LCD Televisions with 4:4:4 Subsampling and low Input Lag.

[Glotttis]

Anyone knows anything about LG's new LS5600 series? Its lineup includes a 37", so i'm very interested if it can be used as a PC monitor.

I really wanted to buy LG 32LS5600 (still do), but there's complete lack of info about them. I read review of LM6700 (or some other similar LG from 2012) and it seems most LGs tend to have very high input lag, also I'm not sure about 4:4:4. After going through 3 HDTVs I'm beginning to lose hope in finding one that's fit to use as a PC monitor. I just don't get it why is it so hard for manufacturers to make hdtvs PC use friendly. Guess I'll have to go back to "good" old TN.

 

[Racer_J]

I really wanted to buy LG 32LS5600 (still do), but there's complete lack of info about them. I read review of LM6700 (or some other similar LG from 2012) and it seems most LGs tend to have very high input lag, also I'm not sure about 4:4:4. After going through 3 HDTVs I'm beginning to lose hope in finding one that's fit to use as a PC monitor. I just don't get it why is it so hard for manufacturers to make hdtvs PC use friendly. Guess I'll have to go back to "good" old TN.

It's because more people don't know, don't care, or aren't bothered by things others are. Three TV is nothing though. I went through six or so (though I did find one on the second try but it and its exchange were defective and EoL). I think thepoohcontinuum went through around six different makes/models as well.

You may want to look at the Dynex DX-32L240A13. If it's anything like the DX-32L230A12 was, it may suite your needs. However, the DX32L230A12 snickered for around $350ish and the DX-32L240A13 stickers for around $280ish so there may have been some cutbacks made. I haven't had a chance to test it yet though and it will be a while before I can do so.

 

[neodark088]

Is there even an HDTV that has a good response time like TN panels with minimal input lag and great viewing angles?

 

[SJetski71]

Is there even an HDTV that has a good response time like TN panels with minimal input lag and great viewing angles?

The TV's that are most "competitive" with pixel response and viewing angles are TV's that use LG's S-IPS panels and Panasonic's IPS-alpha panels. Input lag and 4:4:4 will vary.

Sorry i don't know of any 2012 models that i would recommend, but the first post in this thread has a few 2011 models listed, and Poohcontinuum's thread has a few more.

 

[Racer_J]

Is there even an HDTV that has a good response time like TN panels with minimal input lag and great viewing angles?

I don't think you're going to see anything much lower than 15 ms on a TV when it comes to response time on the White>Yellow and White>Red PixPerAn chase test and, around 20 ms on the White>Blue PixPerAn chase test. At least not using your naked eyes and PixPerAn. Even with proper testing equipment though I doubt it will get much lower. Given that TN panels allegedly go down to two (as the testing procedure/criteria/quoted type of response time/etc. vary) it's just going to be something you will have to independently test (via your eyes/equipment) to see if you notice it or not.

This was why I was trying to avoid asking you to look for specific things/flaws. Once you see them, you will see them on every single display that exhibits them.


When it comes ot viewing angles, in my experience A-MVA has the best vertical angles and S-IPS has the best horizontal angles. Every single display out there right now is a "pick your poison" scenario. You'll have to decide what you can live with versus what you can't live without and it's a terrible, terrible game we all have to play.

 

[neodark088]

I've already setup my personal expectations that HDTV's will have more ghosting as compared to a TN monitor, the smearing is very tolerable on my end, still the entire experience with this HDTV is way better as compared to my TN monitor, when I am so immersed in the game that I dont even see the smearing unless I stop for a moment and test for it.

 

[neodark088]

The TV's that are most "competitive" with pixel response and viewing angles are TV's that use LG's S-IPS panels and Panasonic's IPS-alpha panels. Input lag and 4:4:4 will vary.

Sorry i don't know of any 2012 models that i would recommend, but the first post in this thread has a few 2011 models listed, and Poohcontinuum's thread has a few more.

Would be interesting to see if the 32LM6200 comes with an S-IPS panel along with a low input lag and 4:4:4 color. Though I would be interested in getting that HDTV when its out but edge lit so unpredictable with flashlighting and clouding.

EDIT:

I wanna clarify something about the 16-235 and 0-255 color modes, Obviously 0-255 is the best settings for a desktop, but Im not sure how it should be for video playback.. selecting 0-255 hides a lot of artifacts in black areas including blockiness and such but makes the entire scene darker crushing some details while 16-235 reveals those lost details but also shows issues in dark areas, for example a 720 copy of "Game of Thrones" i can see alternating banding lines in dark scenes.. though I am not sure if this is caused by the source video as well.

 

[Racer_J]

Would be interesting to see if the 32LM6200 comes with an S-IPS panel along with a low input lag and 4:4:4 color. Though I would be interested in getting that HDTV when its out but edge lit so unpredictable with flashlighting and clouding.

