Counter Strike: Global Offensive

[Pac-Man]

Granted its been quite a while, but when I originally switched my game servers over from 1.6 to Source back in 2004 some time, I don't recall the gameplay feeling significantly different...

Maybe this has something to do with the Orange Box update? What happened there anyway?

I haven't compared them side by side since. In fact, I haven't even launched 1.6 since 2004 or so.

I'm not sure how anyone that has played both games could not notice the difference. It's literally night and day. The stuff German Muscle lists that got changed transitioning to the Orange Box apply an order of magnitude more going from 1.6->Source.

Old demos no longer played(this hit the movie making scene hard)

This was also SOP for Valve for CS:S from 2004-~2007 (or whenever CS:S updates came to a screeching halt). They'd frequently make engine updates that would render week-old demos unplayable (though there are now some tools to play back some of the older demos).

Not to mention it took valve 6 months to fix everything they broke and had messed up. Alot of people quit CS and went to other games. Since then its been dying a slow death.

The competitive scene was dead/dying long before the Orange Box update.

 

[TwistedAegis]

That may be right. Man that's like 9 years ago though. how do you remember this shit?

I can barely remember what I ate for lunch yesterday.

LOL I played way too much CS.

Seriously! The only thing that sticks out in my mind about the original (besides how fun it was) was the wonky vehicles they added in the one update and then immediately removed in the following update. They were buggy as hell and hilarious!

I remember being amazed by the test map with the jeep in it though. It was like, holy shit, this is the future of gaming!

The big tank on cs_siege was the best! Nothing funnier than all the people riding in the back getting crushed to death randomly.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Seriously! The only thing that sticks out in my mind about the original (besides how fun it was) was the wonky vehicles they added in the one update and then immediately removed in the following update. They were buggy as hell and hilarious!

I remember being amazed by the test map with the jeep in it though. It was like, holy shit, this is the future of gaming!

That maps was called Jeepathon or something, right?

hehe..

All I remember was begging the admins to change the map away from cs_siege cause some idiot would invariably hop in the APC and run over the entire CT team. (this was before I ran the servers, I started doing that at 1.0 or 1.1 some time)

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I just remembered cs_backalley....


I wonder if anyone made a port of this map for Source.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Ah now I remember, Jeepathon2k. And backalley was one of my favorite maps as well.

 

[drako]

That maps was called Jeepathon or something, right?

Yep, thats it! And I quickly found an example of the fun those maps were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5pSpBChau0

This was another one of my favorites from the original. I never could figure out why it wasn't ported to Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wigQquLnD0s

Looking through some lists of old maps, I forgot how much I hated some of the beta maps. In particular, whenever as_tundra would come up, I'd immediately quit the server.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yep, thats it! And I quickly found an example of the fun those maps were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5pSpBChau0

This was another one of my favorites from the original. I never could figure out why it wasn't ported to Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wigQquLnD0s

Looking through some lists of old maps, I forgot how much I hated some of the beta maps. In particular, whenever as_tundra would come up, I'd immediately quit the server.

Tundra wasn't my favorite map by any means, but I remember having some fun on it.

But yes, I do agree. There was much more varying quality in maps then than there is now. The community model was great to get CS started, but it did lend itself to some inconsistent quality.

as much as i feel the community was better during the beta days, some of the late 1.x maps remain my all time favorites. de_dust2 (although I've played it to death), de_inferno (and I miss the balcony in the modern version), de_survivor, cs_backalley (too bad there's no good source port of this one).

There are still some earlier maps that are among my favorites as well though. de-train is up there, as is de_nuke. I remember having fun on cs_arabstreets but for some reason that video is just not looking familiar... memory must be failing me again.

 

[simonizor]

As long as it's on the source engine and uses hitboxes, it's probably going to fail with the competitive crowd. The source engine has pretty crappy net code (in CS:S at least), and the hitboxes just add to the problem. Hitboxes just aren't an accurate depiction of where the actual model is; add lag to the equation and you have a hitbox that's trailing behind where the actual model is.

Unless they figure out some way to fix this, the competitive crowd will stay with 1.6.

Don't get me wrong; I love CS:S, but I'm not really a competitive player.

 

[German Muscle]

When did this happen, German? Just curious, been out of it.

