Having trouble choosing a 4090 manufacturer (or whether to get it)

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Where is the whine coming from then? My bet is on the UPS unit.

I got pretty close to the UPS unit, but I didn't really hear anything from it except very minor fan noise. As I said I think this EVGA unit is pretty high quality. If you listen to the second video I posted, which has what the coil whine sounds like during Stable DIffusion, I don't really think that's the kind of sound you would hear from a power supply whining, just intuitively. Sounds somehow data-based (best way I can describe it). It's mildly dial-up modem-ish. I don't know if motherboards whine, though lol. Maybe RAM sticks...? But it definitely sounds like it's coming from the GPU, or very close to it.

I guess since it doesn't seem to matter which GPU I get, I'll just live with it. It's really not very loud anyway, and now that I know it's not likely to be the GPU, I guess it just is what it is.

 

[vick1000]

So unfortunately it turns out that the card wasn't whining after all. I put the new Gigabyte in and heard the exact same whine during stable diffusion. Confused, I put my 3080 Ti back in and this time got much closer than I generally did when listening. Turns out the 3080 Ti also had the exact same whine, it was just a decent bit quieter. I wonder if this is related to the PCIE slot itself somehow, rather than the GPU. The increase in whine probably has something to do with the much higher data throughput of the 4090.

Of course this is just pure conjecture.

Well, I got the Gigabyte 4090 Gaming installed. The support bracket is a really nice touch. The cooler is what surprised the heck out of me, though. Even while running Cyberpunk or any of the most demanding games, this is basically as hot as it got:
View attachment 590970
Unfortunately clipped off, but that is core temp, hot spot, and memory temp, respectively. The memory temp is much lower than the AIO unit, and the GPU temp is... not really much higher than the AIO unit. Plus, I don't have to worry about this cooler failing.worst case, a fan might fail and that's about it.

Unfortunately, a downside is that it doesn't boost as high. I saw around 2730-2745 after long runtimes in Cyberpunk. The MSI boosted to 2790 and stayed there pretty much constantly. I'm kind of confused if Gigabyte just underclocked this on purpose to not compete with their AORUS line, because the thermal headroom seems to be more than there considering it caps out at 65C (and that's with the fans still relatively inaudible). I think it's a mere 2% clock difference, so I'm not sure if I care enough. The memory temps make me very happy, and it's also cheaper yet carries a longer warranty.

Tradeoffs, I guess.

Nabbed the new Harry Potter game (actually another impetus for me to get this; the reports that it outscaled 12GB vram) and tried playing it, played absolutely flawlessly, with the highest load I saw being ~88% with everything absolutely maxed at 3440x1440. This is a really good card for 3440x1440. I can't really imagine anything easily outscaling its capacity... well then again... I'm sure some lazy dev out there will prove me wrong within 1-2 years.

UE5 games will probably burst that bubble at first.

 

[vick1000]

I got pretty close to the UPS unit, but I didn't really hear anything from it except very minor fan noise. As I said I think this EVGA unit is pretty high quality. If you listen to the second video I posted, which has what the coil whine sounds like during Stable DIffusion, I don't really think that's the kind of sound you would hear from a power supply whining, just intuitively. Sounds somehow data-based (best way I can describe it). It's mildly dial-up modem-ish. I don't know if motherboards whine, though lol. Maybe RAM sticks...? But it definitely sounds like it's coming from the GPU, or very close to it.

I guess since it doesn't seem to matter which GPU I get, I'll just live with it. It's really not very loud anyway, and now that I know it's not likely to be the GPU, I guess it just is what it is.

99% of the time it's GPU/ PSU. Run Furmark at 1440p and 8x AA torture, and listen, then Prime 95 small FFT by itself as se if it changes. If you don't hear it coming from the exhaust area of the PSU, it's the GPU. Also frame cap or vsync should change it.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

99% of the time it's GPU/ PSU. Run Furmark at 1440p and 8x AA torture, and listen, then Prime 95 small FFT by itself as se if it changes. If you don't hear it coming from the exhaust area of the PSU, it's the GPU. Also frame cap or vsync should change it.

I only managed to listen to it a little bit before I left for work, but it did sound like it was coming from the GPU area. While I could still hear it from the PSU, that's only because of its proximity to the GPU. The PSU itself definitely did not sound like the source.

What are the odds of three GPUs, one of which is not even of the same generation, having the exact same sound signature? What I mean is that the highs, lows, and frequency of the Stable Diffusion coil whine was basically exactly the same across all three. All that changed was it was quieter for the 3080 Ti. It just seems unlikely.

 

[vick1000]

I only managed to listen to it a little bit before I left for work, but it did sound like it was coming from the GPU area. While I could still hear it from the PSU, that's only because of its proximity to the GPU. The PSU itself definitely did not sound like the source.