EDIT:

I wanna clarify something about the 16-235 and 0-255 color modes, Obviously 0-255 is the best settings for a desktop, but Im not sure how it should be for video playback.. selecting 0-255 hides a lot of artifacts in black areas including blockiness and such but makes the entire scene darker crushing some details while 16-235 reveals those lost details but also shows issues in dark areas, for example a 720 copy of "Game of Thrones" i can see alternating banding lines in dark scenes.. though I am not sure if this is caused by the source video as well.

If you're seeing blocks, I would venture to guess it's the source material. That's why everyone calibrates to a specific disc/measurements. Any differences after that are the fault of the source material and people not adhering to what they should have adhered to. That having been said, encodes from the internet are notorious for being blocky as people don't know what they hell they are doing, someone is trying to keep the file size small, it was meant for a very small screen, or the legitimate version offered by the copyright/distribution holder is a piss poor bandwidth version like Cartoon Network and Hulu offer.

On the issue of 0-255 versus 16-235, video is 16-235 and the desktop is 0-255. I usually leave everything on the PC set to 0-255 and then adjust the brightness and contrast appropriately in the video playback options of MPC HCE if it's clipping improperly. If the TV has a "black level" setting (which on LG TVs switches from 0-255 to 16-235) I will select the one that looks the best and then adjust the contrast and brightness settings to the proper clipping levels in a specific profile on the TV. In other words, you can't just select 16-235 or 0-255 and call it a day when it comes to video playback. In my experience, you have to make adjustments to the brightness and contrast afterwards and possibly the gamma. If your video played of choice lacks these adjustments, your video card's control panel will have a section that will only affect video playback. Keep in mind though that it may not work on certain players or if a certain renderer (MadVR) is being used.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

Yea the wide angle and the lack of a 'viewing cone" is only advantageous on an IPS if you are sitting really close or you have multiple people sitting at various locations in the room from further away. At the same time though, despite not being able to do that and having a "viewing cone", A-MVA and S-PVA have far, far better black levels. Yet IPS panels are starting to get used in more and more TVs which means more and more consumers either genuinely want the increased horizontal viewing angles over lower black levels or, they are being "convinced" that they do from marketing.

I've had A-MVA, S-PVA, e-IPS, and S-IPS and while I love the lack of the "viewing cone" on IPS (and consequently no gamma change on everything not in the "viewing cone") I miss the black levels that S-PVA and especially A-MVA offer. I like most people had to decide which tradeoff I wanted. I went with IPS since it lacks the "viewing cone" and has "acceptable" black levels during the day/with bias lighting. At night though or in a a room with no light source other than the display, the black levels are really bad especially if there is no way to adjust the backlight level since it is always to high.

Yea all IPS panels glow. There is the general glow that takes place on the entire screen which is most noticeable on black levels and then the IPS glow which is the white/purple/orange/similar colours that takes place at the more extreme viewing angles. Factor in that most IPS displays (or rather the "affordable" ones) are also edge lit and prone to backlight bleeding, flashlighting, and clouding and they quickly loose some of their appeal.

For me, a CCFL IPS is where it's at for a monitor that will serve as a "TV" as there are very few options for an A-MVA monitor that can handle the response times properly. However, a CCFL A-MVA is where it's at for a TV that will serve as a "monitor" as I would rather have the better black levels in this scenario as the letterbox bars stand out on an IPS panel. It's really all about the intended usage and the compromises someone is willing to make.

So after reading over your past posts Racer_J, I am still considering on getting an LG 37LK450 because of the plethora of inputs, vast picture adjustments, and (most importantly) low input lag. But since I will be buying it from an online retailer, I'm pretty certain that I'll lose the panel lottery and wind up with VA panel (don't know the type). In case it matters, I will be using this TV mainly for Dish Network HD programming, Blu-rays/DVDs, and PS3 gaming. The USB Media Player will get plenty of use as well via downloaded videos.

Since I will not be using the 37LK450 as a PC monitor 99% of the time, am I fine with a VA panel or should I still be diligent in getting one with an S-IPS panel regardless? Is the low input lag the exact same on the VA panel when compared to its S-IPS cousin?

 

[Racer_J]

So after reading over your past posts Racer_J, I am still considering on getting an LG 37LK450 because of the plethora of inputs, vast picture adjustments, and (most importantly) low input lag. But since I will be buying it from an online retailer, I'm pretty certain that I'll lose the panel lottery and wind up with VA panel (don't know the type). In case it matters, I will be using this TV mainly for Dish Network HD programming, Blu-rays/DVDs, and PS3 gaming. The USB Media Player will get plenty of use as well via downloaded videos.

Since I will not be using the 37LK450 as a PC monitor 99% of the time, am I fine with a VA panel or should I still be diligent in getting one with an S-IPS panel regardless? Is the low input lag the exact same on the VA panel when compared to its S-IPS cousin?

