Linux market share passes 4% for first time

[ChadD]

I think this is more copium. This is an assumption that Lakados made as well. He's as likely to be correct as he is to be incorrect.

Its not a provable number in anyway no. I also don't really care. Sure if Linux hits some magic number maybe more official support form companies such as you say Adobe happens. For the most part though ya if its 2% or 6% or 10% it isn't going to much change my life or the life of most Linux users.
End of the day Valve has ensured Linux is getting some real world gaming support. Which I have no doubt will grow, at some point a deck 2 might give it even a bigger bump. Especially if the Decks desktop mode makes more improvements. As for the adobe type stuffs of the world... eh whatever its not like Linux is really going to be capturing the artist type customers from Apple. MS couldn't really capture them either.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

A statement that isn't actually true at all regarding modern packaged distro's. I use Linux every day, no faffing around whatsoever.

Your statement is absolutely accurate provided installing and using Linux all you want to do. If you want to use Linux to use other programs, which is what an OS is supposed to be for, that's where the problems start.

 

[Kongar]

I've been using linux and various distros as a toy/hobby/experiment since it came out in the 90s - but never super seriously, and frankly I've never been a stud at how it works. I often would install a distro, not be able to get something to work, use it for a while for some things, but ultimately rely on my windows install for "it just works"

But about 3 years ago, it became my daily driver without me trying, and honestly I almost never use windows anymore. It's still there, but the use cases have 100% reversed. Linux really has come a long way and is arguably better for people who are a bit more technical than the average user. I've been pretty happy with Arch and it's derivatives - right now I'm rocking EndeavorOS and I like it quite a bit.

 

[uOpt]

This is still having one other counting problem: I for example use Linux and FreeBSD for anything serious, but most of my web browsing is done on my sofa with a Macbook. Of course I don't have a solution for counting the actual installs that are actively being used, just not for web browsing.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

I've been using linux and various distros as a toy/hobby/experiment since it came out in the 90s - but never super seriously, and frankly I've never been a stud at how it works. I often would install a distro, not be able to get something to work, use it for a while for some things, but ultimately rely on my windows install for "it just works"

But about 3 years ago, it became my daily driver without me trying, and honestly I almost never use windows anymore. It's still there, but the use cases have 100% reversed. Linux really has come a long way and is arguably better for people who are a bit more technical than the average user. I've been pretty happy with Arch and it's derivatives - right now I'm rocking EndeavorOS and I like it quite a bit.

I think one massive release by a company that can use some analytics on how those installations are used could go a massive way to raising Linux up. If a company could manage to get a large enough install-base for Desktop Linux that they could really work on software compatibility other distros would adopt those features if they could and Linux could see a real renaissance. I know everyone hates telemetry, but I believe a lack of telemetry really hurts Linux.

It feels like Windows is getting less and less stable as years go by. I'm glad I have a Mac for grownup stuff, Windows is for games.

 

[cjcox]

Windows is for games.

Some might argue (and probably would be right) that "gaming consoles" are for games.

I think if you're going to go through the expense of having a computer system, ideally it needs to be for "more" than just gaming. IMHO.

With that said, if that means "only Linux" (for example) to you, I'm ok with that.

 

[Gideon]

I would love for a operating system that actually challenges windows, but Linux has never been super user friendly and without that, it will never become anything more than a niche program for the average user.

 

[Axman]

I would love for a operating system that actually challenges windows, but Linux has never been super user friendly and without that, it will never become anything more than a niche program for the average user.

This one is recommended for gaming/Windows software and I've been playing around with it versus Debian and Arch: https://nobaraproject.org/

 

[DukenukemX]

Its not a provable number in anyway no. I also don't really care. Sure if Linux hits some magic number maybe more official support form companies such as you say Adobe happens. For the most part though ya if its 2% or 6% or 10% it isn't going to much change my life or the life of most Linux users.

It does though, because the more people use Linux then the more consideration companies have in dealing with Linux. Adobe might realize that now is the time to port their software to Linux. Games might get native ports instead of depending on Proton. New hardware features that are almost always exclusive to Windows for a while, might also initially include Linux. It's not like 4% will change anything, but 6% or maybe 10%? MacOS had 10% for years and got more software support than Linux.