What are the odds of three GPUs, one of which is not even of the same generation, having the exact same sound signature? What I mean is that the highs, lows, and frequency of the Stable Diffusion coil whine was basically exactly the same across all three. All that changed was it was quieter for the 3080 Ti. It just seems unlikely.

That's why I told you to stress the CPU and GPU separately, to narrow the source. If the GPUs are all the same design with the same chokes/ inductors, it's highly likely. Some cards are even rebranded PNY or OEM builds.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

That's why I told you to stress the CPU and GPU separately, to narrow the source. If the GPUs are all the same design with the same chokes/ inductors, it's highly likely. Some cards are even rebranded PNY or OEM builds.

The problem is that during gaming (and I assume Furmark), it's probably just going to be a flat buzzing sound because that's similar enough to gaming. How do I test the CPU in a Stable Diffusion-like workload, without using the GPU? I'll see what I can do when I get home, but assuming that it is a GPU issue, how do I avoid PNY or an OEM brand exactly?

 

[KickAssCop]

Dude if you have gone through 3 video cards, then it can only be the PSU. I can't think of anything else causing this level of coil whine. And at least in the videos that is not silent. If it were me, the PC would've been dismantled or thrown out by now. Damn.

P.S. I have never heard of CPU coil whine. I have heard of motherboard coil whine though unless the person above me meant motherboard whine.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Dude if you have gone through 3 video cards, then it can only be the PSU. I can't think of anything else causing this level of coil whine. And at least in the videos that is not silent. If it were me, the PC would've been dismantled or thrown out by now. Damn.

P.S. I have never heard of CPU coil whine. I have heard of motherboard coil whine though unless the person above me meant motherboard whine.

That's because I took the mic on my cell phone and basically shoved it right up against the rear end of the GPU. In the current room where this thing is located, where I'm sitting at, it's basically inaudible. And I have pretty sharp hearing. If it was in a much quieter room, I probably could hear it a little bit. For gaming, the buzzing is basically under the level of the actual fan noise. For Stable Diffusion, the system is much more silent with my current fan profile.

Anyway, I can certainly try another PSU (I guess that's where part of the 123$ I saved by switching to Gigabyte could go to), but it feels very wasteful just discarding an EVGA P2 for this, especially if it doesn't end up fixing the issue.... hmmm... and I don't think my Seasonic 850 GX Focus would suffice to even try powering this thing on (just as a test), because I don't think it has enough individual PCIE cables. At least one of the connectors would have to be a daisy chained one, due to what wiring they provided...

Not sure what to do, there. Maybe "nothing" is the answer.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Well, on the other hand, I guess if I got a newer PSU, I could use that much smaller new ATX connector... That would save a lot of wire clutter.

 

[Furious_Styles]

That's because I took the mic on my cell phone and basically shoved it right up against the rear end of the GPU. In the current room where this thing is located, where I'm sitting at, it's basically inaudible. And I have pretty sharp hearing. If it was in a much quieter room, I probably could hear it a little bit. For gaming, the buzzing is basically under the level of the actual fan noise. For Stable Diffusion, the system is much more silent with my current fan profile.

Anyway, I can certainly try another PSU (I guess that's where part of the 123$ I saved by switching to Gigabyte could go to), but it feels very wasteful just discarding an EVGA P2 for this, especially if it doesn't end up fixing the issue.... hmmm... and I don't think my Seasonic 850 GX Focus would suffice to even try powering this thing on (just as a test), because I don't think it has enough individual PCIE cables. At least one of the connectors would have to be a daisy chained one, due to what wiring they provided...

Not sure what to do, there. Maybe "nothing" is the answer.

The 850 GX would absolutely work at turning it on and probably have no issues with single component testing.

 

[KickAssCop]

Look, if it works for you that's great. I don't think it is the graphics card anymore. You went through 3 of them so just doesn't seem likely.

 

[vick1000]

The problem is that during gaming (and I assume Furmark), it's probably just going to be a flat buzzing sound because that's similar enough to gaming. How do I test the CPU in a Stable Diffusion-like workload, without using the GPU? I'll see what I can do when I get home, but assuming that it is a GPU issue, how do I avoid PNY or an OEM brand exactly?

We just want to stress the PSU by itself as much as possible. Prime small FFT will push it s hard as possible without stressing the GPU. That way we can eliminate the PSU as the culprit. Also, if it's the PSU, it should be more audible at the exhaust area of the PSU, than inside the case.

