Is 2012 Slated to be the Year of the Ultrabook?

XacTactX said:
I don't understand. These ultrabooks are maybe 1/2" thinner than your average netbook, and at most weigh 0.5 lbs less. Are businesspeople really that conscious of form factor?

I'm not being rhetorical, I'm just surprised.
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But an i5/i7 based machine is MUCH faster than an Atom based netbook.
 
XacTactX said:
I don't understand. These ultrabooks are maybe 1/2" thinner than your average netbook, and at most weigh 0.5 lbs less.
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And have much more powerful hardware, and have larger and higher-resolution displays, and have longer battery life.
 
There's no way in hell I'll be sticking to an ultrabook/Intel-only graphics combo. Fuck that. I need a dedicated GPU in it, and I really wish there's a true contender for the M11x and M14x right now.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Ignoring the haters..

These are basically a full powered Laptop that is ultra thin and light (You know the thing that A LOT of high travel business people want), with excellent battery life. You pay a slight premium in price for that weight reduction (expected) but really not that much once you factor in the SSD and other things.
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What other things? It has no NIC, no add-on ports, minimal USB ports, a very low-clocked CPU, etc.

If you look at it in terms of specs, you are paying for a $500 laptop system.
Really, in the end, you pay for form factor.
 
You guys are mixing up the two issues of the hardware in the machine and the form factor. My Eee 1215b has chiclet keys like an ultrabook does, USB 3.0, an SD reader, and good battery life (5-6 hours). Granted, it's an E-350 based machine, so it's an apples to oranges comparison. But my point is, if you took the same hardware in one of these ultrabooks and put it inside of a 12" netbook chassis, you could have a high performance portable machine that costs less and doesn't make stupid concessions like not having an SD reader, having mini arrow keys, etc.

I'm trying to say that the form factor part is blown out of proportion.
 
makes more sense than the tablet craze of 2011 if you ask me...
 
So much stupid in this thread.

First of all, I have a faster computer than 99% of you so you can keep the "mancard" comments to yourself.

Second, my Macbook Air is my favorite computer I've ever used. Yes, I'm paying more for thinness. I realize I am paying for a normal-performing laptop in a thin and light chassis. That's the entire fucking point, Sherlock Holmes.

Two things to clear up:

1. The Macbook air is not only the best ultrabook, it's the best priced. Apple gives a $100 student discount, plus half price upgrades and a $100 itunes gift card. I got my 1.8ghz (2.9 turbo frequency), 256gb SSD, 4GB ram maxed out air for around $1300 shipped. In other words, cheaper than the Asus. And mine has a backlit keyboard and a much better screen.

2. Ultrabooks are not targeted towards being the only computer for computer nerds. I know it's amazing to think of for most of you, but you are not the majority of the market segment. The Macbook Air has changed how I use my computer. It's thin and light enough where I can slip it into the paper pocket of my briefcase and never leave home without it. Even adding another pound would be a pain in the ass when you're running through airports. Every single person that sees mine in the airport or class or wherever comments that they want one.

And to top it off, the gaming performance isn't terrible either. Even runs BF3 at 25-30FPS on low, and runs Portal 2 maxed out at native resolution. Ivy bridge will double this performance, which means you'll be able to legitimately run Battlefield 3 on a fucking Macbook Air.

Those of you that think Ultrabooks aren't fantastic simply don't get it. You either never carry a computer around, or are too poor to have a second computer dedicated just to mobility.
 
XacTactX said:
You guys are mixing up the two issues of the hardware in the machine and the form factor. My Eee 1215b has chiclet keys like an ultrabook does, USB 3.0, an SD reader, and good battery life (5-6 hours). Granted, it's an E-350 based machine, so it's an apples to oranges comparison. But my point is, if you took the same hardware in one of these ultrabooks and put it inside of a 12" netbook chassis, you could have a high performance portable machine that costs less and doesn't make stupid concessions like not having an SD reader, having mini arrow keys, etc.
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Would it cost less? Probably not by much. The Intel hardware used in ultrabooks is more expensive and higher-performing than the low-end AMD hardware in your notebook. And you would still end up with something that has worse build quality, is thicker, and weighs more.
 
XacTactX said:
You guys are mixing up the two issues of the hardware in the machine and the form factor. My Eee 1215b has chiclet keys like an ultrabook does, USB 3.0, an SD reader, and good battery life (5-6 hours). Granted, it's an E-350 based machine, so it's an apples to oranges comparison. But my point is, if you took the same hardware in one of these ultrabooks and put it inside of a 12" netbook chassis, you could have a high performance portable machine that costs less and doesn't make stupid concessions like not having an SD reader, having mini arrow keys, etc.

