shabazkilla
Lurker
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- Jan 4, 2004
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Quick update - CDW finally was able to get a CK13601 expander for me. It shipped out today.
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Chenbro SAS Expanders
- Thread starter shabazkilla
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GMcDonnell
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2009
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- 91
UPS just delivered these for me. This should be fun. $130 shipped for both!
If you don't mind my asking, where did you end up ordering the cards from?
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kharan5876
Limp Gawd
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- Oct 3, 2007
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- 141
The supermicro E1 case is very nice. I used to have one. The only problem is it's extremely loud, and the loudness comes from the custom hotswappable power supplies so theres nothing you can do about it.
If noise is not a concern I would definatly recommend the supermicro case as its pretty solid.
If noise is not a concern I would definatly recommend the supermicro case as its pretty solid.
Kettchxxii
Gawd
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cartman123
n00b
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- Sep 21, 2008
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So the obvious (and probably noob) question:
Can I buy a cheap one port pci-e sas controller and connect it with this sas expander and then have 24 sata ports available?
Can I buy a cheap one port pci-e sas controller and connect it with this sas expander and then have 24 sata ports available?
Yes. Make sure you get something on the HCL for the Chenbro card though.
cartman123
n00b
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- Sep 21, 2008
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- 46
nice....So that looks to be the cheapest way to have 24 sata ports at reasonable speeds. does this expander support 6Gb sas?
Is it possible to move existing arrays from a full RAID card to the Chenbro expander ports, and still maintain the working array?
For example:
I am using the RocketRAID 4320 (which has 2 miniSAS ports) with two RAID-5 arrays of 4 drives each. One array (ARRAY 1) is attached to PORT 1 and the other array (ARRAY 2) is attached to PORT 2 of the RocketRAID 4320.
After a while using the arrays I run out of space, and drives become more affordable, so I get more drives and buy a Chenbro expander. I would like to remove ARRAY 2 from PORT 2 of the RR4320, and in its place put the Chenbro SAS expander. I then want to plug ARRAY 2 into one of the SAS expander ports.
If I do this, will both ARRAY 1 and ARRAY 2 still be valid arrays, with all data still intact? Or will this break ARRAY 2 because it is no longer directly attached to PORT 2 of the RocketRAID 4320 where it used to be?
It seems to me that the RR4320 may be confused because the drives are now at different 'indexes/channels/ports' from where they were originally. Similar to if you were to turn off the server, rearrange the drive inputs, and turn it back on.
Has anyone ever tried this?
Thanks!
Unwire.
For example:
I am using the RocketRAID 4320 (which has 2 miniSAS ports) with two RAID-5 arrays of 4 drives each. One array (ARRAY 1) is attached to PORT 1 and the other array (ARRAY 2) is attached to PORT 2 of the RocketRAID 4320.
After a while using the arrays I run out of space, and drives become more affordable, so I get more drives and buy a Chenbro expander. I would like to remove ARRAY 2 from PORT 2 of the RR4320, and in its place put the Chenbro SAS expander. I then want to plug ARRAY 2 into one of the SAS expander ports.
If I do this, will both ARRAY 1 and ARRAY 2 still be valid arrays, with all data still intact? Or will this break ARRAY 2 because it is no longer directly attached to PORT 2 of the RocketRAID 4320 where it used to be?
It seems to me that the RR4320 may be confused because the drives are now at different 'indexes/channels/ports' from where they were originally. Similar to if you were to turn off the server, rearrange the drive inputs, and turn it back on.
Has anyone ever tried this?
Thanks!
Unwire.
Unfortunately no HighPoint RAID cards are on the HCL for the Chenbro SAS expander, so I wouldn't run one with it. My Areca isn't too picky about what order the drives are plugged in however, so it might not be an issue for you since the cards are rather similar.
Actually, page 15 in Version B0 of the User Manual for the Chenbro 12803 (http://usa.chenbro.com/download.php...5UTBzeE1qZ3dNeUIyWlhJZ1FqQmZNakF3T1RBNU1ERT1D - updated 9/1/09) lists both the RocketRAID 4320 and 4321 as compatible SAS RAID cards, for firmware version AA11; hardware version B0, with 48 maximum verified drives.