 

[pavel]

That's because I took the mic on my cell phone and basically shoved it right up against the rear end of the GPU. In the current room where this thing is located, where I'm sitting at, it's basically inaudible. And I have pretty sharp hearing. If it was in a much quieter room, I probably could hear it a little bit. For gaming, the buzzing is basically under the level of the actual fan noise. For Stable Diffusion, the system is much more silent with my current fan profile.

Anyway, I can certainly try another PSU (I guess that's where part of the 123$ I saved by switching to Gigabyte could go to), but it feels very wasteful just discarding an EVGA P2 for this, especially if it doesn't end up fixing the issue.... hmmm... and I don't think my Seasonic 850 GX Focus would suffice to even try powering this thing on (just as a test), because I don't think it has enough individual PCIE cables. At least one of the connectors would have to be a daisy chained one, due to what wiring they provided...

Not sure what to do, there. Maybe "nothing" is the answer.

Sorry to beat a dead horse if you already said which cards you got - but, could you repeat? I agree with 'KAC' - I think it's your psu /cables or both. The chances of trying 3 different 4090s and having coil whine with ALL of them seems pretty remote to me. Maybe you should head off to a casino. No, seriously, that sucks - but, it is probably something else.
I only really like Corsair and Seasonic power supplies - I wouldn't touch an EVGA - regardless of what their rep for psus are - I know there are fans of them.
There's also some ppl who blame the mobo - but, I don't see that as being the culprit either. I would try another PSU to see if you still have the coil whine - if you have checked other possible noise sources - you're sure it's not other fans or parts, right?

Edit: a Seasonic GX 850 should be sufficient to power it on (and test) - I looked up what I'd need for my Corsair RM850x - and I feel like it'd be okay to use with a 4080 or 4090.

This reddit post is talking about my Corsair psu - but a Seasonic 850w should be the same idea. Maybe it might help ease any confusion (I don't know anything about the cable connection so I'd be reading this or asking questions myself):
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/y4lj45/rm_850x_and_4090/

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

We just want to stress the PSU by itself as much as possible. Prime small FFT will push it s hard as possible without stressing the GPU. That way we can eliminate the PSU as the culprit. Also, if it's the PSU, it should be more audible at the exhaust area of the PSU, than inside the case.

Tell you what, I have an idea. I already have my Seasonic GX 850 hooked up to a separate computer that has much 3080 Ti running in it (on a Linux distro, doing Stable Diffusion work). The platform is a mini ITX 11400F build, so completely different motherboard... but doesn't really matter, it's in a large enough case. Narrowing this issue down is actually going to be really simple. I'll first test closely to see if my 3080 Ti is experiencing any coil whine at all in the other build while doing SD. Then I'll simply take my 4090 out of my current machine and put it in the other one. I'm going to have to be careful here... the GX 850 only has 3 individual connectors (each with a daisy chained tip on it). So one of the connectors will be daisy chained. I hope that doesn't cause any issues, but Stable Diffusion doesn't use quite as much consistent wattage as hardcore gaming... anyway, I'll just try briefly running Stable Diffusion on the machine after swapping the GPU out into it. If I don't have any coil whine, then I'll just take my EVGA Supernova computer, put it side by side, and then try to hook the connectors into the other computer... I guess... if they reach. I think the 11400F is also a very low TDP part.

That should completely determine the issue. If it's a motherboard/RAM problem, then using my EVGA power supply with the new motherboard would detect that, too.

That should narrow things down quite definitively.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Sorry to beat a dead horse if you already said which cards you got - but, could you repeat? I agree with 'KAC' - I think it's your psu /cables or both. The chances of trying 3 different 4090s and having coil whine with ALL of them seems pretty remote to me. Maybe you should head off to a casino. No, seriously, that sucks - but, it is probably something else.
I only really like Corsair and Seasonic power supplies - I wouldn't touch an EVGA - regardless of what their rep for psus are - I know there are fans of them.
There's also some ppl who blame the mobo - but, I don't see that as being the culprit either. I would try another PSU to see if you still have the coil whine - if you have checked other possible noise sources - you're sure it's not other fans or parts, right?

Edit: a Seasonic GX 850 should be sufficient to power it on (and test) - I looked up what I'd need for my Corsair RM850x - and I feel like it'd be okay to use with a 4080 or 4090.

This reddit post is talking about my Corsair psu - but a Seasonic 850w should be the same idea. Maybe it might help ease any confusion (I don't know anything about the cable connection so I'd be reading this or asking questions myself):
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/y4lj45/rm_850x_and_4090/

I just got home... Thanks for that link. I think it should be fine; Seasonic designed it this way. I highly doubt they would daisy chain them if they didn't think the cable could handle it, and I will have 3 discrete cables either way, and it's running at stock anyway.

