LeviathanZERO
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Some of you guys bitching don't realize there is a hard mode for every mission.You must unlock it
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Both versions of MGS V coming to Steam.
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TheSandman21
Gawd
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I wonder if Konami would sell Phantom Pain at a small discount to Steam purchasers who bought Ground Zeroes. The infrastructure is in place to do it....
I doubt it. If they try to get it out the same time as console release they'll probably want to price it the same.
a prologue by its very definition is an introduction which leads into another story...so to say that there will be zero overlap is wrong...the events in Ground Zeroes will set the stage for Phantom Pain...I'm sure the prologue will be included in some way in the full game itself...as you said it was originally meant to be 1 full game which was split up because it was taking longer then they anticipated to ship
it technically might not be a demo but it seems they are testing out the graphics/gameplay on the PC platform
At most there might some dialog in a cut-scene dealing with it or some text file. Though Kojima being Kojima it might just be a throwaway line like "X happened after the Ground Zeroes mission" or something vague like that. They won't include the entire game in Phantom Pain though.
UnknownSouljer
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As I noted in my post, they don't even take place in the same time frame. You will not be completing the same missions in both games. Basically this retort is due to your ignorance, and you could've just said: "okay, I didn't realize this wasn't a demo", but now you're spending more time digging your own hole.
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And no, your response is still incorrect. Ground Zeros and Phantom Pain are two different games. So there isn't a "full game", at least not in the way you are describing it.
Wikipedia describes it thusly:
Wikipedia said:
To reiterate what I said before, of course there is the possibility at some point in the future, Ground Zeros will be bundled with Phantom Pain, but buying Phantom Pain alone will NOT give you the content of Ground Zeros.
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..... For anyone not thinking this is a demo. Think MGS2.
Then equate this to the beginning area where you play as Solid. Sure, it's not a demo, it's worst. It's a small piece of the game, taken out oh so generously, to allow players to get used to the game.
Then equate this to the beginning area where you play as Solid. Sure, it's not a demo, it's worst. It's a small piece of the game, taken out oh so generously, to allow players to get used to the game.
I don't know what you're arguing about when your own Wikipedia post says that both games "form one combined game"...and again you keep saying that they are '2 different games'...of course they are 2 games but in reality they form 1 story...doesn't matter if Phantom Pain takes place years after Ground Zeroes...a lot of movies and books have shifting time frames or prologues but that doesn't mean they are 2 separate entities
again the developer/creative director has stated that this was originally meant to be 1 game (meaning GZ was originally meant to be included as part of PP)...separating it only occurred because the development time was taking longer then anticipated and they wanted to release something to tide people over...so yes this is an unofficial paid demo
UnknownSouljer
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You are super dense. Do you also think that DLC is the same thing as main games? Do you think sequels are the same things as previous games? Every sentence you said makes sense until you reach your conclusion.
You state (summarizing): that these are TWO parts that make ONE game. Then your conclusion is: well the first part must be a demo. If you are missing the first part, then it's not complete. If you only play the second part, you haven't played the entire game. I don't know what about this doesn't make sense to you. Logically as you've stated if: 'both games form "one combined game"' then removing one of those two parts means that you do not have that.
Therefore and in summary: You have to play Ground Zeros AND the Phantom Pain in order to experience all of MGS: 5. Skipping Ground Zeros is up to you, but then you are missing elements of the story. Ground Zeros is not in the Phantom Pain and vice versa. Both are necessary to complete the 1 experience, that is to say, the full game. Ground Zeros is content, it is not a demo.
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MavericK
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You guys are basically just arguing semantics. A demo can be the first part of a game that is cut out from the whole (actually, often this is the case), and by that definition you could say this is a demo, albeit one with more gameplay than most demos, probably.
Let us not forget, also, that they were selling this for $40 initially.
Let us not forget, also, that they were selling this for $40 initially.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that ran into this issue. I've had to end the process in task manager multiple times just to get the game to launch. As far as gameplay is concerned I was a bit disappointed after finishing the main mission before I realized this unlocked additional missions and difficulties. Admittedly it's still not a ton of gameplay, but I do see myself putting a bit more time into this and making it worth the $10 I spent on it.
UnknownSouljer
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Actually we're not. I acknowledge that many games would have you play the first part of the game and call it a demo. HOWEVER, this would only be the case if that part you played in the demo was also the same part played in the full title. This is not a case of playing a part of a full title. There is literally different content between the two titles. There is no form or definition that you could use (whether in the context of video games or otherwise) that this is a demo.
If Ground Zeros is say 20% of the overall story and Phantom Pain is 80%, there is no overlap. If I was to cut ANY game into two parts in the same fashion, you couldn't say that whichever game came first was a demo. You could argue that it is part 1-2 followed by parts 3-10 (or whatever chapter based system you could conceivably assign), but in any case the gameplay between both titles would not be the same.
This comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of a) what a demo is, and b) what Ground Zeros is in relation to Phantom Pain.
MavericK
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So you're cool with a company cutting a game in pieces and then charging $40+ per piece? I get what you are saying but again it just seems like a semantic argument, unless you honestly think it's okay for companies to do this. In which case, I'm not really sure what to say to that.
I mean, basically you are saying that even though they admitted outright that it was a single game split apart, since they are now "separate games" according to you, it's okay for them to charge for this as a separate title. Honestly I find that to be an awful practice, and I hope no other developers follow suit.
i think his point is that, GZ is not a demo
O and i'm pretty sure i bought my copy of GZ for $30 on ps4 (they slashed price before launch)
UnknownSouljer
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Whether I'm "cool" with it or not is not what I'm arguing, nor is it relevant to the point I'm making (in fact what you just did was introduce the 'red herring' logical fallacy). The argument I'm making isn't semantics, at least if you followed all of the parts I mentioned in the thread, or intended to be. It devolved into that only after the point had to be made about what the definition of what a "demo" is. Originally all I was trying to explain is that literally the content is different. That's been my point the entire time. Different content ≠ Demo.
They are literally separate games, because they have been separated. It's odd that you think I want to argue semantics, but then all of your arguments revolve around it.
As far as what developers are going to do: they will do as they see fit. If you want to get upset about that and only buy part of the game (the 'greater half') then that is up to you. That is an entirely different discussion, and one I don't think is worth having. I will simply give you the Kyle Bennet [H] creed which is to say: "Vote with your wallet". It seems to me as per usual, the best plan is to simply wait until it's a price you think is fair. Or as I've said now for the third time, wait until virtual inevitability happens: the two games are packaged together.
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MavericK
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Fair enough, though the whole discussion about the length of the game versus the value seemed to be a theme throughout the thread so it's not really a reach to discuss it. But you're right, you personally did not bring up that aspect so that's fine.
I personally do not believe a single game that has been split into multiple parts magically makes it separate games. But if you do, I guess that's fine. That's why it's a semantic argument, though, because although you argue that if you use the word "separate" that makes it two games, I am saying that just because content is split or removed from a single title, that doesn't make that split content a completely separate game. It is still simply a piece of the original.
Agreed, though I think it is definitely a discussion worth having, but maybe not in this thread.
chameleoneel
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Ground Zeroes is a sub-title of Metal Gear Solid 5, with original content. The end.
However, as a package; it is a convenient way to proof of concept the new engine and some of the gameplay mechanics. To guage player reaction and to essentially encourage players to dig into the game. To break it, if they can. And many have. The Phantom Pain will be a better game, for it.
However, as a package; it is a convenient way to proof of concept the new engine and some of the gameplay mechanics. To guage player reaction and to essentially encourage players to dig into the game. To break it, if they can. And many have. The Phantom Pain will be a better game, for it.
Viper87227
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This thread hurts my brain. It's been labeled as a paid demo since it released. Arguing that just means you are taking the word demo way to literally. From a length standpoint, it very much feels like a demo. We all know it's not content that is going to be in phantom pain, and in that sense, it's not a demo. But calling it a demo gives a universally understood idea of what to expect in terms of content.
Beyond that... who cares what its called? The game is good. The game is short. It was colossally overpriced on consoles when it released for $40. It's still overpriced on PC at $20 (The sale price for $13 was a lot closer to what it should be.)
Beyond that... who cares what its called? The game is good. The game is short. It was colossally overpriced on consoles when it released for $40. It's still overpriced on PC at $20 (The sale price for $13 was a lot closer to what it should be.)
I'm sad that the min specs for this game are so high considering it runs at 30fps on 360 and PS3. Anybody have an idea how this would run on a 1gig 5770? I see the min spec is a GTX 650 (also 1 gig) but I don't know how they compare in performance.
This isn't anything new from Konami, I remember having to buy the full game Zone of the Enders just to play the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo back in the days.
If your a fan of the series this extended play demo is easily worth $13 . Not only are you getting a polished pc port but your helping to encourage more game companies to abandon the exclusive console model and publish more games on Steam and the pc platform.
If your a fan of the series this extended play demo is easily worth $13 . Not only are you getting a polished pc port but your helping to encourage more game companies to abandon the exclusive console model and publish more games on Steam and the pc platform.
UnknownSouljer
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It hurts my brain too. Illogical things generally do.
Demo has zero other idiomatic meanings (that is to say, non-literal meanings), unless you are now making them up on the spot.
Length has nothing to do with term demo. There are other 'full titles' in existence that have a similar play time or length. Tons in the indie category. No one calls any of those titles "demos".
