I have the Beyerdynamic DT770's, an X-Fi Extreme Music soundcard, and a PA2V2 headphone amp. Will the quality of sound that comes out of my headphones improve with either a soundcard or headphone amp upgrade? If so, what would your suggestions be for $400 or less? Thanks!
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Improving quality of computer + DT770's
- Thread starter Khaydarin
- Start date
aren't the DT770's like 300 or 400 ohms and fairly insensitive, and isn't the PA2V2 some tiny little AAA-battery powered thing designed for ipods or something like that?
I'm going to venture that the sound quality probably won't improve "a lot" with a better soundcard, but will probably improve "decently" with a more suitable amplifier (if I'm thinking of the right amplifier)
I'd consider killing two birds with one stone, and getting a soundcard with a built-in headphone amplifier (like X-Fi Forte), if you really feel the need to upgrade, mostly because you'll ensure that the drivers are being driven cleanly across the freq range, and you'll have all of the X-Fi toys (I don't remember if ExtremeMusic or ExtremeAudio is the rebadged SB Value, but if you have that, replace that, it'll improve things for gaming and whatnot)
I'm going to venture that the sound quality probably won't improve "a lot" with a better soundcard, but will probably improve "decently" with a more suitable amplifier (if I'm thinking of the right amplifier)
I'd consider killing two birds with one stone, and getting a soundcard with a built-in headphone amplifier (like X-Fi Forte), if you really feel the need to upgrade, mostly because you'll ensure that the drivers are being driven cleanly across the freq range, and you'll have all of the X-Fi toys (I don't remember if ExtremeMusic or ExtremeAudio is the rebadged SB Value, but if you have that, replace that, it'll improve things for gaming and whatnot)
It depends; the most common "bass monster" dt770's are the 80ohm version. There is also a 250 and 600ohm version that are less common but the general dt770 that everyone gets is the 80ohm version (very generally speaking). I recently picked up an ASUS Xonar Essence STX soundcard, definite improvement over my onboard and somewhat comparable to my Headamp Pico dac/amp
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oh, so we're likely talking about a headphone thats somewhat easier to drive (in the sense that, most amps will play nicer with a somewhat lower impedance (this is not to say that impedance is the sole deciding factor for driving a device, its more that most headphone outputs are "supposed to" be set to around 120 ohms, 80 is a lot closer than 600 = likely more efficient))
Yup, they're somewhat forgiving headphones. They benefit slightly from quality amping, but IMO they're more of a gaming headphone than a sit down and contemplate life while listening to music headphone. I also agree that impedance is not the sole deciding factor; my k701's are notoriously difficult to properly drive at 62ohms on the flip side HD650's are not an easy load at 300ohms. Btw, where did you get the 120ohm number from?
OP: as long as you have the 80ohm version, there honestly won't be too much of a gain from getting a different amp, you would get a different sound by changing your sound card though it's difficult to say if it'll be to your tastes.
OP: as long as you have the 80ohm version, there honestly won't be too much of a gain from getting a different amp, you would get a different sound by changing your sound card though it's difficult to say if it'll be to your tastes.
IEC 61938 (really stupid basic explanation: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/headphone_attenuator.html)
basically: 120 ohms 5V
the idea is that you've got a decent "mid-line" on your output, so devices across a decent range will be compatible (calculator for the lazy: http://www.cvs1.uklinux.net/calculators/)
this doesn't mean everyone follows it (usually "audiophile" companies couldn't spell IEC with help), but its the ideal "line" to shoot for
quasi-unrelated document that I'm linking just for its pure awesomeness:
http://www.afrotechmods.com/reallycheap/soundcard/sennheiser.htm
basically, you can drive "complex" headphones with inexpensive circuits, there is no need for fancy pants audiophile hardware, although I'm not saying we should all go out and buy the cheapest possible hardware for the most expensive possible headphones, but the point is, driving the load is possible from many sources, the only "difference" is the "different sound" you mention (I use the word "distortion", but we're talking about the same thing), basically the subjective differences between equipment, and thats entirely up to the user what works or not
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I'm not sure if it's correct to use such a blanket statement as distortion to account for all the differences in sound, but I do agree that you can drive a headphone with a reasonably priced amp. On the other hand, I've found that sources (soundcards, dacs, etc) vary quite a bit depending on the output stage and dac within the source.
