Building a Surge Protector into your box?

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Gauvain

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While this is very nifty, especially in a Pelt setup, it's not quite what I'm after.

1. Smaller footprint at LAN
2. More organized external cable layout
3. Ability to integrate more spiffy shiny peripherals into my mod w/o invalidating their warranty(s)
 
Originally posted by SuperBoatDude586
AC 120V(or 240V if you're somewhere remote... like Europe :p) CAN AND WIL KILL YOU easily if it gets the chance.


So unplug the cord before you cut it, please? :D
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It CAN kill you, it doesn't mean it WILL kill you. I've been shocked by AC120V lines many times over.

<Firemarshall Bill> Here .. let me show you sumthin' </firemarshall bill>


Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage. And a regular household wall socket will not normally have enough to whipe you out. Infact, I learned during training that it's easier to be killed by a telephone line on the jumper blocks than a household socket. :)
 
Don't almost all PSUs already have a surge protector built into them? I see some MOVs next to the big capacitors, and between the AC receptacle and everything else are some rectangular capacitors and coils and usually blue or orange disk capacitors. On the cheaper PSUs the MOVs are left out (circuit board marked "MOV","ZD", or "ZNR", but the last two could mean regular zener diodes) and on the really cheap PSUs even those capacitors are left out and the coils replaced with jumpers soldered to the PC board (tons of radio noise because of that). About the only MOV I've never seen is one wired between the two AC lines, and it should be easy to solder a MOV to them at the AC receptacle (maybe also another from one AC line to the ground tab and a third to the other AC line to ground), if there's room, but I don't know if it's considered a good idea to install MOVs ahead of the main fuse.

But why mess with high voltage when you don't have to?

Some people who seem to be experts say it's a lot better to get a whole-house surge protector installed in the main circuit breaker box because its ground connection is a lot better.
 
Originally posted by Spidey329
It CAN kill you, it doesn't mean it WILL kill you. I've been shocked by AC120V lines many times over.

<Firemarshall Bill> Here .. let me show you sumthin' </firemarshall bill>


Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage. And a regular household wall socket will not normally have enough to whipe you out. Infact, I learned during training that it's easier to be killed by a telephone line on the jumper blocks than a household socket. :)
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Yeah I got shocked with 120 VAC the other day, and all it did was startle me. I was in a dark room, so I reached underneath a lamp shade to hit the switch. The threading on the lightbulb was a little exposed and I touched it. Oops. :p
 
Hmmm, intresting idea. Here is how i would approach it:
First, a case designed for a dual PSU/enough room for a second psu (Fulltowers). Take an old AT/ATX Powersupply and gut it leaving the case. take whatever surge strip (If you really wanted surge protection) and gut it. run 4 or 5 plugs to the back side of the powersupply box ( towards the outside of the case) and maybe 2 or 3 towards the inside of the case. Mount the surge stuff inside the old psu and connect it all up. Run AC from the SurgeStripPSU to your atx psu via a small hole for that steath look. Want to take the project a step further? Add remote controls using switches and you got yourself a completly controlable surge strip!

Seems easy enough, might be a fun project to try if i had time
 
I kind of stuck a staple in the outlet when i was 5 or 6. While it startled me, and popped the circuit breakers, I'm alive and well.... If I had been wet, it probably would have fucked me up, but a metal staple has less resistance than I do, it took the path of least resistance. My finger was completely black though.
 
Step By Step 9 - Power Conditioning
DIY UPS
both @ Dansdata


"The plain surge/spike filter powerboards you can buy at various electronics, electrical and hardware stores are, arguably, worse than nothing. This is because they give you the impression you’re protected, when you probably aren’t - well, not for long, anyway.

The chief surge-clamping component in a basic filter-board is a Metal-Oxide Varistor (MOV). MOVs pass current only when the voltage across them is above a set value, and they react very quickly (in a matter of microseconds, against the tens of milliseconds a circuit breaker takes). That’s the good news. The bad news is that MOVs wear out - they’re only good for a few uses, and the bigger the spike, the more damage is done.

