Driving Headphones...

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Kursah

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
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I'm considering replacing my current Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music with an Auzen X-Fi Forte 7.1 sometime in the future when the price drops. My main reason is the amp headphone output and it being seperate from the other outputs, yet still having the X-Fi chip and support. I have no qualms with my current X-Fi, but I am getting a set of JVC HA-RX700's and may pick up a set of HA-DX3's in a little while too, maybe something else...just depends on how well I like the 700's overall. It's my first true headphones in years...so I'm kinda stoked to get back to them.

But none-the-less I like the idea of a dedicated amp on the card with X-Fi output support and goodies, and having my powered logitech x-230's on a seperate output instead of my current situation using the HPA2's provided splitters. Plus swappable opamps would be interesting in the future too without having too much hassle and a pci-e 1x slot is better placed for me than the PCI slot.

So I'm open to suggestions as I don't want to spend $130 on that card tbh, so I will use my headphones with my current X-fi till then...I don't mind the software or the card, but I would like to have a decent headphone drive eventually, but I'd like to get some ideas...again I love the idea of the Auzen card, but just can't spend that atm.
 
No on-card amp is going to be that great. You'll get better results if you save for a desktop amp.

On the up side, the HARX and the ATHs they're based on aren't very picky about amplification.
 
Well how much are we looking for a decent desktop amp? And for $30-$100 headphones is it truly worth it? For a 50/50 gaming/music rig?

I don't expect the Auzen to be amazing, but I have read that it's a decent and stable output, especially compared to the normal outputs it features and other cards like my x-fi use. If it was closer to $50 or $60 bucks I'd probably have snagged it, but at more than twice that...that's why I'm asking. :D
 
My DT770s and V6s were both ~$100, and both benefit greatly from an amp. It's part dependent, not really budget dependent.

You could also look at DAC+amp devices which would give a more comprehensive change.
 
Well I'm budget dependant, so what would I have to pay to enjoy a change at this point? Something that would do good with gaming and music as-far-as output goes? Thanks for your insight thus far, I appreciate it. :D
 
At the least, I would wait until you've had the HARX for a bit as that should already be a huge step forwards. Also do you need anything beyond stereo, for your speakers?
 
I hope so, I've really heard no direct comparison's, but I do know the HPA2's lack in overall sound and treble, but have a decent amout of bass. I read a lot about the 700's before going with them, almost got the 900's, but I listen to mostly rock and game a ton so it seemed the 700's would be my best bet. If not, they were cheap (er than the HPA2's also!).

I do plan on waiting for at least a bit, I was kind of curious of that auzen w/headphone amp was at least decent and if not, what would be better to drive in a similar price range, I've seen some expnesive stuff, just can't really swing that kind of cash.
 
the x-fi can drive the rx700 very well. try using the equalizer and bass boost, pm me if u need help. also, an x-fi is about as strong as a lot of portable amps so dont waste your money on a cmoy or such. save up for either the forte or an inexpensive desktop amp, such as a creek obh-11 or a little dot 1.

once you have some decent amps its hard to live without them!
 
Sweet, that makes me feel better about just using my current card and saving money for now.

The 700's won't be here till' monday last I checked so I have some time before I need to worry about it I suppose. I do like the looks of that Creek obh-11 though, that might be something I pick up in the future. Thanks.
 
The Auzentech cards can drive the headphones quite well. Even higher impedance cans. That is what they are known for anyways, strong analog output. The HARX should not need much amping anyways.
 
The on-board amps on both the Asus Essence STX and the Auzen Forte are actually quite remarkable. From what I've heard and read they easily surpass any amp in the under $200-300 category.

See the review at Guru3d on both cards, lots of good information.
 
43st said:
The on-board amps on both the Asus Essence STX and the Auzen Forte are actually quite remarkable. From what I've heard and read they easily surpass any amp in the under $200-300 category.
Click to expand...

Um, no.

I hate dealing with hype waves...
 
43st said:
The on-board amps on both the Asus Essence STX and the Auzen Forte are actually quite remarkable. From what I've heard and read they easily surpass any amp in the under $200-300 category.

See the review at Guru3d on both cards, lots of good information.
Click to expand...

Which sounds great, but is there more beyond that? I would like to know if someone has done an actual comparison of this card and a $200-300 amp? I've heard good things about both cards, and someday when I can snag a Forte for a reasonable price I still just might!

ashmedai said:
Um, no.