for pure awesomeness:
the beta22 headphon amp: http://www.amb.org/audio/beta22/
for pure awesomeness:
the beta22 headphon amp: http://www.amb.org/audio/beta22/
I'm using the word distortion to mean ANYTHING different from "ruler flat response", as generally those differences account for the subjective variations reported in devices, not just "bad gremlins in the signal"
I'm sure theres a better word for it
and I think the B22 is a bit "insane" for this thread
ah, well I'd probably get a headphone amp soundcard, like the Forte or STX, given the gaming/movies usage (the DSP effects can be invaluable there), and the amp will easily handle your cans
I'm using the word distortion to mean ANYTHING different from "ruler flat response", as generally those differences account for the subjective variations reported in devices, not just "bad gremlins in the signal"
I'm sure theres a better word for it
and I think the B22 is a bit "insane" for this thread
I guess if you use the term that way I can see where you're coming from. As for the b22, hey, I just wanted to join in the awesomeness posting
Khaydarin: as obobski said, headphone amp soundcard would work well for ya.
Daishiknyte
Limp Gawd
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- Nov 24, 2004
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Don't forget to use higher quality rips. 128 and 192kbit mp3s don't cut it with a better setup.
Eh, 192k VBR MP3 can be pretty solid depending on what the data is. If it's making a 4.4kHz beep every five seconds, compression is pretty much a non-issue. On the other hand, Bach can be just plain tricky.
I don't know about that because it is a fairly common issue that people ask how to get rid of over at headfi and I have experienced it myself. Even using a HT receiver digital I/O is preferable. You can get decent head amps with DAC for not too much more than just a head amp.
128kb/s is undesirable but I can't tell dif between 192kb/s and 256kb/s. YMMV.
not to be rude, but consider the source
a proper soundcard will rarely, if ever, have issues with interference, unless the board you receive is defective (in which case, you can either be a typical whiney ami and return the product and make some widesweeping overgenerlization, or you can do the sensible thing and return it for a replacement)
the majority of instances of noise come from poorly designed and even worse implemented onboard solutions, a number of users at [H] have reported this to be on the decline as many mainboard vendors are working to correct these kinds of problems and produce a higher quality product (and they don't have much else to "one up" the other guy with at this point)
I'm not saying external solutions are bad, but it gets A LOT of hype and is basically "sold" to users by other users who buy into the whole hysteria fiesta surrounding it
also, OP said he games, which means that a soundcard has many advantages for him over the stereotypical USB kit
also, theres an edit post button for future reference
Not to be rude but I disagree. Yes, they have gotten better but it's not just the mb that can be an issue, PSU, video card, HDD, basically anything inside has the potential to cause the issue. The inside of a computer is an extremely electrical noisy environment and is why just about all audiophiles use an external solution and not because they have fallen for the hype. You can get external solutions that cost no more or less than an internal soundcard so I see no reason not to remove that potential downside of internal. I use internal for games but for music I use external and can use either EMU 0404 hooked up to tube headphone amp or Denon HT receiver. Both sound very good and in hindsight I would have been happy with just the Denon receiver and didn't really need the EMU 0404 and tube amp. Yes, I admit I fell for the hype on that purchase.
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Not to be rude but I disagree. Yes, they have gotten better but it's not just the mb that can be an issue, PSU, video card, HDD, basically anything inside has the potential to cause the issue. The inside of a computer is an extremely electrical noisy environment and is why just about all audiophiles use an external solution and not because they have fallen for the hype. You can get external solutions that cost no more or less than an internal soundcard so I see no reason not to remove that potential downside of internal. I use internal for games but for music I use external and can use either EMU 0404 hooked up to tube headphone amp or Denon HT receiver. Both sound very good and in hindsight I would have been happy with just the Denon receiver and didn't really need the EMU 0404 and tube amp. Yes, I admit I fell for the hype on that purchase.
disagree all you like, but it doesn't change the reality of it
internal solutions are not a guarantee of noise or problems, and generally offer more processing and I/O features for the dollar, along with comparable or better quality, until you get into the stupidly expensive realm (at which point you're just paying a feel-good tax)
I didn't say it was a "guarantee", I said "potential". Perhaps you need a dictionary and thesaurus for Xmas? The reality is it can be an issue and I have experienced it on more than one occasion, and it's not due to a bad mb as you claimed. It's a shielding issue, most of the devices inside your PC has no shielding, an external device is shielded and physically removed from that environment. It's just common sense dude and not hype so stop arguing with me and wake up and smell the coffee.