Cheap power filters seldom give you any indication whether your MOV is alive or not. If the powerboard has an illuminated power switch, the switch light often goes off when the MOV has died. The switch lights generally last for decades, so no light almost definitely means no MOV - but since the light only shows the status of a fuse, and the fuse won’t blow if the MOV has been killed by lots of smaller surges, the light can keep glowing merrily when the MOV has long since kicked the bucket.

Anti-spike gear may also include gas arrestor tubes, which are far more durable than MOVs but too slow for computer applications, or silicon avalanche diodes, which give much of the robustness of gas tubes with the speed of a MOV. The best spike suppressors have all three components, but you won’t find those at the hardware store. Standard MOV-equipped powerboard suppressors sell for around $50 (Australian dollars)."


PS 110v rarely kills unless your standing in a puddle of water
(near perfect ground)
but 220v will knock you cold (I know 1st hand :eek: )
 
Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage.

Then how come a 500A 12V car battery won't stop my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will?
 
Originally posted by larrymoencurly
Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage.

Then how come a 500A 12V car battery won't stop my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will?
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Remember that AC and DC are different. Also it really depends how you take the shock, i have shocked myself with AC though my fingers and it kind of felt like a very very powerful 9 volt against the tongue. If you go from one hand to the other, though the heart, then its getting risky. Easy way to stop that from happening: Take one of your hands, and stick it in your back pocket, that way you wont accidentally complete a circuit
 
Originally posted by echoes
Yeah I got shocked with 120 VAC the other day, and all it did was startle me. I was in a dark room, so I reached underneath a lamp shade to hit the switch. The threading on the lightbulb was a little exposed and I touched it. Oops. :p
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Your lamp and\or out let is wired backwared then you should not have gotten shocked the hot wire goes to the bottom button and the nuetral to the threads on the socket if wired backward that will happen. so check your wireing:)
 
Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage.

>> Then how come a 500A 12V car battery won't stop
>> my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will?

Remember that AC and DC are different.

OK, then how come a transformer with a 12V output with a maximum 500A rating won't stop my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will? Could it be that voltage matters after all because current is related to voltage?
 
Originally posted by larrymoencurly
Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage.

>> Then how come a 500A 12V car battery won't stop
>> my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will?

Remember that AC and DC are different.

OK, then how come a transformer with a 12V output with a maximum 500A rating won't stop my heart the way a 15A 120V wall outlet will? Could it be that voltage matters after all because current is related to voltage?
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Show us a wall transformer with 500A on it and maybe someone will answer your question. I think you're thinking 500mA (milli-Amp...take 1000 of these to equal 1A).

Go pick up any beginner electricians book and find out for yourself. Why do you think that they make stun guns in such high voltages (20Kv-250Kv) and they almost ALWAYS run off one or two 9v batteries???? It's because voltage won't kill you as easily as Amperage will. It takes as little as 2A to kill a person (I believe that number is even less given perfect conditions), while that same person in the same conditions can take thousands of volts and simply be stunned.
 
I just put my surge protector in my case, or rather I used to.
 
Stun guns use high voltage, but how much voltage actually reaches the person? Because if 100,000V is in series with 10 megaohms, the most that can be delivered is 10mA. And don't stun guns work at high frequency, meaning that a lot of the current goes over the body rather than through it?

Show us a wall transformer with 500A on it and maybe someone will answer your question. I think you're thinking 500mA

Did I say "wall transformer"? But since this is just an example, what difference does it make? I asked why a 12VAC source with a 500A capacity was safer for shock than a 120VAC source with a 15A capacity.

It takes as little as 2A to kill a person (I believe that number is even less given perfect conditions), while that same person in the same conditions can take thousands of volts and simply be stunned.