I hate dealing with hype waves...
Click to expand...

And hype wave or not, can you provide me with some comparisons beyond what is just being said here or no offense, but an "um, no." response? I'm definately up for some reading and not doubting that a more expensive and more single task-wise dedicated device is more capable at that single task than say something that integrates it, but overall in the variety, something that can retain the tasks and abilites of what I have and improve on areas that just might be useful would also be a plus without adding more junk outside of the PC for someone that doesn't need to have the best.

But from what I've read the Forte will be an upgrade (and from what I've read a worthy one at that) compared to my current x-fi, so it's definately something I'll consider down the road. But also as a gamer/music listener (not lossless, most of my stuff is 192+ MP3's from when I converted my CD's and couldn't hear any different off of worse audio). Not saying I don't want the best sound for the buck either, but I also want decent value, which I think the Forte at $130 is not. Maybe at $60-80, but not at it's current retail price. I'm also not planning on getting rid of my curent x-fi any day soon and will definately take ourfpshero's suggestion and just go with what I have for now. Thanks for the suggestions, options and insight thus far, but please keep the uninformative posts to a minimal from here-on out, this is a thread I want to take seriously and gain some knowlege from experinece and comparisons more than hype bashing or one-sided opinions, sure if you had good experience with something, please, post it here. But if you say it beats much more expensive options, how do you know? is it from experience or from others' opinoins? Or like above, some reading and food for thought was posted is definately a plus. Again thanks, I hope to gain some good stuff out of this thread, and hope it stays friendly and crapless. Cheers.
 
Kursah said:
And hype wave or not, can you provide me with some comparisons beyond what is just being said here or no offense, but an "um, no." response?
Click to expand...

They're both great cards. But saying they're better than all $300 amps is just false. Saying they easily surpass all $300 amps is just hype and should be obviously incorrect to an informed reader.

Compared to an X-Fi, there should be an increase in DAC quality and (especially for the STX which takes extraordinary measures for a sound card) an increase in amp quality. But again, compared to all $300 amps? No, no way is that true. Not by miles.

It does give the advantage of a simultaneous DAC upgrade coming from an X-Fi, while most desktop amps are an amp only and you would have to address the DAC separately (some do incorporate a DAC though). But that's not his claim - he claimed that they're easily better than all $300 amps, which has absolutely no basis in fact. I'm using a $300 Little Dot tube amp, and there's no way I'd take either of those cards over it. And this is just the option I went with - there are numerous others.
 
ashmedai is right to a certain extent and my wording is poor, there are a few diamonds in the rough at that price range (some china made stuff), but not across the board and certainly nothing that will make an Extreme Music sound better than either an STX or Forte.

But to say that no on-board amp is going to be that great is simply misleading. As well as to imply that the ATH or HARX would not benefit from amplification, because they most likely would, and he knows this.

I think you're going in the right direction considering your budget.
 
43st said:
As well as to imply that the ATH or HARX would not benefit from amplification, because they most likely would
Click to expand...

Not that much, based on consensus e.g. Head-Fi FAQ and on my experimentation with my ATH-A900s.
 
Well I'm happy, the 700's showed up today..only had them going about an hour, and I gotta say they sound much better than the HPA2's for music thus far. Lots of volume, I am running Winamp at about 50% volume and the main volume is at maybe 30% tops...beyond that it gets pretty loud. But I am running the EQ, though a much flatter sweep than the HPA2's needed..the imaging is good, they are also quite a bit larger than what I'm used to, but overall for $33 bucks...I'm massively impressed. My X-Fi is driving them great. I've read that some run the HARX amped, and some don't, but the consensus is either way that the owners were mostly happy.

I still may get the X-Fi forte so my fiance can enjoy an improved sound over her onboard audio (GB P35-Ds3l, pretty sure it's an ALC885 or similar, it's decent for onboard). All I gotta do is wait out a deal for that card, and right now there's it's not a massive rush, at least yet! :D
 
Extra amplification won't hurt if you want to experiment. And many headphones will benefit from or will need better amplification if you want to upgrade in the future.
 
Get a forte! You wont regret it! I have one and it sounds amazing with my Grado SR-80's. (Better than any other PC source I have plugged them into, by FAR)
 
43st said:
The on-board amps on both the Asus Essence STX and the Auzen Forte are actually quite remarkable. From what I've heard and read they easily surpass any amp in the under $200-300 category.
Click to expand...

