M.2 mounting options? Heat under GPU? Heatsinks?

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phantommaggot

Weaksauce
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Hey guys,
I'm finally upgrading my old 4790k, z87 ITX system.
I've picked up a ASRock b560 MATX Pro RS because it has 3 m.2 slots. One is PCIe Gen5x4, Another is Gen4x4 and the last one is Gen4x2.
The Gen5x4 is positioned above the GPU, the gen4x4 is positioned about slot 2~3, under the gpu.
I plan to run Windows 10 off the 1tb drive and use the 4tb for extra games and files.
How bad do GPUS cook the drives under them? About how much space is usually there for a heatsink? Which drive do you guys think I should put where?
They're both PCIe Gen3 but I'm sure lane count matters. I remember not too long ago GPUS weren't using all the bandwidth of PCIe3 and 4 dropped... now we're looking at 5? Would Gen 3 drives even need all 4 lanes of PCIe4?
Between a gaming drive and an OS drive, which one would see more heat? I'm currently running a 1tb samsung 850 msata drive that's stuck on the back of my motherboard. Pretty sure I've had it heat throttle a time or 3 in my little node 304.
 
I wouldn't worry about SSD heat so much. PCIe 3 SSDs don't generate a lot of it, and normal gaming just isn't going to work the drive that hard. Just make sure you have reasonable airflow over it and it'll be fine. All the reports from a few years ago of SSDs overheating were from stress tests that didn't reflect real-life usage.

You seem to be confusing PCIe generations and lanes. They're independent of each other, and both will affect the available bandwidth. Per-lane, PCIe 4 doubles the bandwidth of PCIe 3. Wikipedia has a table. If the SSDs are PCIe 3, the mainboard will fall back to running at that speed for the sockets they are connected to.
 
I have a pair of 980 Pro's, one above the GPU and the other down at the bottom right,
Looks like 5* difference between them at the moment.
GPU says it's at 39* C

1702286612559.png
 
BlueLineSwinger said:
I wouldn't worry about SSD heat so much. PCIe 3 SSDs don't generate a lot of it, and normal gaming just isn't going to work the drive that hard. Just make sure you have reasonable airflow over it and it'll be fine. All the reports from a few years ago of SSDs overheating were from stress tests that didn't reflect real-life usage.

You seem to be confusing PCIe generations and lanes. They're independent of each other, and both will affect the available bandwidth. Per-lane, PCIe 4 doubles the bandwidth of PCIe 3. Wikipedia has a table. If the SSDs are PCIe 3, the mainboard will fall back to running at that speed for the sockets they are connected to.
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Well I just felt like if I put my 4tb drive in the PCIe4x2 slot it may be slower than if it was in a 4x4 slot even if it's an older PCIe3 drive running through a faster slot. If that makes sense.
Guess I'll just run it in the 4x4 slot and see how it goes.
 
The Mobo I have had heatsinks already on it so i put all of them under those, it might not affect the performance too much but i might help the longevity of the drive's lifespan. I didn't use a heatsink on my last system and it ran fine. It might just be a preference at this point.
 
SomeoneElse said:
The Mobo I have had heatsinks already on it so i put all of them under those, it might not affect the performance too much but i might help the longevity of the drive's lifespan. I didn't use a heatsink on my last system and it ran fine. It might just be a preference at this point.
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Mine has a heatsink for the drive mounted above the GPU but not for the one under it or the one on the bottom corner of the board.
I'm still waiting on parts but when my gpu gets here I'll try to measure between the gpu and M.2 and see how much space I have. The m.2 heatsinks are so cheap it's almost silly to not get one.
 
So if you can only fit one with a heatsink on it than maybe get the 4TB SN850X drive and call it a day? Although the SN850X 4TB version have modules on both sides so that is to be considered also.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
So if you can only fit one with a heatsink on it than maybe get the 4TB SN850X drive and call it a day? Although the SN850X 4TB version have modules on both sides so that is to be considered also.
Click to expand...
Issues with temps on NVMEs is almost always with the controller and not the flash so having chips on both sides should not be a problem since the controller will be on the side with the heatsink.

My experience is limited due to having only PCI-e 3.0 NVMEs but with the motherboard heatsink on my Pioneer 1TB it doesn't even remotely get hot, ever as long as there is at least some airflow. 4.0 drives tend to run hotter but unless they are one of the earlier drives which ran really hot it still shouldn't be a problem. 5.0 drives are a different beast altogether. You won't catch me buying one because of the heat problems they have. You wouldn't be able to have one near a GPU anyway since most of them have huge heatsinks from the factory just to keep them cool enough to not burn up. They wouldn't fit.

Will an NVME even with a heatsink run hotter next to a GPU? Yes. With decent airflow it shouldn't be a problem.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
So if you can only fit one with a heatsink on it than maybe get the 4TB SN850X drive and call it a day? Although the SN850X 4TB version have modules on both sides so that is to be considered also.
Click to expand...
I already have the drives. I can fit 3.. I have a p5 1tb and a p3 4tb.
Both are PCIe3.
 
