You do know that Unreal 5 has a native Linux build and source available from Git you can compile and develop for already right?
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.2/en-US/linux-development-quickstart-for-unreal-engine
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Linux market share passes 4% for first time
- Thread starter DukenukemX
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https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.2/en-US/linux-development-quickstart-for-unreal-engine
I'm not looking for an argument. All my games work, I don't care for Fortnite or Tim Sweeney, and I don't see anyone under r/linux_gaming complaining about the fact they can't play Fortnite.
Although I will admit I have the EGS installed to play Death Stranding, that's only because I got it for free.
auntjemima
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EGS gives away tons of games throughout the year. I have way more there than Steam, all free over the years.
The EGS also makes Tim Sweeney very little money.
https://www.ign.com/articles/the-ep...snt-profitable-nearly-five-years-after-launch
I do, it's great, but respectfully, I'm not sure how it would change what I mentioned.
Two things can be simultaneously true: Epic has talented and competent developers, some of who are linux users and run their development environment atop linux; and their CEO can be short-sighted, flippant, and at times even childish when it comes to policy and strategy. These only scratch the surface:
With the success of Steam Deck, someone asks if Epic has any plans for their own console:
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From what I understand, the vast majority of freebie hoarders don't ever play the games. The game is the dopamine hit you got adding a free game to the library; after that it's forgotten about in most cases.
Not that that's a bad thing, but "bribe people to come to my party" isn't great strategy for creating enduring relationships. Steam and GOG have diehard customer bases in part because those platform holders understood the value of feature set + building goodwill over time. Sweeney seems to have the "smart but anti-social, asshole programmer" personality type that is unlikely to ever get it. The outsized successes of Fortnite and Unreal Engine happened more in spite of him than because of, and mask his shortcomings to an extent. IMO projects like EGS could've been way more successful with better leadership.
I realize all this has been beaten to death...
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I was happily surprised to get a Wayland session by default when I jumped to 6 - with no major issues at all so far.
KDE 6 (and 5 at the end, really) is really, really good. I think it's definitely the best desktop experience on Linux. It's super polished. My laptop is an AMD 7840u system and it's been a super good experience.
Edit: I'm on Endeavor so I guess I use Arch, btw
auntjemima
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I guess I've just never cared who the owners or CEOs of these companies are. If the game is cheaper on a different platform, that's where I buy it. I feel no requirement to choose one company over another because of tweets.
I agree with the dopamine comment, though. I don't particularly feel that way, just cool to see a free game sometimes when I log in there to play. My comment about having more games there than Steam is probably a bit skewed, considering I only have 3 games on Steam, iirc.
auntjemima
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Yes, KDE Plasma is another full desktop environment.
auntjemima
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Thanks bff
DukenukemX
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I'm in favor of getting the games working under Linux, no matter how bad the games are. With enough market share then maybe even games like Roblox will get ported to Linux.
Roblox are actively blocking their software from running under a Wine environment with absolutely no good reason for doing so. This isn't an anticheat issue, this is a 'no soup for you' issue. Like Tim Sweeney's attitude towards anything Linux based (which holds a certain irony considering Tim Sweeney's breakthrough regarding PC gaming), I don't see that attitude changing any time soon.
As stated earlier, I wouldn't be at all surprised if money was passing from OS vendor to developer under the table in an attempt to actively discourage Linux adoption.
auntjemima
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Even before this current change it was never supported. There's the issue in itself.
Secondary to that if the discussion on WHY a company would go out of their way to add code to prevent Linux from working. There has to be an end game point to spend money and programmers time on preventing something.
I had Roblox running perfectly under Bottles. I had no intention of playing it, I did it purely as proof of concept.
People need to understand that considering many PC titles are based on console ports, the term 'native' when it comes to gaming is becoming somewhat irrelevant. As for the 'why', I've provided my reasoning. Sure, it may be tinfoil hat worthy - But the fact certain developers aren't interested in a growing untapped user base, when growth quarter over quarter in order to appease shareholders appears insatiable regarding modern business, is somewhat questionable.
auntjemima
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The company actively didn't support it was my point. There are numerous ports throughout the years for other games via emulation and cracks within windows, so of course there are ways out there to make things work, but to not support it vocally and THEN actively prevent it is a weird one.