Then why are most ground fault interrupters set to trigger at far, far less current? I've seen the test button wired in series with a 15K resistor, for about 8mA leakage. Why does UL standard 943 for GFIs put limits of 7 seconds to disconnect the power when the leakage is 5mA and 0.03 second when it's 200mA (90% lower than your 2A figure)? Why do many service manuals recommend testing repaired devices with a 1500 ohm resistor in parallel with 0.15uF capacitance to verify less than 0.75VAC across it (about 5mA through it) when connected between any exposed metal and the hot 120VAC? The following page about electric shock hazards says that 10-20mA can be enough to prevent people from letting go of electric lines, while 100-300mA can make the heart fibrillate. Anouther source says that 25-50mA can stop the breathing.
 
dont say that moron. You should know that V=IR, and the amperage going through you is dependant on the resistance of your skin and guess what, the incoming voltage.

Originally posted by Spidey329
Remember, voltage doesn't matter at all, it's all about amperage.
Click to expand...
 
the reason the stun gun doesnt kill you is because the zap is electrostatic and so it works a little differently number wise. If i hooked you up to a 20Kv powersupply you would be dead, guarenteed. You would be burnt to a crisp in an instant.

Originally posted by nst6563
Show us a wall transformer with 500A on it and maybe someone will answer your question. I think you're thinking 500mA (milli-Amp...take 1000 of these to equal 1A).

Go pick up any beginner electricians book and find out for yourself. Why do you think that they make stun guns in such high voltages (20Kv-250Kv) and they almost ALWAYS run off one or two 9v batteries???? It's because voltage won't kill you as easily as Amperage will. It takes as little as 2A to kill a person (I believe that number is even less given perfect conditions), while that same person in the same conditions can take thousands of volts and simply be stunned.
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The 12V, "500A" wall transformer will always be safer than a 120V any amperage supply.

Originally posted by larrymoencurly
Did I say "wall transformer"? But since this is just an example, what difference does it make? I asked why a 12VAC source with a 500A capacity was safer for shock than a 120VAC source with a 15A capacity.
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haha! check it out! One smart ass remark from lil' ol' me and suddenly ALL the "experts" (that's an all inclusive statement so even the 12 year olds don't feel left out) join the thread....

funny thing is tho...I still don't think anyone really gave anybody a good clear answer to the original question :)

ok...have fun flaming again.:p
 
pssh.. 120v... kill me... it just made me convulse a little as the current ran through my arm down to my feet.. then my arm curled up and contracted painfully...

And I fell onto the couch and gasped for air for a few seconds... but I did not die... :D may have messed me up a bit tho...
 
Originally posted by CSx-2011
pssh.. 120v... kill me... it just made me convulse a little as the current ran through my arm down to my feet.. then my arm curled up and contracted painfully...

And I fell onto the couch and gasped for air for a few seconds... but I did not die... :D may have messed me up a bit tho...
Click to expand...

As long as you don't have uncontrollable flatulance everything should be fine when you attend a lan party afterwards:p
 
DC is a lot more dangerous than AC...

The first electric chair that Edison invented was AC because he pioneered DC electricity and wanted to associate AC with death, but it took forever for the first victim to die, he just got really bad shock and pain. That's why they have DC electric chairs (there are circuits that convert the AC delivered from power lines to DC for the chair). That's also why AC is used for household power as opposed to DC (that and DC has like a 50 mile limit for transferring power unless using a superconductor). At least that's according to my physics professor. So, I don't see how a DC12v 500a is safer than a AC120v 50a.

On the note about 220v... while I was in China, I had a TV plug I was trying to remove, silly me, my finger slipped and accidentally landed on one of the prongs while the plug was halfway removed. A small region of my thumb went white for a few weeks, but I didn't pass out or anything, lucky me I guess. But that HURT like a one ton elephant balanced on a pin on my thumb... owwiee!
 
The reason we use AC for power is not because of edisons electric chair or anything like that. The reason we use AC for power is because its very easy to step it up to thousands of volts while reducing the amperage through the power line. High amperage will melt wires. High voltage can be handled by wires without an issue. It takes upwards of 60-120KV to affect wires, which is where the potential is so great it vaporizes the wire. Anyways, by stepping up the voltage, we can transfer great loads of energy across great distances, which we couldnt do with DC unless the wires were a yard in diameter or more.