June 24 2010

 

[Godmachine]

As long as it's on the source engine and uses hitboxes, it's probably going to fail with the competitive crowd. The source engine has pretty crappy net code (in CS:S at least), and the hitboxes just add to the problem. Hitboxes just aren't an accurate depiction of where the actual model is; add lag to the equation and you have a hitbox that's trailing behind where the actual model is.

Unless they figure out some way to fix this, the competitive crowd will stay with 1.6.

Don't get me wrong; I love CS:S, but I'm not really a competitive player.

This is what I've been hearing from my CS buddies for years. Updated engine and dropping hit boxes. I think Valve has slowly over time worked on the netcode and its actually not as bad as it use to be but the game just needs an overhaul and it sounds like that's what they are attempting.

If they don't fucking throw hats into the game then I'll at least try it out.

 

[cthulhuiscool]

still no word on hl3...

 

[Skizzy]

Fuck yeah.

 

[TheBlueChanell]

I'm concerned that it's going to be on 360 and PS3 but I feel Valve will take the same approach to this as they did TF2 for 360. Release, make money off of it and make the PC version the poster child, which I'm okay with.

I think the "Matchmaking" system would be more for teams. I was reading that there would be "Casual" and "Competitive" modes, the latter being 5v5. It will probably work similar to LoL and DOTA2's setup.

 

[Jaerb4]

CSS was #1 on that list forever. When Valve updated the game to orange box it really hurt the game termendously. Leagues shut down, The competition side of it is very poor right now.

The Source numbers used to include bots. I'm not sure if they do anymore, but I can't recall a time when CSS was beating CS 1.6. Certainly not before a year or two ago.

If Valve flew competitive gamers in from around the globe, they obviously have our interests in hand... who else has ever done this?

They flew in Source players only. The Source scene has always been minuscule compared to 1.6, even after nearly killing it with CGS. Torbull's review seems to indicate that it's not like either game, but I don't exactly trust Valve's judgement on how a competitive game should feel.

 

[SUPERGT]

I still play 1.6 regularly with buddies. The majority of the 1.6 community has gone non-steam, and its almost as alive and competitive as it was 5-10 years ago. Never did like Source, other than for fun style maps and zombie mod due to the better physics. The only way this game will be great is if they bring back the sharp learning curve as 1.6 had; making Source easier to sell more copies and eliminate discouragement of new players was its largest pitfall.

 

[FRAGizm]

so their coming out with another with fucked up hitboxes. Good....PASS!

Bring BF3. closed thread.

 

[Ryan711]

Rumor is that it's console focused and PC is just a bonus. No recoil, simplified maps, ugh. They'd better release a proper CS2 with HL3

 

[ZaC851]

I have never had a single problem with hitboxes/netcode in my 10+ years and many thousands of hours with cs and cs:s.
Very much looking forward to this release.

 

[socK]

I have never had a single problem with hitboxes/netcode in my 10+ years and many thousands of hours with cs and cs:s.
Very much looking forward to this release.

yup, this was almost always a shitty server. thankfully they provided the tools to let you know exactly what the fuck was going on... it's called net_graph. source probably has some of the best netcode in existence right now.

 

[Crash250f]

There was a rumor a week or so ago that they invited a buncha pro CS players to their headquarters. I don't see why they would bother if it was meant for consoles. They would probably have to weigh the cost of fortifying their facilities to deal with the massive riot of angry ex-CS players that would storm the place with torches and pitchforks.

But seriously, if they dumb down the game significantly for the PC, I think I'll be done with the multiplayer FPS genre, which has been my favorite outside of the rare times that pvp mmo's live up to their potential.

 

[quackduck]

Counter-Strike has the best hit boxes I've ever seen in an FPS. I don't know what you're talking about. Either the server or your connection must be out of whack. Accurate hit boxes are the reason CS is one of the top "e-sport" games.

 

[Ryan711]

There was a rumor a week or so ago that they invited a buncha pro CS players to their headquarters. I don't see why they would bother if it was meant for consoles. They would probably have to weigh the cost of fortifying their facilities to deal with the massive riot of angry ex-CS players that would storm the place with torches and pitchforks.

But seriously, if they dumb down the game significantly for the PC, I think I'll be done with the multiplayer FPS genre, which has been my favorite outside of the rare times that pvp mmo's live up to their potential.

Better than nobody I suppose. I'm not aware of any experts on CS: Xbox. Also, they were explicitly told that this was not a sequel to CS:S nor was it CS2. So take that for what it's worth, hopefully they have something else in the works.

