CES 2024 Lenovo ThinkCentre Neo Ultra

[Peat Moss]

This is obviously a windows version of the Mac Studio ultra. I mean, Lenovo is not even trying to hide it.

It seems to be able to be configured with up to an Intel i-9. And, unlike the Mac Studio, it can be upgraded. Very nice.

I was soooo hoping this would also have just as powerful graphics as the Mac Studio, but it can only be configured up to an Nvidia 4060, as far as I can tell. And there seems to be no way of connecting an external graphics card. The other question mark is how quiet will it be? Mac Studios are essentially noiseless.

I do really like this form factor though.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenov...or-windows-users-and-it-might-even-be-better/

 

[UnknownSouljer]

This is obviously a windows version of the Mac Studio ultra. I mean, Lenovo is not even trying to hide it.

It seems to be able to be configured with up to an Intel i-9. And, unlike the Mac Studio, it can be upgraded. Very nice.

I was soooo hoping this would also have just as powerful graphics as the Mac Studio, but it can only be configured up to an Nvidia 4060, as far as I can tell. And there seems to be no way of connecting an external graphics card. The other question mark is how quiet will it be? Mac Studios are essentially noiseless.

I do really like this form factor though.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/lenov...or-windows-users-and-it-might-even-be-better/

I would agree. Lack of Occusync or at least a single Thunderbolt 4 port make it an immediate fail.

Also, making a device that only in physical appearance to a Mac product is already self defeating. The Studio is what it is because of its capability. It just also so happens to be able to occupy the form factor it does.

 

[ChadD]

I would agree. Lack of Occusync or at least a single Thunderbolt 4 port make it an immediate fail.

Also, making a device that only in physical appearance to a Mac product is already self defeating. The Studio is what it is because of its capability. It just also so happens to be able to occupy the form factor it does.

At least they are continuing the long history of look a like less then windows devices.

 

[DukenukemX]

This is obviously a windows version of the Mac Studio ultra. I mean, Lenovo is not even trying to hide it.

Why is it that when you see this machine you think they're copying Apple?

It's a small form factor PC or NUC. Apple didn't invent this or even perfect it.

It seems to be able to be configured with up to an Intel i-9. And, unlike the Mac Studio, it can be upgraded. Very nice.

It's called an ITX motherboard. They also have custom NUC's which are just laptop parts in small form factor cases. They're cheap on Aliexpress.

I was soooo hoping this would also have just as powerful graphics as the Mac Studio, but it can only be configured up to an Nvidia 4060, as far as I can tell. And there seems to be no way of connecting an external graphics card.

RTX 40 series seem to destroy the M3's in productivity, so I wouldn't say the RTX 4060 is slower but I can't find any benchmarks of the M3 Mac Stuidio. Unless you seriously think the M2 Mac Studio is going to give an RTX 4060 a hard time? You also can't hook up an external GPU to any Mac Studio.

View: https://youtu.be/7MC8WV-6Z_E?si=KyrTGckevC3o7jvj

The other question mark is how quiet will it be? Mac Studios are essentially noiseless.

Certainly isn't noiseless on the M3 Pro's. Even louder than an Ryzen 7840HS, and twice as slow in Blender while unplugged.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

At least they are continuing the long history of look a like less then windows devices.

I saw elsewhere that the USB on this is supposed to be USB4. In that case it is eGPU capable (providing no other issues). So power users who want this could spend another $300 on an eGPU, however much for the GPU itself, and destroy this things form factor by needing another box to go next to this box. But at least it's an option.

Again, to reiterate, I don't see the point in this. It seems like it makes way more sense to have a slightly larger ITX system that doesn't have any of these compromises. The NUC no longer exists, but IMHO, the NUC Extreme is better than this concept in every way, shape, and form. Or if an argument about form factor arises, the Extreme 12 was the last of the "Mini NUCs"

 

[1337Goat]

Sounds like a Yugioh card.

 

[Peat Moss]

Why is it that when you see this machine you think they're copying Apple?
View attachment 626329

Gee, I don't know. Hmm...Could it be the similar dimensions and proportions, the silver color, maybe even the name "ultra"? Gosh, I dunno, what could it be?

It's a small form factor PC or NUC. Apple didn't invent this or even perfect it.

Where did I say Apple invented the SFF?

