Microsoft says Xbox has "lost the console wars."

Marees said:
Ahead of the FTC case today, Microsoft is keen to show Xbox is in third place. Microsoft reveals Xbox had 16% share of console sales in 2021 and 21% of the console install base

https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/1671885020578091008?s=20
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Which is what a lot of people have been pointing out since the lawsuits started. The FTC is hung up on Call of Duty still, for some reason, while the UK and New Zealand think cloud gaming is going to be huge and don't want Microsoft to dominate the market. The reality is cloud gaming is extremely competitive. It's pretty much evenly split between Microsoft, Sony, and NVIDIA right now.
 
Close competition is what this (and any other) industry needs. This is bad news. I knew MS was having issues but I had no idea it was this dreadful. Pretty inexcusable really.
 
Not a surprise worldwide (traveling around you barely see Xbox stuff in most countries), but it's still a pretty strong brand in the US/Canada. Still 3rd place, but a respectable 3rd.
 
Q-BZ said:
Close competition is what this (and any other) industry needs. This is bad news. I knew MS was having issues but I had no idea it was this dreadful. Pretty inexcusable really.
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They really only have themselves to blame. Sony is killing it because they built up an IP library that almost rivals Nintendo. Microsoft have neglected all of their exclusive IP to the point of being meme material, and the release of Redfall just made it even worse for them.
 
They just need to hold out for a few more years so all their studio acquisitions can pay off, providing they actually put out games competitive to Sony's exclusives. It doesn't help much that they're not true exclusives though when they all launch on PC at the same time. But I guess it doesn't matter much to MS when they own the PC platform as well.

I can see a potential flip though with Sony now pushing games as a service, instead of more single player narrative driven games that they've excelled at and is exactly what has put them in the position they're in now. At least personally, I have no desire to play multiplayer, service driven games. And that is why Sony has been my favorite platform for the past several years now. I go where the best games are though and I own all current platforms and a recently upgraded PC as well, so I try not to play favorites. It just happens that Sony has been where all my favorite games have been since 2016 or so.
 

Has Xbox really lost the console wars?​

FTC v. Microsoft day two was all about console wars and whether Xbox is really in a distant third place.​


The second day of the FTC v. Microsoft hearing was really all about one man: Phil Spencer. The Xbox chief took the stand to discuss Microsoft losing the console wars, Sony’s aggressive and hostile competition, and to paint Xbox in a distant third place where it’s struggling to compete.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/...ox-console-wars-sony-playstation-call-of-duty
 
Sony is being a little bit butthurt over Microsoft owning Bethesda and Activision. They are trying to use a monopoly defence. To try for force Microsoft to not make certain titles that did not used to be exclusive exclusive to non Sony platforms.

Exclusivity is stupid anyway the profit on console sales vs game sales is night and day the 500 dollar ps5 costs 430 to make which means there is 70 dollars profit per console sold(i know those numbers are not accurate any more but they are close) and each game is 98% profit per copy
 
Lunas said:
Sony is being a little bit butthurt over Microsoft owning Bethesda and Activision. They are trying to use a monopoly defence. To try for force Microsoft to not make certain titles that did not used to be exclusive exclusive to non Sony platforms.

Exclusivity is stupid anyway the profit on console sales vs game sales is night and day the 500 dollar ps5 costs 430 to make which means there is 70 dollars profit per console sold(i know those numbers are not accurate any more but they are close) and each game is 98% profit per copy
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It isn't though. Sony takes a 30% cut on every playstation game sold.

More Xboxes means more Xbox games sold, MS takes a 30% cut from every game sold by other companies.
 
sharknice said:
It isn't though. Sony takes a 30% cut on every playstation game sold.