I would love for a operating system that actually challenges windows, but Linux has never been super user friendly and without that, it will never become anything more than a niche program for the average user.

Linux is already more user friendly than Windows and MacOS, and in other ways it's a lot worse. You want to print? On Linux you just plug in the printer and it just works. No software or setup is needed. Installation is easier than Windows because it doesn't ask you to log into your online user account. You have more access to software on Linux distros than Windows and MacOS combined. Other than Nvidia, you don't need to install drivers for anything.

On the other hand you won't find many native ports to your favorite applications like Photoshop, Fusion 360, and Maya. You also need to install Linux which while still simpler than Windows or MacOS, but still needs to be done. Game performance is generally slower than Windows, though not always. Support for features like HDR is not great. Support for peripherals like Razer mice isn't good either. Linux needs a lot of work before it's user friendly for the average user.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Your statement is absolutely accurate provided installing and using Linux all you want to do. If you want to use Linux to use other programs, which is what an OS is supposed to be for, that's where the problems start.

Once again, no such problems here. Perhaps in 2015 your statement would have held true, but not in 2024. Most of the software I use daily is available cross platform, Wine and associated software has matured to the point that a number of Windows native applications I use run fine under Linux, and few people actually 'need' MS Office and Photoshop.

What an OS should do is stay out of my way, not pester me about the use of Microsoft accounts, and have a nice fast file system - All three points are a problem under Windows.

 

[uOpt]

It does though, because the more people use Linux then the more consideration companies have in dealing with Linux. Adobe might realize that now is the time to port their software to Linux. Games might get native ports instead of depending on Proton. New hardware features that are almost always exclusive to Windows for a while, might also initially include Linux. It's not like 4% will change anything, but 6% or maybe 10%? MacOS had 10% for years and got more software support than Linux.

Linux is already more user friendly than Windows and MacOS, and in other ways it's a lot worse. You want to print? On Linux you just plug in the printer and it just works. No software or setup is needed. Installation is easier than Windows because it doesn't ask you to log into your online user account. You have more access to software on Linux distros than Windows and MacOS combined. Other than Nvidia, you don't need to install drivers for anything.

On the other hand you won't find many native ports to your favorite applications like Photoshop, Fusion 360, and Maya. You also need to install Linux which while still simpler than Windows or MacOS, but still needs to be done. Game performance is generally slower than Windows, though not always. Support for features like HDR is not great. Support for peripherals like Razer mice isn't good either. Linux needs a lot of work before it's user friendly for the average user.

Linux is user-friendly, it is just not beginner-friendly.

Razer is garbage in the best of cases.

 

[Twisted Kidney]

Once again, no such problems here. Perhaps in 2015 your statement would have held true, but not in 2024. Most of the software I use daily is available cross platform, Wine and associated software has matured to the point that a number of Windows native applications I use run fine under Linux, and few people actually 'need' MS Office and Photoshop.

What an OS should do is stay out of my way, not pester me about the use of Microsoft accounts, and have a nice fast file system - All three points are a problem under Windows.

Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, and I'm technically adept enough to use it. As soon as you say WINE you've moved passed what 90+% of desktop PC users are willing to do. The bottom line is that using Linux daily means dealing with the Google manual, searching the internet to find instructions to perform the multiple steps required to do what would be a simple, single step task with Windows.

The truth of it is that Linux hasn't grown to 4% because it's getting so much better, it's simply not. It's just that Windows is getting worse enough that people who can use Linux are more willing to put up with the extra work. Linux needs to get vastly better for semi-beginners but not complete beginners. I still say a Linux box is the best machine you can give Granny for email and web surfing, shit will run forever, it won't need an upgrade and the security is fantastic.

 

[auntjemima]

A statement that isn't actually true at all regarding modern packaged distro's. I use Linux every day, no faffing around whatsoever.

You aren't faffing NOW, but I'm sure you were at the beginning. As someone who flops between windows and Linux periodically, I have to configure tons more in Linux after installation than windows.

