ones with MMX technology. What were the equivalent AMD chips back then? I can't remember that far back... (8 years ago?) Did AMD make chips then? I remember hearing about them only cause of the increasing popularity since around the K6 chips came out.
And to the other general comments here: If I had the money, I still think I would go Intel. Ironic because I do tend to stand by my own experiences, and in my life, I've built ONE Intel computer, and NUMEROUS AMDs. But I like to keep an open mind, and no one can say with 100% certainty that "Intel is BAD." So I sorta wanna try it out and see for myself I choose AMD cause I'm a poor college student who would rather OC my cheap (in terms of price) chip.
In terms of AMDs burning out or breaking more than Intels - I'm either blessed with g'luck, or havne't worked with enough computers, because I've never had either company's chip die on me yet, heh.
Oh, and about the MAC comment. They seem pretty cool. I know a lot of hardcore CS people who perfer them over PCs any day, and I know they're knowlegable enough that it makes me wonder what I'm missing out on.
For the person who commented that a school tends to keep different types of computer around - of all the publicly, easily accessible labs on my campus, we're down to 4 MACs - and each semester, they keep cutting it down... they're phasing out all the SUN machines this summer for P4s. Threw out the O3s 2-3 years ago. It's history going into the trash! Hehe.
So, I just replied to many random comments that I picked up on when I skimmed this thread - pardon me if I didn't read something in depth enough so misinterpreted what you said (to whomever I'm responding to)
Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Woofer00 actually owns AMD computers, so although it may sound like he's an Intel boy, he really isn't
Regarding the initial issue of the thread (which I'm sure has been established by now): get an AMD and it won't matter. These days, i don't know if a single software that I find myself using - both in home, entertainment, engineering use (and I use cad/matlab/spice/etc..) - that won't run on both an AMD and Intel (and hell, even Sun machines!).
Regarding the Woofer00 issue:
I also work partime in the IT department of a major university, and I will give him some credit with the comment that no all schools want to stay with the latest version of software. They find something that's reliable and works, and they stay with it. Critical software (eg AntiVirus) is upgraded to newest versions the second they come out - but non criticals, such as WS_FTP (which is the FTP program recommended and distributed here) hasn't been touched since before my time (SSH programs, etc..)
Someone's comment about sticking with experience: I have to agree with that statement. I do it myself. I remember a year or two ago, people asking "Should I get the NVidia FX or the Radeons," the radeons were definitly better -- benchmarks, noise, etc.. they were better. Yet I recommended nvidia because _my_ personal experience has only been disaster w/ every radeon card I've owned (driver conflicts nonstop). People tell me that ATI has fixed their driver problems, but i was still biased due to my own experience.
Granted, if anyone was to ask that question, my reply would be along the lines of, "The radeon is the perferred choice right now due to it's <quote stats here>. However, from my own experience, I would perfer the Nvidia card because of <my personal experiences here>." Mostly because I understand the impact of personal experience -- I see it everyday doing tech work. The most clueless people in the world will think they're right cause it happened that way ONE time for them years ago.
To the person who mentioned the AMD K6 chips -- wow, you just took me down memory lane. I haven't heard that phrase since I owned a K6-2 550mhz.... that was the first and only IBM computer I ever bought, heh.
Oh, a random question/note. In terms of software running only on an Intel or AMD -- remember those games that were released w/ the Pentium Pro's? The ones with MMX technology. What were the equivalent AMD chips back then? I can't remember that far back... (8 years ago?) Did AMD make chips then? I remember hearing about them only cause of the increasing popularity since around the K6 chips came out.
And to the other general comments here: If I had the money, I still think I would go Intel. Ironic because I do tend to stand by my own experiences, and in my life, I've built ONE Intel computer, and NUMEROUS AMDs. But I like to keep an open mind, and no one can say with 100% certainty that "Intel is BAD." So I sorta wanna try it out and see for myself
I choose AMD cause I'm a poor college student who would rather OC my cheap (in terms of price) chip.In terms of AMDs burning out or breaking more than Intels - I'm either blessed with g'luck, or havne't worked with enough computers, because I've never had either company's chip die on me yet, heh.
Oh, and about the MAC comment. They seem pretty cool. I know a lot of hardcore CS people who perfer them over PCs any day, and I know they're knowlegable enough that it makes me wonder what I'm missing out on.
For the person who commented that a school tends to keep different types of computer around - of all the publicly, easily accessible labs on my campus, we're down to 4 MACs - and each semester, they keep cutting it down... they're phasing out all the SUN machines this summer for P4s. Threw out the O3s 2-3 years ago. It's history going into the trash! Hehe.
