Finally looking to go liquid...

T

That Linux Guy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
306
I've always had a fascination with PC cooling, and water cooling in particular, but have always said I'd wait until I had the money to throw together a real nice setup. Well, that day is coming sooner than I thought.

I'm not endless on cash, so I'm keeping money in priority, but it's not THE most important factor. I'd rather wait and get decent parts than buy cheap crap now. And I'm not looking to buy everything right now. I'm buying most everything over the course of the next 6 months, as I'm also saving for a cross-country move from Michigan to Florida.

I know water cooling can give some awesome temps, but my aim isn't temps so much as it is being quiet. My rig is very quiet now, but my video card in particular is hitting some amazingly high temps. If it weren't for that, I'd stay with air cooling. Here's what I'm running so far.

-Antec Sonata 550 Plus (basically a SOLO w/ an Antec NeoHE 550w PSU)

-Snipped grills and Nexus fans. I had a single 12cm exhaust and 2x 92mm intakes, but the intakes weren't exactly necessary and didn't get really quiet until I undervolted them a bit. I've taken them out and everything's fine. Just running the single 12cm exhaust @ 12v.

-DFI LanParty DK-P35-T2RS mainboard with a Xigmatek Porter N881 passive chipset cooler

-Intel Core2 Duo E8400 with a Xigmatek HDT-S1283. The S1283 works awesome either running passively at stock settings, or full-tilt with the E8400 at 1.4v and 4.1GHz. It's running passive @ stock settings right now.

-HIS Radeon HD4870 1Gb with a Scythe Musashi GPU cooler. The GPU cooler keeps the core cool enough with the fans on low, but no cooler can really handle the super hot RAM and VRMs. I've heard mixed results about the included aluminum heatsinks that come with most aftermarket GPU coolers, so I hacked apart the OEM cooler and used the large steel plate with cooling pads for the RAM and VRMs. At idle, they're sitting at 60C, but after a bit of gaming, they're hitting 100C+! This is what convinced me that I can't keep this rig quiet and still use air cooling to get better temps.

-4Gb DDR2-800MHz OCZ Reaper (CL 4) RAM

-Western Digital 6400AAKS 640Gb dual-platter harddrive (suspended)

-generic DVD burner and a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE sound card.

The only real thing I have trouble keeping cool is the video card obviously. While I'd like to get able to get a decent OC out of both the CPU and the GPU, it's not important if I don't. I'm not looking to hack apart the case just yet, so I'm wanting to just go with single 12cm radiator, doubling as the exhaust. I'm also trying to keep everything in the case neat and tidy, so I can still get to expansion cards and RAM, all while keeping everything internal. I know the SOLO isn't praised for being roomy, but I think I can do it with minimal cutting. Here are the water-cooling parts I've been looking at.

-HW Labs BlackIceXtreme 12cm radiator (a friend is giving me one for free, so this will be the start of my system.)

Danger Den DDC LGA775 CPU block (for multi-core)
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=385

Danger Den Maze5 GPU block (with RAM sinks)
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=254

Danger Den CPX1 12v pump
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=279

Danger Den fill-port / reservoir
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=190

Scythe Ultra-Kaze low-speed (1000rpm) 120mm x 38mm fan for radiator
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185052

I only have a few questions about my proposed setup though.

Is the pump loud? I have no idea about it, and was going by recommendation by a friend (the same one giving me the radiator).

Will the fan I chose work on the radiator and as an case exhaust?

Will a core-only GPU block be sufficient for my card, especially when it's getting relatively low air-flow? I was originally thinking of getting a full-coverage block.

Any other things I'm missing from my setup, or any parts recommendations? Please pardon the wall of text, and I appreciate any replies.

-TLG.
 
First off, you're going to need more radiator than that. If you want really good temps and low noise, then get a Swiftech MCR320 (triple radiator) and you'll be able to run low speed fans on that no problem. If you set it up with that radiator, you'll probably do about the same as air cooling if not worse.