I'm not against Linux, but the fanboys love to claim "it's so simple! I use it every day!". Yeah, now. Think back to the initial installation and setup. Think back to finding program alternatives and ensuring they work with your version of Linux. There are times I install a program on Ubuntu 20.2 (for example) and along comes 20.3 and it either no longer works properly or at all.

Quick, tell me that windows programs do this too! Which is just ridiculous. There are windows 98 programs I can still install in windows 10. Anything from the XP range is almost a guarantee to work. There are some here or there, but in my experience MOST programs that don't ship with the distribution break on each new kernel. *.deb files are hit or miss for installing properly. If you wait too long to update your distro it no longer gets updates from the distribution server.

Using Linux is each once things are set up. I will give you that. But I can google any program I want and download an exe and boom, it's installed and working. I would say 8/10 times I download a Linux program it need configuration just to install.

Phew.

 

[uOpt]

I'm not against Linux, but the fanboys love to claim "it's so simple! I use it every day!". Yeah, now. Think back to the initial installation and setup. Think back to finding program alternatives and ensuring they work with your version of Linux. There are times I install a program on Ubuntu 20.2 (for example) and along comes 20.3 and it either no longer works properly or at all.

Linux is not simple, especially not when you want to run programs compiled for a different operating system. Running programs from a different OS is advanced use of any OS.

Ubuntu is crazy. They do experimental crap to the disadvantage of their users all the time.

 

[Axman]

Ubuntu is crazy. They do experimental crap to the disadvantage of their users all the time.

Ubuntu, Mint, Pop, they've all kind of gone into their own thing and IMO Debian and Arch have taken the lead. Mostly because they have stacks and stacks of documentation.

 

[Mazzspeed]

You aren't faffing NOW, but I'm sure you were at the beginning. As someone who flops between windows and Linux periodically, I have to configure tons more in Linux after installation than windows.

My last install of KDE was 4 years old, having been transferred from PC to PC. Only recently did I upgrade my SSD and perform a fresh install of KDE Neon 6.0.0, and I had almost everything up and running as it was before in an evening ready for work the next day. The only thing left to install was my games. TBH, I was never faffing about. I first tried Linux in a VM in about 2009, and about the only real difference compared to Windows was the installation of software. However, even back then many items of software were packaged as .deb's and available via PPA's: It took about a day for me to get my head around .deb's and PPA's vs .msi or .exe files under Windows, after that everything made sense. Then I gave up on Linux for a while until ~ 2012 when I installed Linux Mint on bare metal and decided to really give Linux a go, not long after that I found myself using the Linux box more than my Windows box. From there I distro hopped for a bit when Gnome devs locked down their UI (which was something I don't approve of) and switched to KDE Neon.

Linux is Linux, it's not hard to use - it's simply not a Windows clone.

I'm not against Linux, but the fanboys love to claim "it's so simple! I use it every day!". Yeah, now. Think back to the initial installation and setup. Think back to finding program alternatives and ensuring they work with your version of Linux. There are times I install a program on Ubuntu 20.2 (for example) and along comes 20.3 and it either no longer works properly or at all.

Don't use interim releases. Stick to LTS releases and all is fine, I stick to LTS releases and I've never encountered this issue. Upon updating to a newer LTS release (every five years) the package manager disables any PPA related to the old release, but PPA's for the latest release are always ready and available - add the PPA and you're good to go.

Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, and I'm technically adept enough to use it. As soon as you say WINE you've moved passed what 90+% of desktop PC users are willing to do.

If you think installing Wine is difficult, I question your claim. Wine is simple to install, once installed, you double click the .exe or .msi and it opens the same way it does under Windows.

You claim to be an Apple user. Ironically, in many cases, there's no longer anything straightforward about installing software under MacOS with all of it's permissions settings - I support Mac users and they can't even get AnyDesk installed unless I physically access the device and do it myself. Then you have the uninstallation of software, with every application seemingly having a different process to uninstall software with the uninstall option usually hidden deep within nested menu's.

Less and less software is a simple drag and drop to install under MacOS.

