Headphone Amps?

M

mike_j_johnson

Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2004
Messages
961
I am thinking of getting rid of my Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1 set in favor of a new pair of AKG K 701 headphones. These will be used with a Auzentech Predule X-Fi sound card.

Here are my questions:

1. I keep reading that high-end headphones need an amp. Do all amps have their own OPAMPs/DACs?

2. I want to use the Prelude's OPAMPs/DACs...is this possible when using a headphone amp? (is there some way to bypass or disable the OMAMPs/DACs on the amp? ...maybe I am just clueless on what I am talking about LOL!)

3. Do I even need a headphone amp with the Prelude?

4. Would it be a waste of time and money to even switch to the headphone world? My goal is to increase audio quality and simplify my setup without having to integrate my PC with my Home Theater.
 
It will sound better. If you use the sub with the headphones it sounds fun. No the Prelude is not enough. You need an amp.

However, if you can use speakers then take the $$ for the 701 and buy a decent reciever like the Panasonic XR-55 and a av123 5.1 setup and JAM.
 
i agree... if you like what a sub has to offer then you may feel underwhelmed with a headphone setup as your only system. there are guys who use a sub to augment the bottom end but i dont know how to set that stuff up so a search will been a good start.

i am planning on getting the akg 701 cans and a fubar amp with the matching cute dac after the holidays but am not using it as a speaker replacement. when it comes time i will be working out how the sub will mesh and calibrating volume.

in the end speakers are just more fun to listen to while less user friendly, far more convenient.
 
Yeah, I could integrate my PC with my HT setup, but it would be a pain in the arse to get bit perfect multi-channel audio to my receiver to decode (bitstream). If I want OpenAL/EAX in games, then the card has to decode the signal, so then I would need some sort of lossless mult-channel PCM which requires HDMI. I am not sure it is even currently possible unless I go the analog route (rather than some sort of future HDMI solution).

My HT setup includes an Onkyo TXSR805, Ascend Acoustics speakers & a HSU Research sub.

I just want to be able to play games and not hear my computer (fans, etc.), be quiet for those late night gaming sessions and have audio quality superior to my current setup (Klipsch 5.1). This would also simplify and clean-up my setup (less cables, clutter, etc.) Again, I want to use the DACs and the OPAMPs from the Prelude along with the headphones. It just seems to me like an AMP would force me to use the Amp's DACs and OPAMPs. Can anyone edumacate me on this? heh
 
Don't take my word on this as gospel as I have no headphone amp, but I believe there is a difference between just an amp and an amp w/ DAC. If you're worried about having to use the DAC, I know there are amps without DACs.
 
Ok. well for late-night keeping it quiet the 701 is great. Like I say in the sticky though, there is no real bass impact. You will LOVE how 3D the 701 sounds but while you hear the bass notes there is little impact. I suggest a decent amp or dac/amp combo. Give me a budget and I can be more specific.
 
mike_j_johnson said:
Again, I want to use the DACs and the OPAMPs from the Prelude along with the headphones. It just seems to me like an AMP would force me to use the Amp's DACs and OPAMPs. Can anyone edumacate me on this? heh
Click to expand...
Headphone amps and DACs tend to be two separate things; I can only think of a few that do both. And the op-amps are part of the DAC.

You'd be sending the analog line out signal from your Prelude to the amp's input, and then the output signal of the amp into your headphones. All of the digital to analog conversion would be done by the Prelude.
 
DAC stands for 'digital-to-analog converter' so anything which converts any digital format [optical, coaxial, USB, Firewire, etc.] to analog [RCA, headphone, etc.] has a DAC in it. Op amps are used as filtering and sometimes current-to-voltage conversion on the output of a DAC. DACs produce high order harmonics due to the conversion which is done outside the DAC by an op amp in all but the cheapest DACs. Any sound card with analog outputs worth it's salt will have op amps after the DAC.

Virtually all amplifiers have op amps in them. Usually they're used in the input section and can be in all other places throughout an amplifier. An op amp is what you think of as an audio amplifier, it just doesn't handle high voltages and currents [although there are some pretty beefy op amps]. Unfortunately, it appears you don't know what you're talking about. You shouldn't bypass anything inside an electronic component unless you really know what you're doing. If an amp has only an analog input, it doesn't have a DAC in it so you'd be using the Prelude's DAC.

What is the difference between you using AMP and amp??

I used to have a Klipsch 2.1 and 4.1 and I opened them up and know exactly what's in it and how it works. I created schematics for both. So while I can't speak for the 5.1, it's pretty likely it shares a lot in common. If that's the case, it will use a TL07x op amp powering a very crappy discrete class B amp using a 3904/3906 pair of transistors to drive the headphone output. This circuit is cheap but sounds awful compared to even a mediocre op amp. There are plenty of alternative circuits that could you easily build right onto the PCB on your 5.1 control board and get a much improved sound. You can PM me if you'd like to explore this route.

Alternatively, there are good external DACs and headphone amps. I only have experience with the Benchmark DAC1 and some personal projects. Headroom also has a great reputation. Headphone amps and separate DACs just cost a heinous amount versus the component prices - there's almost certainly less than $50 of parts in the DAC1 and it costs $1k!! I would check out the Head Fi forums for help on your options and how this gear stacks up if you're interested in buying a headphone amp and/or DAC.
 
mike_j_johnson said:
Yeah, I could integrate my PC with my HT setup, but it would be a pain in the arse to get bit perfect multi-channel audio to my receiver to decode (bitstream). If I want OpenAL/EAX in games, then the card has to decode the signal, so then I would need some sort of lossless mult-channel PCM which requires HDMI. I am not sure it is even currently possible unless I go the analog route (rather than some sort of future HDMI solution).

My HT setup includes an Onkyo TXSR805, Ascend Acoustics speakers & a HSU Research sub.

I just want to be able to play games and not hear my computer (fans, etc.), be quiet for those late night gaming sessions and have audio quality superior to my current setup (Klipsch 5.1). This would also simplify and clean-up my setup (less cables, clutter, etc.) Again, I want to use the DACs and the OPAMPs from the Prelude along with the headphones. It just seems to me like an AMP would force me to use the Amp's DACs and OPAMPs. Can anyone edumacate me on this? heh
Click to expand...

Have you considered using the analog inputs on the receiver to hook up your sound card? That would solve the OpenAL/EAX issues and will simplify the whole situation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top