Sorry, have been tied up. I think the input lag on the A-MVA and the S-IPS are the same or similar. It's the black levels, viewing angles, and response times that vary from panel type to panel type. AS far as I understand it, input lag is the result of the other hardware like the mainboard/multiple inputs/firmware/etc. I don;t recall having read anything over at AVS about the input lag being different between the panel types on the LK450 series but, the thread is excessively long and a majority of people were strictly after the S-IPS panel for PC usage or for the fact they were getting a 32" 1920x1080 S-IPS panel for around $400 or less.

The A-MVA may ghost some on games and it may not. Some of them tend to be better than others but, the response time will be slower than S-IPS and TN. If an A-MVA is going to have response time issues it will be in dimly lit games where there are a lot of black levels present.



As for what you should get, it really just depends on your overall usage and needs. Given that you're going to mostly be watching movies on it, I would personally want the A-MVA panel. However, VA panels have a "viewing cone" and everything outside of it will be at a different gamma which will make those areas "lighter" as if you were making the gamma numerically higher. You won't have that on a S-IPS (barring the potential of IPS glow in the corners but that will change the hue and not the gamma). Of course the black levels will be substantially better on the A-MVA. You'll have to decide what you want the most and what you are willing to give up in the process. Personally, I still find the choice between the two panels to be a PITA as there are things I adore about them both and things I would rather not have. That may change though when the 120 HZ A-MVA panels hit later this year but even then, they will likely still have the "viewing cone" as that has nothing to do with the refresh rate.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

Sorry, have been tied up. I think the input lag on the A-MVA and the S-IPS are the same or similar. It's the black levels, viewing angles, and response times that vary from panel type to panel type. AS far as I understand it, input lag is the result of the other hardware like the mainboard/multiple inputs/firmware/etc. I don;t recall having read anything over at AVS about the input lag being different between the panel types on the LK450 series but, the thread is excessively long and a majority of people were strictly after the S-IPS panel for PC usage or for the fact they were getting a 32" 1920x1080 S-IPS panel for around $400 or less.

The A-MVA may ghost some on games and it may not. Some of them tend to be better than others but, the response time will be slower than S-IPS and TN. If an A-MVA is going to have response time issues it will be in dimly lit games where there are a lot of black levels present.



As for what you should get, it really just depends on your overall usage and needs. Given that you're going to mostly be watching movies on it, I would personally want the A-MVA panel. However, VA panels have a "viewing cone" and everything outside of it will be at a different gamma which will make those areas "lighter" as if you were making the gamma numerically higher. You won't have that on a S-IPS (barring the potential of IPS glow in the corners but that will change the hue and not the gamma). Of course the black levels will be substantially better on the A-MVA. You'll have to decide what you want the most and what you are willing to give up in the process. Personally, I still find the choice between the two panels to be a PITA as there are things I adore about them both and things I would rather not have. That may change though when the 120 HZ A-MVA panels hit later this year but even then, they will likely still have the "viewing cone" as that has nothing to do with the refresh rate.

Thanks for the insight Racer_J! And don't worry about the latency of your post, I know we all have lives outside of the forums.

I will inevitably just buy one online and risk the panel lottery since none of my local retailers have any in stock anymore. It being last year's model and all. The only 37LK450 I could find was an open box item at a Best Buy about an hour away from me. After checking the product info on that TV, it has almost 4,000 hours on it (and counting). But it did have a Y in the product code (S-IPS) printed on the sticker on the side of the TV though. Sigh...

Still, the LK450 series seems to get great reviews from various customers online, regardless of the panel inside of it. Of course, they probably don't know or care enough to check what panels they received, unlike the rest of us videophiles. Your previous posts about A-MVA panels (is this what LG uses?) seems to somewhat ease my purchase decision as well. But the constant insistence of LG's S-IPS panel on the AVS forums still ring in the back of my mind. Unless I play the "return-and-exchange" game a lot with any online retailer, I may just have to settle for what I can get at this point.

 

[Racer_J]

LG used both a S-PVA and an A-MVA in the LK450 series but they had different product codes and the S-PVA version was pretty rare IIRC. In fact, I'm not even sure it was sold in the US. I don't recall what the S-PVA product code was but, the A-MVA code should be "CUSD" (at least that's what was typically reported as being in the CUSD).

Damn you. You made me dig back through this thread a bit and I saw all my pictures and screen shots of the A-MVA and S-PVA sets I had. Just when I had convinced myself the black levels on this U2311H weren't so bad lol . . .


Back to the LK450 though, pretty much everyone gushes over it including the owners of the A-MVA version. I'm going to go against the grain with AVS on this one though. The insistence on the S-IPS is based on the cost ratio or PC usage. I can't see anyone there of all places picking S-IPS over A-MVA when videos are the main source especially when they will be the main source 99% of the time. People go on and on about black levels there more than anywhere else and there is a substantial difference between S-IPS and A-MVA. As irritating as the "viewing cone" can be on VA panels, it's less distracting than black levels that don't even remotely get close to matching the black bezel on IPS. Granted, e-IPS without a backlight adjustment has soured my opinion of IPS panels a bit but, if I weren't using a display as a monitor at least 50% of the time I don't even think I would consider using IPS. That's just me though as black levels are crucial to my viewing enjoyment of videos. Some people are willing to trade the black levels to get rid of the "viewing cone" though.