I'm trying to say that the form factor part is blown out of proportion.
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Unless that's what you are looking for. I will be commuting to and from work on the train next year, and I don't want to be trucking around a 6 lb laptop, and the horsepower of a netbook will not cut it. The whole POINT of an ultrabook is the formfactor, not to replace standard laptops.
 
Exactly. An ultrabook is a productivity machine, not a gaming rig. Adding a dedicated GPU and excess weight and size would defeat the entire point and make it harder to use.
 
computerpro3 said:
So much stupid in this thread.

First of all, I have a faster computer than 99% of you so you can keep the "mancard" comments to yourself.

Second, my Macbook Air is my favorite computer I've ever used. Yes, I'm paying more for thinness. I realize I am paying for a normal-performing laptop in a thin and light chassis. That's the entire fucking point, Sherlock Holmes.

Two things to clear up:

1. The Macbook air is not only the best ultrabook, it's the best priced. Apple gives a $100 student discount, plus half price upgrades and a $100 itunes gift card. I got my 1.8ghz (2.9 turbo frequency), 256gb SSD, 4GB ram maxed out air for around $1300 shipped. In other words, cheaper than the Asus. And mine has a backlit keyboard and a much better screen.

2. Ultrabooks are not targeted towards being the only computer for computer nerds. I know it's amazing to think of for most of you, but you are not the majority of the market segment. The Macbook Air has changed how I use my computer. It's thin and light enough where I can slip it into the paper pocket of my briefcase and never leave home without it. Even adding another pound would be a pain in the ass when you're running through airports. Every single person that sees mine in the airport or class or wherever comments that they want one.

And to top it off, the gaming performance isn't terrible either. Even runs BF3 at 25-30FPS on low, and runs Portal 2 maxed out at native resolution. Ivy bridge will double this performance, which means you'll be able to legitimately run Battlefield 3 on a fucking Macbook Air.

Those of you that think Ultrabooks aren't fantastic simply don't get it. You either never carry a computer around, or are too poor to have a second computer dedicated just to mobility.
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No need to attack others you know, and calling them off as a fictional detective who's poor and never had to carry a computer around. I'll get the M11x over the Macbook Air anyday when it comes to mobility, but my Acer ultraportable still hasn't failed me yet.
 
BDS23 said:
No need to attack others you know, and calling them off as a fictional detective who's poor and never had to carry a computer around. I'll get the M11x over the Macbook Air anyday when it comes to mobility, but my Acer ultraportable still hasn't failed me yet.
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No, there is a reason because the stupid is overwhelming.

For example, your statement that you would take the M11x over the Macbook Air for mobility.

Congratulations, you'd rather have a thicker, heavier machine when it comes to portability.

Do you understand why that is dumb?
 
computerpro3 said:
No, there is a reason because the stupid is overwhelming.

For example, your statement that you would take the M11x over the Macbook Air for mobility.

Congratulations, you'd rather have a thicker, heavier machine when it comes to portability.

Do you understand why that is dumb?
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So a 2 Kg netbook is thicker and heavier? I'd say compact and still pretty light, not to mention more powerful. Here's an advice, get out more and work out. If you find 2 Kg to be heavy... Well... I feel sorry for you.
 
You guys are short on imagination. I described my idea of a netbook crossed with mid-range internals so you could tell me if it was viable, not explain to me that my netbook is not equivalent to it.

So imagine this.

1. 12.1" netbook chassis. like this
2. AMD Llano A8-3800
3. 4GB RAM
4. SSD
5. 9 cell battery

What part of this would be too bulky for 99% of the population? If they built something like this instead, it would be more functional and it would sacrifice hardly anything in terms of size.

Now feel free to criticize.
 
XacTactX said:
You guys are short on imagination. I described my idea of a netbook crossed with mid-range internals so you could tell me if it was viable, not explain to me that my netbook is not equivalent to it.

So imagine this.

1. 12.1" netbook chassis. like this
2. AMD Llano A8-3800
3. 4GB RAM
4. SSD
5. 9 cell battery

What part of this would be too bulky for 99% of the population? If they built something like this instead, it would be more functional and it would sacrifice hardly anything in terms of size.

Now feel free to criticize.
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Change the 9-cell battery to a high-capacity battery. Cells won't give out the bigger picture.
 
BDS23 said:
So a 2 Kg netbook is thicker and heavier? I'd say compact and still pretty light, not to mention more powerful. Here's an advice, get out more and work out. If you find 2 Kg to be heavy... Well... I feel sorry for you.
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Yes, the M11x is significantly thicker and heavier. My Macbook air weighs 2.1lbs, and even with the AC Adapter it weighs well under 3.