I also emailed Highpoint and asked them about compatibility (figured I'd go both ways), and they said the 4320 was compatible with SAS Expanders.
I hope they're right! My 4320 is arriving tomorrow!
Unwire.
I also emailed Highpoint and asked them about compatibility (figured I'd go both ways), and they said the 4320 was compatible with SAS Expanders.
I hope they're right! My 4320 is arriving tomorrow!
Unwire.
Just received a response from Highpoint regarding the reorganization of an existing RAID array:
This is great news! This means I can start off with maxing out my RAID controller (8 drives), and wait until this whole Chenbro fiasco is sorted out before adding the expander to the mix.
..Hopefully the updated models Chenbro is coming out with dont cost twice as much.
Unwire.
Code:
Hello,
This should not harm the arrays - the RAID configuration is written to each
of the disks. So long as all of the drives are recognized, the array will
remain intact.
Regards,
Customer Support DepartmentThis is great news! This means I can start off with maxing out my RAID controller (8 drives), and wait until this whole Chenbro fiasco is sorted out before adding the expander to the mix.
..Hopefully the updated models Chenbro is coming out with dont cost twice as much.
Unwire.
Kettchxxii
Gawd
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- Jun 13, 2007
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- 651
What are the chances that one of these expanders would work with an ARC-1300ix-16. I am dying to use that in my norco, and be able to add another 20 drives with a second norco down the road with the expander.
Can anyone say WHS cluster?
Can anyone say WHS cluster?
Can anyone who just got their cards this week, find out which LSI chip is on the card, via looking at it or using a lsi cli tool?
Is it the lsi sasx36 / sasx28, or is it the lsi sas2x36 / sas2x28?
Due to 2nd language issues, it is difficult to get support/answers from the people at chenbro. The answers are always "yes, yes, ok, yes, yes.. goodbye".
In early June, they told me:
A new version of the sas expanders would be coming out in 2 - 12 weeks. (accurate)
They wanted to sell off all of the v1 expanders, before releasing v2.
The new version was in production. (accurate)
The new version would support sas-2 and use the latest LSI sas-2 expander chips. (??)
It would still have the same model number.
At the end of Aug, they told me that the next version was ready, and would hit the retail channel in the 2nd or 3rd week of Sept. (accurate)
But looking at the updated manuals on the chenbro site... It specifically mentions the sas-1 lsi sasx36 chip, and 3gb performance.
If it were sas-2, it should read "sas2x36 chip", and 6gb performance.
The only thing i see added for version b0 (in the manual), is a firmware fix to support SGPIO.
I get two possibilities out of this.
1. Version b0 is sas-2... Chenbro is horrible at writing a manual and the manual has many mistakes, due to language differences.
2. Version b0 is sas-1... The people at chenbro listened to me say "sas-2" and "latest lsi expander chips". But due to language diff, heard "version 2", instead of "sas-2".
The manual makes it sound like this is the same sas-1 card, with a firmware or manufacturing fix.
I also find it hard to believe that chenbro has a stand alone sas-2 expander on the market, before any of the large oem's have released or announced sas-2 DAS disk arrays that would be based on the same lsi chip. I would think that lsi would ship chips to the large oem's, before getting stock out to the smaller players.
This is a lot to ask, but: If anyone has a sas-2 LSI raid card + a sas-2 disk + a newer chenbro expander that was delivered this week...
1. Please verify that the sas-2 disk is reported as 6Gb when directly connected to the raid card.
2. Please verify that the sas-2 disk is reported as 6Gb when connected via the chenbro expander.
Is it the lsi sasx36 / sasx28, or is it the lsi sas2x36 / sas2x28?
Due to 2nd language issues, it is difficult to get support/answers from the people at chenbro. The answers are always "yes, yes, ok, yes, yes.. goodbye".
In early June, they told me:
A new version of the sas expanders would be coming out in 2 - 12 weeks. (accurate)
They wanted to sell off all of the v1 expanders, before releasing v2.
