Could use advice before going into next build: Intel or AMD?

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RevOne

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Hi everyone :)

I'm contemplating what my next build will consist of and I'm at a loss at to whether or not I should make the switch to Intel (finally). I'm currently running a Phenom II X4 820 2.8GHz in my primary system.

The plan is to probably set aside about $200 towards my next CPU for the next build and I'm thinking of going with a second-hand i5 2500k (since those seem to be going for under the $200 mark). The main purpose of the computer will be gaming on a single monitor @ a max of 1080p (60Hz); but it will also see general use (web browsing, Youtube, and such). I enjoy playing Battlefield 3 the most out of all the PC games I own :)

Also thinking I may just go with a Bulldozer: either the FX-6100 since my current mATX motherboard can take up to any 95W AM3+ processor, and I would be able to use it in the meantime until I get everything else together.... or spring for a 140W TDP AM3+ ATX board when the time comes and get an 8120 or 8150 (or just wait to see what Piledriver has to offer).

Not really an overclocker; but really only because I don't have the experience doing it. I wouldn't rule it out completely provided I can get a board known for handling it (unlike my current board).

My questions:
Would the 2500k yield me a noticeable, real-world increase in performance over my current Phenom II? Substantial enough to warrant the price tag?

Going against the flagship Bulldozers, would the 2500k fair better (not according to synthetic benchmarks, but in real-world gaming performance clock-for-clock)? Would it be the recommended route if I factor in the possibility of maybe being able to move onto Ivy Bridge later?

Motherboard would need to feature USB 3.0, SATA 6GB/s, GB LAN, SLI or Crossfire... for around $150 +/-. If I'm not mistaken, I read somewhere that only Intel boards (z77?) can do pci-e 3.0 at the moment; and I'm crossing my fingers for an HD7850 to be in my budget. If not, it'll likely be the 6950 2GB or 560ti.

Any thoughts?

Thanks so much in advance to anyone that can offer any insight. :)
 
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Thats a big wall of text.

Short answers: Bulldozer sucks. Sorry, I really like AMD, but you will suffer seriously in gaming if you buy their CPUs this round. Sandy/Ivy bridge are excellent for gaming, and you should be able to get a 2500K for less than $200. However, If you aren't big into overclocking, just stick with a processor like this one for only $210.

Is it worth the upgrade? The real answer to that question is another question: do you feel held back, especially in games? If you play games like GTA IV, Civ V or the Total War series, then upgrading the processor will make a real difference to you. The newer proc is unquestionably faster than your older one, but depending on how you use it it is *possible* you wouldn't notice too much.

Regarding Motherboards, its not hard to get all those features on a motherboard for ~$120. How important is micro-ATX to you? or is ATX fine?

Regarding PCIe 3.0, newer cards will happily run on 2.0 fine, even if they support 3.0. And there isn't any difference between 2.0 and 3.0 until you run an SLI/CrossFire setup (and really you won't notice until you are at 3 cards). So don't worry about that.
 
Excellent advice, here Sn0_Man :) Thank you for your insight.

Nice find on the 3550 :) Will definitely add that into the list of possibilities. As far as the direct correlation of CPU to gaming performance, the only way I felt held back was when I overclocked the Phenom II I currently have. I don't have a stellar graphics card atm (HD4890); but I did notice significant gains when I tried OC'ing the processor from 2.8GHz to 3.5GHz once. It was like the GPU just seemed to come to life after that (not sure if there was a bottleneck going on there at stock). I was warned that my board wasn't recommended for overclocking (ASUS M5A78L-M LX), so I've set it back to stock after trying my hand at OC'ing that one time. This was in games like Battlefield 3, Arkham City, and Deus Ex: HR. This was without OC'ing the graphics card at all. While I'll be running a single card at first, basically, I guess I'd like something that will have the "stones" to run with two cards once I do go the SLI/Crossfire route down the road.

ATX is actually what I'd aim for. Only really need a maximum two card setup. I see some mATX Intel boards have multi-card configurations as well, but if I can, I'd prefer an ATX sized board.
 
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Here are my current system specs if it helps for comparison purposes:

Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 820 95W AM3 C2 (HDX820WFK4FGI)
Motherboard: ASUS M5A78L-M LX AM3+ AMD 760G Micro ATX Motherboard
Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper TX3
Memory: Corsair Dominator 8GB (2 x 4GB) PC3-10666 1333mHz1.6v Dual Channel DDR3 (CMP8GX3M2B1333C9)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD4890 XT 875M 1GB DDR5 PCI-E HD-489A-ZDHD (RMA'd at the moment)
Hard Disk: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
Optical Drive: Sony Optiarc 24X DVD Burner SATA Model AD-7280S-0B - OEM
CRT/LCD Model: 22" Insignia NS-L22Q-10A 720p LCD HDTV (Supports up to 1080p @ 60Hz output)
Case: Thermaltake VM54521N2U V2 ATX Mid Tower Case
PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power 80+ Certified
Software: Windows 7 Professional SP1 x64

I won't be re-using anything but the OS and the monitor for the next build. I'll be getting an 120GB - 256 GB SSD for the OS, and probably another backup 1TB HDD for storage.
 