Linux is not simple, especially not when you want to run programs compiled for a different operating system. Running programs from a different OS is advanced use of any OS.

Compiling software from source is incredibly rare these days, the only software I use that I compile from source is SyncTERM. Most software either installs via script or is packaged as a .rpm, .deb, Appimage, Flatpak or Snap - All of which is supported seamlessly by most packaged distro's (except perhaps vanilla Ubuntu with their Snaps agenda). Even my Brother printer drivers were installed quickly and easily via Brother's supplied script.

Support for peripherals like Razer mice isn't good either. Linux needs a lot of work before it's user friendly for the average user.

This actually isn't true regarding Razer devices. I run a Razer keyboard and a Razer Mouse. Polychromatic controller allows for the creation of macro's as well as the switching of features such as DPI/Poll rate via an icon in the system tray and a drop down menu, or via a GUI application that's very simple to use. Polychromatic controller also allows for the controlling of all RGB effects.

In order to map mouse buttons, I use Input Remapper. It has a nice GUI interface and allows me to map my two side mouse buttons to move forwards and backwards through my virtual workspaces.

Ubuntu is crazy. They do experimental crap to the disadvantage of their users all the time.

This I agree with. Ubuntu, with their Snaps agenda, have actually made Linux harder for the average user by refusing to install .deb's via the GUI by default until the user installs Gdebi.

 

[DukenukemX]

Linux is user-friendly, it is just not beginner-friendly.

Razer is garbage in the best of cases.

The problem is that a lot of people have their bias and don't want to migrate over to another OS. The reason why Linux Mint is so popular is because it mimics Windows pretty well. The divide you see between Windows and MacOS is because people have gotten so used to using these OS's that they don't want to leave their comfort zone. For beginners they need Linux to come preinstalled and for everything to just work, including Windows software.

You aren't faffing NOW, but I'm sure you were at the beginning. As someone who flops between windows and Linux periodically, I have to configure tons more in Linux after installation than windows.

Like what? Would like some examples.

I'm not against Linux, but the fanboys love to claim "it's so simple! I use it every day!". Yeah, now. Think back to the initial installation and setup. Think back to finding program alternatives and ensuring they work with your version of Linux. There are times I install a program on Ubuntu 20.2 (for example) and along comes 20.3 and it either no longer works properly or at all.

I've never had that happen with LTS. Going from Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 has given me problems. They're about to release Ubuntu 24.04 and I might delay that update for a while. For me it was Kodi and Pronterface, which didn't work off the repository perfectly. For Kodi it was an updated dependency that introduced a bug, and Pronterface just didn't work. Pronterface works now but it does through Flatpak.

Quick, tell me that windows programs do this too! Which is just ridiculous. There are windows 98 programs I can still install in windows 10. Anything from the XP range is almost a guarantee to work. There are some here or there, but in my experience MOST programs that don't ship with the distribution break on each new kernel. *.deb files are hit or miss for installing properly. If you wait too long to update your distro it no longer gets updates from the distribution server.

Program compatibility is the worst problem to deal with on Linux. A lot of this is due to dependencies, which need something done. For now we depend on AppImage or Flatpak to work around this issue, and they don't always work well either.

Using Linux is each once things are set up. I will give you that. But I can google any program I want and download an exe and boom, it's installed and working. I would say 8/10 times I download a Linux program it need configuration just to install.

Phew.

Ideally you shouldn't be downloading programs at all. Windows and MacOS have a weak software store because they don't offer most useful software on there. VLC for example is not on the MacOS App Store, but on Ubuntu you can just use the Software Manager or "sudo apt install vlc". It's inconvenient and risky to need to download software from an outside source. We know Linux has issues, but are they worth dealing with? For some people the answer is yes.

 

[Mazzspeed]

The problem is that a lot of people have their bias and don't want to migrate over to another OS. The reason why Linux Mint is so popular is because it mimics Windows pretty well.

The reason Linux Mint is so popular is because people claim it mimics Windows so well. Realistically, KDE mimics Windows better than Mint does, and KDE Neon actually keeps up with the LTS point release schedule - So no running a 5.x kernel under Mint when LTS releases are up to kernel 6.5.0-25.