Anyway, I don't think you should let AVS sway you on this purchase unless you are specifically after a 32" S-IPS display which is "dirt cheap" and has a ton of calibration options. The insistence on the S-IPS variant has nothing to do with I/PQ (when used as a TV) and has everything to do with personal preference (or usage as a monitor). Again, it's really a matter of usage versus personal desires and it's up to each of us to decide what those are. To further illustrate that, there are scenarios where I would take (and have taken) IPS over VA and vice versa.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

Yeah, they seem to have a hard on for those S-IPS panels at the AVS forums. If they're using it solely as a PC monitor then I understand, but still. 4:4:4 is great and all, but not all of us will make constant use of it in the long run. As long as the picture quality and low input lag is the same on the VA, then I should be OK with whatever 37" panel I end up with. This way I don't piss off online retailers by exchanging a bunch of otherwise good TVs.

A side note on those 32LK450's, I researched that only the initial batch that were manufactured in the beginning of 2011 had S-IPS panels. The rest of the 32 inchers after that (unless I'm wrong) were all VA panels. So it's kind of funny that AVS members looking for a "dirt cheap" IPS panel TV decided on the 32LK450 when most of them in that size didn't have the aforementioned panels. But I'm certain they already knew this.

P.S. When you said "I/PQ", did you mean Image and Picture Quality?

 

[Racer_J]

I think the 32LK450 were still getting IPS panels even when they were EoL. I saw them at a local Best Buy as late as March of this year (possibly April as well). It's possible they were from an early run but I don't think it's very probable.

If you're not using the display for the PC, 4:4:4 doesn't really hold to many advantages (barring text in games) but the VA variant of the 32LK450 will do it should you ever desire to hook up a PC to it. I didn't read anyone complaining about the I/PQ (image/picture quality) on the VA variant and it would actually be better as far as black levels go. I'm also fairly confident there will not be any increase in the input lag times but the IPS and VA variants do use different mainboards as they are different panel types.


Again it all boils down to personal preference but, I don't think you will be disappointed if you wind up getting the VA panel. Of course, I'm a bit biased to A-MVA from my experience with the DX-32L230A12 even though I never got a chance to put it through the ringer of game testing.

 

[Godmachine]

While I love my Samsung A650 40 inch and am very happy with it. It does ghost with blacks , not terribly but as expected being a S-PVA panel. That being said its contrast is inky black , better than many newer (but cheap) LED-LCD's I've seen with bleeding all over the place. Its also quite uniform and unless I jump the brightness and backlight up a few notches I don't see any clouding/bleeding from the backlight at all.

Is there anything in the 32-40 inch category that is superior to it right now in terms of contrast , 4:4:4 , low input latency and ghosting?

 

[SJetski71]

While I love my Samsung A650 40 inch and am very happy with it. It does ghost with blacks , not terribly but as expected being a S-PVA panel. That being said its contrast is inky black , better than many newer (but cheap) LED-LCD's I've seen with bleeding all over the place. Its also quite uniform and unless I jump the brightness and backlight up a few notches I don't see any clouding/bleeding from the backlight at all.

Is there anything in the 32-40 inch category that is superior to it right now in terms of contrast , 4:4:4 , low input latency and ghosting?

That's a tough one, anything better right now would be incrementally better at best imho, and would rely heavily on your personal preference. You chose very well imho, the "A" Samsungs are great TV-monitors.

You might find one with a hair better input lag, a smidge better contrast, slightly better pixel refresh, but not enough where you would notice. Unless you went with some full array + local dimming maybe...

 

[Racer_J]

Bit of a bump here. I was talking to someone earlier and realized I hadn't been keeping tabs on the NS-32L240A13 from Insignia which I believe is the replacement for the DX-32L230A12 from Dynex. I wish I had the paltry $230+tax for it since it's on sale right now but, I don't. That's not the point though. The point is that I realized the manual for it is online and, this TV has a setting for the backlight as well as a setting for the aspect ratio and a setting to kill the overscan. It appears that the DVI listing on Best Buy is a bit of an error though as the only time DVI is mentioned is needing to use an analogue audio patch cable to get audio. The manual indicates that you should use HDMI1 when using a DVI>HDMI cable though.

The viewing angles are listed at 178 but, that may be a bit of an exaggeration as I can't imagine they would be marketing a 32" 1080p IPS panel for $270 even if it is from Insignia. Obviously the menu and firmware isn't nearly as in depth as something from LG but, that would be absurdly cheap as it's already substantially cheap for a VA panel.