If you want to know why the 12v 500a supply is safer than the AC120v 50a supply, i'll explain. For one, the amperages listed dont really matter. V=IR. There is no way to force more current through something when you keep its resistance and resistance the same. Since the resistance of your skin is relativly fixed, when you grab the two powersupplies, the 120v supply will give you 10 times as much amperage as the 12v. Always. Now, the AC/DC difference will affect where the energy flows through your body, but that doesnt really matter in this explanation.

Originally posted by dotZIP
DC is a lot more dangerous than AC...

The first electric chair that Edison invented was AC because he pioneered DC electricity and wanted to associate AC with death, but it took forever for the first victim to die, he just got really bad shock and pain. That's why they have DC electric chairs (there are circuits that convert the AC delivered from power lines to DC for the chair). That's also why AC is used for household power as opposed to DC (that and DC has like a 50 mile limit for transferring power unless using a superconductor). At least that's according to my physics professor. So, I don't see how a DC12v 500a is safer than a AC120v 50a.
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Anyways, the saying that the amperage is what matters is mostly a rule of thumb. To say voltage has nothing to do with it is pure ignorance.
 
Originally posted by Whatsisname
but that doesnt really matter in this explanation.
Anyways, the saying that the amperage is what matters is mostly a rule of thumb. To say voltage has nothing to do with it is pure ignorance.
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yes...but ignorance is bliss... :p
 
Originally posted by nst6563
As long as you don't have uncontrollable flatulance everything should be fine when you attend a lan party afterwards:p
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But I did.... :(

hahahah.. not really.

But seriously, dont get electrocuted. It doesn't feel very good...
 
Originally posted by CSx-2011
pssh.. 120v... kill me... it just made me convulse a little as the current ran through my arm down to my feet.. then my arm curled up and contracted painfully...

And I fell onto the couch and gasped for air for a few seconds... but I did not die... :D may have messed me up a bit tho...
Click to expand...
Good grief, you guys......120 VAC will most certanly kill you dead as a hammer. Who is smarter; the guy that takes reasonable precautions to not work on live AC circuits or the guy that dies proving that it won't kill you....??.....:rolleyes:

Friendly suggestion: stop flaming each other and keep it on topic......

B.B.S.
 
the reason the stun gun doesnt kill you is because the zap is electrostatic and so it works a little differently number wise. If i hooked you up to a 20Kv powersupply you would be dead, guarenteed. You would be burnt to a crisp in an instant.

How can it be electrostatic when they all use a step-up transformer to generate that high voltage? And how can the electricity be just static if electrons are actually moving?

I once saw a demonstration where high frequency AC flowed from a guy's feet and out his fingertips as lightinng bolts. He said he wasn't killed because the electricity flowed over him rather than through, and he also wore thimbles to keep his fingertips from burning from the arcs.
 
The zap lasts only a microsecond or so so it acts as though its electrostatic. If it was continous 20,000+ volts or so you would be toast..

As for your demonstration, thats because its AC. High frequency AC travels over the surface of the conducter. If it was DC he would be a goner. Also, if it was low frequency (such as 60hz), he would be a goner.

Originally posted by larrymoencurly
the reason the stun gun doesnt kill you is because the zap is electrostatic and so it works a little differently number wise. If i hooked you up to a 20Kv powersupply you would be dead, guarenteed. You would be burnt to a crisp in an instant.

How can it be electrostatic when they all use a step-up transformer to generate that high voltage? And how can the electricity be just static if electrons are actually moving?

I once saw a demonstration where high frequency AC flowed from a guy's feet and out his fingertips as lightinng bolts. He said he wasn't killed because the electricity flowed over him rather than through, and he also wore thimbles to keep his fingertips from burning from the arcs.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Whatsisname
If it was DC he would be a goner. Also, if it was low frequency (such as 60hz), he would be a goner.
Click to expand...

but don't forget, when in the process of being shocked, he'd also be a groaner...or maybe a screamer...but surely a stinker once the hair started to singe...:p
 
We use AC for two reasons- effeciency, and safety. AC pulses at 60hz, it doesn't paralyze your muscles. You can pull away from an AC shock. DC does not do this, your muscles are paralyzed and you do not have control.

