DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Ok but why use both Trusshead and Flathead, they are all interchangeable no? What difference does the shape of the head make? (I only get countersunk, as it needs to match diagonal extrusions..)
 
I know what you mean, I thought already about it to have only trusshead and remove flathead, because the diff is only the head. I think I will change it in the next days ; )
 
I think less confusion is good. All cases that I ever used have only two types of screws and yours has 5 :)

Also another thing for SFX-L configuration... In this case you have to replace bottom screw positions and add an hdd without the drive bay, yes? (not mentioned in the manual)

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I don't quite understand, why not just have 8 simple holes and use standard M3s. Simply unscrew and screw into 4 different holes, that's it. In this case you could get away with:

- less complexity
- only three types of screws in total
- easier assembly
- cheaper manufacturing
 
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promaty said:
What is the difference between Pinhead screws and Flathead screws? Any reason to use different ones? Also why not use C6-32 for the motherboard as it is standard for all other PC cases? (at least ones I had in the past)
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The first part has been answered, but the reason why C6-32 are not used for the motherboard is that LianLi uses M3 screws for their motherboard standoffs. As the case is manufactured by LianLi, that's what dan has to use.

I like M3 screws more than C6-32, especially as they are the standard for 2.5" drives, too. The only place where C6-32 is used by now are PSUs and 5.25" drives, the latter of which have no relevance in SFF.

promaty said:
I think less confusion is good. All cases that I ever used have only two types of screws and yours has 5 :)

Also another thing for SFX-L configuration... In this case you have to replace bottom screw positions and add an hdd without the drive bay, yes? (not mentioned in the manual)

http://s1.postimg.org/lc6gezxun/Capture.png

I don't quite understand, why not just have 8 simple holes and use standard M3s. Simply unscrew and screw into 4 different holes, that's it. In this case you could get away with:

- less complexity
- only three types of screws in total
- easier assembly
- cheaper manufacturing
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As it was already said, this number will be reduced to 4.
UNC6-32 is required because of the PSU.
M3 countersunk screws are required for outer panels because those screws are not allowed to protrude from the surface for optical reasons.
M3 flathead is used for pretty much everything.

And the mounting mechanism that is used here decouples the drives, which reduces the vibrations that are transmitted to the case. This is very important when using Hard drives and will reduce noise significantly. So the special M3 screws you see there are required, too.

Using less types of screws has almost no impact on the manufacturing cost what so ever, as they all use M3 threads anyway.
 
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This case looks amazing, I'll be using my build primarily for VR. I was wondering if anyone could give me a rough estimate on the difference between a watercooled i5-6600k vs fan cooled i5-6500? in terms of frame rates etc. I guess I"m deciding between a watercooled overclocked system in the NCase M1, or a a non-overcloacked in the af-sfx. Not sure if the extra costs would be worth it. Thanks!
 
-urchin- said:
This case looks amazing, I'll be using my build primarily for VR. I was wondering if anyone could give me a rough estimate on the difference between a watercooled i5-6600k vs fan cooled i5-6500? in terms of frame rates etc. I guess I"m deciding between a watercooled overclocked system in the NCase M1, or a a non-overcloacked in the af-sfx. Not sure if the extra costs would be worth it. Thanks!
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For VR, I imagine the biggest bottleneck to FPS is going to be your GPU–– all of the quad core skylake chips will probably not yield much difference in FPS whether they are overclocked or not. However, you might see a difference in the future. As games become more demanding and if you decide not to upgrade your hardware then having the ability to overclock on an old skylake chip could really help. Take a look at Sandy Bridge chips–– those chips when overclocked don't have much advantage over a skylake chip at stock clocks.

That being said, it isn't necessarily impossible to squeeze a few extra 100 MHz overclock with a decent cooler in the A4.
 
jb1 said:
For VR, I imagine the biggest bottleneck to FPS is going to be your GPU–– all of the quad core skylake chips will probably not yield much difference in FPS whether they are overclocked or not. However, you might see a difference in the future. As games become more demanding and if you decide not to upgrade your hardware then having the ability to overclock on an old skylake chip could really help. Take a look at Sandy Bridge chips–– those chips when overclocked don't have much advantage over a skylake chip at stock clocks.

That being said, it isn't necessarily impossible to squeeze a few extra 100 MHz overclock with a decent cooler in the A4.
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Thanks for the reply. I think I"ll probably stick to the non-oc'd then, save the extra $$. Guess that means i'm going with the A4-SFX then! wooo
 
-urchin- said:
This case looks amazing, I'll be using my build primarily for VR. I was wondering if anyone could give me a rough estimate on the difference between a watercooled i5-6600k vs fan cooled i5-6500? in terms of frame rates etc. I guess I"m deciding between a watercooled overclocked system in the NCase M1, or a a non-overcloacked in the af-sfx. Not sure if the extra costs would be worth it. Thanks!
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I've not noticed a difference in framerates between when I had a U9B-SE2 vs the C7 I've got now on my 3570K @ 4.1ghz.