I'm still very curious about this set and I may go see if they have it on display since apparently every store within 50 miles has it in stock. I guess they realized the marketing and sales potential after they had the DX-32L230A12 and decided to carry it's replacement in the store instead of just online.

 

[SJetski71]

Same here Racer, still curious about the NS-32L240A13. The 178 degree viewing angle claim i can understand, it's a blanket spec they seem to throw over all VA and IPS panels, whereas the smaller TV's with TN panels will have a 150~170 degree spec posted. I suppose a lack of DVI shouldn't surprise us if it is true.

Backlight adjustment is an important feature without a doubt, i got seriously lucky with my default Westy VR-3225 non-adjustable backlight setting. An overscan setting would be useful for most, at least from a troubleshooting standpoint, though i can see that confusing some upon initial setup.

$230 is a very fair price for something that seems great on paper. And since it's still a somewhat newer model i imagine it'll be around for a few more months at least, hopefully anyway.

 

[Ouroboros]

Bit of a bump here. I was talking to someone earlier and realized I hadn't been keeping tabs on the NS-32L240A13 from Insignia which I believe is the replacement for the DX-32L230A12 from Dynex. I wish I had the paltry $230+tax for it since it's on sale right now but, I don't. That's not the point though. The point is that I realized the manual for it is online and, this TV has a setting for the backlight as well as a setting for the aspect ratio and a setting to kill the overscan. It appears that the DVI listing on Best Buy is a bit of an error though as the only time DVI is mentioned is needing to use an analogue audio patch cable to get audio. The manual indicates that you should use HDMI1 when using a DVI>HDMI cable though.

The viewing angles are listed at 178 but, that may be a bit of an exaggeration as I can't imagine they would be marketing a 32" 1080p IPS panel for $270 even if it is from Insignia. Obviously the menu and firmware isn't nearly as in depth as something from LG but, that would be absurdly cheap as it's already substantially cheap for a VA panel.

I'm still very curious about this set and I may go see if they have it on display since apparently every store within 50 miles has it in stock. I guess they realized the marketing and sales potential after they had the DX-32L230A12 and decided to carry it's replacement in the store instead of just online.

Hi Racer_J, thanks for all the work you've done in this thread. It's really helped me in my quest to find a TV suitable for use as a computer monitor. If you can get to it before the sale is over, I'd really like to hear your opinion of this TV. I wish I had been looking for a TV when that Dynex was still around.

Also, I've noticed many discrepancies between the manual and the product page on Best Buy's website. It looks like they just copy and pasted a bunch of stuff from the Dynex's manual. Hopefully that bodes well for this TV having 4:4:4 support.

 

[Racer_J]

$230 is a very fair price for something that seems great on paper. And since it's still a somewhat newer model i imagine it'll be around for a few more months at least, hopefully anyway.

I would guess it will likely be around till the 3rd and possibly 4th quarter. If its normal sale price goes from $270 to $230, its blowout price will be absolutely insane.

Hi Racer_J, thanks for all the work you've done in this thread. It's really helped me in my quest to find a TV suitable for use as a computer monitor. If you can get to it before the sale is over, I'd really like to hear your opinion of this TV. I wish I had been looking for a TV when that Dynex was still around.

I have merely stood on the shoulders of others lol. If it hadn't been for this thread and a few over at AVS, I would be absolutely clueless on the subject of using a TV as a monitor. There is pretty much a 99.99% chance I won't be getting one while it's on sale so don't hold out hope. However, I doubt it's the last time it will be on sale given that this appears to be a wide release item at the store level. I have a hunch they are drumming up support for it now to bolster sales during November and December. It could just as easily be EoL before that point though and replaced. I don't think it will be though as it would sell absurdly well during that time of the year even if it lacked some of its features. I just hope it measures up to the DX-32L230A12 and that I don't have the same piss poor luck with panel defects when I am able to pick up the NS-32L240A13.

Also, I've noticed many discrepancies between the manual and the product page on Best Buy's website. It looks like they just copy and pasted a bunch of stuff from the Dynex's manual. Hopefully that bodes well for this TV having 4:4:4 support.

There were also discrepancies when Insignia only had their "teaser/marketing information" up as well. I would tend to lean towards trusting the manual over Best Buy though. Website/store errors are far more common than manual errors. There really isn't any telling though until someone decides to pick one up. It was a bit much to expect it to actually have a DVI input though as VGA has just now become phased out on video cards (as far as the newest cards go) and DVI is getting ready to go as well. It would make more sense at this juncture to start seeing DP rather than DVI as even onboard video is going to have to transition away from both VGA and DVI.

In the end, the model numbers make it look like a rebrand & refresh and I hope that's the case. On paper it doesn't look like anything was lost but, currently we don't know what panel, mainboard, etc. are in it and there is also no "enthusiast" feedback yet. I'll try to go see if they have it on display later this week/weekend. Granted the store will distort/hide/fudge the I/PQ but, it should be easy enough to take a look at the back of the unit to see if the panel ID label and mainboard labels are viewable to at least get a lead on what's in it.