To clarify, it was 2 4090s and 1 3080 Ti (and the 3080 Ti was quieter but had the same sound signature), but I digress, same deal. I hope I can finish this quickly *knock on wood*. I'm kind of tired of spending more time building shit than I am using it at this point...

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Okay, that didn't even take long. I only had to do one test. I started Stable Diffusion on the Linux box with the 11400F and my 3080 Ti. Exact same sound signature. Completely different PSU, EVGA card, different model, and it's even in a different room. Coil whine sounded exactly the same.

So three possibilities:

1. All three GPUs have the exact same coil whine signature. Like I mean the exact same, the 3080 Ti is just quieter.
2. My home's wiring is simply suspect.
3. My hearing is just too damn sharp. To be fair I have to basically shove my ear right up against them to even hear this.

Honestly? I think it's number 2. I've seen some of the crap they've done with the wiring around this house, like where the Garage reset switch (as in, an outlet) causes my master bedroom's power to go out. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but the panel is old as hell, too.

I'm sort of done messing with this. I sincerely think it's just my home's wiring. Plus, this is literally (and I mean literally) inaudible at my normal sitting position. Especially while gaming, since the buzzing sound sort of fades into the fan noise, which means they just cancel each other out from my distance. The phone video just makes it sound much more pronounced than it actually is during real world use. Being that it's probably not the cards' fault (any of them), I don't think there's any point in trying much else, unless I feel like wasting 5 hours driving to Microcenter and back, doing 5 more exchanges, for essentially no real gains.

I think all I can try at this point is purchasing a line conditioner, but I haven't done research on good line conditioners.

 

[KickAssCop]

Good idea to leave it as is if you can't hear it anyway.

 

[DrezKill]

EVGA is gone, and thus we all suffer.

Yyyeeeaaahhh...

 

[LigTasm]

Okay, that didn't even take long. I only had to do one test. I started Stable Diffusion on the Linux box with the 11400F and my 3080 Ti. Exact same sound signature. Completely different PSU, EVGA card, different model, and it's even in a different room. Coil whine sounded exactly the same.

So three possibilities:

1. All three GPUs have the exact same coil whine signature. Like I mean the exact same, the 3080 Ti is just quieter.
2. My home's wiring is simply suspect.
3. My hearing is just too damn sharp. To be fair I have to basically shove my ear right up against them to even hear this.

Honestly? I think it's number 2. I've seen some of the crap they've done with the wiring around this house, like where the Garage reset switch (as in, an outlet) causes my master bedroom's power to go out. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but the panel is old as hell, too.

I'm sort of done messing with this. I sincerely think it's just my home's wiring. Plus, this is literally (and I mean literally) inaudible at my normal sitting position. Especially while gaming, since the buzzing sound sort of fades into the fan noise, which means they just cancel each other out from my distance. The phone video just makes it sound much more pronounced than it actually is during real world use. Being that it's probably not the cards' fault (any of them), I don't think there's any point in trying much else, unless I feel like wasting 5 hours driving to Microcenter and back, doing 5 more exchanges, for essentially no real gains.

I think all I can try at this point is purchasing a line conditioner, but I haven't done research on good line conditioners.

I had the Gaming X Trio, no whine. I now have an Asus TUF and it has mild whine. I can't really hear this one over games so its not a big deal, nothing like my Powercolor 7900XTX I sent back. That thing sounded like a bucket of cicadas.

 

[pavel]

Okay, that didn't even take long. I only had to do one test. I started Stable Diffusion on the Linux box with the 11400F and my 3080 Ti. Exact same sound signature. Completely different PSU, EVGA card, different model, and it's even in a different room. Coil whine sounded exactly the same.

So three possibilities:

1. All three GPUs have the exact same coil whine signature. Like I mean the exact same, the 3080 Ti is just quieter.
2. My home's wiring is simply suspect.
3. My hearing is just too damn sharp. To be fair I have to basically shove my ear right up against them to even hear this.

Honestly? I think it's number 2. I've seen some of the crap they've done with the wiring around this house, like where the Garage reset switch (as in, an outlet) causes my master bedroom's power to go out. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but the panel is old as hell, too.

I'm sort of done messing with this. I sincerely think it's just my home's wiring. Plus, this is literally (and I mean literally) inaudible at my normal sitting position. Especially while gaming, since the buzzing sound sort of fades into the fan noise, which means they just cancel each other out from my distance. The phone video just makes it sound much more pronounced than it actually is during real world use. Being that it's probably not the cards' fault (any of them), I don't think there's any point in trying much else, unless I feel like wasting 5 hours driving to Microcenter and back, doing 5 more exchanges, for essentially no real gains.

I think all I can try at this point is purchasing a line conditioner, but I haven't done research on good line conditioners.

