Ditching Blu-ray And DVDs To Go Digital

roaf85 said:
Its amazing that some of you guys are content with spending hours and we are talking hours to rip a BluRay bit by bit and then to say "yea we are just throwing it on a hard drive".

You are taking a medium (BluRay) that has a shelf life much much higher than a hard disk drive and you are saying that is ok?

If you are spending hours upon hours of backing up something you aren't just going to throw it only a hard disk drive and be ok with that, you are talking about mirror that storage solution with identical drives and that isn't even that safe.

before you know it you need a full blown NAS/SAN solution or online back up.

You literally could spend a year of your life worrying about making your BluRay collection digital and backed up so that you don't need to rely on the disc.

Its madness.
Click to expand...

So instead of being a cheap bastard and throwing it onto a single "backup" drive we can be less cheap and throw it on a raid 1 array. I don't know what you're doin to your drives but the 40 gig I bought back in... what... 2000-2001? still even works fine. So if you're somehow losing data after raid 1 then condolences.
 
PornoSatan said:
So instead of being a cheap bastard and throwing it onto a single "backup" drive we can be less cheap and throw it on a raid 1 array. I don't know what you're doin to your drives but the 40 gig I bought back in... what... 2000-2001? still even works fine. So if you're somehow losing data after raid 1 then condolences.
Click to expand...

Raid 1 isn't a back up. You don't get that. When someone wants a Raid 1 array I ask them questions on the cost to their business etc.

A Raid 1 array is for when I have data and business processes so crucial that I can't be without them for more than a few hours.

I still use a 2004 WD 320 GB drive that is running find and still SMARTS out for whatever that is worth, however I am not that guy that is spending hours upon hours just backing up something like a movie that I might never use or need access too.
 
roaf85 said:
Raid 1 isn't a back up. You don't get that. When someone wants a Raid 1 array I ask them questions on the cost to their business etc.

A Raid 1 array is for when I have data and business processes so crucial that I can't be without them for more than a few hours.

I still use a 2004 WD 320 GB drive that is running find and still SMARTS out for whatever that is worth, however I am not that guy that is spending hours upon hours just backing up something like a movie that I might never use or need access too.
Click to expand...

So you don't want to put them on a HD because of their "shelf life", and I offer you a redundancy option but you still refuse. Dude, if you want to be taping up your boxes of various media and marking it "DVD movies" and then taping up another box with "Music CD's" and another with "Encyclopedias" be my guest, but I'm going to throw it all onto a bunch of TB hd's and call it a day.
 
Just to be clear here, i'm not advocating cloud media services either when converting to digital. I like owners to actually own things, just not in physical "hoarders" style.
 
Buying a Blu-ray only gives you ownership of the disc itself and the associated packaging. You still don't own the movie: you are granted a limited-use license to the content.
 
PornoSatan said:
So instead of being a cheap bastard and throwing it onto a single "backup" drive we can be less cheap and throw it on a raid 1 array. I don't know what you're doin to your drives but the 40 gig I bought back in... what... 2000-2001? still even works fine. So if you're somehow losing data after raid 1 then condolences.
Click to expand...

Exactly. In my 20+ years of having computers as a hobby, I have never lost a hard drive. Probably owned 50 to a hundred of them at this rate.

That being said, even the best redundant RAID array will never be entirely safe. RAID can protect you against hardware failure. It can't protect you against software failure (corrupt partitions, accidental deletions, virus/malware wiping shit, etc.) it also can't protect against catastrophic loss. (Flood, fire, ceiling leak dousing entire array, etc.) Always a good idea to maintain a separate off-site.

That, and its a bad idea to have a RAID array with only one redundant drive. Sure you are protected against one drive failure. But what happens if something goeas wrong while replacing that drive, or during the many hour long rebuild process with the replacement? You lose if not all, a lot of data.

Rules of data security:
- At least two redundant drives in your array
- Regular off site backups.

The latter I am struggling with a good solution for.
 