Also, those blocks are quite dated. I'd recommend the Swiftech Apogee GTZ for your CPU block, I have one and it's fantastic. It'll definitely perform better than the one you chose. For your GPU, I'd get the Swiftech MCW-60. Both are solid performers and better than the ones you selected.

For the pump/reservoir, I'd recommend the Swiftech MCP355 with a XSPC Res Top. This will give you a pump/res unit in one piece and will get you just about the best possible pumping power you can get short of a really expensive Iwaki pump.

That fan is fine, I'm running some 2000rpm versions on my MCR220 and they do a good job, nice and quiet, even at 12v, completely silent at 7v. I'd do a GPU-only block on that card partly because they're reusable, which is awesome, but also because that particular card is hard to find full cover blocks for. I checked Petra's, Sidewinder, and jab-tech just now and didn't see any.
 
I'm sure the MCR320 is nice, but I also mentioned that I won't cut the case and I want to keep everything internal. The reason I chose that rad... well, I didn't. A friend is giving me one for free. I could add a second, but even that would require some rigging. Also, the BiX rads are dual-pass units, and twice as thick as the QuietPower rads from Swiftech. I figured a single fan radiator could hold it's own, especially considering all my chips are undervolted. I really can't imagine getting similar or worse temps on water with the single rad vs air cooling. Water retains heat much better than air, and is easily removed by a good radiator. I figured with 2 silent fans in a push/pull, or one thicker fan, I could easily get by with one radiator.

The blocks I chose are dated? Huh? I know the Maze 5 has been around a while, but the DDC-MC (multi-core) is only a year or so old. In comparison to the MCW-60 which has been around for years. Also, I chose those blocks for their cost/performance ratio. The Apogee GTZ is a $70 block, compared to the one I linked to which is only $42. Do you really think that the price difference is worth the slight decrease in temps?

I haven't heard good things about the MCP355. I mean, I've heard it's a great pump and all, but it's twice the pump of the original 350, and isn't very quiet from what I've heard from most people.

When I say I'm looking for quiet, I don't mean like "someone whispering" quiet. I'm running a single 1000rpm Nexus RealSilent fan right now, and 2x 100mm fans on my HD4870. I'm not looking for silence, but I am looking to make my rig quieter. Hence, water cooling. I'm not OCing, as I've said in the first post, so as long as the temps are decent, I don't really mind.
 
My point is, it won't be quiet, not with that radiator. The BIX radiators are renowned for performing extremely well, but only with very high CFM fans. Their fins are very close together (high fin per inch count) and they are very thick radiators, only very strong fans can push enough air through them to cool well. You need something much more powerful than a 1000RPM Scythe Ultra Kaze. I'd say a 3000RPM model probably.

Yes, water retains heat better than air but ultimately it comes down to removing heat from the water. I simply don't think a single radiator is enough for a dual core CPU and a fairly warm GPU. You're certainly welcome to try but either your setup will run as good or warmer than air with lower noise or it'll be cooler than air but much louder.

I guess dated wasn't the right word. They are outclassed. The Maze 5 isn't as good as the MCW60 and the GTZ is MUCH better than the DDC-MC. Also, you obviously didn't look at my link, newegg has it for $60, not $70. At that point, yes, it's worth it over the DDC-MC for an extra $18.

If you can find an MCP350, you could probably get away with that if you didn't use the Maze 5. That's a restrictive block and the MCP350 doesn't have as much pressure as the 355. I don't know how loud the 355 is, but I'm planning on adding a switch to my 350 so I can toggle between the two different speeds and I'll let you know what the noise difference is if you haven't purchased by then.

If you want quiet, then you need a different radiator. That radiator is optimized for high CFM fans, not low CFM fans. If you run low CFM fans on it, it'll perform horribly. If you want your setup to be quiet you need a radiator which is optimized for low CFM fans, which means more radiator than a single 120mm.
 
Here's a thought: Why don't you buy used?

For the price of that CPX1, you can get a used MCP655 and roughly double your water throughput.
For the price of that waterblock, add in 8$ more, and you can get a used Fuzion V2, a MUCH better block.