Perhaps. Is there any way, you can bring the computer/PC to another place to test? That would eliminate/confirm your wiring - bring 2 of the cards and the 3rd in the PC and test? It'd be a hassle, for sure, but that should tell you something.

It's possible it's wiring - or just the power delivery in your home - since coil whine has also been said to be related to power supplies (occasionally) - not always (just) the gpu. I dunno - just a thought....

 

[pavel]

I had the Gaming X Trio, no whine. I now have an Asus TUF and it has mild whine. I can't really hear this one over games so its not a big deal, nothing like my Powercolor 7900XTX I sent back. That thing sounded like a bucket of cicadas.

I rarely read about MSI gpus having coil whine - the Gaming X Trio and Suprim X - rarely seem to have it - although, someone on here suggested it's often bad with MSI gpus - but, I haven't read that anywhere else (except that poster).

I am interested in MSI gpus - for that reason - but, also, because MSI offers transferable warranty in Canada, thus, making it easier to purchase a used gpu - whether they'd accept 'noise' aka coil whine as a RMA reason - is another matter. But, if they rarely have coil wine - for whatever reason, that's a good thing, right?
Unfortunately, their nvidia cards here are usually on the more expensive side - more expensive than Zotac and PNY cards, at least.
I'd definitely consider one - even if the Gaming X Trio has the lower power limit (I believe it does). I am specifically talking about both their 4080s and 4090s, btw.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Perhaps. Is there any way, you can bring the computer/PC to another place to test? That would eliminate/confirm your wiring - bring 2 of the cards and the 3rd in the PC and test? It'd be a hassle, for sure, but that should tell you something.

It's possible it's wiring - or just the power delivery in your home - since coil whine has also been said to be related to power supplies (occasionally) - not always (just) the gpu. I dunno - just a thought....

I do have a friend nearby, but frankly I have about as much faith in his house's power delivery as I do in mine. It's a nice home, but he definitely has wiring issues. There's another friend that I could go to, but he's like an hour away. I might see if I can drop by over the weekend or something and test. Or maybe next weekend. He might be out of town though; he has to travel a lot. The timing might be rough.

 

[LigTasm]

I rarely read about MSI gpus having coil whine - the Gaming X Trio and Suprim X - rarely seem to have it - although, someone on here suggested it's often bad with MSI gpus - but, I haven't read that anywhere else (except that poster).

I am interested in MSI gpus - for that reason - but, also, because MSI offers transferable warranty in Canada, thus, making it easier to purchase a used gpu - whether they'd accept 'noise' aka coil whine as a RMA reason - is another matter. But, if they rarely have coil wine - for whatever reason, that's a good thing, right?
Unfortunately, their nvidia cards here are usually on the more expensive side - more expensive than Zotac and PNY cards, at least.
I'd definitely consider one - even if the Gaming X Trio has the lower power limit (I believe it does). I am specifically talking about both their 4080s and 4090s, btw.

These top end cards have such huge vrm and high power draw it’s basically a given they’ll have some noise to them. Heck even my spare 6700XT I was using for the last few months has a little buzz to it. As long as I can’t hear it over the game volume setting I don’t worry about it because there isn’t really any other way. I’ll bet people that say their cards are silent just never got close enough to hear it.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I do have a friend nearby, but frankly I have about as much faith in his house's power delivery as I do in mine. It's a nice home, but he definitely has wiring issues. There's another friend that I could go to, but he's like an hour away. I might see if I can drop by over the weekend or something and test. Or maybe next weekend. He might be out of town though; he has to travel a lot. The timing might be rough.

I wouldn't even worry about it from what you've said at this point. Just my 2 cents.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I wouldn't even worry about it from what you've said at this point. Just my 2 cents.

I think the GPU testing would be about 66% pretext for just visiting him. I haven't been to his place in a while, since he usually drives to mine. It would be kind of nice to know if it is my home's wiring definitely, though, for the long term. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to do anything about it, though. As I said, it's inaudible at normal distances.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

So, I'm heavily considering returning this now. In fact, I was quite close to just getting up and going as soon as I got home. Why? My time in Hogwarts Legacy. I'm very much pissed about how badly this performs due to the game being... uh... "CPU limited" (lol). If this is a grim forecast of the times that will come, I don't know if I want any part in it. I think I'm going to grab my 3080 Ti and put it in this machine and test it out at that game to see "what I'm missing" without the 4090. If it doesn't prove to be enough, I'm just going to return it.