 

[Ouroboros]

Thanks Racer_J, looks like I might just have to pick one up and see for myself.

 

[Racer_J]

Thanks Racer_J, looks like I might just have to pick one up and see for myself.

If you do make sure to thoroughly abuse it and report back to us lol.

 

[disc]

My new laptop wouldn't consistently handshake with my Vizio VO32LF, and I've grown FAR too accustomed to the 32" 1080p desktop real-estate to deal with a small screen, so I did the only thing natural; sell the Vizio on Craig's List and go shopping.

I did my research online, and settled on a few of the more recommended models; Sony 32EX720, Westinghouse VR-3225, or a LG 32LK450. I perused all the local Walmarts, Frys, and Best Buys, and while I did manage to spot an open-box 32LK450, I've tentatively settled on a Samsung UN32EH5000.

Thus far, the monitor seems to be a good sport. Renaming the HDMI1 input to 'PC' seems to pass the 4:4:4 Belle-Nuit test (though I haven't manage to find the colored text on color test image) even while passing HDMI audio, though Apple's font-smoothing seems to defeat the purpose a bit. I honestly don't understand the differences from of an IPS vs. VA panel, but I'm pretty sure the UN32EH5000 is a VA panel. Given the internet's preference for IPS panels (vs. VA panels) this monitor is beautiful; colors look great, brightness is far greater than I'd ever need it to be, contrast (eg., blacks) look great to me, and there's absolutely no perceptible mouse lag. I've never had the pleasure to compared an IPS panel directly to a VA panel, but I have no complaints on this screen.

In spite of the unusual on-screen buttons (it's more like an xbox joystick vs. discrete buttons) and the somewhat limited inputs (two HDMI inputs,) it's still a big step up from my previous Vizio.

http://imgur.com/aCL6j

 

[SH1]

I used a Samsung 40" from several years ago and it did a perfect PC monitor picture with the HDMI labed as PC as you describe. At least, there were no color issues or such. If that's the case in the current models that is nice to hear.

If I went back to an LCD for my PC, I guess VA would be the only option, since I'd want to get as close to good blacks as possible and as much on/off contrast as I could get on an LCD.

Also interesting that that model isn't edge lit, but has a full array of LEDs in back. (Though not locally dimmed.) That has to be better for uniformity I'd think...

 

[Ouroboros]

I am a feeble, weak-minded person. I stopped by Best Buy today and picked up the Insignia. Unfortunately, the desk I bought to put it on didn't come with any of the hardware to actually put it together. I decided to just hook it up to my computer really quick to test for 4:4:4. Now, I'm no expert but...

4:4:4? It looks pretty darn close. Uploading the image has reduced its quality, but there was a slight hint of red next to the teal lines.

I did not make any adjustments to my computer or the TV. I hooked it up with a DVI to HDMI cable, turned off overscan, and took that picture. After I get my desk together and everything else hooked up, I can take more pictures and run more tests if people request that I do so.

EDIT: I just tried Racer_J's code to get into the service menu. It works. Input, 2, 5, 8, 0. This one is pleased so far.

EDIT2: I should probably post the specs of the computer I'm using:

Intel Core i5 3450
AMD Radeon 6870
Windows 7 Professional x64

 

[PhatMhath]

thanks for the isignia post. im either going to get that one or the westinghouse vr3730. i was just waiting to decide.

right now im using that 299 haier 39" it actually looks really good. its just too darn big for how close i have to sit to it. so im hoping the 37 will be the sweet spot or maybe itll have to be that 32 insignia.

 

[Racer_J]

I decided to just hook it up to my computer really quick to test for 4:4:4. Now, I'm no expert but...


4:4:4? It looks pretty darn close. Uploading the image has reduced its quality, but there was a slight hint of red next to the teal lines.

That looks really close to passing. Since you're using AMD/ATi that may be as good as it's going to get since the 4:4:4 EDID override only affects Nvidia. However . . .

I did not make any adjustments to my computer or the TV. I hooked it up with a DVI to HDMI cable, turned off overscan, and took that picture.

You may want to make sure any edge enhancement is turned off on the TV. I don't recall what Dynex/Insignia call their version of that adjustment. Basically, everyone disables everything they can on a TV when they use it as a monitor to rule out any issues.

EDIT: I just tried Racer_J's code to get into the service menu. It works. Input, 2, 5, 8, 0. This one is pleased so far.

Wow, so all those adjustments are still there as well huh? I was fully expecting that to be stripped out at that price point. LG should take notes . . .

*glares menacingly at his U23H11 (refurb), Batman AA, Batman AC, and other such frivolities*

That severely increases the likelihood of me getting one of these at some point to put through the ringer. Well as much as I can without any calibration/test equipment.