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Viper87227
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You are thinking waaaaaay to much into it... or arguing just for the sake of arguing. The game is similar in length and feel of your average AAA game demo. That's it. No, it's not actually a demo, nobody is saying it is. But it does feel like one in many aspects. More importantly,the use of the word demo is not what upsets people about ground zeroes. The amount of content in comparison to the price is. Call it whatever the fuck you want... it doesn't change the fact that it was a game released at $40 for 2-3 hours of content (yeah, there is a lot more if you chose to replay and stuff... that can be said for any game. The core, base game is 2-3 hours and thats what your average gamer is going to get out of it).
If you wanted to argue the games value (and could make a case for it) that at least has some validity. Arguing what to label the game as... seriously... why does it matter?
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UnknownSouljer
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It's more accurate to say I care about the diction and the English language. Generally the internet devolves and would call me a "grammar-Nazi". Still word choice is critical. Not only for the user but for others to understand.
And to oppose your opinion, yes this did start because someone literally called it a paid demo, and believed it to be a demo, and desired to opt to only paying for and buying the "full game" known as Phantom Pain. I believe that these kinds of confusions happen directly because people misappropriate words.
I personally would rather have people argue over meaning than to have misunderstanding.
MavericK
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...along with several prominent game reviewers.
UnknownSouljer
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5 hours of gameplay so far and 28 percent completion. I still have two side ops I haven't unlocked yet.
Things are a bit repetitive, yes, but there is a deceptive amount of content in this and some of the complaints in this thread read like they are charging $50 and up for this as opposed to $15 or less.
Things are a bit repetitive, yes, but there is a deceptive amount of content in this and some of the complaints in this thread read like they are charging $50 and up for this as opposed to $15 or less.
that's all he's doing...everyone is pretty much in agreement that the game is a paid demo...1 or 2 people just arguing against it for the sake of arguing...looking forward to Phantom Pain...hopefully it comes out sooner rather then later in 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2ZPmvw0DkQ
some japanese dude doing shit you wouldn't have imagined with GZ
some japanese dude doing shit you wouldn't have imagined with GZ
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Exactly how many demos offer 5-10 hours of gameplay? I get the paid demo argument solely based on it being one area but the amount of time you can get out of doing everything puts it beyond the playtime of several $60 AAA titles. If this was a 1-2 hour thing I'd fully agree but it has enough content to fill a $20 title (or half of that if you got in on the Greenmangaming deal), especially one with the high production values of Ground Zeroes. Now if we're talking to $30 or $40 (depending on platform) that it launched at on consoles, then yes it's totally not worth that.
I'm not saying it's not worth $13...you can get some good hours of gameplay out of it...my point is that it's a small sample of the game...that's what a demo is...the developer stated both games were 1 story and were only separated due to extended development time...splitting it in 2 was not the original plan...people keep going on that it's 2 games so it cannot be classified as a demo...that's simply not true
playing to 100% completion to pad game time is not something I advocate either...going on a bunch of collection quests or looting every chest in a game is great if you want to do it but it in no way is something that should be considered part of the core game
I'm not saying that due to it being two games that is isn't a demo, I'm saying that due to the size and amount of content it does not feel like a demo. While the comparison doesn't totally work, to me Ground Zeroes feels a bit like an issue 0 for a comic book. Something released, sometimes for a lower price, to act as an introduction to the characters, world, and story structure of the main series. Or maybe a side-story for a book series, something written to tide fans over when the writer decides to take forever to finish the next book. I can't really think of a game equivalent off the top of my head since the closest thing is the Prologue things for Gran Turismo but those really do feel like paid demos.
but my main point is that these '2' games are really 1 game...it was always meant to be 1...forgetting that it was split into 2, would you feel the same if this was released as part of Phantom Pain?
$20 or $30 depending on platform on launch
I can't tell you what I would think if it was part of Phantom Pain because it is not and Phantom Pain is not out. have no way of knowing what I even think of that game in general. I can not engage in speculation when there are so many unknown factors and impossible situations. I don't care what they originally planned, what matters is the present and what happened to lead to it. Plans change, simple as that.
ghostwich
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It's surprising how sandbox-y this can get... here's a good one I saw yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzmznq2JhjI
Exactly. I can't wait to get into the rest of this when the time comes.
Looks like people have figured out how to mess with settings and do some other stuff. Pretty interesting thread http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=958990
cageymaru
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Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes – Modders Figured Out Ways To Let You Play As Hideo Kojima
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/metal...s-to-let-you-play-as-hideo-kojima/#more-72703
Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes – Modders Unlocked The Framerate & Wider Field Of View Settings
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/metal...d-the-framerate-wider-field-of-view-settings/
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/metal...s-to-let-you-play-as-hideo-kojima/#more-72703
Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes – Modders Unlocked The Framerate & Wider Field Of View Settings
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/metal...d-the-framerate-wider-field-of-view-settings/