I didn't pay $1600 (more like $1700) for just a GPU for it to be "limited" by a 16 core CPU (5950X) that's only basically one generation old, and boosts to almost 5Ghz. If that isn't enough, then frankly gaming has gotten ridiculous, in a bad, regressive sort of way. I can accept not getting maximum performance, or maybe even getting a solid bit less performance out of the 4090 because I don't have the 7800X3D. What I can't accept is this sheer BS where games aren't even leveraging more than two threads on a CPU and then causing the GPU to run at 50%. I kind of refuse to pay $800+ more on top of a $1600 GPU just to be able to leverage it in 3440x1440. This is quite reasonably a resolution that I should be GPU bound at. This is just ridiculous; it's sheer, absolute nonsense.

 

[Epos7]

So, I'm heavily considering returning this now. In fact, I was quite close to just getting up and going as soon as I got home. Why? My time in Hogwarts Legacy. I'm very much pissed about how badly this performs due to the game being... uh... "CPU limited" (lol). If this is a grim forecast of the times that will come, I don't know if I want any part in it. I think I'm going to grab my 3080 Ti and put it in this machine and test it out at that game to see "what I'm missing" without the 4090. If it doesn't prove to be enough, I'm just going to return it.

I didn't pay $1600 (more like $1700) for just a GPU for it to be "limited" by a 16 core CPU (5950X) that's only basically one generation old, and boosts to almost 5Ghz. If that isn't enough, then frankly gaming has gotten ridiculous, in a bad, regressive sort of way. I can accept not getting maximum performance, or maybe even getting a solid bit less performance out of the 4090 because I don't have the 7800X3D. What I can't accept is this sheer BS where games aren't even leveraging more than two threads on a CPU and then causing the GPU to run at 50%. I kind of refuse to pay $800+ more on top of a $1600 GPU just to be able to leverage it in 3440x1440. This is quite reasonably a resolution that I should be GPU bound at. This is just ridiculous; it's sheer, absolute nonsense.

I have a 3080, and I'm installing my new 4090 tonight. Like you I have a previous gen CPU (5900X).

I hope poorly optimized games like Hogwarts are the minority. I ran into a similar situation trying to get my settings right for MSFS on my 3080, and it was a miserable experience.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I have a 3080, and I'm installing my new 4090 tonight. Like you I have a previous gen CPU (5900X).

I hope poorly optimized games like Hogwarts are the minority. I ran into a similar situation trying to get my settings right for MSFS on my 3080, and it was a miserable experience.

I'm going to be brutally honest with you. I feel like I would have gotten more of a general FPS and quality of life upgrade from buying a 7800X3D rather than the 4090 (and no, the 5800X3D is not sufficient; it's much, much slower... all the game cares about is clock speed, and the 5800X3D is much slower than 7800X3D in a lot of benchmarks). Even with a decent motherboard, CPU, and RAM combo, it would still come out to like half the price of a 4090.

I went and returned my 4090. I tried playing Hogwarts Legacy with my 3080 Ti, and yes it was slower... but uh... not quite as much as you would expect, even in the few areas where I knew the VRAM exceeded 12 GB (although frankly even that was only barely; like I think the highest I saw out of the game at 3440x1440 is like 12.5GB lol). Obviously I left the settings exactly as they were on the 4090, so that was with absolutely maxed settings. The lowest I saw was around 37 FPS in Hogsmead... where the 4090 was getting like 43? Mind you that's with SMT on for the 4090... and I know turning SMT off for the 5950X increases performance in this game by at least 15%. I did the same thing in the Astronomy Wing, where I took a picture earlier. 43 FPS vs like... 54 (and that 54 is with SMT off on the 4090, mind you; before that, it was also in the 47 range or lower). Now, there are definitely areas that saw a much larger performance delta (maybe 55 vs 80 FPS) but... who cares? When you tune your game, you tune for the dips, not the strong points.

Like I think this is hilarious, but the 4090 barely got higher FPS than my 3080 Ti even at absolutely cranked to the max settings. That's how broken the game is. And I feel like this is only going to keep happening. So my thoughts are, better off upgrading to a better CPU before the GPU... for gaming performance... yes, in the past I would have thought that uttering such a thing would be absolutely asinine drivel, but if this is where gaming is going, it's not asinine drivel anymore, it's just the truth.

Anyway, I also realized after using Linux, that even my 2080 can pump out considerable numbers in stable Diffusion under Linux. So I simply scooted my 2080 RTX over to the Stable Diffusion machine that's running Linux, and shoved my trusty old 1080 into my bedroom computer and I'm done. All bases accounted for. I have zero real need for that 4090, so I'm going to just let it go unless I see one pop up for like $1200 at some point. At that point I might consider it worth it. For now I'll just be turning my graphics down a notch and enjoying the extra $1700 in my pocket. I might upgrade CPU sometime, but right now I'm too jaded to GAF.

