Is there a future in ITX gaming?

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sidsaccount

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So far there is only one ITX board I can think of that caters to ITX gamers... So my question is this. Do you fellas honestly think that mini-itx gaming will ever take off? What are your honest opinions?

-Sid
 
zotac, gigabyte, dfi, and ecs have mini itx boards with an x16 slot so itx gaming is far from dead
 
I'd say that this is only the beginning, Mini-ITX gaming will get more popular as more power efficient components are made.

One of the main problems at the moment is that it's difficult, dangerous even, to fit high powered parts in to tiny cases with even tinier power supplies.
 
Intel also has an itx board with x16 slot and asus and sapphire both have amd itx boards in the works with x16 slots.

I don't think its the boards holding itx gaming back. It's the lack of smaller video cards.
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Gaming is not a huge GPU and the most powerful quad.

Most games do well on mainstream hardware, a good gaming system would probably consist of an i3 530 + a GT240 for a lot of people.

The sweet spot right now would be the same i3 530+ an ATI 5770/5850 and those can fit on ITX cases.

It's always important to understand that not everyone is an overlocker or enthusiast.
 
As technology advances, hardware gets smaller. This is fact and mini ITX is proof of this. Why have big ATX motherboards when you can pack all of those features into something half the size? I see a huge future for ITX gaming.
 
fr500 said:
Gaming is not a huge GPU and the most powerful quad.

Most games do well on mainstream hardware, a good gaming system would probably consist of an i3 530 + a GT240 for a lot of people.

The sweet spot right now would be the same i3 530+ an ATI 5770/5850 and those can fit on ITX cases.

It's always important to understand that not everyone is an overlocker or enthusiast.
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That would be the future in Mainstream, Not gaming..
 
Thing is as you go into i3/GT240 terratory you are better off with a laptop.
 
bastage said:
That would be the future in Mainstream, Not gaming..
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So what do you think drives the market? mainstream or the core gamers?

Mainstream moves a ton more money, and every day people buy their computers (low end more than mainstream) and complain about gaming performance. Those who care become enthusiasts.

Mainstream is the key, ITX is going mainstream so it's starting to get more and more supported.
 
mITX gaming is only getting better. This time in 2008 I was on a mission to find a mITX board that supported desktop quad processors(not mobile) and had a x16 PCIe slot. I found six obscure industrial boards. The cheapest was $250 and finding an etailer who had them was even more fun.

Fast forward to today, where you can just waltz on over to Newegg and buy any one of a dozen i-series capable mITX board for $120 or less. :)

Today, the only limit is peoples imagination. It seems that anytime someone goes out to build a serious mITX game rig, someone pipes up and says something along the lines of "Stop! Don't even try! It's impossible! mITX is only for HTPC and entry level gaming!" how does the saying go? It's only impossible until someone who doesn't know it's impossible does it?
 
Considering ASUS makes the Maximus III Gene, I wont be surprised to see a Maximus V Mini.
 
sidsaccount said:
So far there is only one ITX board I can think of that caters to ITX gamers...
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Don't hurt yourself too much with all that deep thinking. :p

Just a quick search at Newegg nets twelve mini ITX boards that have PCIe x16 slots and which use socketed CPUs.
 
With thought, I've drafted up an "decent" Lian-Li like mini-itx case. The problem is, saving only 5 inches in depth and 2 or 3 inches in height (base off from PC-9 dimensions) may not result in an smaller case. Smaller components like, single slot card, psu, optical drive, and 2.5 hard drive might be better for size or bust. ;)

15in high, 8.25in wide, 14in depth.
~28L in volume.

Too large to post with image tag.
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2655/draftdim.jpg

Chopped rear taken from the PC-9.
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4595/lianliwhatifback.jpg
 
I think the future is bright for gaming PCs based off of the Mini-ITX platform. We certainly are pushing it whenever we can.
 
Of course there's a future in M-ITX gaming.

This is a bit of a replay of what people said about M-ATX systems.

And also DDR2 RAM.

Everything is going to get smaller, and more powerful.
 
I like the idea of smaller equipment. I'm a person who has to move every year (changing flats etc travel) and thats what got me thinking into the SFF world.