PornoSatan said:
So instead of being a cheap bastard and throwing it onto a single "backup" drive we can be less cheap and throw it on a raid 1 array. I don't know what you're doin to your drives but the 40 gig I bought back in... what... 2000-2001? still even works fine. So if you're somehow losing data after raid 1 then condolences.
Click to expand...

I think Roaf85 is missing the point though and technically he is correct about the longevity. If you think your hard drive will last as long as optical media the simple truth is that it won't. Hard drives are highly mechanical pieces of hardware they won't take to decades of service. Spend a few weeks in a server farm and you'll see hard drives being changed out , sometimes frequently and those hard drives are rated for far more punishment then your home drives.

The point of ripping Blu Ray's to a HDD however is ease of use. You can rip a Blu Ray , in full , in ISO format and easily use a front end software to manage it with a pretty GUI that will allow you to access it more readily. Meanwhile your optical media can be stored in a dry , cool place and last possibly much longer than with more exposed usage. Of course no one really knows if Blu Ray media will last for as long as they've been rated but at least by putting it on a hard drive you are going to be able to access it faster and easier and it might just actually protect your media in the process.
 
Godmachine said:
I think Roaf85 is missing the point though and technically he is correct about the longevity. If you think your hard drive will last as long as optical media the simple truth is that it won't.
Click to expand...

The difference is that when your hard drive dies, you replace it and restore from backup.

When your BD dies, you........ buy a new one.
 
kumquat said:
The difference is that when your hard drive dies, you replace it and restore from backup.

When your BD dies, you........ buy a new one.
Click to expand...

Except I know a lot of people who don't use RAID array's to do Blu Ray storage. Most of the people interested in HDD storage of Blu Ray movies are more concerned with the amount of storage possible then the method and find RAID setup's too complicated.

I know that's not the case here on this forum but I'm talking in a general sense.
 
Godmachine said:
Except I know a lot of people who don't use RAID array's to do Blu Ray storage. Most of the people interested in HDD storage of Blu Ray movies are more concerned with the amount of storage possible then the method and find RAID setup's too complicated.

I know that's not the case here on this forum but I'm talking in a general sense.
Click to expand...

I don't believe I said a word about RAID.
 
PornoSatan said:
So you don't want to put them on a HD because of their "shelf life", and I offer you a redundancy option but you still refuse. Dude, if you want to be taping up your boxes of various media and marking it "DVD movies" and then taping up another box with "Music CD's" and another with "Encyclopedias" be my guest, but I'm going to throw it all onto a bunch of TB hd's and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I said. I said before:

" If you are spending hours upon hours of backing up something you aren't just going to throw it only a hard disk drive and be ok with that, you are talking about mirror that storage solution with identical drives and that isn't even that safe."

Let me draw this out:

Drive 1 is 2 TB (cost of around 100-150) and then you need to mirror that data to a second drive. Not raid, but a second drive costing just as much.

I am taking a sample that a BluRay holds about 30 gb where as a 2 TB drive formats down to around like something 1.7 TB in windows or 1.8. This is a guess. I dont want to do math today.

So that being said a 2 TB drive holds like what? Maybe ~75 BluRays? If you are a movie buff I would think you collection would be no less than 100, plus you have TV shows that are multi disc.

I am assuming that even the fastest back ups still take at least an hour or 2 and it something you can't batch since you have swap the disc physically. So that being said it could take months to rip your collection.

However unless you are throwing away the BluRays I wouldn't raid them because you don't need a redundant solution for movie back ups.

Not to mention you add overhead to the machine and that fact that those storage controllers on most mainboards are just shitty I wouldn't risk it.

I am telling you redundancy was never created as a data back up solution and I don't know a company that uses Raid 1 as a back up.

So my point I was trying to say that if the average BluRay sells for 3 dollars in trade in and maybe 6-7 on the open used market, maybe as much as 10 dollars, then why worry about spending hundreds of dollars to back something up that pretty much will zero out.

And I say zero out because there are already DVDs I own that because people have tried to sell or don't want business won't even sell them because they have an overstock.