 

[Valshistixol]

Counter-Strike has the best hit boxes I've ever seen in an FPS. I don't know what you're talking about. Either the server or your connection must be out of whack. Accurate hit boxes are the reason CS is one of the top "e-sport" games.

LOL NO.

 

[WorldExclusive]

Rumor is that it's console focused and PC is just a bonus. No recoil, simplified maps, ugh. They'd better release a proper CS2 with HL3

It's expected to be console focused. I don't expect Valve to release any PC focused games for a while, that includes HL3.
Take money from PC gamers, makes console focused games.

 

[FRAGizm]

Counter-Strike has the best hit boxes I've ever seen in an FPS. I don't know what you're talking about. Either the server or your connection must be out of whack. Accurate hit boxes are the reason CS is one of the top "e-sport" games.

Made my day. haha Thanks.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

Hopefully it is more like 1.6 and less like source.

 

[Godmachine]

Counter-Strike has the best hit boxes I've ever seen in an FPS. I don't know what you're talking about. Either the server or your connection must be out of whack. Accurate hit boxes are the reason CS is one of the top "e-sport" games.

You are seriously in the minority there. Take any of the top CS players and they will tell you there have been issues with hit boxes for just about forever now and that latency has always been a concern. Just because its a popular e-sport game doesn't mean its somehow the "best" it could be.

 

[drako]

It's expected to be console focused. I don't expect Valve to release any PC focused games for a while, that includes HL3.
Take money from PC gamers, makes console focused games.

Brilliant post... especially in light of the fact that the very next game Valve is releasing is only for PC and Mac.

 

[Funky.fresh]

oh fuck yeah

 

[Ryan711]

It seems kind of like this is more of a competitive COD style game than a CS game, which is fine, but I wish they would have named it something else.

 

[WorldExclusive]

Brilliant post... especially in light of the fact that the very next game Valve is releasing is only for PC and Mac.

What game is that? Has it been officially announced?
Dota3 perhaps? How many years has it been since Valve released a major dedicated PC title?

 

[Crash250f]

Yes, he's almost definitely referring to DoTA2.

Edit: Which btw, aside from a full out RTS like SC2, I think this mini genre is the only place you'll find new highly competitive games coming out these days (ignoring whether or not CS:GO could be competitive).

 

[Pac-Man]

Yes, he's almost definitely referring to DoTA2.

Edit: Which btw, aside from a full out RTS like SC2, I think this mini genre is the only place you'll find new highly competitive games coming out these days (ignoring whether or not CS:GO could be competitive).

And DoTA2 will debut this coming week at Gamescom in a million dollar tourney. The only reason that game might be competitive is that IceFrog is at the helm.

I have little to no faith in Valve creating a competitive MP FPS (which is the goal of CS:GO) given their history with the competitive scene, though inviting out pro CS:S players is a step in the right direction.

 

[German Muscle]

As long as it's on the source engine and uses hitboxes, it's probably going to fail with the competitive crowd. The source engine has pretty crappy net code (in CS:S at least), and the hitboxes just add to the problem. Hitboxes just aren't an accurate depiction of where the actual model is; add lag to the equation and you have a hitbox that's trailing behind where the actual model is.

Unless they figure out some way to fix this, the competitive crowd will stay with 1.6.

Don't get me wrong; I love CS:S, but I'm not really a competitive player.

Thats weird. CS has always used hitboxes and right before the update. In CSS it was at its peak in competition. If you think that is the weakest point in the game your ignorant.
The competition crowd is liking it so far...ALOT.

so their coming out with another with fucked up hitboxes. Good....PASS!

Bring BF3. closed thread.

Nice logic when thats not even been said.

There was a rumor a week or so ago that they invited a buncha pro CS players to their headquarters. I don't see why they would bother if it was meant for consoles. They would probably have to weigh the cost of fortifying their facilities to deal with the massive riot of angry ex-CS players that would storm the place with torches and pitchforks.

But seriously, if they dumb down the game significantly for the PC, I think I'll be done with the multiplayer FPS genre, which has been my favorite outside of the rare times that pvp mmo's live up to their potential.

They invited several top CSS players from around the world to come test it. Read that Article on ESEA. People are complaining that no CS1.6 players were invited. Most your true professionals in CSS played 1.6 They know the game just as well as 1.6 only players but can bring more valuable to Valves attention being they played both 1.6 and Source. They seem to have put them on the right track.