The new version was in production. (accurate)
The new version would support sas-2 and use the latest LSI sas-2 expander chips. (??)
It would still have the same model number.
At the end of Aug, they told me that the next version was ready, and would hit the retail channel in the 2nd or 3rd week of Sept. (accurate)
But looking at the updated manuals on the chenbro site... It specifically mentions the sas-1 lsi sasx36 chip, and 3gb performance.
If it were sas-2, it should read "sas2x36 chip", and 6gb performance.
The only thing i see added for version b0 (in the manual), is a firmware fix to support SGPIO.
I get two possibilities out of this.
1. Version b0 is sas-2... Chenbro is horrible at writing a manual and the manual has many mistakes, due to language differences.
2. Version b0 is sas-1... The people at chenbro listened to me say "sas-2" and "latest lsi expander chips". But due to language diff, heard "version 2", instead of "sas-2".
The manual makes it sound like this is the same sas-1 card, with a firmware or manufacturing fix.
I also find it hard to believe that chenbro has a stand alone sas-2 expander on the market, before any of the large oem's have released or announced sas-2 DAS disk arrays that would be based on the same lsi chip. I would think that lsi would ship chips to the large oem's, before getting stock out to the smaller players.
This is a lot to ask, but: If anyone has a sas-2 LSI raid card + a sas-2 disk + a newer chenbro expander that was delivered this week...
1. Please verify that the sas-2 disk is reported as 6Gb when directly connected to the raid card.
2. Please verify that the sas-2 disk is reported as 6Gb when connected via the chenbro expander.
Mine just says "Chenbro SASX36 A.1" on the RAID card management page, so I presume it is the original version. I did not order mine through the retail channels however, so the SAS2 expanders may be out in the retail channels. I have a feeling it will take a while for you to find out what's going on due to how rare these things are.
I had read on this forum that someone got delivery in the last few days from cdw... When talking with another (but high priced) provider of sas expanders, the salesperson casually mentioned that they had one of the chenbro expanders and were planning to test it against their own expander. Then he said "but we just got it yesterday".
Based on the recent deliveries and the chenbro people telling me "2nd - 3rd week of Sept", I think that both the availability and price competition should improve.
If anyone gets one that is marked as revision B0 or later, please report what you can find out about the card.
I don't remember if it's via megacli.exe or lsiutil.exe, but one of those command line programs can give you info about the sas expander/enclosure. But only if you connect with a lsi based HBA.
I don't remember if it's via megacli.exe or lsiutil.exe, but one of those command line programs can give you info about the sas expander/enclosure. But only if you connect with a lsi based HBA.
I'm sorry that I have to post, what is probably an ill informed question, but I cannot find the answer anywhere.
One, what kind of latency is added by an expander?
The reason I ask, is this, take an Adaptec 5805 with 8 SSD drives direct attached. Those SSD drives have such low latency, say .1ms that the Adaptec's latency, when used in RAID mode, actually doubles the latency.
Now I have a system that has triple the expected latency. It has both an Adaptec 5805 (sun firmware) and an LSI expander. All LSI will say is 'low latency", but if its low for traditional harddrives, it may be a whole lot for SSD's.
Second question...pure ignorance on my part, but I was told an LSI card like the 3801E-R, when run in pass through mode, will not add a lot of latency.
But can you run in pass through mode with an expander? I'm guessing you can, but my confusion is coming from not understanding how routing is done and whether pass through mode has any impact on it. Pass through mode doesn't require direct attached drives or anything like that?
One, what kind of latency is added by an expander?
The reason I ask, is this, take an Adaptec 5805 with 8 SSD drives direct attached. Those SSD drives have such low latency, say .1ms that the Adaptec's latency, when used in RAID mode, actually doubles the latency.
Now I have a system that has triple the expected latency. It has both an Adaptec 5805 (sun firmware) and an LSI expander. All LSI will say is 'low latency", but if its low for traditional harddrives, it may be a whole lot for SSD's.