That radiator though... With 2, 2000rpm fans, it could dissipate 300w of heat, under most circumstances.

Now, your CPU, the e8400, will be creating roughly 150w of heat under full load (0.020*(1.37^2)*4000). Full load on a quad core doesn't happen very often - but full load on a dual will.​
Additionally, your 4870 will be creating roughly 170w under full load. More if you overclock.
​
See where I'm going here? That takes you well over the 300w of your radiator... And we're already using 2000rpm fans (read: loud as all hell. About equal the stock 4870 fan at 40% per fan). When this happens, you're better off going air cooling IMO.

You're going to want to add at LEAST another single radiator to the loop somewhere (shouldn't be too hard) to get your fans down to 1600rpm, and you'll want to swap out that BIX with an MCR (as stated earlier) to allow for a good, 1200rpm fan on every rad.
 
Yes, good advice here. A single 120mm rad and a Nexus just won't cut it with the loop's heatdump like that. As already mentioned, that thicker BIX rad is also more restrictive; i.e. it has a high fincount on it requiring higher speed fans to push air through it. Watercooling generally is going to require some modding to do it internal and do it clean, unless you have oodles of room in the rig.

Good luck with your project!
 
If you want internal, have you thought about cutting your case? I have a 2x120mm rad on the top of my case, in front of my PSU.
 
I appreciate all the advice, but I'm still a bit confused on the radiator thing. I understand that the BiX is more restrictive and not great for a quiet fan. But after doing some math, and a bit of research into watts/BTUs and TDP, here's what I've got. My E8400 has a TDP rating of 65w, and my HD4870 is supposed to have a maximum of 225w, but is said to run around 170 at stock settings. So that's a total of 235w TDP for this loop. The conversion for BTUs is 1w = 3.412 BTU/hr. Using this math, my loop is only having to handle roughly 802 BTU/hr. The BiX radiator is rated for 3,134 BTU/hr. Am I getting my math right?
 
I don't know about the math, I never did the math for my loop, but if you want advice, why are you ignoring what we're telling you? You asked for advice and had 3 different people on this forum and another person over on xtremesystems tell you that a single 120mm radiator isn't going to cut it. It just won't. Trust me, it's better to spend a little more up front and get it done right the first time. Plus that radiator won't let you run silent fans, so you need a different radiator for silence anyways.
 
I'm not ignoring. If I was ignoring your advice, I wouldn't be posting with more questions asking. I'd just go with my original plan. I really do appreciate the advice.

Ok, so my free BiX rad won't work with a quiet fan. How exactly do I know how large of a radiator to get? After really thinking hard, I have just barely enough room for a 2-fan radiator up top, just in front of my PSU, and about enough room for a 3-fan radiator on the bottom, although I'll be losing a PCI slot or two. Is it just a guestimation? Is there any real science to it?

Since this is a quiet build, I'm trying to keep the amount of fans to a minimum. Even if I had several fans, they'd have to be well under the human hearing limit of approximately 18Dba to still be quiet.

Since my original idea clearly isn't going to work, how would you guys do a quiet water-cooling build in an Antec Solo with minimal cutting? I'm open to all suggestions.
 
If you throw in a triple rad on the bottom, and use only 1200rpm yate loon fans, set to 5v, you should be good to go... They should be quieter than your PSU as well.

Remember, your PSU isn't running at < 28dba, ever... So that whole 18dba thing is a load of bullshit :)
 
One thing you could do is hang the radiator off the back of the case with a radbox if you want to minimize cutting. That way you could mount a nice triple radiator and only need to cut 2 holes for tubes coming into the case. A small 1" hole saw attached to a power drill would do the trick easily. There's no exact science to choosing what radiator you need, I'd recommend going by what other people's results are and what they've seen and their experience.

For example, I had my E3110 running at 4.005GHz and my 4870x2 sharing an MCR320 and my temperatures on load (running OCCT and Furmark) were roughly 47-52 on the GPUs and 48 on the CPU. I put a MCR220 in the loop and also added my northbridge and now the GPUs load around 42-45 and the CPU loads just at 44.
 
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