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Anyone have a recommendation for a good power supply that will power 12+ drives (3.5 and 2.5)?
Ok.
I guess the part I don't understand is, of what possible value could it be to have a hard drive not spin up if a system has 3.3v power?
Why is this a part of the spec?
Correct, at the time I didn't have any kapton tape, and I didn't want to go the destructive method snipping the pins on the drive or the cables themselves.Western Digital "shucked drives" are very modern spec, which means they use 3.3v disable pin from enterprise which causes the drive to not spin up when power is active on that pin.To get around this, you either tape the pin off so it doesnt get power (thats what I do), cut the sata power wire for 3.3v, or use a molex adapter with no 3.3v at all (what Spartacus09 is doing).
You hit the nail on the head, most backplanes don't have the 3.3v, hence why most consumer QNAP and Synology enclosures can take the shucked drives with no issue.Hmm.
I foresee this causing real problems with older backplanes. Much more difficult to disable one 3.3v connector in those. Unless - of course - the backplane didn't wire 3.3v to begin with since hard drives don't use the 3.3v rail for anything.
Actually, since my backplanes are all powered by 4-pin molex connectors, (12v, 5v and two grounds) they probably don't.
I can remove the 10gb nic in my PCI Express slot (not gonna do that) and pop in my dell HBA for 8i... but even that wont be enough as I have more drives to put in like another 6x 2.5" icy dock (after I buy it)...
and 3 more 3x bays... so 3x3+6 = 15 more sata needed....
now I know there are hba add on cards but they use ports of other cards to activate right? so a 16i add on will give 16 ports but uses off of other? haven't played with that yet...
so what is a cheap alternative HBAs to get 32 internal hba ports?
The "add on cards" would be considered expanders or multipliers (or backplanes for when you attach drives directly to the PCB they are on). SAS calls them SAS Expanders, sometimes I see ones for SATA just called multipliers. I believe you must match the chipset on the expander to the chipset used by the HBA. For instance there is a Marvel 88SM9715 multiplier that turns 1 port into 5 that matches with the Marvell 88SE9485 and supposedly 88SE9215 sata card chips. These are what BackBlaze used for sata cards and backplanes. LSI has the 9305 series chip (what I have) and it matches to their SAS3x40 expander. Intel also sells expanders that match to their raid cards.
So you either need to use some expanders that match the cards you already have, or buy something like the LSI 9305-24i HBA to get 24 ports in a single slot.
Keep in mind though the multipliers aren't intended for SSD use case, don't go thinking you can get away with SAS2008 controller, you need a 2308 or better.my case came in and WOW.. so easy to work with and so clean... well made and I love it.
I did not calculate something into the mix...
I have 2x 8i HP HBA and using 6 onboard sata 3gb connectors....for 23 drives.
I need to get more SATA power adapters.... so that is easy...
the concern...
I can remove the 10gb nic in my PCI Express slot (not gonna do that) and pop in my dell HBA for 8i... but even that wont be enough as I have more drives to put in like another 6x 2.5" icy dock (after I buy it)...
and 3 more 3x bays... so 3x3+6 = 15 more sata needed....
now I know there are hba add on cards but they use ports of other cards to activate right? so a 16i add on will give 16 ports but uses off of other? haven't played with that yet...
so what is a cheap alternative HBAs to get 32 internal hba ports?
im using the onboard 6 sata for regular drives but the hbas are for ssd so want 6gb...
ive been out of the hardware market for so long and all of this is new to me..
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runnin hp h220... lsi 9205-8i x 2 now...another system has a dell h310 in my freenas... both do ssd just fineKeep in mind though the multipliers aren't intended for SSD use case, don't go thinking you can get away with SAS2008 controller, you need a 2308 or better.
runnin hp h220... lsi 9205-8i x 2 now...another system has a dell h310 in my freenas... both do ssd just fine
Aren't those SAS 2308 products though?
He was talking about SAS2008 products, like the oft recommended IBM M1015.
Those are great for large arrays of hard drives, but do fall short on SSD's, in large part because they are PCIe 8x gen2 and thus don't have enough PCIe bandwidth to saturate all the SAS2 connections.
But the "add-on cards" you are talking about are "SAS Expanders". These are great if you want to attach a large number of drives, but those drives will still be sharing the total bandwidth available on the HBA.
For instance, that H220 has 8x 6gbit, for a total of 48gbit. Add a SAS expander and you are simply splitting that bandwidth over more drives. For hard drives this likely won't matter, as they tend to max out at 250MB/s, but for modern SATA SSD's, they are already pretty much maxing out the 6gbit bandwidth as it is, so if you use an expander you will definitely become controller limited in that scenario.
So, SAS Expanders, great for adding large quantities of (comparatively) slow drives, not great for setups where you care about drive performance, which I am guessing you do, or you wouldn't be using SSD's
for now I said screw it... I removed my 10gb nic and put the dell perc 310 in... got 4x 2tb in.. need power adapters then will get 4x 2tb more added...
I gotta ebay some stuff to get $ to then get 2x 16i cards... I figure 32 on hba plus 6 onboard is more than enough....for now... lol
so I ran out of drive letters in windows.. seems stablebit drive pool doesn't require letters.. so guess ill remove them all later.. going to bed now hah...
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Yikes, you are using Windows for this?
everyone's personal use case is their own use case... mine... it just works...
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Well, these things tend to work... until they don't.
Makes me nervous over using something more tried and true, but to each their own.