Thanks for the recommendation :)

In that case, I guess I'll see how well my finances work out towards the other gear I've mentioned thus far. I was thinking that I might just sell the entire thing locally on Craigslist to help out with getting some of the new toys, and just "slum it out" on my backup AM2+ system in the meanwhile until the new build was done. I have to wait to see what XFX sends me back from RMA as far as the GPU is concerned. They might send me back my old HD4890 fixed, a different refurbed 4890, or something else entirely (maybe a 5830 or 6790).

I was thinking of getting a higher watt PSU just to be safe for SLI/Crossfire in the off chance I can spring for two GPU's in the long run that would benefit from such power (thinking a bump to 750 - 800w at least might be the sweet spot).. Does this sound like a good move?

By the way, can't thank you enough for all the help thus far :)

I'm also liking the sound of the i5-3570K ($15 off @ the Egg until July 4th: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504). Slightly over my budget, but if I get good enough deals on some of the other stuff, I should be able to shave off $15 from saving on some of the other items.
 
Not really sure that some of these parts are mainstays, but this would be a rough idea of what I might have in mind: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/b218

Evaluations or suggestions? For instance, the mobo has pretty much everything I'm looking for in terms of features, but I do not know that it's known to be good/decent for OC'ing (phase?); and the second PCI-e x16 slot is 4x (I'd prefer at minimum x8 so long as I can find one in the same price range. Probably have to hit the second-hand market though, I'm assuming).

Would hope I could sqeeze this in, somehow: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...OTC-FroogleNEW-_-Video+Cards-_-XFX-_-14150609
 
That mobo would only get you a light OC. Which is kind of a waste of such a good CPU. If you're serious about overclocking, I'd start off with this:
$150 - MSI Z77A-G45 Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard

The case isn't a good choice on acount of how cramped it is and its limited to no cable management features. I recommend this case instead:
$80 - Corsair Carbide Series 300R ATX Case

HDD wise, I recommend this faster drive instead:
$110 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

RAM wise, I'd go with this G.Skill instead due to its more solid track record:
$49 - G.Skill Sniper F3-12800CL9D-8GBSR 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

GPU wise, a HD 7850 is easily within your budget:
$250 - PowerColor AX7850 2GBD5-2DH Radeon HD 7850 GHz Edition 2GB PCI-E Video Card

PSU wise, if you're using HD 7850 Crossfire, you should be fine with your current PSU. If you're going for HD 6950 CF, then yes go for a new PSU. The new generation of GPUs are more power efficient than their old brothers.
 
I really like that motherboard and case. Very nice suggestions Danny Bui :)

Can get up to $20 off on that case right now too ($10 instant, $10 MIR).

The price for the motherboard is spot on within my budget and has everything I'd hope for.

Originally, I selected the XFX model of the 7850 because they used to offer lifetime warranties, but since they've done away with that with the 7xxx series, Powercolor is as good as any to me. :D Though I do like the idea of the Double D cooler, whether or not it performs well enough to warrant the bump in the price tag is another matter. Wait... Nevermind, the Newegg site still shows it's eligible for the Lifetime Warranty. Guess it'd be worth it to wait and see if/when this one goes on sale or they offer a rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150609

Everything else looks perfect, as well.

The only thing about my current power supply is that it only has one 6-pin and one 6+2 pin PCI Express power connector. I have a couple of molex to 6 pin adapters laying around, but I think I'd rather go with a unit that's truly equipped to handle SLI/Crossfire (certified).

Thanks Danny Bui :) I think I've set my heart on that mobo and case for sure. Everything else is a matter of budget.
 
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Alright - so here's where I'm at so far:

Case: Corsair Carbide Series 300R

Motherboard: MSI Z77A-G45

RAM: G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

PSU: OCZ Fatal1ty 750W Modular Gaming

... or...

PSU & RAM COMBO: CORSAIR HX750 + CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

For the first set with OCZ PSU & G.SKILL RAM, with promo codes & instant rebates applied: $354.87 shipped ($319.87 after MIR)

With the Corsair PSU?RAM Combo instead, I'm looking at (w/ promo codes, instant savings, etc.): $400.77 shipped ($380.77 after MIR)

The first set, leaves me with $200+ in cash left (not counting MIR's) and I'd still need a CPU and graphics card. If it comes down to it, I have a spare 500GB 7200RPM Sata II HDD already (as well as a spare Sata DVD-RW DL drive). I'd have no trouble running the stock cooler on the CPU until I figure out what I want to do in that department. The SSD can wait. If I can sell my current Phenom II system for - who knows what it'd be worth - I could maybe add that to the $200 balance and perhaps get at least some of the remaining items.