I've never had that happen with LTS. Going from Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 has given me problems. They're about to release Ubuntu 24.04 and I might delay that update for a while. For me it was Kodi and Pronterface, which didn't work off the repository perfectly. For Kodi it was an updated dependency that introduced a bug, and Pronterface just didn't work. Pronterface works now but it does through Flatpak.

...

Program compatibility is the worst problem to deal with on Linux. A lot of this is due to dependencies, which need something done. For now we depend on AppImage or Flatpak to work around this issue, and they don't always work well either.

I have to say, I haven't experienced an unsolvable dependency issue since I was running Linux Mint. That was back in around 2012-2013, but TBH Mint hasn't improved much since then - Certain issues I was experiencing running Mint back in 2012-2013 are still a problem today. If you're adding the correct PPA for your release and the devs supporting your distro are keeping up with the LTS schedule, you shouldn't be experiencing any dependency issues.

 

[DukenukemX]

The reason Linux Mint is so popular is because people claim it mimics Windows so well. Realistically, KDE mimics Windows better than Mint does, and KDE Neon actually keeps up with the LTS point release schedule - So no running a 5.x kernel under Mint when LTS releases are up to kernel 6.5.0-25.

KDE is doing a better job now, but Cinnamon has been doing it for years. KDE is more attractive now which is why I maybe switch to a distro with KDE Plasma. Also Linux Mint 21.3 EDGE now uses a 6.2 kernel because it was getting pretty stupid. You need a new kernel just to be able to use new hardware, which was stupid to keep an old kernel for so long.

...

What can I say, but Linux does have regressions. I think since Ubuntu 18.04 was the last time I use could use a PPA to install the latest Dolphin emulator, and the PPA owner just didn't care past certain versions of Ubuntu. The latest version off the Ubuntu package manager is 4.0, which is 10 years old. Flatpak maintains the latest version but for a while I had to compile it. If you're using version like 22.10 or 23.10 then you're asking for trouble since these version of Ubuntu don't have much support for very long and stuff is known to be broken, which is what I think auntjemima was referring to. It's not like Ubuntu makes that clear, so somebody who doesn't know would download the "latest" version of Ubuntu without realizing this is probably meant more for testing than using. You don't see any other distros based on Ubuntu use anything but the LTS release, for a reason.

I have to say, I haven't experienced an unsolvable dependency issue since I was running Linux Mint. That was back in around 2012-2013, but TBH Mint hasn't improved much since then - Certain issues I was experiencing running Mint back in 2012-2013 are still a problem today. If you're adding the correct PPA for your release and the devs supporting your distro are keeping up with the LTS schedule, you shouldn't be experiencing any dependency issues.

My issues are probably more unique since I tend to do not normal stuff with my Linux setup. The issue with Kodi is because I was using a Jellyfin addon for Kodi which causes it to crash after playing a second video, due to a bug in a dependency. How many use Kodi with the Jellyfin addon? An update eventually fixed the issue. I also 3D print and Pronterface didn't work off the Ubuntu repository, and nobody cared. It was another dependency issue, but ultimately I just used the Flatpak version. Either that or they eventually updated it and fixed the issue. There's always a solution to fixing these issues, but it can make you run in circles. It is however a lot better than it was in the past but this is mostly due to Flatpak.

 

[Lakados]

KDE is doing a better job now, but Cinnamon has been doing it for years. KDE is more attractive now which is why I maybe switch to a distro with KDE Plasma. Also Linux Mint 21.3 EDGE now uses a 6.2 kernel because it was getting pretty stupid. You need a new kernel just to be able to use new hardware, which was stupid to keep an old kernel for so long.