There are definitely better solutions out there, but also tough to move over to another when what you have works, I know how you feel.gotcha. been using this for years and sofar all good... i know not as fast as raid levels...
There are definitely better solutions out there, but also tough to move over to another when what you have works, I know how you feel.
However its good to get out of your comfort zone sometimes, there are alot of options for you use case even with how daunting it may be.
Frankly though for how you have it setup the SAS2008 controllers might be sufficient as you wouldn't hit more than a couple of SSD at a time likely.
To expand on SAS2008 vs SAS2308 thats just the underlying chipset that the raid card uses as Zarathustra[H] already explained you can only do about 6x SSD of simultaneous usage on the SAS2008 controllers which include the H310s, H200s, and M1015 (there a list of them here)
The 2308 are the 9207-8i, H220, etc that can handle 16 simultaneous SSD, the key with the multipliers/expanders is they act as a switch so make sure your controller can handle all the connected drives to the expander.
For the cost your best bang for buck while still maxing out for the SSD would be to pickup a HP H220 (9207-8i equivalent) for about $75 and a IBM SAS expander for about $40 (I recommend Art he's on the forums here and tests the stuff he sells thoroughly).
Yikes, you are using Windows for this?
hah 2 of us using it.. its just simple and I like it.. !!! LOL
dayum sir!!! 372TB!!!!
Correct, think of it as a splitter shares the controller bandwidth so you can connect more drives, it doesn't actually use any bandwidth on the pcie though, it just uses that for power.i have 2 - hp 220s as noted few posts up.. so guess im good there. you mention ibm sas expander.. is that pci-e? googled for a minute and havent found that answer...
so to confirm... id buy the expander... plug both ports of my h220 into the expander and I would gain 16 ports... but id loose 8?
over 400 when i have added rest of the hdds i can add at this point..
The 2308 are the 9207-8i, H220, etc that can handle 16 simultaneous SSD, the key with the multipliers/expanders is they act as a switch so make sure your controller can handle all the connected drives to the expander.
i have 2 - hp 220s as noted few posts up.. so guess im good there. you mention ibm sas expander.. is that pci-e? googled for a minute and havent found that answer...
so to confirm... id buy the expander... plug both ports of my h220 into the expander and I would gain 16 ports... but id loose 8?
doin ssd cache? I just saw an nvme slot on my mobo (friend gave me mobo recently and cpu/memory..) I hit him up and he didn't know it was there..
so now I have stablebit use the ssd cache plugin on the nvme... so cache before sata...
Where are you getting 66 Sata ports?
my case came in and WOW.. so easy to work with and so clean... well made and I love it. ...
Hey TeleFragger, how are the HDD/CPU temps like in this box?
I assume you have 2 140mm fans intake and the CPU fan attempting to pull air up and out of the case. Good to see the adapter has a dedicated fan.
Spartacus09 - THX DUDE!!!! 4 cages ordered....
I was going to follow this DIY but hell DIY $3 or Corsair $54...
so I will have to check. haven't checked that.... I believe the mobo software will tell me.. but do you have a good utility to check with?
and yes.. standard 3 fans only that came with it....
Damn that is a sexy power spacing and connectors on that stack of 2.5" I need to look at doing a custom cable like that, all my stuff is just shoved in there currently.
I did actually end up scrapping the enterprise SSD for generic 860 evos so I could use the internal ssd backside trays on the 750D.
They may have insane endurance, but the heat and thickness was too much, they can go in my backup unraid box.
I'm doing all of the above, but doing the thinner normal SSD allows me to fit more disks in before I have to add my DAS, I should be able to get at least 17 of my data disks (possibly all 20) instead of only 12-15.I was looking to use that for SSD's, thus not worried about heat... still wonder if I should of gone that route.. but for $10 each... for OEM cages for future.. if I ever need to sell it.. doubt it...
so to do the power like that, I found the connectors for like $1-$2 each... so more expensive doing diy vs buying the 1 male to 5 female...
Hey TeleFragger, how are the HDD/CPU temps like in this box?
I assume you have 2 140mm fans intake and the CPU fan attempting to pull air up and out of the case. Good to see the adapter has a dedicated fan.
Spartacus09 - THX DUDE!!!! 4 cages ordered....
I was going to follow this DIY but hell DIY $3 or Corsair $54...
so I will have to check. haven't checked that.... I believe the mobo software will tell me.. but do you have a good utility to check with?
and yes.. standard 3 fans only that came with it....
140F~60cusing hw monitor...
System 93F
CPU 119F
Hard drives - from 87F to 140F
fans running at 700rpm..
Side note if you keep the 2.5" caddys on the back side I recommend right angle SLIM sata connectors and power connectors, makes the fitting alot easier on the back side.
140F~60c
All my drives so far sit in the 35-45c range (45c is only during the parity check and the highest I've seen on the drive that has the least airflow, most are 39-42c), tbf they sit idle most of the time and are the 5400rpm drives except the parity.
My front fractal design fans are 1000rpm though the noctua on the cpu and in the enclosure are 1200.
My System and CPU temps are about the same though (slightly lower generally depending on load).
well its my fault. i got those drives stacked in case. i put another fan blowing on them and its lowering the temp
when my bays come in.. i hope the correct spacing helps with temps.
I've only use two types of drives in recent years. 4TB WD Red's and 10TB Seagate Enteprise drives.
Both of these drives have a specified max operating temperature of 60C.