Understand? I am not trying to be a dick here.
 
kumquat said:
The difference is that when your hard drive dies, you replace it and restore from backup.

When your BD dies, you........ buy a new one.
Click to expand...

When does a BD die though? Can I bet you a case of beer that your hard drive will fail before the disc though?
 
Godmachine said:
Except I know a lot of people who don't use RAID array's to do Blu Ray storage. Most of the people interested in HDD storage of Blu Ray movies are more concerned with the amount of storage possible then the method and find RAID setup's too complicated.

I know that's not the case here on this forum but I'm talking in a general sense.
Click to expand...

I know how the set up a raid array, but you don't see me using one for my home system.
 
Godmachine said:
I think Roaf85 is missing the point though and technically he is correct about the longevity. If you think your hard drive will last as long as optical media the simple truth is that it won't. Hard drives are highly mechanical pieces of hardware they won't take to decades of service. Spend a few weeks in a server farm and you'll see hard drives being changed out , sometimes frequently and those hard drives are rated for far more punishment then your home drives.

The point of ripping Blu Ray's to a HDD however is ease of use. You can rip a Blu Ray , in full , in ISO format and easily use a front end software to manage it with a pretty GUI that will allow you to access it more readily. Meanwhile your optical media can be stored in a dry , cool place and last possibly much longer than with more exposed usage. Of course no one really knows if Blu Ray media will last for as long as they've been rated but at least by putting it on a hard drive you are going to be able to access it faster and easier and it might just actually protect your media in the process.
Click to expand...

God I get your point however look, fuck maybe I should just do a video.

I go to a consumer and say the following:

Hey we have this streaming service that does high quality movies over your 3-6 mbit connection.

(guy in the back)

"yea but its not as good as blu ray and blu ray quality is 30 gbs and blah blah blah"

consumer:

Yea he is right we fucking want BluRay quality.

Me (in logic the average person will not understand)

"Ok well in order to stream it you will need a 50 mbit connection so that is going to run you around 250 a month"

"Now if you don't want to stream and you just want to buy your movies and say "fuck the system" then you are going to need gigabit internet, but your set top device doesn't support that and you need to wire your house for the connection:

So the contractor to wire your house for CAT6 is going to cost around 400, then you will need either a HTPC or a hard drive farm to back up your collect. This will probably cost another 600.

Oh and you have the cost of buying your BluRays too.

----------------------------


Yea fuck that shit give us the 8 dollar a month mid quality Netflix stream.
 
roaf85 said:
God I get your point however look, fuck maybe I should just do a video.

I go to a consumer and say the following:

Hey we have this streaming service that does high quality movies over your 3-6 mbit connection.

(guy in the back)

"yea but its not as good as blu ray and blu ray quality is 30 gbs and blah blah blah"

consumer:

Yea he is right we fucking want BluRay quality.

Me (in logic the average person will not understand)

"Ok well in order to stream it you will need a 50 mbit connection so that is going to run you around 250 a month"

"Now if you don't want to stream and you just want to buy your movies and say "fuck the system" then you are going to need gigabit internet, but your set top device doesn't support that and you need to wire your house for the connection:

So the contractor to wire your house for CAT6 is going to cost around 400, then you will need either a HTPC or a hard drive farm to back up your collect. This will probably cost another 600.

Oh and you have the cost of buying your BluRays too.

----------------------------


Yea fuck that shit give us the 8 dollar a month mid quality Netflix stream.
Click to expand...


You guys and your $199 HTiB setups :mad: ;)
 
roaf85 said:
When does a BD die though? Can I bet you a case of beer that your hard drive will fail before the disc though?
Click to expand...

When your house burns down, or someone breaks in and steals them.

Godmachine said:
So then you are talking a straight one to one back up? Why not do at least RAID-1 if that's the case and double your reliability?
Click to expand...