What can I say, but Linux does have regressions. I think since Ubuntu 18.04 was the last time I use could use a PPA to install the latest Dolphin emulator, and the PPA owner just didn't care past certain versions of Ubuntu. The latest version off the Ubuntu package manager is 4.0, which is 10 years old. Flatpak maintains the latest version but for a while I had to compile it. If you're using version like 22.10 or 23.10 then you're asking for trouble since these version of Ubuntu don't have much support for very long and stuff is known to be broken, which is what I think auntjemima was referring to. It's not like Ubuntu makes that clear, so somebody who doesn't know would download the "latest" version of Ubuntu without realizing this is probably meant more for testing than using. You don't see any other distros based on Ubuntu use anything but the LTS release, for a reason.

My issues are probably more unique since I tend to do not normal stuff with my Linux setup. The issue with Kodi is because I was using a Jellyfin addon for Kodi which causes it to crash after playing a second video, due to a bug in a dependency. How many use Kodi with the Jellyfin addon? An update eventually fixed the issue. I also 3D print and Pronterface didn't work off the Ubuntu repository, and nobody cared. It was another dependency issue, but ultimately I just used the Flatpak version. Either that or they eventually updated it and fixed the issue. There's always a solution to fixing these issues, but it can make you run in circles. It is however a lot better than it was in the past but this is mostly due to Flatpak.

I have not used a Linux desktop environment since the dreaded Ubuntu Gnome 3 rollout…
I only use it on servers though so … I barely count. But it’s good to see they are improving.

 

[Mazzspeed]

What can I say, but Linux does have regressions. I think since Ubuntu 18.04 was the last time I use could use a PPA to install the latest Dolphin emulator, and the PPA owner just didn't care past certain versions of Ubuntu.

With the advent of Flatpak, many developers simply adopted the Flatpak standard as it's universal across distro's, as opposed to packaging the application to suit individual distro's. TBH, this isn't a bad thing, and Flatpaks are simple to install.

An update eventually fixed the issue. I also 3D print and Pronterface didn't work off the Ubuntu repository, and nobody cared.

The only way you're going to get the latest software out of the Ubuntu repo's is if the software is packaged as a Snap and actively maintained by the developer. If you want the very latest version of whatever package you're running, best to avoid the Ubuntu repo's. With the advent of Flatpak, considering most packaged distro's can access Flathub, the problem of outdated software in your distro's software store is quickly becoming a non issue.

EDIT: You can even get Wine in a Flatpak now, which is fantastic. When it comes to my Linux desktop, I tend to go for a mix of Windows/MacOS:

 

[uOpt]

With the advent of Flatpak, many developers simply adopted the Flatpak standard as it's universal across distro's, as opposed to packaging the application to suit individual distro's. TBH, this isn't a bad thing, and Flatpaks are simple to install.



The only way you're going to get the latest software out of the Ubuntu repo's is if the software is packaged as a Snap and actively maintained by the developer. If you want the very latest version of whatever package you're running, best to avoid the Ubuntu repo's. With the advent of Flatpak, considering most packaged distro's can access Flathub, the problem of outdated software in your distro's software store is quickly becoming a non issue.

EDIT: You can even get Wine in a Flatpak now, which is fantastic. When it comes to my Linux desktop, I tend to go for a mix of Windows/MacOS:

Begs the question, do we really need both Flatpak and Snaps?

 

[Axman]

Begs the question, do we really need both Flatpak and Snaps?

SHH! Don't ask questions!

 

[OutOfPhase]

Begs the question, do we really need both Flatpak and Snaps?

Well, if you have 2 snaps and a twist, it's pretty much the same thing.

Okay, it's been a long week.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Begs the question, do we really need both Flatpak and Snaps?

Because that's the nature of open source, it's impossible to lock everything down to the one way of doing things, and persistence in doing so usually results in failure. Gnome keep trying it, and their desktop sucks unless you add a stack of extensions that usually break every major update; while Ubuntu have tried it with Snaps and as a result Flatpak appears to be the more popular option.

When it comes to open source, over time it's ultimately the community that will decide on which standards will succeed and which standards will fail.

 

[uOpt]

Because that's the nature of open source, it's impossible to lock everything down to the one way of doing things, and persistence in doing so usually results in failure. Gnome keep trying it, and their desktop sucks unless you add a stack of extensions that usually break every major update; while Ubuntu have tried it with Snaps and as a result Flatpak appears to be the more popular option.