Its really inspiring how manufacturers are changing and improving designs that can maximize cooling without an impact on volume.
 
fr500 said:
So what do you think drives the market? mainstream or the core gamers?

Mainstream moves a ton more money, and every day people buy their computers (low end more than mainstream) and complain about gaming performance. Those who care become enthusiasts.

Mainstream is the key, ITX is going mainstream so it's starting to get more and more supported.
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Sure.. but I read the OP & the part that said "ITX GAMING" not "ITX MAINSTREAM"
 
I think there needs to be more mITX cases that are appropriately sized. The Q-08 and Q-11 just look huge to me. If we had more cases like the Lan-Gear and the SG-07, which offer flexibility while still leveraging the small size of mITX, I'd already have a system completely built. It's also a matter of engineering a board layout that allows for cooling of all the components effectively so that higher end parts can be used without the worry of physically damaging the board like in the case of the P55-T36.
 
bastage said:
Sure.. but I read the OP & the part that said "ITX GAMING" not "ITX MAINSTREAM"
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My point is that not everyone needs dual 5970s and an i7 980x to play games.

A good dual core chip and a mainstream card is all you need to play current generation games, and that is actually a good thing since it makes GAMING computers more affordable.
 
fr500 said:
My point is that not everyone needs dual 5970s and an i7 980x to play games.

A good dual core chip and a mainstream card is all you need to play current generation games, and that is actually a good thing since it makes GAMING computers more affordable.
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Your talking about a mainstream computer that can play games, Not a Gaming computer.. You don't even need mainstream to play games. I Still know people who play on single core ~2Ghz systems with nvidia 7000 series cards. But thats not mainstream or gaming, but they still play games on it. If the system is built to be a gaming rig then most parts will be built for gaming systems, not for mainstream.
 
I think the want is there and as we're seeing over time. More and more products are being made to adhere to this market.

Also, for the billionth time lol. You DO NOT, have to be an enthuaist to be a gamer or "gaming rig". If you can play the stupid games and enjoy them... nuff' said, nuff's said, and oh... nuff' said ;)
 
ok so what your saying is that I can legitimately call my Phone a gaming rig because I can play games on it. Even 1st person shooters (doom)..

The line has to be drawn somewhere & where the popular place seems to be is can you play games on it.. well you can play games on a Atom with integrated graphics (which is probably the lions share of the markets mITX boards). Doesn't make it a gaming rig.
 
bastage said:
ok so what your saying is that I can legitimately call my Phone a gaming rig because I can play games on it. Even 1st person shooters (doom)..

The line has to be drawn somewhere
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PSHAW! My Sandisk Sansa C100 MP3 player can play Doom on a 1" diagonal screen with Rockbox installed. Woot! :rolleyes:

So you want a line to be drawn to define "gaming" computer? In an earlier post you replied to someone mentioning a Radeon 5850, stating that it was mainstream and not gaming. You just strike me as being elitist with some of your remarks.

Not everyone has Eyefinity or 30" monitors. A single 5850 can max out just about any game (maybe except Crysis) on "normal" monitors.

Would you consider an Xbox360 or PS3 "gaming?" That hardware is pretty slow compared to current mid-range stuff.

Would you consider Counterstrike (either version) as gaming? That doesn't require anywhere near current high-end hardware to totally max out.
 
I think there is definitely a future for ITX for enthusiasts. The market is kind of at the same place the mATX was a few years ago. It was such a niche market and there only a few really good boards from a very small numbers of manufacturers. In s939 we had the Biostar tforce, Epox 6100 and the DFI rs482. The Biostar board really made waves and we slowly started seeing more enthusiast capable mATX boards and that slowly trickled down the line's and eventually we had really solid boards like the Abit NF-M2 nView/i90-HD, Giga G33 and P5VM HDMI.

I think we're just starting to see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is being offered on mini-itx. We're seeing more mobo's and case's by the day and that's a good thing. Growing pains, give it time.
 
