Ipod or dell jukebox?

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isocrazy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
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Hi i was shoppin around for a new mp3 player and came across the imfamous IPOD 20 GB for 400 dollars and the dell 20 gig Jukebox
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...view&sku=HSTD20&c=us&l=en&cs=19&page=external

i was curious to know if anybody has tried the Jukebox and knows if it plays vbr and if its even any good. the ipod ive heard many praises but im going best for the buck and the dell is MUCH cheaper by almost 120 dollars. So any help would be awesome.,
 
Nomad Zen. Double the capacity of a more expensive priced Ipod.

(meaning a 30gb Zen will be cheaper than a 15gb Ipod)
 
iRiver iHP-120, after my soul searching I found it had the best sound quality across a variety of formats, even nudging out the Zen ever so slightly. It's smaller, and has great recording and output features including optical ins and outs.

The iHP-120 is a 20 gig unit that is the same price as the 20 gig iPod but offers a lot more features I find important when it comes to sound. Calendars, games and the like aren't of much interest to me.

YMMV
 
Originally posted by Trekster
Nomad Zen. Double the capacity of a more expensive priced Ipod.

(meaning a 30gb Zen will be cheaper than a 15gb Ipod)
Click to expand...

ditto on the zen. The Xtra is very nice. I was considering getting an ipod, but found that I could get a 40 gig Xtra for the same price as the 15gig Ipod. Not to mention the whole white clean look doesn't appeal to me when I know it's just going to get banged up, and the xtra sounds great.
 
I can't address the Dell Jukebox issue, but I can say something about the Nomad Zen and iPod.

In early June, I was faced with a problem: I'm going to Greece, and I want, nay, NEED to bring my music library with me in order to maintain my sanity. The obvious thing to do was buy a portable mp3 player, and so I started looking, and two mp3 players immediately caught my attention: the Zen and the iPod.

Now the first drawback of both of these is that neither has Ogg support. That being said, here's what affected my purchase:

The Zen's got more bang for the buck, but it only has USB 2.0 support, while the iPod has FireWire support and optional USB 2.0 support. I found this kindof strange, actually. Apparently they USED to make Zens with FireWire support... but no longer. The Zen's got more bang for the buck, but compared to the iPod, its fucking huge... and ugly. Rumor has it that the software that the Zen comes with is horrible... I mean from the way people described it, its like castrating yourself without any anethesia, but you've got the option between MusicMatch and iTunes to use with your iPod (MusicMatch is as slow as fuck... but I dealt with it until iTunes got realeased for PCs... use iTunes if you get an iPod). The iPod doesn't have a good battery life (8 hours compared to 14 (oh, they also die after 18 months, but I have a solution to that)). Blah blah blah, okay I bought an iPod.

Basically what you're paying extra for is the size, since the Zen just uses a laptop harddrive. They're more easily manufactured than their iPod counterparts, or at least that's my theory. But consider these numbers:

Zen Dimensions: 4.4" x 3" x 0.86"
Zen Volume: 11.352 cubic inches

iPod Dimensions: 4.1 " x 2.4 " x 0.62 "
iPod Volume: 6.1008 cubic inches

Difference: 5.2512 cubic inches

The Zen, therefore, is 86.074% larger than the iPod. Essentially two iPods take up the same amount of room as a Zen.

As far as getting banged up, well that's a choice that each owner makes. You handle it rough, you're going to fuck it up. It does come with case which protects the front and back, and has a handy dandy clip to clip... places.

And about the size issue. You don't need anything over 15GB. Seriously. I have 15GB of mp3s, but I only have 7GB of mp3s on my iPod. If you're trying to justify getting a massive hard drive by arguing that you want to have all your music "at your fingertips," just consider how much of that music you actually listen to. The one thing that I regretted was buying a 15BG iPod. The 10 would have suited me just fine, and it would have been lighter.

Hope some of this helps.
 
the new ipods have battery issues not user change able and you have to send it in to apple for them to charge you 200 to replace the battery
 
Incorrect. I'm pretty sure all iPods have that issue. Solution (What I did... althought I didn't know it at the time). Go to Best Buy, buy an iPod and get the 2 year warranty. exactly 18 months after you buy your iPod (the predicted date of the failure of the battery) and give some bogus excuse for why you want to return it. I'm not sure that they'll take it after the battery has already died, since that might be considered normal wear and tear. So once you've done that, you can either replace your ipod or go with something else (in theory... well, as long as you can get them to take it, you're set.).
 
