Custom 92mm Radiator/Pump/Resevoir Combo?

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chemist_slime

[H]ard|Gawd
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Hi everyone,
Posted this in cooling and didn't get any uptake, hopefully the SFF community is a bit more interested in this.

I'm building a custom 5L cube with dual 970 GTX + 12core CPU on an Asrock x99e ITX motherboard and have all the components lined up. Currently, I have ordered some after market 92mm radiators and am not happy with the aesthetics of things and have decided that I would need to design something custom for the cooling. So the question is:

Does anyone know of a company that will design a custom 92mm radiator with a pump and reservoir built-in?

I am looking for something that is similar to what EK just came out with the predator series but in a 92mm format.

http://site.ekwb.com/uploads/images/EK-Predator_240_1_1200(1).jpg
 
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QinX is the only person I've seen so far do a custom rad but it didn't have a pump integrated.
 
Find a local CNC shop - you'd have to make up the CAD for it yourself (or hire someone to draft it for you). The CAD file just feeds right into a CNC machine.
 
Do you have any sketches of what your design is like so we can see what you want done?

Brian_B said:
Find a local CNC shop - you'd have to make up the CAD for it yourself (or hire someone to draft it for you). The CAD file just feeds right into a CNC machine.
Click to expand...

It doesn't quite work like that.
 
Just mentioning for your own reference, my system is running a dual 80mm rad 25mm thick with 2x 3000 rpm noiseblocker fans, they make a lot of noise at speed and at full load (300W furmark+prime95) the CPU reaches 98C, that ofcourse isn't a relastic scenario but you have to test for extremes right ;)

The next version will have dual 92mm rads with 2000rpm slim noctuas with same thermal performance as the smaller 80mm setup.

You will be adding another ~160W and another ~50W for the 12core Xeon almost doubling the maximum thermal load on the radiator.

Unless you have very high RPM fans and some ear muffs you will not be getting either a small system or a quiet system.

Lastly. with regards to where I sourced my radiators I can't disclose because of my employers relationship with them.
 
This is a really interesting idea. @QinX, what do you imagine that max thermal load possible on a dual 92mm rad would be versus that of a single 120mm rad?
 
It isn't necessicarily the maximum thermal load of the radiator that matters.

How a component reacts when liquid cooled also matters a lot.
liquid cooling a GPU has a much higher impact on its temperatures when compared to a CPU.

The main limit in my own setup is the CPU, I can make it thermal throttle when running at maximum system load, it reaches 100C. whilst during that same scenario the GPU runs at "only" 74C. I state only because for a liquid cooled GPU 74C is actually very toasty, just like 100C is extremely toasty of a CPU.

During this test water temperatures hover around 45C and the fans run @ 100%.

Chemist_Slime has a benefit, his CPU does have a 130W TDP, BUT you can split that across a 12-core die.
Linus did a test on a 18-core Xeon and saw much much lower temperatures, that is because the Xeon splits 145W across 18 cores instead of 90W across 4 cores giving him much lower power density and lower CPU temperatures.
https://youtu.be/MjDJNwAANwA?t=14m53s

Going from 300W to 500W max thermal load means you can expect water temperatures about 10C to 15C higher if you end up having a similar setup as me. So those GPUs are going to hit 85C to 90C and the CPU might also hover around that mark.

The 18-Core Xeon hits about 50C under full load, so let us say 25C over ambient.
The 12-Core Xeon I would guess hits about 5C higher because it has the similar TDP but 6-Cores less.
You would be hitting 90C also on the CPU at max load in theory, but I'm only guessing because I can't find hard number for this CPU.

Also at 60C water temperatures material choices are going to be important, some plastics don't like these high temperatures. Also get a sticker saying DO NOT TOUCH, HOT SURFACE!
 
Thanks for the info! Let's say you were just going to cool the GPU, rather than both the CPU and GPU. What temperatures could you expect with a 250-275W GPU like the Fury X or Titan X using dual 92mm rads vs a single 120mm rad?
 
jb1 said:
Thanks for the info! Let's say you were just going to cool the GPU, rather than both the CPU and GPU. What temperatures could you expect with a 250-275W GPU like the Fury X or Titan X using dual 92mm rads vs a single 120mm rad?
Click to expand...

I'd expect similar temperatures.
9.2x18.4=169.3
12x12=144

Although the dual 92mm radiator has a bigger surface area you need 2 smaller fans instead 1 large fan, so they'd cancel each other out. In terms of performance to noise ratio the 120mm should always win because it can achieve the same temperatures with a quieter fan.
 