You can get iCute Fubar headphone amp for well under $200.00 and I highly doubt they match that. I have a friend with one and it is pretty good. Not as good as my $200.00 LunchboxPro tube amp though. Mine is nearly twice as powerful as the iCute.
 
Good to know, but has anyone actually been able to compare the Forte and sub $200 headphone amps? I mean I'm sure the amps should be better, but the feature list of the Forte is probably what would win it for me...but I'm still curious! :D

Thanks for the info and suggestions thus far!
 
I upgraded to a Forte when it was released. It's on-board amp was much better than the Prelude + Upgraded Zero that I had used before. I also have a RSA P-51, but it's more of a musical amp and not really comparable to the Forte, it's also much more expensive. I have tried both in gaming and the Forte's neutrality seems better suited to the task.
 
Thank you, very good info thus far. I'm definately leaning towards getting the Forte at this point. Still enjoying the sound straight out of my X-Fi Xtreme Music, and can only imagine improvements from there.

Too bad the X-Fi Titanium I/O Drive add-on doesn't also have an amped headphone output...it'd really be nice to have game mode/cmms 3d switching on the fly and volume/level control too. But I'm slowly adjusting to using the volume keys on my G15. :p

Now if I could find a Forte for closer to even $100 I might be able to justify it a tad more.
 
ashmedai said:
Not that much, based on consensus e.g. Head-Fi FAQ and on my experimentation with my ATH-A900s.
Click to expand...

The RX700 has actually improved a lot due to amping.

The bloated muddy bass disappeared and became a LOT more controlled. This is through my AV40 amp. It's actually really quite nice, and a cool bonus for AV40 users. On Head-Fi people ran their HD600/650 through them and said it sounded quite nice.
 
Sweet, now I just gotta decide if I should go a route that just has me running an amp from my current X-Fi or going the simpler route and getting the Auzen X-Fi that has an amp built in. The Auzen claims around 100mW output, I forget if they listed at what resistance that output was rated for.

I think at this point, since I can't afford to spend a solid $200+ on an amp that's truly worth it, I might just wait...if a better deal comes up on the Auzen X-Fi Forte, I'll probably just snag it (we're talking closer or less than $100), if not, I'll eventually get enough for a decent headphone amp. Not looking to replace my rarely used Logitech X-230's...they sound great for my needs, and 98% of the time my headphones are on anways. For now I'm pretty happy. And more suggestions are welcome. :D
 
Yea, that's the problem with these amp specs. A lot of them don't say at which impedance. My Lunchboxpro says 240mw driving HD650 which is a 300ohm headphone so that is pretty good for the $200.00 it cost me. Many of the cheaper $100.00 amps are only about 60 - 100mw.
 
A friend of mine just uses a late 90s Kenwood receiver as a headphone amp, he says the difference listening to the computer using the pc's amp vs. the Kenwood is just night and day on his HD280s )
 
Oh yeah, I've heard that too, but I have a smaller PC desk and would like to keep it that way (I live in a small 2bd room apt with my fiance). Though I suppose I could use it as a monitor stand, which would actually be kinda nice. My dad's Onkyo 7.1 reciever has a helluva headphone output, puts my X-Fi right to shame.

I am still considering the Auzen, but I wish the x-fi titanium front panel had an amped output, the volume knob would be a plus, but I'm sure the noise from the cable would get annoying. But the 2 needed outputs + the buttons for switching to gaming mode and turning on cmms-3d would be extremely useful. It looks like a nice module that again isn't worth the price, but would be a handy unit if it in fact had a headphone amp...supposedly the Forte has an amped output to the front panel, or so it says in it's description...but hard saying how well it'd work out with the patch cable and whatever circutry is in the front panel unit...definately wouldn't use the case's HD FP connector...even on my HAF it is worse than 3rd rate. I don't care for perfect "audiophile sound", I almost purchased a Little Dot I+ yesterday, but decided against it because it's not what I want...it's getting into an area I don't feel I need to go. None-the-less I gotta still have a mic input for gaming, and would like to continue using CMMS-3D for FPS games...that's a big reason why sticking with a sound card would be a good choice for me.

But I might just look at a simple audio reciever, setup a way to drive my Logitech X-230's in line-out, and use the front headphone output for my JVC's. But it's just adding more stuff outside of my PC into an already stuffed area lol. Definately a good suggestion though! Thanks! :D
 
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