Originally posted by endonosis
Incorrect. I'm pretty sure all iPods have that issue. Solution (What I did... althought I didn't know it at the time). Go to Best Buy, buy an iPod and get the 2 year warranty. exactly 18 months after you buy your iPod (the predicted date of the failure of the battery) and give some bogus excuse for why you want to return it. I'm not sure that they'll take it after the battery has already died, since that might be considered normal wear and tear. So once you've done that, you can either replace your ipod or go with something else (in theory... well, as long as you can get them to take it, you're set.).
Click to expand...
i got a better idea why not just get something that uses normal batteries
 
The battery is one of the biggest (well, smallest) contributers to its tiny size. Substituting it with industry standard batteries would increase the size substantially. Another thing comes to mind: if the battery is a higher quality nickel-metal-hydride, it shouldn't need replacing due to the memory-free recharging abilities. Thus, it shouldn't need to be accessible or user replaceable. Of course, after several hundred recharges, it eventually goes bad, but by then, MP3 will be supplanted by another format probably, and you'll want to upgrade anyway. I like the Best Buy warranty idea though.
 
Originally posted by endonosis
Incorrect. I'm pretty sure all iPods have that issue. Solution (What I did... althought I didn't know it at the time). Go to Best Buy, buy an iPod and get the 2 year warranty. exactly 18 months after you buy your iPod (the predicted date of the failure of the battery) and give some bogus excuse for why you want to return it. I'm not sure that they'll take it after the battery has already died, since that might be considered normal wear and tear. So once you've done that, you can either replace your ipod or go with something else (in theory... well, as long as you can get them to take it, you're set.).
Click to expand...

I know when i bought my Palm m515 from best buy, they specifically sold me the extended warranty so that if the battery died, they'd fix it. It's covered in the documentation I have.
 
I'm hoping it is just an oversight on eveyone elses part and not something that I've done horribly wrong but I just purchaced a Rio Karma 20 gig mp3 player. I spent hours reading about all of the mp3 players I could find info on and came up with a short list that included the Rio Karma, Zen NX 30 gig, 20 gig iPod, the iHP 120, and the new player by Philips. From what I read the design involved in the iPod was head and shoulders above pretty much any other player on the market and that was backed up when I got to fool around with one at a Mac Store. The problem in my book was the short battery life and the fact that you are forced to jump through hoops if you want to upload your music files from your iPod onto your (or your buddies) computer. On top of that is the horrendous price so these ruled the iPod out for me although it sure is sexy :). I agree with emorphien that the iHP 120 is loaded with way more features than the iPod but it also shares the high price tag. I would most certainly gone for this model over the iPod because of the LCD remote and many recording options as well as more inputs and outputs than you could shake your dick at. The Philips player hasn't been mentioned so I won't go into it but it only got luke warm reviews so I passed.
Before I get down to the reasons why I chose the Rio, I did look at the new Dell model but found out that it has very strict digital rights management restrictions built into the firmware and that uploading was nearly impossible from what I'd been told so that ruled it out for me. From here I narrowed my list down to just the Karma and the Zen NX. The Karma won out because it had ethernet support meaning my roommates and myself could essentially store all of our music (or nearly all) on just the Karma and access it anytime it was in the docking station, it has RCA outputs for connection to essentially any stereo system, it has the option to save on-the-fly created playlists which is something even the iPod can't do, automatic custom playlist creation based on your listening history, and it's battery lasts nearly twice as long at the Zen NX (and iPod for that matter). I just found it to have many more features than the Zen NX and I was able to find it at an online retailer for 270 making it only slightly more expensive than the Zen.
Now with all of that said... Did I miss something completely? It seems that this player would have come up at some point throughout this thread unless everyone else knows something that I dont... Please say it isn't so... Let me know what you decide on!
 
Originally posted by Trekster
Nomad Zen. Double the capacity of a more expensive priced Ipod.

(meaning a 30gb Zen will be cheaper than a 15gb Ipod)
Click to expand...

you have heard and used all three?
 