To answer the thread's title, I think there is a future for iTX gaming. Personally, I think mATX is still the better choice for SFF gamers but iTX is slowly improving much like mATX has done over the years. Just my own opinion on the subject. :)
 
Zap said:
PSHAW! My Sandisk Sansa C100 MP3 player can play Doom on a 1" diagonal screen with Rockbox installed. Woot! :rolleyes:

So you want a line to be drawn to define "gaming" computer? In an earlier post you replied to someone mentioning a Radeon 5850, stating that it was mainstream and not gaming. You just strike me as being elitist with some of your remarks.

Not everyone has Eyefinity or 30" monitors. A single 5850 can max out just about any game (maybe except Crysis) on "normal" monitors.

Would you consider an Xbox360 or PS3 "gaming?" That hardware is pretty slow compared to current mid-range stuff.

Would you consider Counterstrike (either version) as gaming? That doesn't require anywhere near current high-end hardware to totally max out.
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5850 is not mainstream hardware.. Its midrange gaming hardware.. 5770 is High End Mainstream.. I Can tell you I don't have a 30" eyefinity setup & if I Did I would be a happy camper.. In-fact if I had an eyefinity setup at all I would be happy. I Do have a 28" lcd, but I scored it on a screaming deal at 200 bucks over a year ago.
I am in no way an elitist as I cannot afford to be. I consider my current system a gaming rig though based on the Phenom 2 x6 and 5830 that I do have. Its mATX though not mITX. Any what way you slice it though if its about gaming hardware (which the thread title certainly implies) then mainstream products differ for sure from gaming products. Just because you can play games on it doesn't make it a gaming system.
 
the whole problem with sff cases is heat and space.we're not even close to dreaming of a highend cpu at under 45w tdp. any sff case with the psu right on top of the cpu is a recepe for disaster, even if youre able to fit a decent hsf onto it. the psu gets very hot unless your case has extra exhaust fans and a low wattage cpu. putting a highend gpu that creates heat just moots those extra fans, which in most cases are only 80mm anyway. way too loud.so unless designers start making sff cases with layouts that actually make sense, i would say anything using an sff case, let alone itx is pretty much a useless venture if you plan on playing higher end games.
i just used a silverstone sg02-f case for a secondary htpc. i gotta say its useless and i will never buy another one again. i couldnt even use a 65w amd x2 5200 in there without the psu gettin hotter than hell. so i had to go out and buy a crappy little sempron 140. the tdp and hsf clearance is much lower so its not fighting the psu fan so much. nice looking little case but what a pisspoor design imo.
 
MaSsAcRe said:
As technology advances, hardware gets smaller. This is fact and mini ITX is proof of this. Why have big ATX motherboards when you can pack all of those features into something half the size? I see a huge future for ITX gaming.
Click to expand...

How ironic because Nvidia is doing the complete opposite and building huge chips...
 
People who are arguing between the line of mainstream/gaming;

Mainstream IS gaming.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/?platform=pc

Most 'gamers' are using lower spec hardware. Gaming is driven by mainstream pre built computers, only a few enthusiasts actually use 'gaming' hardware.

So really, it's not 'gaming' hardware, it's enthusiast, and most gamers aren't enthusiasts, if they are, they don't have the money.

Also, there'll be a huge future in ITX gaming. In terms of actually playing the game, yes, sure. If it'll run on it, people will play it.

In terms of the enthusiast market, again, yes. See what Lan Gear are doing, for instance.
 
The simple definition would be that if you're using it to play games on a regular basis, it's a gaming computer. My computer has a HD 4670 which is definitely not enthusiast level by today's standards, but that doesn't make my computer any less of a gaming computer, and it runs modern games like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 etc quite acceptably. It's not so much about the hardware, but about what you do with it. I could play older titles exclusively and still be a gamer with a gaming computer.

ITX can do gaming on every reasonable level quite fine, and it's certainly not without a future - on the contrary, it's only just starting to come alive. Sure, if you want Quad SLI/Crossfire you're better off looking somewhere else (such as look for a doctor to have your head examined), but ITX can do just about any single card + quad CPU setup.