So again, do you understand why preferring the M11x to a Macbook Air for portability is dumb?
 
If you don't understand why a lighter and slimmer notebook can be beneficial you are simply not in the target audience....move along.

I am at the other end of the spectrum, I'm in a different hotel every Mon-Fri and jetting around the country. Every inch and every pound matters.

I still hate the "ultrabook moniker" and that is what this thread should be debating!
 
computerpro3 said:
Yes, the M11x is significantly thicker and heavier. My Macbook air weighs 2.1lbs, and even with the AC Adapter it weighs well under 3.

So again, do you understand why preferring the M11x to a Macbook Air for portability is dumb?
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The spec weight on Apple's of the current MBA 11 is 2.38 pounds, not sure what you have that only weighs 2.1.

There are cross-cutting concerns here, mobility, battery life and performance. I have a Samsung Series 7 Slate which it thinner, lighter and has the same CPU/GPU and battery life as the base model MBA 11, of course it has no built in keyboard being a tablet but with the dock and keyboard it's comes in at about 3.2 lbs, so 13 ounces heavier than the MBA 11 but more flexible and a much better screen. However it does have a first rate (as in Wacom) digital pen and it's about the size weight and size as a about 200 sheet note pad, so for anyone that writes on paper hell you could carry something like the S7S and ditch paper altogether. Heck you could even carry a notebook or ultraportable and something like an S7S if you need paper and a more powerful computer than an ultraportable

When it comes to a matter or ounces the average person isn't going to notice the carry weight in backpack or shoulder bag, one would notice it while actually holding the device. But ultimately what is mobile and worth it depends on your needs. If you need an integrated keyboard and half an inch or a pound is a pain in the ass, go for it. Some might find the performance or screen an issue on a lot of these ultraportables, including the MBA. Apple fans love to slam PCs for weak screens, the MBA screens are pretty weak but I've owned my fair share of devices with crappy screens but other features the device offered made the tradeoff worth it, which I can see the MBA's weight and size offering.
 
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather have a descent full sized laptop for half the price and similar specs and a disk drive. Unless you get a loptop similar to a desktop replacement laptop size has never been an issue as far as I'm concerned.
 
XacTactX said:
I don't understand. These ultrabooks are maybe 1/2" thinner than your average netbook, and at most weigh 0.5 lbs less. Are businesspeople really that conscious of form factor?

I'm not being rhetorical, I'm just surprised.
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It isn't about form factor, it is about weight and functionality. While it is only marginally lighter than a netbook, it is Magnitudes more powerful. Netbooks are worthless to anyone who actually needs to do work, sorry but they are. Tablets fill the netbook niche quite nicely as they do what they do quite well, where as netbooks while they do more do not really excel at anything. The atom cpu is useless for basically anything outside web browsing. these ultrabooks pack the power of a full blown laptop while maintaining that weight and battery life advantage of netbooks, plus a screen you can actually see helps.

Honestly comparing an ultrabook to a netbook is not an appropriate comparison. It is ultrabook vs laptop as that is what they are. Netbooks don't compete with it on any level and yes to anyone who travels a good deal, saving several lbs over a typical 15" $500 laptop is huge, not to mention the battery life..ssd etc. Now given these have an SSD if you compare a laptop with an SSD the price gap is pretty narrow considering the weight and battery life differences.

Red Falcon said:
What other things? It has no NIC, no add-on ports, minimal USB ports, a very low-clocked CPU, etc.

If you look at it in terms of specs, you are paying for a $500 laptop system.
Really, in the end, you pay for form factor.
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See what I said above..it is far more than form factor and when you factor in an SSD..well you don't get an SSD in a $500 laptop. Even a lower clocked i3/i5 will run circles around an Atom.
 
"I want a quad core Core i7, 6+GB RAM, raid 0 120GBx2 SSD's, Display Port, and 1080p on a 13 inch OLED display. More importantly, through light peak, I want an external video card that allows me to game on my 2560 monitor and 3D 1080p."

Try the Sony Vaio Z series, it has the lightpeak stuff an external GFX it wieghs just over 1Kg and is a very nice computer. Also it has raided SSDs.

Back to the thread a few manufacturers will have non user changeable batteries in the ultrabooks due to them now being part of the chassis. The Sony SB26 (I think) has a 6 hour battery made into the chassis, so not user changeable but means they chan chnage the size of the notebooks and cram all the small areas inside with battery.
 
computerpro3 said:
Even adding another pound would be a pain in the ass when you're running through airports.
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If the though of lugging an extra 16oz of gear through customs and TSA checkpoints is a deal breaker...?