QinX said:
I'd expect similar temperatures.
9.2x18.4=169.3
12x12=144

Although the dual 92mm radiator has a bigger surface area you need 2 smaller fans instead 1 large fan, so they'd cancel each other out. In terms of performance to noise ratio the 120mm should always win because it can achieve the same temperatures with a quieter fan.
Click to expand...

Cool, this is kindof what I thought. Are rads of these sizes reasonable for a load 250-275W GPU load? What about 350W?
 
jb1 said:
Cool, this is kindof what I thought. Are rads of these sizes reasonable for a load 250-275W GPU load? What about 350W?
Click to expand...

Sure, just look at the Fury X and the 295X2, both have a single 120mm rad, although a thick one. It also depends if you are looking for overclocking headroom, if you are just running it at stock it shouldn't be a real problem.
 
I did that once too in my Shuttle.


I got the Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Xtreme Micro 92 and the Cooler Master IceBerg Prestige on a i7 3820. The pump was very loud. I had Temps around 60s °C. That was fine for me.

Sadly I ended up with a leaking CoolerMaster pump. The 3820 got killed. I just got the money for the CM iceberg back. Nothing for the CPU. "Colleteral Damage" they said.

Looking forward for your project. :)
 
@QinX, awesome, that is definitely good perspective!

DaHans said:
I did that once too in my Shuttle.


I got the Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Xtreme Micro 92 and the Cooler Master IceBerg Prestige on a i7 3820. The pump was very loud. I had Temps around 60s °C. That was fine for me.
Click to expand...

When you say temps around 60, do you mean at idle, or load?
 
Thanks for the response everyone, clearly the SFF community is where I belong. :)

@QinX, I know exactly what you mean with respect to having too much watts in the system and not enough adequate cooling. However, the 2 92mm radiators I have are 43mm in height and not 25mm as in yours, so that should help quite a bit. I also have 2 Noctua 92mm x 25mm fans and not the thin ones so it has a higher CFM as well.

But that was the old plan, onto the new..

What I'm looking to build is a custom COLUMN 92mm radiator. Somehow being able to sandwich 3 x 25mm x 92mm Fans at the top, bottom and middle. The height of the radiator + fans would be 170mm. So doing the math out loud here, the total height of the fins would be 170mm - 3 x 25mm = 95mm. Give or take some space for mounting brackets, somewhere around 85 - 90mm total height for radiator fins. Air would be sucked from below the case, through the radiator and out the top similar to the new mac pro. Anyone out there who are CADDies willing to take on some contract work?
 
A cylindrical column radiator sounds very challenging. You could try to mimic the original Zalman Reserator, I guess, but you wouldn't be able to have the central fan you mention. If you're thinking of something that still uses the traditional tube&fin heat exchanger paradigm, I can't imagine how you'd get that into a cylindrical shape without some fairly complex tube arrangements. I don't have any fabrication experience, but I don't think you're going to have an easy time.

Edit: just had a thought. You can buy finned tube, and maybe you could roll it into a helical coil, maybe like:

fin-heat-exchanger-4.jpg
 
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Kaldskryke said:
A cylindrical column radiator sounds very challenging. You could try to mimic the original Zalman Reserator, I guess, but you wouldn't be able to have the central fan you mention. If you're thinking of something that still uses the traditional tube&fin heat exchanger paradigm, I can't imagine how you'd get that into a cylindrical shape without some fairly complex tube arrangements. I don't have any fabrication experience, but I don't think you're going to have an easy time.

Edit: just had a thought. You can buy finned tube, and maybe you could roll it into a helical coil, maybe like:
Click to expand...

It would be a square column, not cylindrical. But that concept of yours is indeed interesting.
 
chemist_slime said:
Thanks for the response everyone, clearly the SFF community is where I belong. :)

@QinX, I know exactly what you mean with respect to having too much watts in the system and not enough adequate cooling. However, the 2 92mm radiators I have are 43mm in height and not 25mm as in yours, so that should help quite a bit. I also have 2 Noctua 92mm x 25mm fans and not the thin ones so it has a higher CFM as well.

But that was the old plan, onto the new..

