Finding the best high-static fans for Radiators.

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RogueTadhg

[H]ard|Gawd
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Dec 14, 2011
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I have a question about the Noctura fans: Are they really 2x measured higher than the Corsair's fan. That's comma is really throwing me for a loop and I'm not sure if it's measured the same as Corsair's fans.

Noctura industrial fans that have a "7,63" mmH20 measurement. Corsair's High Static fans have a "3.1" mmH20. I'm assuming mmH20 is the metric that fans's staticy-pressure is measured. Am I correct in thinking that it's 2x rated better for a radiator use?
 
There's VERY little standardized testing for any PC fans. The only things you can really count on being accurate are RPM, voltage and current ratings.

Everything else related to air flow, noise, and static pressure have no industry-standard testing method that all the manufacturers follow.

Even if you had a number, it'd be hard to compare, because performance would be different depending on your specific radiator (fin density, thickness, etc), your filters, your mounting, etc.
 
depends on the RPM among other things. Sure the Noctua A14 3000 PWM is showing a staggering 10.52 mmh20 static pressure, at 3000 RPM. They are so loud at 3000RPM, no one is going to do that for long
 
Headsets don't make this a problem, that I stuff my case in the corner of a long desk so I'm not really worried about the RPMs.

Come to think of it, I take pride in knowing that my computer sounds like a Jet Engine when gaming.
 
RogueTadhg said:
Headsets don't make this a problem, that I stuff my case in the corner of a long desk so I'm not really worried about the RPMs.

Come to think of it, I take pride in knowing that my computer sounds like a Jet Engine when gaming.
Click to expand...
remember the delta 60mm screamer CPU fans back in the day? like a tornado lol

In case you're curious.


I am still debating between the 2000RPM and 3000RPM versions; the min RPM is 500 on the first and 800 on the second. I'm just not sure that I'd ever want to run at less than 800RPM...and I like the idea of ludicrous speed!
 
RogueTadhg said:
I have a question about the Noctura fans: Are they really 2x measured higher than the Corsair's fan. That's comma is really throwing me for a loop and I'm not sure if it's measured the same as Corsair's fans.

Noctura industrial fans that have a "7,63" mmH20 measurement. Corsair's High Static fans have a "3.1" mmH20. I'm assuming mmH20 is the metric that fans's staticy-pressure is measured. Am I correct in thinking that it's 2x rated better for a radiator use?
Click to expand...

The comma vs. full-stop/period is simply due to differences in notation. North Americans use a "." Where as the remainder of the world use a "," (comma) to separate the whole from the fractional. 7.55 = 7,55.

Since Noctua is an Austrian company, they use 7,63 in your example.
 
NeedleArtist said:
The comma vs. full-stop/period is simply due to differences in notation. North Americans use a "." Where as the remainder of the world use a "," (comma) to separate the whole from the fractional. 7.55 = 7,55.

Since Noctua is an Austrian company, they use 7,63 in your example.
Click to expand...

I figured this was the situation. I wanted to make sure that it was and not a thousandths, or some different meaning to inflate the number.
 
RogueTadhg said:
Headsets don't make this a problem, that I stuff my case in the corner of a long desk so I'm not really worried about the RPMs.

Come to think of it, I take pride in knowing that my computer sounds like a Jet Engine when gaming.
Click to expand...

If thats the case you want some Delta's

Gotta put your own 3 pin connector on, but I'd recomend using Molex on them anyhow.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/PFR1212DHE-F00/603-1701-ND/3078055

Or if you need PWM.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/PFC1212DE-F00/603-1164-ND/1850533

Note, DO NOT try to power that off your motherboard header.
 
I used some Noctua iPPC 3000 fans in my last build running at 40-50% duty cycle and they did a great job without a ton of noise.
 
Emission said:
I used some Noctua iPPC 3000 fans in my last build running at 40-50% duty cycle and they did a great job without a ton of noise.
Click to expand...
Would you recommend over the iPPC 2000's? I'm still torn as I'm not sure i'd use 500 rpm vs 800 rpm. Although it may be more likely I would use 500RPM than over 2000RPM...
 
Napoleon said:
Would you recommend over the iPPC 2000's? I'm still torn as I'm not sure i'd use 500 rpm vs 800 rpm. Although it may be more likely I would use 500RPM than over 2000RPM...
Click to expand...