Hilarious.
 
bucket said:
If the though of lugging an extra 16oz of gear through customs and TSA checkpoints is a deal breaker...?

Hilarious.
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If you don't understand the difference a pound and the extra thickness make, then ultrabooks are not for you, and you will never understand. For others, like me, when you put an Ultrabook up against a standard laptop, the difference inconvenience and heft is real and worth the cost.
 
bucket said:
If the though of lugging an extra 16oz of gear through customs and TSA checkpoints is a deal breaker...?

Hilarious.
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You must not travel a lot for work. If you are a high bandwidth traveller you don't show up with tons of time before flights and take your time getting your stuff after. You are trying to shave your airport time to as little as possible. Sorry, but in business, time in airport is lost $ or productivity. When I travel, I have it down to about 11 lbs with electronics and clothes for a 3 day trip. It takes nearly zero time to get through TSA because i'm not fucking around. I'm lucky if I show up 5 minutes before the minimum check in time lately.
 
Trepidati0n said:
You must not travel a lot for work. If you are a high bandwidth traveller you don't show up with tons of time before flights and take your time getting your stuff after. You are trying to shave your airport time to as little as possible. Sorry, but in business, time in airport is lost $ or productivity. When I travel, I have it down to about 11 lbs with electronics and clothes for a 3 day trip. It takes nearly zero time to get through TSA because i'm not fucking around. I'm lucky if I show up 5 minutes before the minimum check in time lately.
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But would be the real difference if you had 12 instead of 11 lbs? That's literally just the difference of a piss or dump. I can understand wanting to keep weight to a minimum but let's not exaggerate it either,
 
heatlesssun said:
But would be the real difference if you had 12 instead of 11 lbs? That's literally just the difference of a piss or dump. I can understand wanting to keep weight to a minimum but let's not exaggerate it either,
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He's talking about luggage weight, not dead weight.
 
Zero82z said:
He's talking about luggage weight, not dead weight.
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I understand that and I understand the desire to minimize carry weight, I'm simply asking what's the practical difference between 11 and 12 lbs. in carry weight? The difference that 1 lbs makes in terms of computing capability however could be very practical, much longer battery life, much faster processing power or both. I wouldn't even no how an healthy, in shape and able bodied person could be practically hampered by carrying a laptop that weighs 4 lbs vs 3 lbs in bag. Again, I understand the desire to want to minimize weight, I just think that at come point the case gets overstated.
 
heatlesssun said:
I understand that and I understand the desire to minimize carry weight, I'm simply asking what's the practical difference between 11 and 12 lbs. in carry weight?
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The practical difference is that it's another pound of stuff you can take with you, which can certainly be significant when you're traveling light.
 
heatlesssun said:
I understand that and I understand the desire to minimize carry weight, I'm simply asking what's the practical difference between 11 and 12 lbs. in carry weight? The difference that 1 lbs makes in terms of computing capability however could be very practical, much longer battery life, much faster processing power or both. I wouldn't even no how an healthy, in shape and able bodied person could be practically hampered by carrying a laptop that weighs 4 lbs vs 3 lbs in bag. Again, I understand the desire to want to minimize weight, I just think that at come point the case gets overstated.
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It's a huge difference. And it's more than that - the AC Adapter of an ultrabook is incredible small and light - often less than 1/2 the size of a standard laptop. That's another .5lb right there.

You're looking at things the wrong way. It's not so much that the extra 1lb is going to kill you (but it really is easier to carry for long distances), but it's that you can use that weight for something else that you wouldn't carry otherwise. If your target weight is 15lbs and your laptop is 6, well there goes 33% of your weight. If it's 2.3, that's an additional four pounds of things you can bring that you otherwise would have foregone.

Your points on performance don't hold any water. Yes, a 5lb laptop will be faster than a 2.3lb macbook air. But for the tasks a laptop does, it simply doesn't matter. I edit HD video, do pro audio recording and mixing, and photo editing on my air all the time. It's more than fast enough - it's a Core i7 that goes to 2.9ghz regularly for turbo.

Simply put, the ultrabooks perform not just good enough - but so far better than 99.9% of people's performance needs that it is actually humorous. Once you get the performance you need, additional performance that requires adding weight actually becomes pointless.

Instead of looking at it in terms of "2lbs will get me a quad core laptop," ask yourself if 2lbs extra weight is worth rendering a video file 10 seconds faster.

The clear answer for a truly portable professional is "no."
 