To your last point, most companies that employ anti-cheat software claim that the ease of using a custom kernel makes it impossible to prevent cheating. Thoughts? Any merit to that?
They didn't have to, it ran fine using tools readily available under Linux - Which is the point of such tools. As a gaming platform, Roblox really isn't terribly sophisticated.
Roblox aren't using kernel level anticheat.
auntjemima
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Which is why I said "most companies".
Is there merit to this? That any random person out there can compile their own kernel and get past cheat protection software?
Wine and associated software works by translating API calls that would normally interact with the NT kernel to a POSIX kernel, you can't actually emulate the NT kernel itself. Therefore, if the anticheat implementation used is client side kernel level anticheat intended to run under the NT kernel, there's no way to make it work under Linux.
There's a magnitude of ways people work around client side kernel level anticheat under Windows itself, developers trying to claim that Linux is somehow 'more hackable' is nothing more than deflection. If devs wanted their client side kernel level anticheat to work under Linux and actually put in the effort to do so, it would be as effective as it is under Windows (which isn't even close to 100% effective).
Epic isn’t a hardware company though, and if they did what would they do different that Valve, ASUS, or one of the others isn’t already doing?
Epic still deals with the whole “Their owned by China” thing so even if they did make one I expect it would go over ‘really well’
But at least UE5 is designed and fully capable of supporting a complete Linux native game and deployment path, it’s just on developers to do something with it if they are so inclined.
DukenukemX
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Wayland and X11 are like layers between the OS and the UI, which is KDE, XFCE, Cinammon, Gnome3, and etc. X11 is like old, like really old. You can think of KDE and XFCE as UI's you can switch between freely, just like on Android. As far as I know, there's no limitation if you wanted to installed another UI and switch to it. I could install KDE Plasma on Linux Mint if I wanted to, and then just log out and switch to it before logging in.
View: https://youtu.be/R-N-fgKWYGU?si=qqNn6kBQPqt-__JC
I'm not sure why Robox hasn't ported their game over to Linux, but I'd image it's because they don't want to support it. If the developers are activity shutting down Linux users then they'll have their hands full. I'm sure eventually Grapefruit or Vinager will find work arounds for this. The last time I tried to get Roblox working when they blocked Linux was install the Android version through WayDroid. At some point they'll have to port it. It isn't good for Linux because things are already problematic for Linux users. Just adds another reason not to use Linux.
Valve and Epic have two different goals. Valve wants to keep their dominance in the PC gaming market by expanding their store over to Linux, because Microsoft could literally shut them down with a simple update. Epic is trying to be like Valve by owning a store that they hope will dominate the market, so Linux for them is just not worth the resources. if Epic does make a console, it'll be interesting to see if they use Windows, which is what I expect them to do. So far Valve's Steam Deck seems to have advantages over their Windows counterparts.
cjcox
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Since I date back to the age of "native ports of games to Linux", not sure we'll see that again.
I mean, the Linux community is so good at making foreign (as in, "violent" in nature) things run on it... it's amazing.
However, there are are "things" that do run natively, but not any of those "big titles". And, thanks to the work of the Linux community, those popular titles "run" as if they were native ports and again, I stand amazed.
I mean, the Linux community is so good at making foreign (as in, "violent" in nature) things run on it... it's amazing.
However, there are are "things" that do run natively, but not any of those "big titles". And, thanks to the work of the Linux community, those popular titles "run" as if they were native ports and again, I stand amazed.
DukenukemX
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It's the same reason why Apple users won't see many native ports of games to MacOS, because it isn't worth it for most developers. MacOS is currently at 16%, which is like 4X more than Linux. It'll be a while before anyone considers porting games to Linux again. You do see a lot of Indie titles getting ports, but yea no AAA games. I'm less worried about getting games to work on Linux because Lord Gaben will keep working at it until the day he dies. Kinda want my Adobe software and things like Fusion 360 working on Linux. I kinda get Fusion 360 working, until it breaks from an update and then I need an obscure fix to get it working again. Photoshop also works, but again not without issues from time to time.
Counterstrike 2 was released natively on Steam. Some report a performance drop with the Vulkan renderer, personally my performance at native 4k has always been great - Some Windows users run the Vulkan renderer to stop the random crashing present under the DX renderer.