RTX 40 series seem to destroy the M3's in productivity, so I wouldn't say the RTX 4060 is slower but I can't find any benchmarks of the M3 Mac Stuidio. Unless you seriously think the M2 Mac Studio is going to give an RTX 4060 a hard time?

Mac Studio M2 Ultra beats Nvidia RTX 4090 in stabilizing video clips, masked tracking, and video export. Of course the 4090 destroys the Mac in any kind of 3D work.


View: https://youtu.be/5dhuxRF2c_w?si=Yko3OhBQ4HdJDmno

M3 Max chip (this is comparing the performance of the chip itself inside a macbook, not the Mac Studio form factor) holds its own against the 4090 for certain productivity tasks.


View: https://youtu.be/Ol4_vleBeqs?si=g3bSC0_rC24a49xB

So yes, the Mac Studio M3 would probably give the 4060 a hard time in many tasks. The M3 Ultra would probably beat the 4060 in most benchmarks.

You also can't hook up an external GPU to any Mac Studio.

In other words, the Lenovo Neo Ultra IS copying the Mac Studio in other ways as well ! Lenovo could have added a TB port so you could connect an external GPU, but they really wanted to copy Apple.

Certainly isn't noiseless on the M3 Pro's. Even louder than an Ryzen 7840HS, and twice as slow in Blender while unplugged.

That's for a laptop, not a Mac Studio. Different cooling design for different form factors.

 

[DukenukemX]

Gee, I don't know. Hmm...Could it be the similar dimensions and proportions, the silver color, maybe even the name "ultra"? Gosh, I dunno, what could it be?

You know how many things have been colored silver and given the name ultra? Intel Core Ultra, LG Ultra PC, Lenovo Thinkstation Ultra, Samsung Galaxy Ultra, and of course Nvidia Geforce Ultra. It's almost like the computer industry has no imagination, including Apple.

Mac Studio M2 Ultra beats Nvidia RTX 4090 in stabilizing video clips, masked tracking, and video export. Of course the 4090 destroys the Mac in any kind of 3D work.


View: https://youtu.be/5dhuxRF2c_w?si=Yko3OhBQ4HdJDmno

M3 Max chip (this is comparing the performance of the chip itself inside a macbook, not the Mac Studio form factor) holds its own against the 4090 for certain productivity tasks.


View: https://youtu.be/Ol4_vleBeqs?si=g3bSC0_rC24a49xB

So yes, the Mac Studio M3 would probably give the 4060 a hard time in many tasks. The M3 Ultra would probably beat the 4060 in most benchmarks.

That's strange because Linus Tech Tips tested it and the PC was vastly faster in Resolve when it comes to exporting. The video you linked showed something like a 4 to 1 second difference in all those tests. While Linus here showed an export time that was nearly 1 minute faster on PC.

View: https://youtu.be/buLyy7x2dcQ?t=562

This YouTube video shows the M3 Pro getting destroyed by the RTX 4080m in Resolve. Seems to me it really depends on who's video you find. Also worth noting that Apple silicon still doesn't do AV1 encoding, but the RTX 4060 can. That's a big deal I feel.

View: https://youtu.be/7MC8WV-6Z_E?list=PLxG1rcvx0wlvapXdPowUwva4eAV1jtPEe&t=349

In other words, the Lenovo Neo Ultra IS copying the Mac Studio in other ways as well ! Lenovo could have added a TB port so you could connect an external GPU, but they really wanted to copy Apple.

I still don't see how. I think people who are obsessed with Apple made that connection. It's just an overpriced NUC, or a shitty ITX PC with proprietary parts. If they truly wanted to copy Apple then they shouldn't have put two M.2 PCIe SSD slots. Not without serialization, AMIRIGHT?

That's for a laptop, not a Mac Studio. Different cooling design for different form factors.

Does cooling now matter for Apple silicon or it still doesn't? I'm not up to date on Apple propaganda stuff.

 

[Peat Moss]

You know how many things have been colored silver and given the name ultra? Intel Core Ultra, LG Ultra PC, Lenovo Thinkstation Ultra, Samsung Galaxy Ultra, and of course Nvidia Geforce Ultra. It's almost like the computer industry has no imagination, including Apple.

Moving the goalpost. We're not talking about "other things", we're talking about SFF mini PCs.

That's strange because Linus Tech Tips tested it and the PC was vastly faster in Resolve when it comes to exporting. The video you linked showed something like a 4 to 1 second difference in all those tests. While Linus here showed an export time that was nearly 1 minute faster on PC.