And the i5 6500 has a lower TDP than my 3570K, so it should matter even less to it. :)
 
iFreilicht said:
And the mounting mechanism that is used here decouples the drives, which reduces the vibrations that are transmitted to the case. This is very important when using Hard drives and will reduce noise significantly. So the special M3 screws you see there are required, too.
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Ah the vibration of course! I have only used very cheap cases in the past, it never hit me that you can remove that annoying hdd sound with additional mounts, nice.

@dondan, still maybe another note for replacing screw positions in SFX-L builds would be nice :) I imagine that most people will be using SFX-L PSUs anyway since they have much better quality and 2 storage drives is sufficient for most users.
 
Very cool case, been searching for this for some time. If it performs umder load with high end cpu+gpu with the right equipment this will definetly be my preferred choise.

One thing I can't understand however is the price. It seems extremely high to me. Am I missing something that explains this, or is it simply because it's a one of a kind thing premium priced?
 
High manufacture quality (manufactured by LianLi) and a premium PCIe extender/riser cable with custom length 3M Twin Axial 300mm.
 
@jb1: Not for crowdfunding. But you can contanct me then directly.

promaty said:
@dondan, still maybe another note for replacing screw positions in SFX-L builds would be nice :) I imagine that most people will be using SFX-L PSUs anyway since they have much better quality and 2 storage drives is sufficient for most users.
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A SFX-L will also fit with HDD-Bay if only the bottom drive is installed inside the bay. So I decided to not include/document the possibility to mount this drive without the bay with directly attached hdd-bay-screws in it through the four other mount points.

Furthermore the side count (number of pages) is a problem. To make the manual printable the total number of pages must be divisible by 4. Currently we have 24 inner pages and 4 pages for the cover. So if I decide to add more content to the manual, I need content for 4 more pages. 
 
dondan said:
Furthermore the side count (number of pages) is a problem. To make the manual printable the total number of pages must be divisible by 4. Currently we have 24 inner pages and 4 pages for the cover. So if I decide to add more content to the manual, I need content for 4 more pages. 
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Oh wow, that's something that completely jumped my mind.
 
You can always add a couple blank pages for "notes," or some pretty drawings, or quote some of the more entertaining/ridiculous posts in this thread :p
 
Registered an account to follow this. The case looks perfect, and I'm definitely down for one once the crowdfunding starts.
 
Now that I have follow this for a while, Im definetely say that im down when the croudfunding is starting!

As for Dondan, I do still wondering regarding the watercool the x99 system, if it could be manage to install a corsair h55 with a 12 mm fan ? seeing people are doing it on the rvz01, I would like to know the possiblity there without any compromise to have an external rad on the table or skipping the IO sheild.

Thanks for taking your time!
 
Crazness said:
Now that I have follow this for a while, Im definetely say that im down when the croudfunding is starting!

As for Dondan, I do still wondering regarding the watercool the x99 system, if it could be manage to install a corsair h55 with a 12 mm fan ? seeing people are doing it on the rvz01, I would like to know the possiblity there without any compromise to have an external rad on the table or skipping the IO sheild.

Thanks for taking your time!
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The only way to fit a radiator in the case is the use an ITX GPU, and put the radiator behind the PSU, possibly by mounting it in place of the PSU fan.
 
Curiositie said:
The only way to fit a radiator in the case is the use an ITX GPU, and put the radiator behind the PSU, possibly by mounting it in place of the PSU fan.
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Also, the maximum thickness would be a 25mm radiator with a slim 12.5mm fan.
 
QuantumBraced said:
Would a single 120mm 25mm thick radiator with a 12.5mm fan really perform much better than a Cryorig C7 honestly?
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Probably not, but a 120mm 25mm thick rad with a 12.5mm fan coupled to an R9 Nano would probably preform better than an R9 Nano with a stock cooler.
 
QuantumBraced said:
Would a single 120mm 25mm thick radiator with a 12.5mm fan really perform much better than a Cryorig C7 honestly?
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the purpose of PC water cooling is consolidating and transporting energy to a more efficient dissipation location. people who propose water cooling for this case must be unaware of how small it is. there is nowhere to move heat in this case, other than a heatsink right on top of the part.

DAN A4 is the smallest and best small gaming case BECAUSE there is no room for anything else, including water cooling. need we remind ourselves: http://abload.de/img/picture48sb2.jpg

it would be purely an exercise of curiosity, not practicality, to put any liquid into this coke can-size case
 
Is there a universal aftermarket GPU cooler that is to the A4 as the Accelero Xtreme III/IV is to the M1? The biggest issue I believe is the thickness as many aftermarket GPU coolers are thicker than two slots.
 
Been following this for a while and have just decided to register to have a pressing question answered:

Will this case fit a rear-mounted M.2 drive on the motherboard?
 