Originally posted by xonik
The battery is one of the biggest (well, smallest) contributers to its tiny size. Substituting it with industry standard batteries would increase the size substantially. Another thing comes to mind: if the battery is a higher quality nickel-metal-hydride, it shouldn't need replacing due to the memory-free recharging abilities. Thus, it shouldn't need to be accessible or user replaceable. Of course, after several hundred recharges, it eventually goes bad, but by then, MP3 will be supplanted by another format probably, and you'll want to upgrade anyway. I like the Best Buy warranty idea though.
Click to expand...

iPod batteries are good for 500 recharge cycles

With normal use the battery will last as long as you still want the iPod
 
Originally posted by endonosis
Now the first drawback of both of these is that neither has Ogg support.
Click to expand...

This can easily be fixed with a firmware upgrade can't it? Not that it matters to me, my library is in mp3 format.

but compared to the iPod, its fucking huge... and ugly.
Click to expand...

It really isn't that ugly. Sure, it's not as good looking as the ipod, and it may not be as small, but I like the simple look to it, and in reality, it's still tiny. I'm able to fit it where I need to, backpack, pants pockets, etc. and still have room.

Rumor has it that the software that the Zen comes with is horrible... I mean from the way people described it, its like castrating yourself without any anethesia
Click to expand...

lol haven't heard that comparison before, but the software isn't that bad. If you're just going to transfer songs to and from your zen xtra, it works perfectly fine, no need to spend 25 dollars on the Notmad software. This is all I do, I edit all of my tags when ripping with EAC. And everything else I could think of wanting to do is done in winamp.

As far as getting banged up, well that's a choice that each owner makes. You handle it rough, you're going to fuck it up. It does come with case which protects the front and back, and has a handy dandy clip to clip... places.
Click to expand...

The Zen Xtra is plenty tough, I've already dropped it several times (in it's case mind you) and still plays fine, no scratches or anything. Then again, although it's treated rough (stays in a student back pack throughout the school day), it does stay in the included case 24/7 except for when I'm wanting to see the song title.

And about the size issue. You don't need anything over 15GB. Seriously. I have 15GB of mp3s, but I only have 7GB of mp3s on my iPod. If you're trying to justify getting a massive hard drive by arguing that you want to have all your music "at your fingertips," just consider how much of that music you actually listen to. The one thing that I regretted was buying a 15BG iPod. The 10 would have suited me just fine, and it would have been lighter.
Click to expand...

I ended up getting the 40 gig because I'm also planning on using the xtra as a secondary storage hard drive for when I'm traveling with family. I don't have much hard drive space on my main rig, so I'll be able to store things that I'd need at friends' houses on the xtra and still have plenty of room for mp3's and everything else.

I'm not trying to diss the ipod in any way. I was actually seriously considering getting one, but the price turned me off really. I haven't actually gotten to play with the ipod yet, sadly as I'd really like to, but I just felt I needed to stand up for the xtra ;) .
 
Originally posted by zachary80
you have heard and used all three?
Click to expand...

i've used all three. owned an ipod for a bit and own a Zen now. my brother has the Dell DJ and i've stolen it a few times to play with it

first off the zen wins on sound. out of the box headphones the ipod wins but pair them with some decent headphones the zen pulls ahead. the Zen and DJ both get louder then the Ipod and when you turn on the car mode on the zen you get a good 10-15% increase in volume from the zen (its meant to make the headphone port act as a line-out for the car).

Interface the ipod is user friendly and is easy to learn. in terms of functionality the Zen pulls ahead again. The zen offers the ability to delete playlists/tracks/albums/artists/genres all from the device itself and the dj can do this too. Playlist on the fly capability while the ipods has improved its still creatives field and its expected to be since they've been doing it since the Jukebox 1. Options wise the Zens user programmable EQ table and EAX functions make it a winner considering they're options on an MP3 PLAYER that deal with sound. the DJ offers recording if you're into that but doesnt feature the EAX options (seriously, theres some useful things with EAX). search functions on a Zen/DJ allow searching by title, artist, album, genre, and playlist and i never checked on the dj but the zen allows you to exclude "the" in searching. i also like the screensavers on the Xtra and the clock at the top of the screen.

batter life is a given. DJ, Xtra, Ipod in that order. the Zen is the only player out that features a removable battery.

price heh no brainer the Zen Xtra is by far the better deal.

Zen Xtra
30gig - $220
40gig - $249
60gig - $399 avalible at creative.com and select online retailers only

Ipod
15gig - $299
20gig - $399
40gig - $499

Dell DJ
15gig - $224
20gig - $269


also i'd like to note the Dell DJ is made and supported by Creative. the first clue is firmware. the Zen and DJ firmware is almost identical except for a few added icons and displays on the Zen.
 