I had an ITX computer briefly, but traded it for a mATX. Still, the craving for another ITX setup is constantly there. An i3 + 5770 would be quite a nice little package... gah.
 
tvih said:
The simple definition would be that if you're using it to play games on a regular basis, it's a gaming computer.
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So I play games on my Android Cell phone alot more then I Do on my Desktop.. So that would make my cell phone more of a gaming system then my Desktop?

Yea thats a No..


Edit: Wiki isnt the end all, but it does typically represent popular opinion.
 
bastage said:
So I play games on my Android Cell phone alot more then I Do on my Desktop.. So that would make my cell phone more of a gaming system then my Desktop?

Yea thats a No..


Edit: Wiki isnt the end all, but it does typically represent popular opinion.
Click to expand...

When your cell phone can play the PC version of current games, then yes it would be a gaming system. Oh, but it can't.

Speaking of "popular opinion" haven't you picked up the vibe that yours isn't that here in "SFF?"

Back to Wikipedia.

A gaming computer (also gaming PC and gaming machine) is a personal computer that is capable of playing modern hardcore video games.
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Okay, we have a baseline. Note that they do not say "capable of playing modern hardcore video games at 2560x1600 resolution with 16xAA and everything jacked up at 60+ FPS."

Thus, a mini ITX computer with, say, a single GeForce GT 240 or Radeon 5670 is a perfect example of "a gaming computer." Let's say you have it hooked up to a 720p HDTV or one of those low end LCD monitors that run the same resolution. I'm pretty certain that a "modern hardcore video game" like BFBC2 can play on such a setup.
 
When iTX SFF cases can hold and cool the latest quadcore (or however how many cores the latest chip has) and the longest of any video card (currently the 5970) then I'd consider a iTX SFF rig. Right now there is no iTX mobo that even does what I want adequately. iTX needs more maturing but thats just how it is for me. My needs/wants may differ than others. :)
 
Zap said:
When your cell phone can play the PC version of current games, then yes it would be a gaming system. Oh, but it can't.

Speaking of "popular opinion" haven't you picked up the vibe that yours isn't that here in "SFF?"

Back to Wikipedia.



Okay, we have a baseline. Note that they do not say "capable of playing modern hardcore video games at 2560x1600 resolution with 16xAA and everything jacked up at 60+ FPS."

Thus, a mini ITX computer with, say, a single GeForce GT 240 or Radeon 5670 is a perfect example of "a gaming computer." Let's say you have it hooked up to a 720p HDTV or one of those low end LCD monitors that run the same resolution. I'm pretty certain that a "modern hardcore video game" like BFBC2 can play on such a setup.
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So you quoted wiki but did you read it all..

From the hardware section

In modern times, the primary difference between a gaming computer and a typical PC is the inclusion of a performance-oriented video card, which hosts a graphics processor. Some motherboards support up to four video cards through SLI or Crossfire. However, such configurations are typically regarded as a curiosity for enthusiasts rather than a useful alternative to single-card upgrade cycles.
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So a GT240 is not performance orientated.. neither is a 5770.. Thus your following paragraph is null & void.. because fore the reccord I can play BFBC2 on my dual core atom with integrated intel graphics. But its not ideal.

It would be like trying to race nascar in a Geo Metro. Sure it will go around the track. But that doesn't make it a nascar. If the hardware wasn't built to game then its not a gaming rig.

& I don't really care what the popular opinion here is. Just because its popular doesn't make it right. & just as you can argue your side so can I.
 
bastage said:
So a GT240 is not performance orientated.. neither is a 5770.. Thus your following paragraph is null & void.. because fore the reccord I can play BFBC2 on my dual core atom with integrated intel graphics. But its not ideal.
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Slide show is not "adequate." Mid range cards are indeed adequate.

Okay, how about a single GTX 480? That is (arguably) the highest performing single gaming GPU that exists today, and there are two (soon to be three) mini ITX cases that can handle it, plus any number of socket AM2/3, 775 and 1156 boards that can go in the cases which has a slot for that card. After all, according to the Wiki you quoted, multiple cards are merely a curiosity.

Oh yeah, and your micro ATX gaming rig? Couple years ago I had similar forum discussions with people who couldn't comprehend "something that small" being able to overclock or be used for gaming... as if there was some magical aspect of a certain part that made it only suitable for one task.
 
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