Psykie said:
Been following this for a while and have just decided to register to have a pressing question answered:

Will this case fit a rear-mounted M.2 drive on the motherboard?
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Seeing as how a backside mounted M.2 SSD is designed to go in the standard space that is behind all properly mounted motherboards, I would have to say yes…

Now, ample airflow back there is another issue that will have to be discerned as units are actually shipping and being built up…

Keep in mind, there is no cutout/opening under the motherboard like a lot of chassis have. There is also a (usually) quite hot GPU right on the other side of the motherboard mounting area, and the GPU riser cable cuts off some of the upward flow of air in the middle of the motherboard/gpu 'sandwich' as well…
 
Psykie said:
Will this case fit a rear-mounted M.2 drive on the motherboard?
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Yes. People have mentioned concerns about heat (which haven't been proven right or wrong yet), but it will fit, no problems whatsoever.
 
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Mathematician said:
iFreilicht said:
You really like SFF, don't you? :D
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Not really. I don't see it as having a place for what I do on a computer.
PS I thought a forum was a place open to all viewpoints. I think you might be confusing forum with a rally or a promotional conference where all attendees are of one mindset. Nothing very Socratic in that approach.
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Dude, this IS the SFF subforum. Everyone here is interested in making their PCs as small as possible. Why would you come here and complain that SFF is useless to you?

Of course a forum is a place to post and share ideas, but you don't go to a vegeterian forum, tell them that it's stupid to not eat meat and expect to be met with open arms, do you? Speciality forums are places where people with a similar mindset come together. You don't appear to be sharing this mindset, so while you are of course free to share your view on things and post here as much as you want (unless a moderator feels you are disrupting the discussion), don't expect us to agree with you.

Additionally, this is a thread for a nich case, where ideas and feedback are shared and discussions about this case made. We know that this is a niche, you coming here and telling us that you don't belong into that niche is about as valuable as somebody coming in and telling us they like nutella.
 
Mathematician said:
Not really. I don't see it as having a place for what I do on a computer.
PS I thought a forum was a place open to all viewpoints. I think you might be confusing forum with a rally or a promotional conference where all attendees are of one mindset. Nothing very Socratic in that approach.
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We all realised the stuff you think aren't very smart...

This case has a lot of applications for different people, with different needs... Do you know how many persons are interested in buying it? Do you think they are all kids that want to go to lan party's?
 
I can see his point.

I don't really know what the purpose sharing it here was other than to break up our echo chamber for a minute (Which is plenty good reason imo) and disagree with him, but there's no reason he can't post in this thread.

Imo it's less bothersome than someone showing up at the end of development and saying xyz needs to be changed or the case will fail, haha
 
No, his point is valid, but here's my rebuttal -- basically if you're building a MiniTX system and you don't want to OC too much and/or deal with big coolers and lots of fans, and you don't use 3.5" drives -- which in a few years I don't believe anyone will, then why not use this case? The cooling is very efficient -- you don't need case fans as CPU/GPU/PSU all intake directly from the outside, this creates a strongly positive air pressure in the case too, so dust is minimized, the components are easily accessible, and it's 40% smaller than the M1... It's not designed to compete with gaming laptops, it's designed to compete with other ITX cases. If you have an M1 with a minor OC and no 3.5" drives, you're basically wasting almost half of your space. Other ITX cases are even less efficient. The point of this case is to be as small as possible without sacrificing anything essential, and it's by far the smallest case currently on the market (or soon to be) that accomplishes that. That's what makes it so exciting.

And on second thought, it does compete pretty well with gaming laptops which aren't all that portable to begin with. Yes, you need a keyboard and mouse -- which 99% people with gaming laptops have anyway. The body is a little bigger and you do need a monitor, but you get full desktop functionality and pricing, which is a huge advantage. I move a lot and for me it's perfect.
 
Not everyone buys ITX for portability. Personally I like ITX desktops because I hate wasted space either around a desk or in an entertainment center, and I also like sleek minimalist designs. The A4 knocks both of those out of the park for me. Plus obviously with a laptop you also lose upgradeability and you pay a big fat price premium.
 
So how does this crowdfunding work ? is it a fixed amont of the actual prize of the case that we are funding and make sure all the attended have one to their reservation ? or its free choice of how much we can afford to?

Personally I would pay the actual pricing to make sure I have it to my reservation.
 
@Crazness,

Its's looking like you will pay a set price per unit plus shipping to your country - at least, that's what I expect. Shipping will likely be relatively pricey, as the production run will be small and shipping is looking like it will be done in small parcels individually (due to the small production run and Dan being a one-man show).

I believe that the case will be offered in black and silver. I would imagine that the quantity produced for each color will depend on orders and MOQ.
 
@jtd871

Well if it's as you said then it more to my liking. Lets just hope that the crowdfunding is gonna be a hit, so its production line gets more flow.
 
It's kind of amazing when you think about it, that you can slap an M.2 SSD on a motherboard, use Skylake's integrated graphics, and your whole system is an ITX board and a power supply. And still a fully desktop system... that this case would be too big for haha. What has the world come to.
 
QuantumBraced said:
It's kind of amazing when you think about it, that you can slap an M.2 SSD on a motherboard, use Skylake's integrated graphics, and your whole system is an ITX board and a power supply. And still a fully desktop system... that this case would be too big for haha. What has the world come to.
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If you are not using a discrete GPU, then you could get by with a HDPlex PSU as well. Now you are in Mac mini-sized enclosure territory…!
 
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