Originally posted by JoJoFine
...i love creative...
Click to expand...

Thanks mr fanboy, but I wasn't talking to you. I know and understand that you have tried all three, which makes me want to encourage you posting. The following are for you to respond to:

1) Once again, I ask. How loud do you need your mp3 player? Are you partially deaf? Yes, it is nice that they all get louder than an iPod, but I havn't had my iPod above 1/2 since afer that it is nearing the pain threshhold.

2) I believe the most recent firmware for the new (3rd generation) iPods supports playlists on the fly.

3) Equalizers suck

4) Search is a benefit, but is it necessary with a correctly-tagged legal library of MP3s?

No more arguements on the rest. And yes, the iPod is priced high.

edit3: undid the edits
 
Originally posted by zachary80

1) Once again, I ask. How loud do you need your mp3 player? Are you partially deaf? Yes, it is nice that they all get louder than an iPod, but I havn't had my iPod above 1/2 since afer that it is nearing the pain threshhold.

2) I believe the most recent firmware for the new (3rd generation) iPods supports playlists on the fly.

3) Equalizers suck

4) Search is a benefit, but is it necessary with a correctly-tagged legal library of MP3s?

No more arguements on the rest. And yes, the iPod is priced high.
Click to expand...

1. volume is based on what you plug into. with headphones i dont usually go over 20 but while in the car or somewhere i tend to turn it higher

2. and i know it supports it, its how it works is the problem. the zen for example lets you throw in whatever you want and remove what you dont want if you accidentally put something in.

3. users choice :eek:. eax features a little thing called smart volume which locks all tracks to the same volume. i mean we've all had times where we get some music and one track comes on quiet kinda so you need to turn it up then its over and then its blaring in your ears. with smart volume all tracks are the same volume.

4. legal or not its nice to have. say i have 5 different tracks all labeled "happy tart" from 5 different artist. i can in 30seconds tops have all 5 in my play list using the search.
 
Originally posted by JoJoFine
1. volume is based on what you plug into. with headphones i dont usually go over 20 but while in the car or somewhere i tend to turn it higher

2. and i know it supports it, its how it works is the problem. the zen for example lets you throw in whatever you want and remove what you dont want if you accidentally put something in.
Click to expand...

1) I was thinking stock headphones. Although my max volume didn't change with my hd497's or mdr7509's.

2) I still havn't tried the newest firmware out. Just making sure that he original poster knew.
 
This can easily be fixed with a firmware upgrade can't it? Not that it matters to me, my library is in mp3 format.
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"Easily"?
Depends on the size of the buffer in the player and depends what you mean by "support".
Even players that "officially" support Ogg Vorbis can occasionally have problems playing certain files because the frame size is highly variable and can cause an overrun, especially with certain classical music.

I would never, ever, ever, ever count on Apple or Creative implementing Ogg Vorbis support in their players just because it might be possible.

Apple sells AAC files on line (AAC sounds very good for how compressed it is), and Creative undoubtedly wishes to tap the online WMA (ugh) sales market.

It might also be "possible" to implement FLAC, MPC and an encrypted psychic codec used by the Venusian bounty hunter league. But it ain't gonna happen, because more codecs means more crap to support.
Apple and (especially) Creative don't like supporting things they don't absolutely have to.

iRiver and Rio have Ogg Vorbis support in certain players already, so if someone wants ogg support they would be a fool not to buy one that supports it already.
 
OGG is a difficult beast to add in to some units because of the processing power to pull out the track. It's tougher than MP3 and AAC, and I don't know how well the iPods could handle it. It's possible they'd do fine but given the sound quality with MP3 I'm not sure you'd benefit from more advanced formats (depending on how you look at ogg).

If you're interested in the sound quality and output level the Creative is a great unit, I just couldn't personally carry that around so I payed the premium for the iRiver, the sound is just as good if not better but its a lot smaller. They have a 40 gig version coming, but I expect it to cost the same as the 40 gig iPod (which still makes it a better deal than the iPod IMO). Of course if 40 gigs still isn't enough then you're back to Creative again for a 60 gig unit. That's a lot of room I'd never use though.
:cool:

I've heard of some people really loving the Rio, others hating it, so I really don't know what to say on it. The Philips gets modest reveiws, it might have the funkiest case of all of them, but sound quality is supposedly middling (worse than iPod) and there's other problems I'm not so up on.
 
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