A car battery will kill you. Household current will kill you. A 9v will kill you. In the proper situation. Simply completing a circuit with your hands will give youa jolt- but your skin has enough resistance to keep you from getting killed. However, if the current gets a circuit into the far more conductive bloodstream, an amperage as low as 100ma(Milli-amps.... thousanths of an amp) through the heart will stop it and you will die.

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf

Again I say:

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf
 
agreed, but you need to replace most of your will's with can's.

Originally posted by phasmatis_nox
We use AC for two reasons- effeciency, and safety. AC pulses at 60hz, it doesn't paralyze your muscles. You can pull away from an AC shock. DC does not do this, your muscles are paralyzed and you do not have control.

A car battery will kill you. Household current will kill you. A 9v will kill you. In the proper situation. Simply completing a circuit with your hands will give youa jolt- but your skin has enough resistance to keep you from getting killed. However, if the current gets a circuit into the far more conductive bloodstream, an amperage as low as 100ma(Milli-amps.... thousanths of an amp) through the heart will stop it and you will die.

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf

Again I say:

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by BlindedByScience
Good grief, you guys......120 VAC will most certanly kill you dead as a hammer. Who is smarter; the guy that takes reasonable precautions to not work on live AC circuits or the guy that dies proving that it won't kill you....??.....:rolleyes:

Friendly suggestion: stop flaming each other and keep it on topic......

B.B.S.
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I wasnt doing any circuit work... my iguanas cage light was keeping me awake so I unplugged it. Awhile later I figured he would get too cold. My finger caught the prongs as I blindly put the plug into the power strip. I probably got juice for about 1 second total...

I know it could kill me... Just my survivor story. heheh
 
Well, I guess I have moved up in the community. My first totally runaway thread.
 
....but theyre $5. why would you go to all that trouble when you can buy one for $5? Hell I bought a full UPS for $20 at black friday which could be modded into a full tower...
 
Originally posted by phasmatis_nox
We use AC for two reasons- effeciency, and safety. AC pulses at 60hz, it doesn't paralyze your muscles. You can pull away from an AC shock. DC does not do this, your muscles are paralyzed and you do not have control.

A car battery will kill you. Household current will kill you. A 9v will kill you. In the proper situation. Simply completing a circuit with your hands will give youa jolt- but your skin has enough resistance to keep you from getting killed. However, if the current gets a circuit into the far more conductive bloodstream, an amperage as low as 100ma(Milli-amps.... thousanths of an amp) through the heart will stop it and you will die.

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf

Again I say:

http://www.kwantlen.bc.ca/electronics/eltn1111/edata/ElectricShock.pdf
Click to expand...

absolutly. 9v can easily kill you, just put a needle on each terminal and jam them into your skin. instant heart failure. happens to people all the time trying to, this is relevent to the thread, PROVE SOMETHING. on the other hand, ive grabbed live PSUs and exposed wires a few times and all it did was make me buzz. both AC and DC.

when tesla and edison were battling for the electric future of the world, edison was trying to prove that AC was super dangerous by electrocuting animals in public demonstrations. AC is dangerous, but it also is a lot better economically, electrically, etc.

bottom line: dont be a dumbass and not take precautions.
 
this thread looks more like a debate on what will kill you. thought we were supposed to be coming up with ideas on how to mod this surge protector??:rolleyes: i don't know enough to help you out with this one, but i do know that you ccan't mod unless your voiding the warranty:D thats what makes it fun
 
Originally posted by Gauvain
Well, I guess I have moved up in the community. My first totally runaway thread.
Click to expand...


for this achievement...I congratulate you...:p
 
Originally posted by Gauvain
Well, I guess I have moved up in the community. My first totally runaway thread.
Click to expand...
...sorry for the mess. I think it's time to put this poor thing out of it's misery, as it's gone way off topic. I left it open hoping you'd get your question answered, but I guess it's not to be in this thread.

As such......
 
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