Second question...pure ignorance on my part, but I was told an LSI card like the 3801E-R, when run in pass through mode, will not add a lot of latency.
But can you run in pass through mode with an expander? I'm guessing you can, but my confusion is coming from not understanding how routing is done and whether pass through mode has any impact on it. Pass through mode doesn't require direct attached drives or anything like that?
Drudenhaus
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,126
I have a 5805 on a LSI SASx28 based expander backplane. If you have a Linux tool that can measure drive latency I'd be more than happy to run it for you as long as it doesn't involve me rebooting the box.
Thanks, unfortunately I don't have a tool that measures latency of a particular component.
I've been using a linux program called seeker, you can see herehttp://www.linuxinsight.com/how_fast_is_your_disk.html that its a simple program that sequentially reads from random areas of the disk and measures the time.
What I do, is I take the X25-E drive, and I measure it in one system, and then another...and the performance really drops off in this system with adaptec 5805 and LSI SASX28 ... but I cannot pinpoint how much latency is in the card or how much is in the expander.
I am going to replace the Adaptec 5805 with an LSI 3801E tomorrow.
Ideally, it would be good to have a program that could measure latency, and break it down among the components....but beyond that if I could even run the two tests with direct attached, and then later with SAS expander, then I would just call the difference between the two benches, attributable to the expander....unfortunately I cannot even do that, I cannot direct attach the drives in this system...there is no power cables in this Sun for direct attaching a drive, and I don't have the cabling to do that either...
anyway, thanks for the offer.
I've been using a linux program called seeker, you can see herehttp://www.linuxinsight.com/how_fast_is_your_disk.html that its a simple program that sequentially reads from random areas of the disk and measures the time.
What I do, is I take the X25-E drive, and I measure it in one system, and then another...and the performance really drops off in this system with adaptec 5805 and LSI SASX28 ... but I cannot pinpoint how much latency is in the card or how much is in the expander.
I am going to replace the Adaptec 5805 with an LSI 3801E tomorrow.
Ideally, it would be good to have a program that could measure latency, and break it down among the components....but beyond that if I could even run the two tests with direct attached, and then later with SAS expander, then I would just call the difference between the two benches, attributable to the expander....unfortunately I cannot even do that, I cannot direct attach the drives in this system...there is no power cables in this Sun for direct attaching a drive, and I don't have the cabling to do that either...
anyway, thanks for the offer.
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unhappy_mage
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005
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- Jun 29, 2004
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- 11,455
My impression is that it's nearly zero. I have an ACARD ram drive that I put on a (lsi-based) SAS expander and got 0.0 asvc_t under load according to iostat. I haven't got any better metrics than that, but if you want me to test I can.
How are the disks configured? RAID in hardware or software, filesystem, etc? How are you measuring latency?
Yes, it works fine. You just see many disks available instead of one RAID volume. I'm using an LSI SAS3442E-R at home and one at work, both connected to LSI SAS expanders. Everything behaves like you'd expect.
BUMP -- anyone heard whether Chenbro's SAS2 expanders have hit the market yet? Was holding out on getting a CK-13601 or UEK-13601 until the new rev came out, since I'm planning on getting a SAS2 raid card in Q1/Q2 2010 (Areca 1880 series). Not that one necessitates the need for the other, but hell i've waited this long to buy an expander.
kharan5876
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2007
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- 141
Folks I don't think the new b0 version of the chenbro expander supports sas2 6.0 gbs.
There is a users manual here for the b0 (the one dated 2009-09-01)
http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/service_download_result.php?type=pro&mk=123&sk=
There is a users manual here for the b0 (the one dated 2009-09-01)
http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/service_download_result.php?type=pro&mk=123&sk=
@Odditory -> I've been following your other threads re: dual linking the HP expander with a 6Gbps RAID card and the great resulting speeds. Do you know if the Chenbro is capable of dual linking? I see that it (the CK12803) has two inputs, one external, one internal, but I'm not sure if that alone is enough or if it must explicitly state somewhere that dual linking is supported (I suspect the latter but am totally guessing).
Thanks.
Thanks.
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