 

[pavel]

I wouldn't even worry about it from what you've said at this point. Just my 2 cents.

Maybe but I would be interested. I have read in various sites - including this one - and I haven't heard of 'wiring in my home/building' as a source or culprit for coil whine on my gpu' before.
I would offer the friend (with the best home) some $ and a case of beer and bring my PC over - if to just eliminate/confirm this as the source.
That's just what I'd do - cuz I am interested in that kind of thing - experiments.

 

[pavel]

These top end cards have such huge vrm and high power draw it’s basically a given they’ll have some noise to them. Heck even my spare 6700XT I was using for the last few months has a little buzz to it. As long as I can’t hear it over the game volume setting I don’t worry about it because there isn’t really any other way. I’ll bet people that say their cards are silent just never got close enough to hear it.

Perhaps, yes. Some ppl say it's luck of the draw - 'playing the lottery' - whether you get it or not - the coil whine.
I would hope ppl would go right up to their PC to test but it's possible they are just gaming - and say 'nope' I don't hear it while sitting wherever they sit - how many sit away from huge tvs or monitors vs a 27" or 32" or whatever size at their desk though?
I guess I try to give them the benefit of the doubt - that they put their ear up to their PC - although, we can probably safely assume they didn't use a soundvlevel meter?

P.S. I forgot to ask you if you had the reference/MBA Powercolor 7900 XTX (the card you returned, right)?

 

[LigTasm]

P.S. I forgot to ask you if you had the reference/MBA Powercolor 7900 XTX (the card you returned, right)?

No both of mine were aftermarket, I had a Sapphire Pulse and a Powercolor Hellhound.

 

[NightReaver]

I mean honestly who cares about a noise a PC makes if I don't hear it during normal use?

Oh no, better put my ear right against literally everything in the house so I can nitpick.

 

[pavel]

No both of mine were aftermarket, I had a Sapphire Pulse and a Powercolor Hellhound.

Oh, did you sell both? That really sucks that you went through that - to get 2 (different) cards with the same problem - coil whine - really sucks. Can't be your psu if your Nvidia card is the only change in hardware. There seems to be a lot of complaints with Powercolor 7900 cards, not as many with Sapphire - but, it's also possible there's bad batches - who knows, right?

I mean honestly who cares about a noise a PC makes if I don't hear it during normal use?

Oh no, better put my ear right against literally everything in the house so I can nitpick.

Well, there's 'normal' use - being doing routine things like web surfing, using software that doesn't stress the gpu or cpu - and then there's 'normal' use in which the gpu (and cpu?) is stressed - including gaming. My 'normal' use load of my EVGA 3060 XC transformed into a jet plane.

 

[LigTasm]

Oh, did you sell both? That really sucks that you went through that - to get 2 (different) cards with the same problem - coil whine - really sucks. Can't be your psu if your Nvidia card is the only change in hardware. There seems to be a lot of complaints with Powercolor 7900 cards, not as many with Sapphire - but, it's also possible there's bad batches - who knows, right?

No there was two separate problems, the Sapphire was crashing constantly so I returned it for the Powercolor. The Powercolor just had massive coil whine, I couldn't stand it. I have 3 PCs here and the cards did the same thing in all of them, so its not like its a different part causing the issue. Sapphire was as quiet as one of these 300W++ cards can be, it had a tiny coil buzz but it wasn't really audible unless you took off the panel and put your head next to it (which I think nearly all cards will have).

 

[Epos7]

I'm going to be brutally honest with you. I feel like I would have gotten more of a general FPS and quality of life upgrade from buying a 7800X3D rather than the 4090

Hogwarts sounds like a really poorly optimized game. I bet you're right and the CPU upgrade would have a bigger impact there. Hopefully it's an exception.

 

[pavel]

No there was two separate problems, the Sapphire was crashing constantly so I returned it for the Powercolor. The Powercolor just had massive coil whine, I couldn't stand it. I have 3 PCs here and the cards did the same thing in all of them, so its not like its a different part causing the issue. Sapphire was as quiet as one of these 300W++ cards can be, it had a tiny coil buzz but it wasn't really audible unless you took off the panel and put your head next to it (which I think nearly all cards will have).

Oh, I see.... I've actually read that about the Pulse cards - often quiet OR some have 'quiet' whine or buzz - I think a Pulse would be a contender for a 7900 XTX and it's one of the cheaper 7900 XTX cards here (Canada) - although, this thread is about 4090s - so, I digressed a bit.

Here, the cheaper 4090s are Zotac Trinity and sometimes the AMP - next is the PNY XLR8. On the used market - there's mostly Zotac Trinity and ASUS Tuf 4090s - I'd be a bit worried about coil whine - since, they can't say I'm selling it to 'upgrade to...' - but, they kept it past the return period - so, maybe they are not selling it due to loud noise/coil whine?