If you're looking to cut down on noise, I'd recommend the iPPC 2000. It will let you have finer-grained adjustments, and I honestly can't say I ever ran these iPPC 3000 fans past 1700 RPM anyway.

The 3000's would be more appropriate in a server room or a high-noise environment.
 
Emission said:
If you're looking to cut down on noise, I'd recommend the iPPC 2000. It will let you have finer-grained adjustments, and I honestly can't say I ever ran these iPPC 3000 fans past 1700 RPM anyway.

The 3000's would be more appropriate in a server room or a high-noise environment.
Click to expand...
What do you use for PWM control? my mobo is old and doesn't have 4pin PWM output so I'm looking into potentially building my own, although I wouldn't ever know what RPM I was running at: http://www.overclockers.com/pwm-fan-controller/

I wish there was a PWM version of the NZXT Grid+ https://www.amazon.com/Nzxt-Digital...TF8&coliid=I2HH94C3ZBUYAX&colid=3RATSOLWOA06I
 
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Napoleon said:
What do you use for PWM control? my mobo is old and doesn't have 4pin PWM output so I'm looking into potentially building my own, although I wouldn't ever know what RPM I was running at: http://www.overclockers.com/pwm-fan-controller/

I wish there was a PWM version of the NZXT Grid+ https://www.amazon.com/Nzxt-Digital...TF8&coliid=I2HH94C3ZBUYAX&colid=3RATSOLWOA06I
Click to expand...

I just used my motherboard, which was an Intel DX79Si at the time that had 4 PWM headers. Good stand-alone PWM fan controllers are hard to find for cheap, even the crappy ones cost around $40-50 USD. YMMV with DIY circuits, PMW circuits in particular can be finicky.

If you absolutely can't upgrade your motherboard, this is the next best option: https://shop.aquacomputer.de/produc...=3481&XTCsid=md1dljcsfhsuqhg7209hqui8j1t1usde
 
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+1 for the Aquaero. Coupled with the Aquasuite software, it's a great fan controller, even if you don't use most of the bells & whistles they threw in with it.

Running the Noctua iPPC 3000s here as well. 40-50% is definitely the sweet spot for these, from a noise/performance perspective.
 
Emission said:
I just used my motherboard, which was an Intel DX79Si at the time that had 4 PWM headers. Good stand-alone PWM fan controllers are hard to find for cheap, even the crappy ones cost around $40-50 USD. YMMV with DIY circuits, PMW circuits in particular can be finicky.

If you absolutely can't upgrade your motherboard, this is the next best option: https://shop.aquacomputer.de/produc...=3481&XTCsid=md1dljcsfhsuqhg7209hqui8j1t1usde
Click to expand...
my dad is an electrical engineer and was going to help me make a PWM controller based on the overclockers.com design; however, that aquaero looks cool. I'll have to read more into it after work, thanks for the info!
 
Krenum said:
You want to do this :D

Click to expand...


That actually is entirely useless. Without anything to straighten out the airflow between fans, adjacent fans just cause the air to spin and become more turbulent instead of adding to airflow and static pressure.
 
Tsumi said:
That actually is entirely useless. Without anything to straighten out the airflow between fans, adjacent fans just cause the air to spin and become more turbulent instead of adding to airflow and static pressure.
Click to expand...


....Alright.
 
Tsumi said:
That actually is entirely useless. Without anything to straighten out the airflow between fans, adjacent fans just cause the air to spin and become more turbulent instead of adding to airflow and static pressure.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the guy that made the video did it as an April Fool's prank a couple years back.
 
Bandalo said:
I'm pretty sure the guy that made the video did it as an April Fool's prank a couple years back.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it was. But some people will think stacking even two fans would provide benefits when it doesn't for the reasons above. You would need counter-rotating fans.
 
Tsumi said:
I'm sure it was. But some people will think stacking even two fans would provide benefits when it doesn't for the reasons above. You would need counter-rotating fans.
Click to expand...

You could just remove the actual hub and fan, and use the frames instead as spacers...Like in the old days!
 
Bandalo said:
You could just remove the actual hub and fan, and use the frames instead as spacers...Like in the old days!
Click to expand...

A spacer still wouldn't give the effect you need unless it was thick enough (probably 3-4 fans thick minimum).
 