Does this sound good so far to anyone else?
 
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Doesn't look good to me: Again, you don't need a new PSU unless you're planning on HD 6950 2GB CF. We're not recommending HD 6950 2GB CF. So you don't need a new PSU. Considering your limited budget, the fact that you can always replace the PSU at a later date, and the fact that it's easier to replace a PSU than it is a CPU, don't buy a new PSU and use the extra cash for the CPU.

I'd avoid that OCZ PSU on account of OCZ's customer support.
 
Gotcha :)

Yeah, that makes total sense the way you put it. Thank you. Only things I was concerned about was being able to sell a complete system (the Phenom II build), but I could always part out if I find I really need the extra cash as a buffer. The other thing was the ability to have enough power cables for CF, but taking from what you said, it's not like I'm starting out w/ CF. Just need something that can handle a single card well enough, until I am ready to add another. Then I'll get a better PSU.

I actually have an OCZ ModXStream 500W in the backup system and it's been good to me so far, but then again, I've never had to count on or call up their tech support team; so no experience with that.

Thinking wisely there, Danny Bui :) Really appreciate it!

I think if I follow that advice, I might be able to work in a 3570k. They're practically the same price right now as the 3550 and 2500k over at the 'Egg. Depends on if I decide to go with a pre-owned 2500k to save some cash overall and worry about upgrades later.
 
I hear the Intels are real good as well. I use the FX and it runs what I need but better to spend hard earned money on a price to performance ratio.
 
Well, as much as I was wanting to and ready to do this... looks like this build is "dead in the water" until further notice due to some unforseen financial circumstances (i.e. bills lol).

Now I'll probably just dedicate a small amount of money toward trying to make what I have already just a little bit better if I can, in the meantime to hold me off.

So, XFX is sending me back an HD 6850 in place of my dead HD 4890 (which I'm actually pretty happy about). I have to wait until it arrives to see, but I'm hoping it's the model that only takes a single 6-pin pci-e power connector. I was thinking that I just may buy another used HD 6850, and Crossfire them. The only option I have to do so, is an Asus M5A97 motherboard I picked up for cheap; and it has two pci-e x16 slots... but at x16 & x4.

My questions involve this:

1) With the slots at x16/x4, is it really worth it when it comes to Crossfiring 6850's? Or should I just sell the RMA return, and maybe put that money along with what I'd spend on another 6850 towards an HD 7850?

I've done a lot digging to see how having a x16 and x4 configuration works, and people seem to say that there's not that much of a performance loss until you hit the really high resolutions (I'm gaming at 1080p/60Hz at the most with my setup).. I'm hoping performance would put me close to a single 6950, like benchmarks show.

2) Would the Phenom II X4 820 at stock speed (2.8 GHz) bottleneck those particular cards in Crossfire?

3) If so, at what frequency would it need to run at (OC'ed) in order to alleviate the problem? Is the M5A97 even considered any good at (mild) overclocking (say to about 3.2GHz)?

4) Is my power supply enough for Crossfire 6850's? (so far, what I've read points to the answer being yes, but I'd still like some opinions)
 
It's never worth CFing two low-end cards, so just keep the one they are sending you and upgrade the GPU when you have the funds. I don't recommend your buys though. I'd wait until the funds are in good health again.
 
Crossfire / SLI has always been about high end cards. Low end cards, you've introducing a variety of potential issues (and likely a configuration that didn't get tested by AMD / Nvidia near as much) for little to no real gain. Sell the 6850 when it comes time to upgrade, stick with a single card for now.

If you sold the 6850 and picked up a used 6950 2GB you wouldn't be out much more (if any more) money than buying a second 6850 anyway. Makes no sense to go 6850 crossfire.
 
Good advice folks :)

I'll stick with the single 6850 for now. Better to wait to upgrade the GPU when I'm ready to build a system around a nice enough card that can take advantage of the performance boost. Better yet.... I can just continue saving up money for now until it looks like I'm in good enough standing to proceed with a major overhaul.

Just stinks that Bulldozer turned out to be such a disappointment. I'm not holding high expectations for Piledriver either if it's only supposed to yield a 10% or so increase over the current Zambezi's. I only spent around $250 shipped for my entire current setup (minus the monitor, keyboard, and mouse, which I already had) and was hoping all I'd need to worry about down the line would be adding a Bulldozer CPU and a graphics card upgrade to have a decent little system for gaming.

I'm definitely switching to Intel for the next build, but it's gonna take a considerably higher amount of cash to do it (right) from the ground up.

Thanks so much for your help everyone! :)
 
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