I do RAID, but it's not necessary. I said "backup" not "RAID." Having a handful of $100 2 or 3 TB drives with no redundancy, and a mirror of each for an offsite backup, works just fine and is cheap and easy.
 
roaf85 said:
God I get your point however look, fuck maybe I should just do a video.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you should do that. We're clearly too stupid to understand your brilliance through text, and that's a flaw on our part.
 
kumquat said:
When your house burns down, or someone breaks in and steals them.



I do RAID, but it's not necessary. I said "backup" not "RAID." Having a handful of $100 2 or 3 TB drives with no redundancy, and a mirror of each for an offsite backup, works just fine and is cheap and easy.
Click to expand...

That works too, it seems roaf85 is the odd man out here.
 
Godmachine said:
Perhaps its because I have the Flu and I'm partly braintarded right now but exactly why doesn't increase reliability? :p
Click to expand...

Its cool bro. Basically you have 2 drives which always always work in tandem. So basically instead of doing a 1 to 1 copy where your copy only runs or copies to disc lets just say for 30 minutes a day you have a raid solution like raid 1 where both drives are used for X amount of hours per day, month, year.

So lets say you screw something up on your machine, virus whatever, that is going to completely copy to drive 2 in your array.

You won't be able to just both up your drive 2 either because you can't remove a drive from most raid arrays without first breaking the array.

Not to mention there are numerous problems with rebuilding arrays on consumer level boards etc. or basically just the consumer chips just corrupting the array.

You can raid 1 all day long, it just isn't needed for something like BluRay and not really a back up solution.
 
kumquat said:
When your house burns down, or someone breaks in and steals them.
Click to expand...

You can make the same argument for your array or your storage solution unless you are using an offshore or cloud back up.

If someone broke into my house the blu ray backups would be the least of my worries.
 
Stiletto said:
Yeah, you should do that. We're clearly too stupid to understand your brilliance through text, and that's a flaw on our part.
Click to expand...

Stiletto I have no clue why you are so butt hurt. I seriously I am not going through your posts in other threads just to thread cap.

Just relax honestly. I am not going to be bullied here because you don't agree with something in another thread. Keep it to that thread please.
 
roaf85 said:
Just relax honestly.
Click to expand...

I'm not unrelaxed. I'm mocking your projected consternation over slight disagreement. You're on a tech enthusiast forum, not a forum of average Best Buy customers who don't understand the difference between 1080p and 7.1. Take your own advice.
 
roaf85 said:
That is what I said. A hand ful of back ups. can you read my post from "Today 01:14 PM".

My point is it isn't cost effective.
Click to expand...

OK, in your 1:14 post you said:

However unless you are throwing away the BluRays I wouldn't raid them because you don't need a redundant solution for movie back ups.
Click to expand...

Do we atleast agree that ripping them to disk and tossing all that physical media taking up space in the house is a good idea?
 
roaf85 said:
You can make the same argument for your array or your storage solution unless you are using an offshore or cloud back up.

If someone broke into my house the blu ray backups would be the least of my worries.
Click to expand...

"and a mirror of each for an offsite backup"

It's not that hard. If you want it to be braindead simple and cheap, a couple of 2 or 3 TB drives in your PC, and a couple of 2-3 TB USB 3.0 drives you keep in your desk at work and bring home once a month to sync.
 
Stiletto said:
I'm not unrelaxed. I'm mocking your projected consternation over slight disagreement. You're on a tech enthusiast forum, not a forum of average Best Buy customers who don't understand the difference between 1080p and 7.1. Take your own advice.
Click to expand...

Which is what?

I am explaining how raid is not a back up solution, which it isn't. Do you want links

here is one:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-features/31745-data-recovery-tales-raid-is-not-backup

Type raid is not a back up solution into google you will get plenty more.

Hopefully I am adding value to this discussion. You are adding none of that.
 
kumquat said:
"and a mirror of each for an offsite backup"

It's not that hard. If you want it to be braindead simple and cheap, a couple of 2 or 3 TB drives in your PC, and a couple of 2-3 TB USB 3.0 drives you keep in your desk at work and bring home once a month to sync.
Click to expand...