When it comes to open source, over time it's ultimately the community that will decide on which standards will succeed and which standards will fail.

Yeah, but is there actually momentum behind Snaps except from Cononical?

 

[Mazzspeed]

Yeah, but is there actually momentum behind Snaps except from Cononical?

No. Hence the reason why I say it's ultimately the community that will decide what standards succeed and which standards will fail.

 

[uOpt]

No. Hence the reason why I say it's ultimately the community that will decide what standards succeed and which standards will fail.

My point is that Canonical levers things on their own power without any visible appreciation by the community.

 

[Nobu]

My point is that Canonical levers things on their own power without any visible appreciation by the community.

That's because they're a corporation and they sell customer support, not the OS. They do things which make their job easier, and make it open source by the way. Sometimes those things are adopted by other communities, but often it's just something neat but weird that ubuntu has.

 

[DukenukemX]

With the advent of Flatpak, many developers simply adopted the Flatpak standard as it's universal across distro's, as opposed to packaging the application to suit individual distro's. TBH, this isn't a bad thing, and Flatpaks are simple to install.



The only way you're going to get the latest software out of the Ubuntu repo's is if the software is packaged as a Snap and actively maintained by the developer. If you want the very latest version of whatever package you're running, best to avoid the Ubuntu repo's. With the advent of Flatpak, considering most packaged distro's can access Flathub, the problem of outdated software in your distro's software store is quickly becoming a non issue.

EDIT: You can even get Wine in a Flatpak now, which is fantastic. When it comes to my Linux desktop, I tend to go for a mix of Windows/MacOS:

Flatpak has a reputation for making applications slower. Particularly loading speed.

Begs the question, do we really need both Flatpak and Snaps?

Snaps is disabled by default on Linux Mint due to it being owned by Canonical. Flatpak is preferred because it's open, while Snaps really isn't.

 

[kac77]

KDE is doing a better job now, but Cinnamon has been doing it for years. KDE is more attractive now which is why I maybe switch to a distro with KDE Plasma. Also Linux Mint 21.3 EDGE now uses a 6.2 kernel because it was getting pretty stupid. You need a new kernel just to be able to use new hardware, which was stupid to keep an old kernel for so long.

KDE is doing better job now. But there's something about Gnome's simplistic but polished mantra that I find wonderful in Fedora. I get bleeding edge Gnome 3 updates but real stability that I find lacking in Ubuntu. Ubuntu focuses less on the DE and more on services that compliment the professional services Canonical provides at the detriment of other packages.

I've tried KDE many times, but the bleeding edge features/options above stability style they have isn't something I want. I stopped using KDE when Amarok was secretly deleting my music library. Never went back since.

 

[Algrim]

KDE is doing better job now. But there's something about Gnome's simplistic but polished mantra that I find wonderful in Fedora. I get bleeding edge Gnome 3 updates but real stability that I find lacking in Ubuntu. Ubuntu focuses less on the DE and more on services that compliment the professional services Canonical provides at the detriment of other packages.

I've tried KDE many times, but the bleeding edge features/options above stability style they have isn't something I want. I stopped using KDE when Amarok was secretly deleting my music library. Never went back since.

I used to really like Gnome and despised KDE way back when but when Gnome 3 came out I became a huge XFCE fan. My current desktop is KDE but XFCE has just enough graphical goodies to not suck and not be bloated at the same time.

As far as market share is concerned, I'm glad it's getting more popular but the lack of a defined binary standard is going to guarantee it's not going to be embraced by people that don't like the discomfort of change.

 

[mullet]

Flatpak has a reputation for making applications slower. Particularly loading speed.

Snaps is disabled by default on Linux Mint due to it being owned by Canonical. Flatpak is preferred because it's open, while Snaps really isn't.

Don't you mean Snaps are slower, that has been my experience, is why I dumped Ubuntu and switched to mint. Not a fan of snaps.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMfqCzbSmQU

 

[DukenukemX]

As far as market share is concerned, I'm glad it's getting more popular but the lack of a defined binary standard is going to guarantee it's not going to be embraced by people that don't like the discomfort of change.