More Xboxes means more Xbox games sold, MS takes a 30% cut from every game sold by other companies.
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Bottom line is 2 or 3 game unit sales is more profitable than a single console so why be exclusive to force console sales when you could either timed exclusive or just release on all platforms and ship more units. Overall vs controlling the market forcing support for one console over another
 
Lunas said:
Bottom line is 2 or 3 game unit sales is more profitable than a single console so why be exclusive to force console sales when you could either timed exclusive or just release on all platforms and ship more units. Overall vs controlling the market forcing support for one console over another
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Because you can't collect your 30% share from games sold on other platforms. When it comes to first-party, f Microsoft wants to sell Zenimax titles on PlayStation consoles, then they are effectively paying Sony for the privilege.
 
sharknice said:
More Xboxes means more Xbox games sold, MS takes a 30% cut from every game sold by other companies.
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Why would anyone EVER buy an xbox game. Just pay for a month of gamepass?

Microsoft can only monetize 10 bucks or so from any AAA single player experiences. It's a terrible idea. Sony and nintendo own the space, and will continue because gamepass is moronic.
 
Verge said:
Why would anyone EVER buy an xbox game. Just pay for a month of gamepass?
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Limited library im sure. Every time I glance at what it has, I'm always like "ugh.. meh"... 👎🏼
No wonder they have constant deals for a $1 for first month... its garbage
 
jlbenedict said:
Limited library im sure. Every time I glance at what it has, I'm always like "ugh.. meh"... 👎🏼
No wonder they have constant deals for a $1 for first month... its garbage
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All their first party games come to gamepass, i'll pay for a month of it when starfield comes out, but until then my xbox isn't even hooked up. So they are gonna make what, 10 bucks off of me. They will switch to completely multiplayer season based games or they'll lose a boatload of money.
 
Verge said:
Why would anyone EVER buy an xbox game. Just pay for a month of gamepass?

Microsoft can only monetize 10 bucks or so from any AAA single player experiences. It's a terrible idea. Sony and nintendo own the space, and will continue because gamepass is moronic.
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No idea. Maybe they make up for it by getting a bunch of money from people subscribing that normally wouldn't be buying anything. Maybe it it is actually losing them money and they'll change it or get rid of it in a year.

I barely play any games so I've never really considered getting gamepass. I just play like 4 different games a year and play them a lot, mostly multiplayer.

I played a bunch of Xbox and Xbox 360 but not much after that. I have an Xbox One but I was insanely disappointed with becuase I got it just for Halo Master Cheif Colleciton which was an epic fucking failure. I was a huge Halo fan, played all the games, read all the books, made money in professional tournaments. After MCC I was done with Halo. I played for a week then put it back in it's box and canceled my xbox live subscription which I had had since 2002.

Ever since Halo turned to shit there is no reason to play Xbox. I think that's why Xbox is lagging behind in sales.
Maybe Bethesda will change that. I can play it on PC so that's what I'll do though. Probably not true for most people though.
 
Armenius said:
Because you can't collect your 30% share from games sold on other platforms. When it comes to first-party, f Microsoft wants to sell Zenimax titles on PlayStation consoles, then they are effectively paying Sony for the privilege.
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We are talking about first party titles if Microsoft puts out a first party title and only releases it on micrsofts platform that is 100% their money once development is paid the rest is profit
On other platforms it is whatever deal the two companies cut for example if Microsoft wanted starfield on PlayStation Microsoft would need promise something typically a percentage of the per unit sales. Which is where the 30 comes into play Microsoft is still getting 60% but for the privilege of adding to the dev/support costs to port to say the ps5 that eats into profits too. So the pie is 5% dev costs 2% port support 30% competitors leaving only a mear 53% prodit
 

Microsoft May Exit Gaming Business If Game Pass Subscribers off Console Don’t Increase Enough by 2027​


I can fairly safely say that if we do not make more progress than this off of console, we would exit the gaming business. If this were the outcome, we would -- I don't believe we'd still be in the business.