Tsumi said:
A spacer still wouldn't give the effect you need unless it was thick enough (probably 3-4 fans thick minimum).
Click to expand...

Someone did a test on that a few years back..Or might have been longer. Just putting in ONE fan-depth of spacing (25-ish mm) helped smooth out the airflow considerably, especially around the edges and the dead spot around the hub. I think the test showed the best effects around around the 3-fan depth mark. This was all for 120mm fans of course.
 
Did anyone make a youtube video of that test, Bandalo? I'm interested in seeing this.
 
Napoleon said:
remember the delta 60mm screamer CPU fans back in the day? like a tornado lol

In case you're curious.


I am still debating between the 2000RPM and 3000RPM versions; the min RPM is 500 on the first and 800 on the second. I'm just not sure that I'd ever want to run at less than 800RPM...and I like the idea of ludicrous speed!
Click to expand...

You need to understand that static pressure goes up exponentially with RPM. It is not a linear curve So different designs can have different pressures at different RPMs!

Also what cooler is this? If this is an AIO the fans are pretty much pointless. I showed this with the H100i GTX and the EK Predator 360.

https://hardforum.com/threads/revie...-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/

These have great static pressure and very fast but i have a bad failure rate with them but one of the best 120mm fans in performance when i was shopping but someone says noctuna has 3K RPMs now? Those are probably better.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4RE5063227
http://www.enermax.co.uk/fans/twisterstorm/
11.125 static pressure lol

The delta has 27.483 mm H2O but....its loud as fuck lol.
(BTW i stated it in my review but IIRC I think i subjectively felt the Deltas were better)

If you read my review you will see that AIOs the fan doesn't matter even at 220 watts because 240mm rad fully cools the water. The issue is flow and inability to remove heat off die. (AKA Phase/TEC is required)

Even on my EK Predator 360....basically like a decent custom loop. It can't pull the heat off and the water is 100% cooled at 220w TDP in the 360 rad. If you look at anandtech reviews with 300 or 400w plate the 240 rad vs 360 rad show almost no difference because the rad is able to dump that heat easily.

As long as you have 1500 RPM fans even at 220w you are maxing out the performance. Just read my review/experiment.

If you get an IR gun you can look at the temps on the rad as the water passes and see if there is any left over heat like it did.

Krenum said:
You want to do this :D

Click to expand...

clickbait :D

Tsumi said:
I'm sure it was. But some people will think stacking even two fans would provide benefits when it doesn't for the reasons above. You would need counter-rotating fans.
Click to expand...

didn't know that thanks! I assumed it wouldnt work as one would hope lol. Nothing is that simple :D
 
Last edited:
SomeGuy133 said:
You need to understand that static pressure goes up exponentially with RPM. It is not a linear curve So different designs can have different pressures at different RPMs!

Also what cooler is this? If this is an AIO the fans are pretty much pointless. I showed this with the H100i GTX and the EK Predator 360.

https://hardforum.com/threads/revie...-using-various-high-performance-fans.1879864/

These have great static pressure and very fast but i have a bad failure rate with them but one of the best 120mm fans in performance when i was shopping but someone says noctuna has 3K RPMs now? Those are probably better.
11.125 static pressure lol

The delta has 27.483 mm H2O but....its loud as fuck lol.
(BTW i stated it in my review but IIRC I think i subjectively felt the Deltas were better)

If you read my review you will see that AIOs the fan doesn't matter even at 220 watts because 240mm rad fully cools the water. The issue is flow and inability to remove heat off die. (AKA Phase/TEC is required)

Even on my EK Predator 360....basically like a decent custom loop. It can't pull the heat off and the water is 100% cooled at 220w TDP in the 360 rad. If you look at anandtech reviews with 300 or 400w plate the 240 rad vs 360 rad show almost no difference because the rad is able to dump that heat easily.

As long as you have 1500 RPM fans even at 220w you are maxing out the performance. Just read my review/experiment.

If you get an IR gun you can look at the temps on the rad as the water passes and see if there is any left over heat like it did.
Click to expand...

Nice review, all of those fans are pretty dang loud!

It's a custom loop with 2x HWlabs GTS X-Flow single pass radiators optimized for both water and air flow. I'm building/modding a PWM fan controller/hub with my dad for Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000RPM PWM fans (I've already bought 1 fan, going to buy the other 3 after we get it working).