 

[LigTasm]

Oh, I see.... I've actually read that about the Pulse cards - often quiet OR some have 'quiet' whine or buzz - I think a Pulse would be a contender for a 7900 XTX and it's one of the cheaper 7900 XTX cards here (Canada) - although, this thread is about 4090s - so, I digressed a bit.

Here, the cheaper 4090s are Zotac Trinity and sometimes the AMP - next is the PNY XLR8. On the used market - there's mostly Zotac Trinity and ASUS Tuf 4090s - I'd be a bit worried about coil whine - since, they can't say I'm selling it to 'upgrade to...' - but, they kept it past the return period - so, maybe they are not selling it due to loud noise/coil whine?

I have the TUF now, and it has mild whine. I can't hear it over the game so its not a big problem to me, and it only happens at very high frame rates and I play at 4K so it never gets there. The MSI Gaming X Trio was very near silent. I ended up with this card as it was damaged, my friend bought it for his video editing machine and dropped it and bent the slot bracket badly and it damaged the edge of the PCB. I ended up getting it for cheap so he could get another since it won't be warrantied. Turns out it worked perfectly after I fixed the bent bracket.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I mean honestly who cares about a noise a PC makes if I don't hear it during normal use?

Oh no, better put my ear right against literally everything in the house so I can nitpick.

I would have been more likely to hear either 4090 I tried during Stable Diffusion, as far as coil whine, due to the high pitched sound signature and the computer and GPU being stressed a bit less, leading to a much lower noise floor. But I still didn't hear it at my normal sitting position. During gaming, the machine tended to spin up to the point where I didn't hear it, and it wasn't really that loud anyway. So I agree, it's wasn't really much of a concern. But it would be more of a concern if I planned to move my aquarium or something so that the noise floor in the room was much quieter. Things that you might plan for if you invest in a $1700 GPU. That's about the only reason I at least opted for one replacement. My coil whine wasn't bad at all, though, so even in a quiet room it would have likely been fine.

Hogwarts sounds like a really poorly optimized game. I bet you're right and the CPU upgrade would have a bigger impact there. Hopefully it's an exception.

I don't think it is. The game looks really good, and just turning down the settings (I left everything on ultra and turned on only Ray Tracing Shadows, and put it on Medium iirc) a notch on my 3080 Ti basically got it playable at ~70FPS even with a ray tracing option or two on. I don't think this will be the last time we see a AAA game made in this manner, and we may see this exact same engine and approach being used again. So much time was spent on the atmosphere and graphics that the performance optimization of said graphics took a backseat. The reason why I so promptly decided to return my 4090 immediately after experiencing the game is that I believe this will keep happening, and I just wasn't ready to completely upgrade CPU, motherboard, etc, just to get the performance that I already paid a lot for in a GPU. The 3080 Ti with my system basically attained a large majority of the performance and graphics that I cared about, and the 4090 simply wasn't worth it. If you're on any older platform, the 4090 essentially costs an upwards of $2400-3000+ just to properly use, because you need to build the entire system around using it. Someone said that it's related to Nvidia's approach to its drivers.

Well, if I had an 8 GB card, my story might be different. Harry Potter does on average use around 10+ GB VRAM. The 3080 Ti is pretty much perfectly rightsized for the amount of VRAM it can actually use vs its performance level in that game. A 3080 might hit the limit even at the settings it can push.

 

[NightReaver]

Someone said that it's related to Nvidia's approach to its drivers.

Honestly people have tossed around a huge variety of reasoning for the reason why games are behaving like Hogwarts. All the way to AMD must be paying the devs to do this (and have sloppy FSR/ console performance, which are AMD platforms)

Starfield is going to be an absolute riot lol.

 

[Epos7]

I don't think it is. The game looks really good, and just turning down the settings (I left everything on ultra and turned on only Ray Tracing Shadows, and put it on Medium iirc) a notch on my 3080 Ti basically got it playable at ~70FPS even with a ray tracing option or two on. I don't think this will be the last time we see a AAA game made in this manner, and we may see this exact same engine and approach being used again.

Different engine, but MSFS is a similar game that really taxes the CPU. The trick to optimizing that one is to turn up all the settings that would stress your GPU and turn down ones that would stress the CPU. Being GPU limited makes for a much more pleasant experience in general. It's almost as if these games need to offer unnecessarily taxing graphical settings for people with high-end GPUs so the GPU becomes the bottleneck.

One nice feature of the 4XXX series is that frame generation seems to work quite well for games such as Hogwarts to smooth out the experience.