 

[Racer_J]

thanks for the isignia post. im either going to get that one or the westinghouse vr3730. i was just waiting to decide.

right now im using that 299 haier 39" it actually looks really good. its just too darn big for how close i have to sit to it. so im hoping the 37 will be the sweet spot or maybe itll have to be that 32 insignia.

32" was the sweet spot for me. The 37" was "neat" but, that was a lot of screen to take in at your average computer monitor to eye distance. I caught myself looking at/getting wrapped up in the surroundings of stuff I have seen a billion and a half times rather than what was going on more than once. It was a distraction but, a lot of fun.

 

[Ouroboros]

I tried taking more pictures of the Insignia today. I uploaded them to this Imageshack album. Several of the pictures are a little blurry because of the dark backgrounds.

The panel number is : AUO t320hvn01.4
Firmware version: 568MF0002A1002R

 

[Racer_J]

Some of the text looks like it has improper subpixels lit but, the politics one clearly shows the line separating the red blocks from each other and some of the other text shots look fine. I'm inclined to think it's a sharpness setting issue rather than a 4:4:4 one based on the pictures. I don't think ClearType is at play assuming these are photos of the jpegs and not the actual sites. It could also be something with the source images though as my eyes sadly keep getting more critical of I/PQ.

My eyes are pretty tired right now and the pixels are small on this U23H11 but the "issues" I see in your photos are also showing on this so it's likely an issue with the source images which Pooh probably took with ClearType on. We're also comparing S-IPS to A-MVA and stuff is just going to look different in macro shots because of the pixel shape differences. I'll re-review this tomorrow after some sleep but, I think you're in 4:4:4 and if you're not you're absurdly close.


On another note:

T320HVN01.4 specs

 

[Racer_J]

Ouroboros,

Have you tried using a VGA>VGA cable and seeing if there is any difference at in the quality of the text and test images? It would rule out any sharpness setting issues as well as 4:4:4 issues. It might give you a better idea of if you are seeing what you should be. I think you're in 4:4:4 and that what I'm seeing is related to Pooh having ClearType on when those test images were made. I know for sure the !!! in the [H]ard|Forum test have subpixels in the top right lit because of that as I didn't see those when I turned ClearType off and looked at the actual page but, they were there when I had ClearType on and looked at the actual page.

You may also want to do the other 4:4:4 tests as well:

at AVS

• Belle-Nuit Method: Open the image found here: link. Make sure you’re at 100% zoom, and pay special attention to the area with the red/cyan columns (to the left of the “20”). On a 4:4:4 TV, each red/cyan columns will be perfectly 1 pixel wide. On a non-4:4:4 TV, the red/cyan columns will have alternating thickness – some would be 1 pixel wide while others would be 2-3 pixels wide. Note: for the Bell-Nuit test, you may need a magnifying glass or macro lens to see the pixel widths clearly.

Viewing the "Bell-nuit test image"

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

In case you can not view attachments at AVS, here is the Belle-Nuit Method image:

at AVS

• bspvette86 Test: Forum member bspvette86 has created his own 4:4:4 test pattern, and you can find it here: link. On a 4:4:4 TV, every horizontal and vertical line is exactly one pixel in height and width, respectively. On a non-4:4:4 TV, pixels will appear faded and/or duplicated -- this is most noticeable with the red, blue, and magenta lines. Note: for the bspvette86 test, you may need a magnifying glass or macro lens to see the pixel widths clearly.

Viewing the "bspvette86" test image:

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) can not display the "bspvette86" test image as it can not render png files.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to be left alone when you open the test image in it. If you maximize the window or enter full screen mode, it will improperly scale the test image.

In case you can not view attachments at AVS, here is the bspvette86 Test image:

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. I had some stuff that came up unexpectedly.

 

[pwrusr]

I tried taking more pictures of the Insignia today. I uploaded them to this Imageshack album. Several of the pictures are a little blurry because of the dark backgrounds.

The panel number is : AUO t320hvn01.4
Firmware version: 568MF0002A1002R

How are the black levels of the set? Any back light bleed?

 

[Ouroboros]

Pictures taken through VGA. I should warn you that they were taken through my laptop since my video card doesn't have a VGA port. It's also running a different operating system that probably does it's own font smoothing.







Here's the other test through DVI>HDMI.


Cleartype off:


Cleartype on:

 

[Ouroboros]

How are the black levels of the set? Any back light bleed?

I'm certainly not an expert, so keep that in mind. After the way Racer_J raved about the black levels on the Dynex, I was disappointed. They are roughly equal to the TN panel I'm using now. On the other hand, maybe this TN panel is very good at blacks (it certainly can't do white). I think something like this is too subjective. If Racer_J gets one of these panels, I would listen to him since he would have a better perspective.

I have noticed zero backlight bleed.

 

[Racer_J]

Looks like you're running in 4:4:4 based on the other test photos. There wasn't any funny business going on with the red, green, or yellow lines.