And can we please drop the whole "healthy person" thing? I run a 5:56 mile, play tennis twice a week, lettered in baseball and XC in high school and still play club in college. I understand you are trying for backhanded insults, but let's be honest here.
 
BDS23 said:
There's no way in hell I'll be sticking to an ultrabook/Intel-only graphics combo. Fuck that. I need a dedicated GPU in it, and I really wish there's a true contender for the M11x and M14x right now.
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The m11x is a great machine given the combination of form factor and hardware, it just doesnt have any competition to lower its price.
 
computerpro3 said:
Your points on performance don't hold any water. Yes, a 5lb laptop will be faster than a 2.3lb macbook air. But for the tasks a laptop does, it simply doesn't matter. I edit HD video, do pro audio recording and mixing, and photo editing on my air all the time. It's more than fast enough - it's a Core i7 that goes to 2.9ghz regularly for turbo.

Simply put, the ultrabooks perform not just good enough - but so far better than 99.9% of people's performance needs that it is actually humorous. Once you get the performance you need, additional performance that requires adding weight actually becomes pointless.

Instead of looking at it in terms of "2lbs will get me a quad core laptop," ask yourself if 2lbs extra weight is worth rendering a video file 10 seconds faster.

The clear answer for a truly portable professional is "no."
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You conveniently ignored my point about battery life. I have a lot of mobile devices that can range between 1.5 to 6 lbs. depending on how they are configured. My x220t with the 6 cell battery, a slice battery and external Energizer XP 18000 battery pack can run almost a full solar day away from a socket. There are plenty of professionals that would have no problem taking 24 hours of battery power on a full power i7 mobile dual-core and take the 4.5lbs weight. A lighter device out of power is just a heavy paper weight.

As for you point about performance, having a wide array of devices of different levels of performance I can agree to some extent, again it depends on what you're doing. If you write code and are constantly compiling, those 10 seconds add up. If you're doing one off things not as big of a deal.

You're trying to make it a one-size fits all thing and it's not. Mobility is more than just about carry weight, it's about carry capability. If you need less capability, carry less weight, if you need more capability you'll carry more.
 
computerpro3 said:
And can we please drop the whole "healthy person" thing? I run a 5:56 mile, play tennis twice a week, lettered in baseball and XC in high school and still play club in college. I understand you are trying for backhanded insults, but let's be honest here.
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Can we please drop the whole taking everything personally thing? All I was saying is that the average healthy person isn't going to notice the difference between 11 or 12 lbs, it's certainly not going to make them late or slow them down at the airport if the laptop they're carrying weighs 3 lbs vs 4 lbs with an additional 7 lbs on top of it.
 
heatlesssun said:
You conveniently ignored my point about battery life. I have a lot of mobile devices that can range between 1.5 to 6 lbs. depending on how they are configured. My x220t with the 6 cell battery, a slice battery and external Energizer XP 18000 battery pack can run almost a full solar day away from a socket. There are plenty of professionals that would have no problem taking 24 hours of battery power on a full power i7 mobile dual-core and take the 4.5lbs weight. A lighter device out of power is just a heavy paper weight.

As for you point about performance, having a wide array of devices of different levels of performance I can agree to some extent, again it depends on what you're doing. If you write code and are constantly compiling, those 10 seconds add up. If you're doing one off things not as big of a deal.

You're trying to make it a one-size fits all thing and it's not. Mobility is more than just about carry weight, it's about carry capability. If you need less capability, carry less weight, if you need more capability you'll carry more.
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Thank goodness Joe consumer has a x200t with a 6 cell, slice battery, and massive external battery pack.

Remember the title of the thread?

It's not, "Are ultrabooks good for an incredibly biased Microsoft employee who gets off on using bizarre and unwieldy computing devices?"

It's "Is 2012 slated to be the year of the ultrabook?"

Nobody except you gives a shit about how nice the wacom digitizer on your x220t is. And if it's external battery packs you want, they make ones for the Macbook Air too that will give you just as much runtime.

So, what was your point in relation to the thread again?
 
I'm sorry for snapping, but it's amazing to me how people here tend to think the entire tech universe revolves around them. I'm not sure if you noticed, but mobility actually IS pretty much a one size fits all deal for 95% of the market.

You just happen to fit into the 5% that is left out, and devices like the x220t are great for you.

But realize that for the vast majority of consumers, an ultrabook is absolutely perfect. It is everything that is necessary and desirable, with zero excess weight or thickness. It's the perfect academic, travel, and business machine.

Everyone who's traveled with one will tell you that. Literally the only people who disagree are those who haven't owned them.
 
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