A majority of our customers are found off of our own hardware, I would hope by earlier than 2030. So, when you asked me if I agreed with this chart that the light green and blue depending on what colors you see there would have to be much larger much earlier. I would say by FY26, '27 that we should be in that position, or we'd have to make a different decision with the business.
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Now, there is reason to believe Spencer may have exaggerated a bit. Microsoft stressed throughout the whole FTC investigation and later in federal court that the acquisition of Activision Blizzard was critical to its plan to grow in mobile and cloud markets. Otherwise, it might as well exit the gaming business.

https://wccftech.com/microsoft-may-...ers-off-console-dont-increase-enough-by-2027/

As per MLID's analysis of the leaked info, there is no chance in hell that Microsoft can expect to achieve those gamepass numbers, so a decision time looms ahead for the xbox gaming division of microsoft


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OUPxytMLWzI&t=492s
 
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Marees said:

Microsoft May Exit Gaming Business If Game Pass Subscribers off Console Don’t Increase Enough by 2027​




Now, there is reason to believe Spencer may have exaggerated a bit. Microsoft stressed throughout the whole FTC investigation and later in federal court that the acquisition of Activision Blizzard was critical to its plan to grow in mobile and cloud markets. Otherwise, it might as well exit the gaming business.

https://wccftech.com/microsoft-may-...ers-off-console-dont-increase-enough-by-2027/

As per MLID's analysis of the leaked info, there is no chance in hell that Microsoft can expect to achieve those gamepass numbers, so a decision time looms ahead for the xbox gaming division of microsoft


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OUPxytMLWzI&t=492s
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I agree with MLID for once. It's literally impossible for them to hit those numbers. If Microsoft wants to exit the gaming business, then why make excuses for it? That is rhetorical, as I know they need to justify it to their shareholders. The only way I see Game Pass for PC and cloud gaining numbers is if they can get more "AAAA" third-party titles on the service the day they launch.
 
Xistentenial crisis:

We need to talk -- says xbox head Phil Spencer

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-w...n-for-the-future-in-business-update-next-week

Xbox Will Reveal More 'About Our Vision for the Future' in Business Update Next Week​

"We're listening and we hear you."​


Spencer is no doubt responding to much of the conversation that took place over the weekend after The Verge reported that the upcoming Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is apparently being considered for a PlayStation 5 release. Per the report, the Indy game would have a brief period of exclusivity on Xbox and PC when it launches in December 2024, then debut on PS5 shortly after.

XboxERA, meanwhile, reported over the weekend that Starfield could be headed to PS5 as well after the Shattered Space expansion debuts later this year. These developments follow previous reports that games like Hi-Fi Rush and Sea of Thieves could be headed to other platforms too.

Taken together, all of these rumors have sent the Xbox community into a tizzy, wondering about the future of the company if it decides to make its exclusives multi-platform. Xbox, after all, has placed its bets on an "ecosystem" of software, rather than the approaches of PlayStation and Nintendo that put more weight on first-party exclusives.
 
I'm hoping this strategy plays out well for MS and Xbox - I am surprised they didn't try out the exclusivity approach, at least for a little bit, after buying all these studios. Still, I never liked the individual closed ecosystem of these consoles, and a step in changing that is a good move imo.

As for the Xbox console itself - I'm hoping they're going make them closer to a PC (ie: a more open platform). Maybe with the rise of popularity of Steam Deck and Windows-based handheld PCs, MS will make their Xbox team focus on Windows as a gaming platform. I would love if MS made a 'gaming mode' as a boot option on Windows that aped the UI design of the 'Xbox OS'.
 
Microsoft never had any good exclusives anyway so making them available on PS5 is the right call
 
polonyc2 said:
Microsoft never had any good exclusives anyway so making them available on PS5 is the right call
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They did before Microsoft decided to take control of all their exclusive IP themselves. Halo and Gears of War are both examples of IP that were superior when they were in the hands of the original developers.
 
I wouldn't say Microsoft had NO good exclusives, but they didn't have many. Of the ones they do have, it's not like many of them are system sellers. Halo and (especially) Gears are products of their time. They're like the gaming equivalent of a Godsmack concert. Forza's great, but it's a little bit niche and in competition with similar games on Sony systems. KI is super niche even for fighting game fans.
 