SmokeRngs said:
5.0 drives are a different beast altogether. You won't catch me buying one because of the heat problems they have. You wouldn't be able to have one near a GPU anyway since most of them have huge heatsinks from the factory just to keep them cool enough to not burn up. They wouldn't fit.
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If that is the case, how many people could use one in their system? Not many, I'll guess, with current motherboard designs. Something here has to give. I'm guessing that motherboard layouts have to change, and that maybe there will be motherboard heatsinks with active cooling.
 
phantommaggot said:
Hey guys,
I'm finally upgrading my old 4790k, z87 ITX system.
I've picked up a ASRock b560 MATX Pro RS because it has 3 m.2 slots. One is PCIe Gen5x4, Another is Gen4x4 and the last one is Gen4x2.
The Gen5x4 is positioned above the GPU, the gen4x4 is positioned about slot 2~3, under the gpu.
I plan to run Windows 10 off the 1tb drive and use the 4tb for extra games and files.
How bad do GPUS cook the drives under them? About how much space is usually there for a heatsink? Which drive do you guys think I should put where?
They're both PCIe Gen3 but I'm sure lane count matters. I remember not too long ago GPUS weren't using all the bandwidth of PCIe3 and 4 dropped... now we're looking at 5? Would Gen 3 drives even need all 4 lanes of PCIe4?
Between a gaming drive and an OS drive, which one would see more heat? I'm currently running a 1tb samsung 850 msata drive that's stuck on the back of my motherboard. Pretty sure I've had it heat throttle a time or 3 in my little node 304.
Click to expand...
For a drive under a GPU, I would use a heatsink. If the mobo does not provide one, then you need something which is really low profile, like these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08G823MLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08YRSZPH8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Note that dual sided drives + aftermarket heatsinks, can cause clearance issues with the space between the mobo and the backside of the drive. As you have the extra thickness of the backside chips + the back side of the heatsink.

In terms of general heat issues for drives----you will have to read reviews of specific drives. There is no general trend, some drives are a lot hotter than others. Even some of the newest drives. IMO, Techpowerup has the best review data for SSD thermals.
 
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When would the benefits of going 10000mbps vs the 7mbps make a difference? when transferring massive files? or huge folders with smaller files but thoasands of them? Is it strictly for transferring data only meaning has nothing to do with gaming? or the responsiveness of apps and games and programs in general? Like only transfter speeds are affected and nothing else?
 
The biggest reason to use a slot other than the one underneath the GPU (if your motherboard allows for it without taking a lane/speed penalty) is just to avoid having to remove the GPU any time you need to check on the underlying SSD.

Heat would only be a problem if you were to have a really thin motherboard heatsink underneath the GPU and/or you were using a PCIe Gen 5 SSD. otherwise, most of the heat issue can be resolved by having a nearby fan redirect some air over that vicinity of the motherboard. As an example, in the separate, raised M.1 named NVME slot on my X670e Ace will normally have a Gen 4 SSD idling at around 38-41C when the board is on an open air test bench. However, with a fan, such as a Noctua A25x120, Nidec GT AP14, Phantek T30, or equivalent, blowing air in its vicinity the idle temperature drops to 27-30C.

If you're using a Gen 3 drive, I wouldn't bother wasting the Gen 5 slot, especially if using cuts your GPU down to x8 lanes. Depending on your motherboard, you should also see which slots share bandwidth with other things like front and rear USB ports or SATA.

EDIT to add, I didn't realize it was an AMD board since my eyes just focused on the retired chip and I though you were sticking with Intel. You are likely fine using the Gen 5 slot, but won't get much benefit due to the comparative slowness of your SSD.

Unless PCIe 5 drives get a lot more thermally efficient, I can vouch from personal experience that the Crucial T700 4TB needs a giant slab of metal, active cooling from being in the path of a 120mm fan, or a water block to avoid almost all risk of throttling.
 
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My M2. slot immediately under the GPU does get hotter than my other M.2 slots, but it still maxes out around 60c, which is...whatever. Honestly it doesn't make a big enough difference to matter.
It's a 4TB SN850X and I utilize it heavily, but other things interfere with the data rate when I'm running a maxed out GPU well before the temperature could potentially throttle things.
 
I think the m.2 format which was intended for mobile devices has pretty much reached its limits for fast I/O devices due to thermals.

High performance SSD, have faster controllers. (Typically multi-core ARM processor), ii.) more flash channels. (Some controllers have 16 channels).
Realistically, they are 10-15W devices now. Not the 6-7w ones in the PCIe 3.0 era.
 
evilmedic said:
I think the m.2 format which was intended for mobile devices has pretty much reached its limits for fast I/O devices due to thermals.

High performance SSD, have faster controllers. (Typically multi-core ARM processor), ii.) more flash channels. (Some controllers have 16 channels).
Realistically, they are 10-15W devices now. Not the 6-7w ones in the PCIe 3.0 era.
Click to expand...

They'll eventually just do what the video card market is currently doing. - Bundling oversized, unwieldy heatsinks with supporting kickstands to reduce the chance of the weight of the M.2 heatsink ripping the slot off the motherboard.
 
Motherboard makers will try to build even bigger pieces of metal onto the boards to get even more margin.
I had issues with reusing a Samsung 960 Pro as a boot drive on a new x670e motherboard without heatsink.The system will slow down shortly after booting up because thermals. The asmedia / x670 chip set running hot didn’t help. Solved the issue by pointing a 120x25 Fan at it.
 
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