I am putting 2x LCD in line sensors,on on input of rad 1 (HOT) and second on output of rad 2 (COLD) to be able to measure the temp delta. They have an operating range of 500-2000 RPM, I imagine I will run at whatever sound level and cooling level I find works, probably more on the quiet side since I have a lot of cooling surface area. I will be cooling my X58-based X5670 @4.2+GHZ and a yet to be purchased GTX1080ti (custom GPU block in progress). I estimate it at 550ish watts to cool full load, I think I should be fine. I only game and don't fold or leave the comp on so it won't be heating up my house day and night
 
Napoleon said:
Nice review, all of those fans are pretty dang loud!

It's a custom loop with 2x HWlabs GTS X-Flow single pass radiators optimized for both water and air flow. I'm building/modding a PWM fan controller/hub with my dad for Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000RPM PWM fans (I've already bought 1 fan, going to buy the other 3 after we get it working).

I am putting 2x LCD in line sensors,on on input of rad 1 (HOT) and second on output of rad 2 (COLD) to be able to measure the temp delta. They have an operating range of 500-2000 RPM, I imagine I will run at whatever sound level and cooling level I find works, probably more on the quiet side since I have a lot of cooling surface area. I will be cooling my X58-based X5670 @4.2+GHZ and a yet to be purchased GTX1080ti (custom GPU block in progress). I estimate it at 550ish watts to cool full load, I think I should be fine. I only game and don't fold or leave the comp on so it won't be heating up my house day and night
Click to expand...
just remember that static pressure is not linear....err not proportional increase. So you might be better off finding a fan with good static pressure at lower RPMs.

What i mean is it is possible (you have to look at specs, that a fan built for 2K RPMs is actually better than that noctuna at 2K RPMs

So if you never run at 3K RPMs that fan maybe worse. Just see if they have specs at different RPMs for static pressure and compare them. It is also worth simply testing and putting a paper or tassel to measure airflow. I found the deltas worked better than the ADDA and IIRC the ADDA had a better static pressure rating. I could be mistaken but thats what i recall off my head. It is in the refer somewhere.

Looks like a nice build.
 
enermax twister storm "claims"

Static Pressure (mm-H2O)
1500 rpm 2.512
2500 rpm 6.698
3500 rpm 11.125

supposedly there is a fan on their model specs that is better at 1200 rpm vs another model...not a big different but just find something that meets your exact need.
http://noctua.at/en/products/fan

also look at reviews to see about noise. Maybe one might have better noise profile for the performance
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4635/noctua_nf_f12_pwm_focused_flow_cooling_fan_review/index7.html

Personally noctuna has good fans and you can't go wrong but don't get focused on only one aspect that might not be relevant in the overall picture.

Hell adding a third rad could allow you to go almost silent. 240mm rads can dump 200 watts easy with mediocure fans with near ambient temps as i showed in my review. So if they get 500 watts of heat they can probably dumb 60-80% which means second or third rad is just removing the last little bit.

The first rad will remove most of the heat so putting a decent fan(1500 RPM) on the first rad to dump "75%" of the heat and putting near silent fans on the rest might result in a good noise balance. You just got to experiment to see how it works. I don't have much experience with water cooling or multi rads but i am sure you can tweak a nice setting that results in near silence with no performance hit.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
enermax twister storm "claims"

Static Pressure (mm-H2O)
1500 rpm 2.512
2500 rpm 6.698
3500 rpm 11.125

supposedly there is a fan on their model specs that is better at 1200 rpm vs another model...not a big different but just find something that meets your exact need.
http://noctua.at/en/products/fan

also look at reviews to see about noise. Maybe one might have better noise profile for the performance
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4635/noctua_nf_f12_pwm_focused_flow_cooling_fan_review/index7.html

Personally noctuna has good fans and you can't go wrong but don't get focused on only one aspect that might not be relevant in the overall picture.

Hell adding a third rad could allow you to go almost silent. 240mm rads can dump 200 watts easy with mediocure fans with near ambient temps as i showed in my review. So if they get 500 watts of heat they can probably dumb 60-80% which means second or third rad is just removing the last little bit.