It seems kind of like this is more of a competitive COD style game than a CS game, which is fine, but I wish they would have named it something else.

Where did you see anything that makes this out to be a COD style game?

Valve said this isnt CS2 and its not a replacement for Source or 1.6. They said CZ wasnt a replacement for 1.6, Source wasnt a replacement for 1.6 or CZ as well. If your counting on a CS2 to come out within 4-6 years after CS:GO it wont happen.

 

[Hornet]

They invited several top CSS players from around the world to come test it. Read that Article on ESEA. People are complaining that no CS1.6 players were invited. Most your true professionals in CSS played 1.6 They know the game just as well as 1.6 only players but can bring more valuable to Valves attention being they played both 1.6 and Source. They seem to have put them on the right track.

Thanks for sharing. That's good news to me. Shows that they are serious about making another solid CS rather than turning it into a console cash cow.

 

[Jaerb4]

Most your true professionals in CSS played 1.6 They know the game just as well as 1.6 only players but can bring more valuable to Valves attention being they played both 1.6 and Source.

Just because they played CS1.6 doesn't mean they were particularly good at it, and most of the 1.6 pros who switched for CGS actually hated playing Source, they just did it for the money. People want them to invite current 1.6 pros because most people think they have a better feel of what a decent competitive FPS should be than people who enjoy the feel of Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE

 

[mogar]

About god damned time. That is all.

 

[German Muscle]

Just because they played CS1.6 doesn't mean they were particularly good at it, and most of the 1.6 pros who switched for CGS actually hated playing Source, they just did it for the money. People want them to invite current 1.6 pros because most people think they have a better feel of what a decent competitive FPS should be than people who enjoy the feel of Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE

Craig "Torbull" Levine
E-Sports Entertainment - Co-Founder
August, 2003 - Current
http://www.ESEA.net

ESS - Co-Founder
December, 2006 - Current
http://www.ESSagency.com

Team 3D - Founder & Manager
April, 2002 - June, 2007
http://www.team3d.com

The 1.6 Players wanted 1.6 players to go cause they want this game to be like 1.6. Just because you play 1.6 doesnt make it a superior game. If you want 1.6 then keep playing it.
I want a Counter Strike game thats not 1.6 or Source but still has that Counter Strike feel.

CGS dying didnt kill Source either. CGS died because of very poor management.

 

[German Muscle]

Just because they played CS1.6 doesn't mean they were particularly good at it, and most of the 1.6 pros who switched for CGS actually hated playing Source, they just did it for the money. People want them to invite current 1.6 pros because most people think they have a better feel of what a decent competitive FPS should be than people who enjoy the feel of Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE

So basically this person should have not went because it would have been more important that a 1.6 Pro went?
Craig "Torbull" Levine
E-Sports Entertainment - Co-Founder
August, 2003 - Current
http://www.ESEA.net

ESS - Co-Founder
December, 2006 - Current
http://www.ESSagency.com

Team 3D - Founder & Manager
April, 2002 - June, 2007
http://www.team3d.com

The 1.6 Players wanted 1.6 players to go cause they want this game to be like 1.6. Just because you play 1.6 doesnt make it a superior game. If you want 1.6 then keep playing it.
I want a Counter Strike game thats not 1.6 or Source but still has that Counter Strike feel.

CGS dying didnt kill Source either. CGS died because of very poor management.

 

[German Muscle]

Just because they played CS1.6 doesn't mean they were particularly good at it, and most of the 1.6 pros who switched for CGS actually hated playing Source, they just did it for the money. People want them to invite current 1.6 pros because most people think they have a better feel of what a decent competitive FPS should be than people who enjoy the feel of Source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE

So basically this person should have not went because it would have been more important that a 1.6 Pro went?

Craig "Torbull" Levine
E-Sports Entertainment - Co-Founder
August, 2003 - Current
http://www.ESEA.net

ESS - Co-Founder
December, 2006 - Current
http://www.ESSagency.com

Team 3D - Founder & Manager
April, 2002 - June, 2007
http://www.team3d.com

The 1.6 Players wanted 1.6 players to go cause they want this game to be like 1.6. Just because you play 1.6 doesnt make it a superior game. If you want 1.6 then keep playing it.
I want a Counter Strike game thats not 1.6 or Source but still has that Counter Strike feel.

CGS dying didnt kill Source either. CGS died because of very poor management.