I will say some on-board solutions have terrible background noise issues. Not arguing for or against, just saying there are cases where electrical noise is a factor
Full disclosure: I have a STX sound card and am building a gamma2 dac, so I'm a bit on the kool-aid side, though I enjoy it more as a hobby than something I need to fight for/rationalize. Maybe that's just me.
Full disclosure: I have a STX sound card and am building a gamma2 dac, so I'm a bit on the kool-aid side, though I enjoy it more as a hobby than something I need to fight for/rationalize. Maybe that's just me.
I will say some on-board solutions have terrible background noise issues. Not arguing for or against, just saying there are cases where electrical noise is a factor
Full disclosure: I have a STX sound card and am building a gamma2 dac, so I'm a bit on the kool-aid side, though I enjoy it more as a hobby than something I need to fight for/rationalize. Maybe that's just me.
I said onboard usually has problems, not all but some (usually the older the mainboard, the higher chance of issues)
nothing to fight over though
yeah, because thousands of consumers squawking about is totally an empiric source of knowledge, and collegiate coursework and professional training/experience is entirely a waste of time
yep....
you've still failed to actually address or substantiate your claims, aside from just insulting me because I disagree and assuming thats proper rhetoric
"p.s. - an audiophile isn't going to be using a computer for a "source".
Oh, how wrong you are. A computer has less jitter than any dedicated cdrom player. Computers can be made into very high end audio sources so long as you listen to good advice.
Diplomacy is for politicians and I don't take friendly to people that contradict me.
If you can't respond well to people who disagree with you, I highly suggest you unplug your ethernet cable. Debating technology and opinions here is fine, but you are absolutely required to be civil. -Oldie
Oh, how wrong you are. A computer has less jitter than any dedicated cdrom player. Computers can be made into very high end audio sources so long as you listen to good advice.
Diplomacy is for politicians and I don't take friendly to people that contradict me.
If you can't respond well to people who disagree with you, I highly suggest you unplug your ethernet cable. Debating technology and opinions here is fine, but you are absolutely required to be civil. -Oldie
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http://gizmodo.com/5429170/incredib...o-swear-they-can-hear-the-difference/gallery/
Ayre Acoustics QB-9 DAC
Audiophiles aren't just vinyl-loving holdouts from 1975—they're a forward-looking group, and they certainly haven't ignored the computer's contribution to music consumption. But pumping audio through the built-in DAC in a computer just isn't going to cut it for true audiophiles; it's filled with noise from a computer's internals and all kinds of sacrifices had to be made in quality, for size and power reasons. Enter the QB-9 DAC. It has a single input, USB, and includes all kinds of complicated mechanics designed to turn your computer into a legitimate high-end audio source. $2,500.
Ayre Acoustics QB-9 DAC
Audiophiles aren't just vinyl-loving holdouts from 1975—they're a forward-looking group, and they certainly haven't ignored the computer's contribution to music consumption. But pumping audio through the built-in DAC in a computer just isn't going to cut it for true audiophiles; it's filled with noise from a computer's internals and all kinds of sacrifices had to be made in quality, for size and power reasons. Enter the QB-9 DAC. It has a single input, USB, and includes all kinds of complicated mechanics designed to turn your computer into a legitimate high-end audio source. $2,500.
Oldie
Mean Old Administrator
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- Jan 12, 2004
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Back on topic here guys.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2000
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Oldies right.. let's keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
as far as improving the 770's.. you could always try a recable. I noticed a slight upgrade after my 80ohms were done. I also plastered the inside with bluetack to mass load the cups a bit. I don't think this was a good idea since it also reduced the interior volume of the cups as well. I'll try to remove some and see if it makes a difference. You can also see a pic of my recabled cans in the pic thread.
as far as improving the 770's.. you could always try a recable. I noticed a slight upgrade after my 80ohms were done. I also plastered the inside with bluetack to mass load the cups a bit. I don't think this was a good idea since it also reduced the interior volume of the cups as well. I'll try to remove some and see if it makes a difference. You can also see a pic of my recabled cans in the pic thread.
Thanks for all the help so far... I'm going to get either the Xonar Essence STX or the Auzentech Forte, but I'm stuck as to which one would be better. I game, listen to music, and watch movies, and I use my DT770's (250 ohm) and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers almost equally. Any suggestions as to which card I should opt for?
mangamonster
n00b
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2007
- Messages
- 50
Great thread.
Someday I hope to audition the b22 with my k701's. I hear nothing but good things about it. Unfortunately, I don't have the skill set to build one and the price I was quoted at to have it built was way beyond my budget