So, I just replied to many random comments that I picked up on when I skimmed this thread - pardon me if I didn't read something in depth enough so misinterpreted what you said (to whomever I'm responding to)
Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Woofer00 actually owns AMD computers, so although it may sound like he's an Intel boy, he really isn't
Kuo said:
This is a bit off-topic - but yea, Macs are nice machines. I grew up with them, and still own one (I'm not made of money, so I haven't purchased a new one in about 5 years
) but they really wouldn't appeal to most of the HardOCP crowd.. there's really not a lot of room for tweaking and playing with either hardware or OS, and not a lot of games get ported - and those that do run fairly poorly because of shoddy porting jobs and slow drivers. They're really geared towards getting out of your way and letting you do your work, whatever that may be.Personally I keep mine around because I'm a CS guy, and I like to keep up with all the major platforms, even if I'm not planning on really using it myself anymore. The only thing you're really missing out on is the OS - which is quite nice. Hardware wise, they're nothing special, other than interesting industrial design.
leukotriene
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,664
woofer00 said:
Talk as much as you want, just back it up.
You came into this thread and accused other people of not doing their research and made a number of unsubstantiated claims in the same post, some of which were false.
If you expect to be taken seriously, please provide some proof of your own claims.
Until you do, I don't see why anyone should take your claims of 'incompatibility with legacy engineering programs that university departments may still use' seriously.
Kuo said:
Of course, this is common practice. BUT one truism does not a valid point make.
Merely because IT departments use older software doesnt therefore mean that software is in any way incompatible with athlon chips. In my experience, most statements about incompatibility between Pentium and Athlon chips are simply false, or produced as CYA statements (and are also false) so that a company does not have to warrant or support chips they may have not tested their program on.
Macs are nice, and if you can run the software you need on them, there's no reason to avoid them. On the other hand there's not really any major reason to choose them over a Windows PC. For me it comes down to preference, I like both but can't afford em both. One day I swear I'll get an up to date mac. (I have a couple performas which suck, I do greatly prefer OS X over any older Mac OS).
ShepsCrook
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2003
- Messages
- 9,452
I skipped to the end just because I was reading the same thing over again.
"What?!?! That's BS!"
"They're idiots"
"Athlons can run the same stuff"
Needless to say I got tired of reading that. Even though my thoughts were basically the same regarding the matter. They have little to no right making claims like that. The main thing I can think of off the top of my head that an Athlon cannot perform that an Intel can is the SSE instruction. BUT that is only with the Athlons, not the Athlon XPs.
Considering the computer you bought, aside from the name of the brand, it's a nice computer. (Sorry I'm not a fan of emachines). That AMD64 3200 is a P4 killer. The school should know that if they are even remotely related to technology. So my guess is, they specifically were saying Athlons. Which is technically what they wrote. They didn't write Athlon XPs, Durons (not sure why not), or AMD64s, so people should not be getting as disgruntal about this issue as it seems.
I'm not pro-intel either, all of my systems are AMD, even my Compaq Presario 1245 laptop from back in the day, my first computer I built was a K6-2 400, which I began overclocking right away. But anyways, don't flame me for stating some of the obvious about the posts in the thread, it's lame and I probably won't read any more of this topic.
"What?!?! That's BS!"
"They're idiots"
"Athlons can run the same stuff"
Needless to say I got tired of reading that. Even though my thoughts were basically the same regarding the matter. They have little to no right making claims like that. The main thing I can think of off the top of my head that an Athlon cannot perform that an Intel can is the SSE instruction. BUT that is only with the Athlons, not the Athlon XPs.
Considering the computer you bought, aside from the name of the brand, it's a nice computer. (Sorry I'm not a fan of emachines). That AMD64 3200 is a P4 killer. The school should know that if they are even remotely related to technology. So my guess is, they specifically were saying Athlons. Which is technically what they wrote. They didn't write Athlon XPs, Durons (not sure why not), or AMD64s, so people should not be getting as disgruntal about this issue as it seems.
I'm not pro-intel either, all of my systems are AMD, even my Compaq Presario 1245 laptop from back in the day, my first computer I built was a K6-2 400, which I began overclocking right away. But anyways, don't flame me for stating some of the obvious about the posts in the thread, it's lame and I probably won't read any more of this topic.
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
- Messages
- 32,992
emorphien said:
hehe, and of course, not only in schools...but in the workplace. If a new director comes in and wants a change, even though there is no valid reason for the change, the change WILL occur. And to the person who said a Mac wouldn't appeal to most [H]'ers because you can't tweak the hardware or OS much...hardware is limited but you can tweak the shit out of OS X, its so functional as it is though, most don't want to
ra-odin said:You can tweak it quite a bit (at lot more than the classic Mac OS for sure
I'm primarily a linux guy, I mostly run windows for gaming, so I really like *choice*
Choice is good. I plan to be tinkering with Linux before too long. I havent' used it in a long time but I can work my way around Unix fairly well (including OS X). 'Fore too long maybe I'll be a tri-OS kinda guy. Windows and OS X make me happy.
NewBlackDak
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2003
- Messages
- 1,322
Nasty_Savage said:hehe, and of course, not only in schools...but in the workplace. If a new director comes in and wants a change, even though there is no valid reason for the change, the change WILL occur. And to the person who said a Mac wouldn't appeal to most [H]'ers because you can't tweak the hardware or OS much...hardware is limited but you can tweak the shit out of OS X, its so functional as it is though, most don't want to
You can tweak mac hardware, but it's more like early PC tweaking if anyone remembers back that far.
I've overclocked several mac models. With the exception of 3 they all took some solder work.