As far as I know, Linux doesn't have a problem with binaries. As long as you have the dependencies then you can run it. A .deb or .rpm are just installation types, not binaries. The problem is the dependencies, which for distros like Debian and Ubuntu are usually fixed on a specific version. This is why it can be a problem because if you happen to download a pre-compiled executable made for a newer or older version of the dependency you have in your distro, then it refuses to work. This is where AppImage and Flatpak come into play because they come with all the needed dependencies so this isn't a problem, but this does increase the file size of the application. This is where a rolling distro like Arch comes into play, because it just updates everything. Everything is the latest version of whatever it is, which mitigates this issue. But, if you've ever updated anything you know that just cause it's new doesn't mean it's stable. This is why so many people choose to be on a Debian or Ubuntu based distro, but this also means applications do tend to be older from the repository. If you want the new features of Handbrake then you need to compile it yourself, or find a PPA where someone compiled it for you. PPA's are kinda sketchy since a person did this and you have to trust them not to put crypto mining crap or other malicious things into the program. AppImage isn't bad and works mostly like Apple's .dmg, but again they tend to be larger files. This is why Flatpak is popular because it usually has the latest applications and also comes with everything needed, and it can be easily downloaded through the software manager. All this to deal with the dependency issue on Linux that still exists to this day. Linus Torvalds even said something about this years ago, and he said that "Valve will save the Linux Desktop" due to this issue. You can bet that as a distro you'll want Steam games to work properly.


View: https://youtu.be/Pzl1B7nB9Kc?si=AVGBoyqtpP_n3jPE

 

[MavericK]

I've started messing around with Proxmox, which means I've been having to learn more about Linux than I ever really wanted to.

 

[Mazzspeed]

My point is that Canonical levers things on their own power without any visible appreciation by the community.

Which doesn't always result in success. Canonical's Mir display server is a great example of Canonical pushing their agenda to the detriment of Canonical. Yes, Mir has been merged into Wayland, but the fact remains that Canonical were pushing an agenda that ultimately failed.

Flatpak has a reputation for making applications slower. Particularly loading speed.

This may have been the case in the early days, these days applications running as Flatpaks are within a margin of error compared to applications running as .deb or .rpm's. I run a number of applications installed as Flatpaks and I encounter no performance issues:

 

[kac77]

Which doesn't always result in success. Canonical's Mir display server is a great example of Canonical pushing their agenda to the detriment of Canonical. Yes, Mir has been merged into Wayland, but the fact remains that Canonical were pushing an agenda that ultimately failed.

Oh God MIR .

They were warned before they even tried it that creating a display server was no easy task and trying to get programmers together that were good at barebones programming was not going to be easy. Even if you had them you had to have an adoption rate that would make all of the developers program for your platform, which they didn't have. MIR was exactly what I thought it would become, a big waste of resources that Canonical could have literally dumped anywhere else for a much bigger return, like creating extensions which it ultimately decided to do. Had they done this from the beginning Linux as a whole and Gnome would have been heads and shoulders ahead of anything else even Windows (yes they spent that much money developing MIR).

 

[emphy]

Don't you mean Snaps are slower, that has been my experience, is why I dumped Ubuntu and switched to mint. Not a fan of snaps.

Yup.

Funny anecdote: ubuntu's software manager comes pre-installed as the snap version. Back when I was still on xubuntu the manager was so slow starting up that by the time one could browse the library I usually had already forgotten what piece of software I wanted to look up.

Minty is nowadays my distro of preference. My biggest beef with it is that it is very easy, even for the most experienced linux user, to miss that the software manager has flathub as a source enabled by default. One can always choose between the repo and flathub version, but in the software manager you see two pieces of the same software with very little indications of what the difference is between them.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Comparing software running as apt vs software running as Flatpak. Firefox and VLC are both installed via apt, everything else is installed as Flatpak:


View: https://youtu.be/0oltxRHOWRI

 

[ManofGod]

Some snap versions of programs are just as fast as their apt and flatpak versions. However, many snap version programs are not even close, such as Steam.