The first rad will remove most of the heat so putting a decent fan(1500 RPM) on the first rad to dump "75%" of the heat and putting near silent fans on the rest might result in a good noise balance. You just got to experiment to see how it works. I don't have much experience with water cooling or multi rads but i am sure you can tweak a nice setting that results in near silence with no performance hit.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm not too focused on any one fan metric. Based on the below, since the fans are based on the same blades/housings, I assume the max RPM is what it takes to get the listed static pressure.
  • NF-AF14 PWM - Min RPM: 300, Max RPM:1500, Static Pressure:2.08
  • NF-AF14 PWM iPC-2000 - Min RPM: 500, Max RPM: 2000, Static Pressure: 4.18
  • NF-AF14 PWM iPC-3000 - Min RPM: 800, Max RPM: 3000, Static Pressure: 10.52

This review of the radiator shows it in 'push only' or 'push-pull' at different RPMs, 750, 1300, and 1850 RPM, all of which my fans will run. I'll do some experiements once I get it up and running. I agree, I'm betting I can run at 1000RPM with pretty dang good performance, although I won't have a tachometer so I'll never know :)
 
Napoleon said:
Yea, I'm not too focused on any one fan metric. Based on the below, since the fans are based on the same blades/housings, I assume the max RPM is what it takes to get the listed static pressure.
Click to expand...
correct.
Napoleon said:
This review of the radiator shows it in 'push only' or 'push-pull' at different RPMs, 750, 1300, and 1850 RPM, all of which my fans will run. I'll do some experiements once I get it up and running. I agree, I'm betting I can run at 1000RPM with pretty dang good performance, although I won't have a tachometer so I'll never know :)
Click to expand...

You can buy tachs for like 40-80 bucks. I bought one and a DB and laser meter...gotta have good tools. None of them are fancy high end stuff but they do the job good enough.

BTW do you know how to get PWM fans to go off HDD temps? I would love to get a PWM fan set up in my Norco server so it only spins fast when SnapRAID does a sync or HDDs start to work hard

When all 20 drives spin at once they melt unless i have super high end 120mm fans in it but it doesn't get thrashed 24/7 :/

PWM based off HDD temps would be golden but i dont know how lol. Maybe you know. I'll eventually make a thread but thought i would ask you.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
correct.


You can buy tachs for like 40-80 bucks. I bought one and a DB and laser meter...gotta have good tools. None of them are fancy high end stuff but they do the job good enough.

BTW do you know how to get PWM fans to go off HDD temps? I would love to get a PWM fan set up in my Norco server so it only spins fast when SnapRAID does a sync or HDDs start to work hard

When all 20 drives spin at once they melt unless i have super high end 120mm fans in it but it doesn't get thrashed 24/7 :/

PWM based off HDD temps would be golden but i dont know how lol. Maybe you know. I'll eventually make a thread but thought i would ask you.
Click to expand...
PM me and we can brainstorm about PWM stuff, short answer, maybe if we could repurpose a thermistor temp controlled PWM signal or just use an on/off relay based on temp

I'm gonna try to get one of my PWM fan signals and put on the system or CPU 3 pin header with only the tach pin.

If I wanted to spend 40-80 bucks I'd just get another 140 GTS XFLOW radiator and PWM fan to put between CPU out and GPU in. Hmm, that's a tempting thought lol. Crazy overkill but that's what this is all about. I'm not sure my MCP655 could handle that though, 140 and 2x 280
XFLOW rads..
 
Napoleon said:
PM me and we can brainstorm about PWM stuff, short answer, maybe if we could repurpose a thermistor temp controlled PWM signal or just use an on/off relay based on temp

I'm gonna try to get one of my PWM fan signals and put on the system or CPU 3 pin header with only the tach pin.

If I wanted to spend 40-80 bucks I'd just get another 140 GTS XFLOW radiator and PWM fan to put between CPU out and GPU in. Hmm, that's a tempting thought lol. Crazy overkill but that's what this is all about. I'm not sure my MCP655 could handle that though, 140 and 2x 280
XFLOW rads..
Click to expand...
oh you got 2x 280mm? Ah you probably dont even need a third but a small 140 after GPU to dump most heat before 2 big rads would help lol.
 
check the Scythe DFS123812H-3000 Ultra Kaze , u need a controller for them.

they can run at low voltage and they push alot of air.

when u want to go crazy and crack them all the way up, they will move ur case around.
 
I can tell you that the 3000's on my H115i on Quiet mode perform better and quieter than the stock fans did.
 
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