What I'm looking to build is a custom COLUMN 92mm radiator. Somehow being able to sandwich 3 x 25mm x 92mm Fans at the top, bottom and middle. The height of the radiator + fans would be 170mm. So doing the math out loud here, the total height of the fins would be 170mm - 3 x 25mm = 95mm. Give or take some space for mounting brackets, somewhere around 85 - 90mm total height for radiator fins. Air would be sucked from below the case, through the radiator and out the top similar to the new mac pro. Anyone out there who are CADDies willing to take on some contract work?
Click to expand...

Yours might be higher, but the fin density is also very important.Mine has 35FPI where most other rads have 15-20 FPI. That is part of the reason I can use a thinner rad and get similar performance.

I've a sandwich cooling solution before with a different project, sandwiched a radiator doesn't give much extra performance. The first radiator gives of most of the heat to the air that passes giving the second radiator a lot worse air to work with.
 
Hi all,
Reviving this thread.

I'm looking for a dual 92mm rad that is 25mm thick. Does something like this exist in the wild? QinX, when you get these made would you be willing to order a couple more for the community?
 
Not 25mm thick, there is a Black Ice M184 that is a bit over 50mm thick. 25 is extremely thin for a radiator, there aren't many that are that slim to begin with, much less smaller surface area ones.
 
I've halted development on H2O-Micro for an indefinite time. A dual 92mm rad that is 25mm thick was on the way with that project . I might still be able to hook you up if you really want it, but for just a 1 or 2 radiators it is going to be expensive over a 200 dollars easy. They would have to assign someone to make these and have a small downtime in production. They don't mind but you pay the price :(
 
QinX said:
I've halted development on H2O-Micro for an indefinite time. A dual 92mm rad that is 25mm thick was on the way with that project . I might still be able to hook you up if you really want it, but for just a 1 or 2 radiators it is going to be expensive over a 200 dollars easy. They would have to assign someone to make these and have a small downtime in production. They don't mind but you pay the price :(
Click to expand...

That's sad to hear that you've halted development on the H2O-Micro. :(

As far as the dual 92mm radiator, I would be willing to pay that price if it's exactly the right thing for the project I'm working on. Basically, I'm trying to cool two GTX 970 or R9 Nano's in a very tight space. Do you think it's feasible to cool either 2 GTX 970's or 2 R9 Nano's off of a single 120mm or 140mm 25 mm thick rad? The only other thing that would fit is a dual 92mm, 25mm thick rad which I think would provide the best cooling of these three options. Or, am I totally crazy.
 
With enough airflow, that should be sufficient. 92x184x25mm is easily more than double the heatsink volume of a single 970 or Nano, and has both a higher fin density and better heat transfer (due to using active water flow rather than conduction or passive heatpipes). A 120x120x25mm heatsink would have nearly the same volume though, and 140x140x25mm even more volume.
 
I ended up going with this radiator for now but might switch later. It's a 92mm x 43mm.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/new-...mm-radiator-black.html#Additional-Information

What I don't like is the thickness of the reservoir, I want something much more compact and also the quality of both of these that I got aren't great. The connectors are slightly tilted which to me means that they're most likely hand made so they aren't perfect. @QinX, I'd also be interested in buying a custom radiator at 200 dollars if I could get the right one, so far I'm still trying to figure out the design of the case.

I'm wondering if 2 x 92mm x 43mm radiator can power 2 970 GTX and a 2676 12 core processor.
 
@jb1 If you are only cooling the GPUs with it that should be fine, adding a CPU will be very hard, it will run hot. the main question is with which fans are you going to pair the radiator?

The dual 92mm rad I can offer isn't 25mm thick it is 28.7mm I don't have smaller options, the dies are already finished.

@chemist_slime
I've also tried the magicool radiators, it is true china crap in my opinion. the fin density is also low if I recall.

You shouldn't have a problem running that 12 core CPU, the per core temperatures you have are much lower.

@EdZ you need to compare surface area vs surface area, not volume. 2 identical radiators can perform vastly different. If I take the standard low FPI radiator and chuck it against a radiator that has double the FPI, with the appropriate fan that high FPI radiator will crush.
 
QinX said:
@EdZ you need to compare surface area vs surface area, not volume. 2 identical radiators can perform vastly different. If I take the standard low FPI radiator and chuck it against a radiator that has double the FPI, with the appropriate fan that high FPI radiator will crush.
Click to expand...
True for rad-to-rad comparisons, but we can generally assume the FPI for a radiator will be higher than that of a heatpipe or vapour chamber heatsink, which is what I was comparing to.
 
QinX said:
@jb1 If you are only cooling the GPUs with it that should be fine, adding a CPU will be very hard, it will run hot. the main question is with which fans are you going to pair the radiator?