Flight Simulator would be a good one when talking system sellers (Windows PC/xbox)
 
LukeTbk said:
I think it is the only game I ever heard in recent time of people buying a pc or xbox exclusively for it:
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...to-stimulate-over-2-5bn-in-pc-hardware-sales/
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"... expected to stimulate ... PC hardware sales."

It's an analysis from overpaid researchers making reports that industry insiders want to buy. Was there any follow up that substantiated their predictions? I doubt it because it would be impossible to extrapolate whether or not hardware sales were affected by the release of the game without surveying the customers explicitly. Otherwise, all they have is correlation.

No doubt there are hardcore simulator fans out there that spend a lot of money on hardware for their hobby, but a $2.5 billion boost in sales?
 
Armenius said:
but a $2.5 billion boost in sales?
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At 2.2 millions players, that would be $1150 by player. A lot of them would have needed to change PC (many people have PC only for Flight Sim and considering the age of the previous entry would have been way too old to run 2020) and they would count the whole cost here.

Personally I know people that updated their father PC other bought them an XboxX just for that and that only things they run on them, not sure I could say that for any other recent game ( I do not know anyone that bought a pc or xbox just for Starfield for example).

As for the correlation because of the supply issue and overall giant boost in hardware that happened in the era could end up having been hard to say anything about anything.
 
AMD, 16%, salivation begins...

Sometimes, it's a perspective thing.

Now, if Xbox had less than 1%....
 
You know, even though I'm now in my 40's with teenage kids and I very rarely even play video games it's posts like these that make me proud to be a veteran of the previous console wars both here and elsewhere. As someone who called this over a decade ago it makes me proud to know my hours of analysis and debate was indeed correct.
 
next-Jin said:
You know, even though I'm now in my 40's with teenage kids and I very rarely even play video games it's posts like these that make me proud to be a veteran of the previous console wars both here and elsewhere. As someone who called this over a decade ago it makes me proud to know my hours of analysis and debate was indeed correct.
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They were a strong contender during gen 7. I don't think anybody could have foreseen Microsoft prioritizing the console being a cable box replacement in gen 8. That and Don Mattrick running his mouth prior to the One's launched is what killed Microsoft's console business and they have never been able to recover. They forgot the cardinal rule while Sony was strictly adhering to it: Content is King. Rather than leading with compelling games, they tried to expand the user base by pandering to non-gamers.
 
I don't want consoles to fail. Competition is good. But must-have exclusives sell consoles ... and Microsoft has utterly failed in that department for years now. It also doesn't help that 99% of Xbox "exclusives" are also on PC. Now they're talking about making Xbox exclusives multi-platform. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were trying to kill the Xbox on purpose, but in reality, it's just terrible leadership.
 
Shoganai said:
I don't want consoles to fail. Competition is good. But must-have exclusives sell consoles ... and Microsoft has utterly failed in that department for years now. It also doesn't help that 99% of Xbox "exclusives" are also on PC. Now they're talking about making Xbox exclusives multi-platform. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were trying to kill the Xbox on purpose, but in reality, it's just terrible leadership.
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I think it's an overcorrection plus putting all their gaming under the Xbox umbrella. Microsoft doesn't differentiate between console and other gaming platforms anymore.
 
Armenius said:
They were a strong contender during gen 7. I don't think anybody could have foreseen Microsoft prioritizing the console being a cable box replacement in gen 8. That and Don Mattrick running his mouth prior to the One's launched is what killed Microsoft's console business and they have never been able to recover. They forgot the cardinal rule while Sony was strictly adhering to it: Content is King. Rather than leading with compelling games, they tried to expand the user base by pandering to non-gamers.
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Gen 7 yeah but towards the end with Kinect there were signs. Loads of people said it was going to be a problem for the One and like you said it effectively killed their momentum.

What’s dumb is that even with that horrible launch they could have strived and been competitive. They just never made the investments that needed to be made with their in house studios.

What they needed was their own Shuhei Yoshida. Who funny enough Sony has now relegated to a demotion if I’m not mistaken. MS just thought they could buy everyone and everything.
 
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