Depends on your offsite back up. If we are talking to cloud then you are assuming that your offsite back up has multiple copies, which is probably does.

Something like carbonite probably backs up your data 10 fold is always moving it etc.
 
roaf85 said:
Depends on your offsite back up. If we are talking to cloud then you are assuming that your offsite back up has multiple copies, which is probably does.

Something like carbonite probably backs up your data 10 fold is always moving it etc.
Click to expand...

No, I'm talking about braindead simple and cheap: keeping a USB drive or three in your desk drawer at work.
 
Shit I hit submit, but the brain dead solution of buying external drives works its just a cheap solution.

2x 2 TB drives and 2 x 2TB external drives you are talking about a 500 dollar investment, plus the time to back all this stuff up and if you want to stream it even more money in an HTPC and the networking equipment if you want to stream it to more than one place.

And that still doesn't touch the mobile space. How do you watch a movie on your cell phone? You have to compress it or reencode.

WIth Netflix all I need is an app and 8 bucks a month.

Thats why it took off.
 
The smart person gets a friend to buy a cheap 4-bay NAS, which he brings over every few months to sync up to your array ;)
 
I don't care how you're keeping your backups maintained to be honest, just as long as it's in digital format. I'm a fan of cleanliness and I know someone who just moved and it really annoyed me lifting that box of 12 cookbooks and like 5 boxes of back breakingly heavy encyclopedias. She even had a few boxes of cassette tapes and such. You're a great person and all grandma but make use of that Kindle Fire and toss all that obsolete junk and pray my back gets better. :D
 
roaf85 said:
Which is what?

I am explaining how raid is not a back up solution, which it isn't. Do you want links

here is one:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-features/31745-data-recovery-tales-raid-is-not-backup
Click to expand...

When an article cites "human error" as the number one reason for not using a technological backup solution, they're ruling out pretty much all technological backup solutions. Also, citing natural disasters and criminal activities again applies to offsite backups, tape backups, NAS backups, etc.

RAID is not the best solution, but for significant amounts of data it provides a low-cost option, easy and local management, as well as redundancy. Ease of use and cost, versus most other options, remains pretty favorable to your average consumer who cares enough about their data.
 
roaf85 said:
2x 2 TB drives and 2 x 2TB external drives you are talking about a 500 dollar investment, plus the time to back all this stuff up and if you want to stream it even more money in an HTPC and the networking equipment if you want to stream it to more than one place.
Click to expand...

As opposed to offsite backups that cost a regular monthly rate that adds up over time to more than a 500 dollar investment, are out of your physical administration, and take even longer to back up because of the limitations of most upload speeds for consumer internet access?
 
Stiletto said:
When an article cites "human error" as the number one reason for not using a technological backup solution, they're ruling out pretty much all technological backup solutions. Also, citing natural disasters and criminal activities again applies to offsite backups, tape backups, NAS backups, etc.

RAID is not the best solution, but for significant amounts of data it provides a low-cost option, easy and local management, as well as redundancy. Ease of use and cost, versus most other options, remains pretty favorable to your average consumer who cares enough about their data.
Click to expand...

Ok bro whatever you say. It's not a back up solution nor is it low cost. Most average consumers probably don't even have a computer that support hardware raid.

Most hardware raid cards are upwards of 700-1000. Raid is a solution that runs at the enterprise level and was copied to the consumer market. It has little place in the consumer market.

And you do realize there are places in the united states where natural disasters are almost a moot point right?
 
Stiletto said:
As opposed to offsite backups that cost a regular monthly rate that adds up over time to more than a 500 dollar investment, are out of your physical administration, and take even longer to back up because of the limitations of most upload speeds for consumer internet access?
Click to expand...

Good job on taking what I said out of context bro.
 
kumquat said:
The smart person gets a friend to buy a cheap 4-bay NAS, which he brings over every few months to sync up to your array ;)
Click to expand...

All you have to do is hope nothing goes wrong with your array in those 4 months right!?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top