Under Steam Linux actually edges in front of MacOS. Last I checked, when you consider native as well as Proton compatible titles, there's vastly more games available under Linux than MacOS.
Armenius
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I think Apple dropping 32-bit support from MacOS has a lot to do with that.
But I think not really selling anything more powerful than an Intel UHD for 7 years had more to do with it.
Twisted Kidney
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Apple really did let Mac twist in the wind for a long damned time.
I'm glad to see some growth in Linux, I just hope somebody can make a more unified desktop version for more casual users. Right now Linux is the best way to make a useful computer into a frustrating hobby.
Apple did, but Intel wasn't helping. Look at Intel Mobile Gen 8-10 and tell me they were good with a straight face. Battery life was terrible, they were hot, required active cooling, and when patched to deal with the vulnerabilities their performance tanked, it wasn't until shortly before Apple announced the M1 that the microcode updates from Intel got pushed so performance there didn't completely die. By that stage was too late, ultimately I see Apple having moved to ARM as a good thing, I mean they shook the shit out of the market and started a new mobile platform race so yay to them for that.
I mean I can't know for certain it wasn't always coming but the M1 certainly made the existing AMD and Intel laptop solutions look pretty terrible in comparison.
cjcox
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Or perhaps better, "It's another year of Linux!!" (which is a good thing)
A unified desktop isn't going to happen regarding open source software that people can freely modify and distribute. Unifying anything generally means locking a system down to one way of achieving a goal, which completely goes against the notion of 'freedom' regarding free and open software. Gnome devs try to lock the Linux desktop down to their way of doing things, as a result I switched to KDE.
I've been using Linux full time for a good 6 years now, and at no time have I felt that my useful computer was turned into a frustrating hobby. All operating systems have issues from time to time, with Windows certainly being no exception in such regard. The Microsoft Community support forums are full of frustrated Windows users and equally frustrating and ineffective solutions to problems by volunteers of all things.
Axman
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It's more like it's finally the year Microsoft makes Windows too creepy to deal with.
Intramural squabbles are nothing new to UNIX. Remember the days of Solaris vs. AIX vs HP-UX?
Too much ego among the players to ever get a "consensus" on that unified desktop.
Say what you will about Windows, it is a real benefit to users to have a single platform for like gazillions of programs. If you need some niche/niche software,chances are that there is a Windows program. And that doesn't require compiling from sources or futzing around with install scripts.
DukenukemX
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Twisted Kidney
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I'm fully aware of that, Linux' greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. I'd love to see a decent Steam OS for broad release but I'm just not sure there's any reason at all for Valve or any other company to do it.
Linux on the desktop kind of turns your machine into a box where all you do if faff about with Linux. It's too bad.
This is a win and all. But 4% was always low.
I have always said the web site visit sample things... aren't all that accurate in regards to Linux.
I mean first what do you count as Linux?
Secondly the venn diagram of Linux users, and users who have their browser mask their OS has a sizable overlap. lol
I have always said the web site visit sample things... aren't all that accurate in regards to Linux.
I mean first what do you count as Linux?
Secondly the venn diagram of Linux users, and users who have their browser mask their OS has a sizable overlap. lol
A statement that isn't actually true at all regarding modern packaged distro's. I use Linux every day, no faffing around whatsoever.
DukenukemX
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It's 1/4 of Apple's MacOS's 16%. More than MacOS on Steam. This means that more people are finding Linux usable as a daily OS. Still problematic for not having applications from Adobe and many others, plus hardware support for new features is not going to be working, but it does work for most people.
Nothing is accurate when it comes to statistics but the trend is going up.
There's a lot of devices that run Linux that we probably don't count. I really doubt a lot of people are using their Steam Decks to browse the web, and ChromeOS doesn't count as Linux even though it runs the Linux kernel. Pretty much anyone running a GNU/Linux distro would probably count as "Linux". This one shows Linux 64-bit for me.
I think this is more copium. This is an assumption that Lakados made as well. He's as likely to be correct as he is to be incorrect.
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cjcox
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Also, not too long ago, same numbers == AMD (<10%).
Realize that AMD for all the "rah rah" hasn't broke 25% even on the desktop CPU space and of course much lower than that CPU overall. And even lower on overall GPU marketshare.
We choose to "lift high" who we choose to lift high.