I'm certainly not an expert, so keep that in mind. After the way Racer_J raved about the black levels on the Dynex, I was disappointed. They are roughly equal to the TN panel I'm using now. On the other hand, maybe this TN panel is very good at blacks (it certainly can't do white). I think something like this is too subjective. If Racer_J gets one of these panels, I would listen to him since he would have a better perspective.

That's really disappointing to hear. The black levels on the DX-32L230A12 were impossible to separate from the bezel. VA panels go down really low on the black levels and they are usually in the .02 range. If the black levels are as bright as your TN panel they are going to be in the .18+ range and are likely .24 or higher. There is no way an A-MVA panel should be performing that poorly. Have you turned down your backlight level or reduced it all the way yet? That will improve the black levels and it's why that adjustment is so coveted. If it's on the default settings, the I/PQ will suffer so you should try adjusting the backlight level, turning off all the post processing garbage like dynamic contrast and what not, as well as adjusting the brightness and contrast to their proper levels and not the lol levels displays ship with.

 

[Ouroboros]

That's really disappointing to hear. The black levels on the DX-32L230A12 were impossible to separate from the bezel. VA panels go down really low on the black levels and they are usually in the .02 range. If the black levels are as bright as your TN panel they are going to be in the .18+ range and are likely .24 or higher. There is no way an A-MVA panel should be performing that poorly. Have you turned down your backlight level or reduced it all the way yet? That will improve the black levels and it's why that adjustment is so coveted. If it's on the default settings, the I/PQ will suffer so you should try adjusting the backlight level, turning off all the post processing garbage like dynamic contrast and what not, as well as adjusting the brightness and contrast to their proper levels and not the lol levels displays ship with.

I wouldn't put too much stock in my opinion. If being the same color as the bezel is the measure, then both the Insignia and my TN panel get at least close to that. I have adjusted the display to the best of my ability using the lagom website. I think the only way you're going to really know is to check it out yourself.

I would definitely like to hear your opinion of how it compares to the Dynex.

 

[Racer_J]

I wouldn't put too much stock in my opinion. If being the same color as the bezel is the measure, then both the Insignia and my TN panel get at least close to that. I have adjusted the display to the best of my ability using the lagom website. I think the only way you're going to really know is to check it out yourself.

I would definitely like to hear your opinion of how it compares to the Dynex.

As long as the bezel is pitch black that's the measure I go by. If I can't tell the difference in the black levels in video playback, the bezel, my speakers, etc. at night with no other light sources then I'm good to go.

I'll eventually pick on of these up I'm just not sure when.

 

[PhatMhath]

ok so i got the westinghouse 37in that is mentioned in the original post and elsewhere. some thoughts on that.

the text is super nice and crips. so as monitor its working great. yesss!

and the size is just right for using close as a monitor, imo. happy to have more than 32 but less than the 39 i tried. ha!

2 things im not so happy with that i was seeking yalls input on.

first its a dim monitor. not very bright. im talking about just the amount of light coming from it. its all toned down. i remember a salesman telling me thats how westy monitors (pre led) are. anyway to brighten it up? go into retail mode? how do i do that as ive already set it up in home mode?

second, its like theres this oily film that shows on the corners of the monitor. it kinda refracts the light differently. anyone notice this?

im thinking of checking out the 37in visio E371VL. haven't seen it talked about here. wonder how it is.

thanks for all your input everyone. its very helpful.

 

[Racer_J]

first its a dim monitor. not very bright. im talking about just the amount of light coming from it. its all toned down. i remember a salesman telling me thats how westy monitors (pre led) are. anyway to brighten it up? go into retail mode? how do i do that as ive already set it up in home mode?

There is a very, very, very minimal difference in the two modes. A majority of people get "locked" to the mode they select. IF you didn't setup the antenna input (where it actually finds channels) you might be able to select that input and have it kick you back to the initial setup screen.

second, its like theres this oily film that shows on the corners of the monitor. it kinda refracts the light differently. anyone notice this?

I don't recall the surface of the panel or how it interacted with light being any different in the corners. However, the corners will not have the same gamma as the area of the screen where the "viewing cone" is (e.g. you're looking at the dead center of the screen) since it's a VA panel. As such the corners/anything not in the "viewing cone" will look "washed out" compared to everything in the "viewing cone".

Are you seeing an issue in the corners with the TV on or off?

 

[PhatMhath]

your idea for putting it to antenna input worked for getting it into retail. it seems a little brighter now. thanks!

so this oily film...if im looking dead center on my monitor and i look down at the corners - i can see it. the oily film shadows the corners. if i look dead on at the corners then the shadow goes away.

i cant see it when i have monitor off as its dark and i cant see the shadow then. i only see it on white backgrounds. oh and its not just a shadow...it kind of blurs the image too. not as sharp.

so yeh im tempted to try the visio at walmart. i just hate taking things back. meh.