View: https://youtu.be/buLyy7x2dcQ?t=562

LTT? Seriously? You're actually going by what Linus says, after the huge scandal involving his reviews?

This YouTube video shows the M3 Pro getting destroyed by the RTX 4080m in Resolve. Seems to me it really depends on who's video you find. Also worth noting that Apple silicon still doesn't do AV1 encoding, but the RTX 4060 can. That's a big deal I feel.

Again, it's irrelevant to compare laptop GPU performance with mini PC performance, since these form factors have different cooling systems (even different cooling designs within similar specced laptops) which affect performance. You need to compare like with like, oranges with oranges. Not laptops with mini PCs.

I still don't see how. I think people who are obsessed with Apple made that connection. It's just an overpriced NUC, or a shitty ITX PC with proprietary parts. If they truly wanted to copy Apple then they shouldn't have put two M.2 PCIe SSD slots. Not without serialization, AMIRIGHT?

I was half joking about that. My main point was that Lenovo is copying the form factor, appearance, naming scheme, and to some degree, the features, of the Mac Studio. BTW, I'm not obsessed with Apple and not an Apple fan boi. I hate Apple, and you couldn't pay me to own an Apple computer. The purpose of my original post was to draw attention to the similarities between Lenovo's new mini PC and the Mac Studio, that's all, not to defend Apple.

Does cooling now matter for Apple silicon or it still doesn't? I'm not up to date on Apple propaganda stuff.

The Mac Studio has a better and more spacious cooling design than Macbooks do. Macbooks still thermal throttle.

 

[DukenukemX]

Moving the goalpost. We're not talking about "other things", we're talking about SFF mini PCs.

I mean... yes we are talking about SFF mini PCs. Thank you for seeing that.

LTT? Seriously? You're actually going by what Linus says, after the huge scandal involving his reviews?

Your video compared it to the RTX 4090 on video clips, masked tracking, and video export. Not only Linus shows that export is faster on his PC, but then another video I linked shows that Object tracker on a RTX 4080m is hilariously faster than the M3 Pro. So either everyone is nit picking benchmark results, or the M2 Ultra Mac is not as fast as you think. The Linus scandal does not invalidate all his benchmark results. The problem is that you can't find many good Mac vs PC benchmark tests.

Again, it's irrelevant to compare laptop GPU performance with mini PC performance, since these form factors have different cooling systems (even different cooling designs within similar specced laptops) which affect performance. You need to compare like with like, oranges with oranges. Not laptops with mini PCs.

That would make sense, except that everyone says that cooling doesn't matter on these M chips. I also don't think any of these devices thermal throttle severely unless they don't have any active cooling like the Macbook Air.

I was half joking about that. My main point was that Lenovo is copying the form factor, appearance, naming scheme, and to some degree, the features, of the Mac Studio. BTW, I'm not obsessed with Apple and not an Apple fan boi. I hate Apple, and you couldn't pay me to own an Apple computer. The purpose of my original post was to draw attention to the similarities between Lenovo's new mini PC and the Mac Studio, that's all, not to defend Apple.

How are they copying the form factor? It doesn't look they copied anything. You said it yourself, it's a SFF mini PC. Lots of products for a long time used the name Ultra. Like what features? USB Ports? Lack of a proper Thunderbolt port? Does it have rack and pinion steering? The similarities are they're both small computers that are silver and have the name Ultra in it. That's like half of all computers sold.

 

[Peat Moss]

I mean... yes we are talking about SFF mini PCs. Thank you for seeing that.

So either everyone is nit picking benchmark results, or the M2 Ultra Mac is not as fast as you think. The Linus scandal does not invalidate all his benchmark results. The problem is that you can't find many good Mac vs PC benchmark tests.

Yes, everyone is nitpicking benchmark results. And yes, the Linus scandal invalidates all his benchmark results.

That would make sense, except that everyone says that cooling doesn't matter on these M chips. I also don't think any of these devices thermal throttle severely unless they don't have any active cooling like the Macbook Air.

M Chips require cooling, like any other CPU. Macbook Pros thermal throttle, just ask anyone who uses one for heavy workloads for hours on end.

The similarities are they're both small computers that are silver and have the name Ultra in it. That's like half of all computers sold.

Half of all computers sold are silver colored mini PCs with the same form factor and proportions as the Mac Studio and with name ultra in them? Lol....Sure bud.

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

It’s hideous.