The dual 92mm rad I can offer isn't 25mm thick it is 28.7mm I don't have smaller options, the dies are already finished.
Click to expand...

Got it. I realize you actually answered my question earlier in this thread, whoops!

Trying to decide between:

120mm, 26mm thick ekwb radiator (EK-CoolStream SE 120) + 15mm thick silver stone fan (FW121)

OR

92mm, 28.7mm thick custom rad + 2x Noctua A9x14 fans

It sounds like both of these options should be okay with these dual GPU choices, correct?
 
Well I've personally tested the A9x14 fans with a M184 radiator, my slimlines are about 10% worse in performance compared to the M184. and it can handle a 300W load.

Have you thought about how you are going to control your fans? Your motherboard can't control fan speed based on the GPU temperature right?

The EK-CoolStream is a 22FPI radiator compared to the 34FPI on mine, so almost 50% difference in surface area. It might be possible, the silverstone fan has 50% more CFM then 2x A9x14's.
 
QinX said:
Well I've personally tested the A9x14 fans with a M184 radiator, my slimlines are about 10% worse in performance compared to the M184. and it can handle a 300W load.

Have you thought about how you are going to control your fans? Your motherboard can't control fan speed based on the GPU temperature right?

The EK-CoolStream is a 22FPI radiator compared to the 34FPI on mine, so almost 50% difference in surface area. It might be possible, the silverstone fan has 50% more CFM then 2x A9x14's.
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Ah that's too bad that the EK-CoolStream is 22FPI. I'll have to see if I can find a 25mm thick 120mm rad with higher FPI.

I was thinking about the GPU fan header... I might have to cut out a region of the water block so I can get to the fan header.

I also need to start thinking about pumps and reservoirs. Ideally I want to find something smaller than 60x120x30 mm.
 
jb1 said:
Ah that's too bad that the EK-CoolStream is 22FPI. I'll have to see if I can find a 25mm thick 120mm rad with higher FPI.

I was thinking about the GPU fan header... I might have to cut out a region of the water block so I can get to the fan header.

I also need to start thinking about pumps and reservoirs. Ideally I want to find something smaller than 60x120x30 mm.
Click to expand...

If I could make a suggestion, I'd go with a arduino+pcb.
You can use a water temperature sensor and combine it with the arduino PWM and a nice PID controller. Set it to keep the water at a fixed temperature and it'll always be as quite as it can be. If you need help with that hit me up with a DM and I'll get you sorted out.

Since H2O-Micro is on hiatus I want to help as best I can.

For the pump and reservoir, have a look into the Alphacool DC-LT, it can be a noisy pump, but it doesn't get much smaller.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._DC_Pump_Plexi_Top_Reservoir_-_Installed.html
 
QinX said:
If I could make a suggestion, I'd go with a arduino+pcb.
You can use a water temperature sensor and combine it with the arduino PWM and a nice PID controller. Set it to keep the water at a fixed temperature and it'll always be as quite as it can be. If you need help with that hit me up with a DM and I'll get you sorted out.

Since H2O-Micro is on hiatus I want to help as best I can.

For the pump and reservoir, have a look into the Alphacool DC-LT, it can be a noisy pump, but it doesn't get much smaller.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._DC_Pump_Plexi_Top_Reservoir_-_Installed.html
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great idea! I'll send you a PM about it later, definitely interested in trying this.

Right now I'm thinking about this reservoir:

http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p857_Alphacool-Cape-Corp-Coolplex-Pro-10-LT.html
 
jb1 said:
That sounds like a great idea! I'll send you a PM about it later, definitely interested in trying this.

Right now I'm thinking about this reservoir:

http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p857_Alphacool-Cape-Corp-Coolplex-Pro-10-LT.html
Click to expand...

I suggested the DC-LT with plexi top myself but I remember something. Be very carefull with plexiglass or polycarbonate.

Yes you can run a 300W load on a small radiator surface, but in all cases you will be running at very high water temperatures, pay good attention to the parts you want to use because expansion and contraction of the materials is going to apply loads of stress.

Plexiglass and polycarbonate can be made in multiple ways, notably casting and extrusion. One of these is more fragile then the other, with extruded being more fragile, which most tube reservoirs are made of.

http://www.eplastics.com/Extruded-P...vs-Extruded-Plexiglass-Acrylic-tubing-and-rod

I went for Acetal/Delrin in my system because of this and because the looks didn't matter.
 
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