Bethesda: Consoles to be Skyrim lead platform, aiming for "Really Accessible"

OMG. The Mass Effect field is uncontrollably expanding and has now consumed Bethesda's development team. Soon, everything will be accessible!?!?! to 5 year olds. Get them while they are young :)
 
Accessibility, Consolitis, etc it's all the same... they're removing the elements which require the user to think.

Something as simple as figuring out where a bullet is coming from is now being told to the player with indicators. Wouldn't want the player to have to figure that one out... no way--that might hurt their brain. See that glowy thing on the wall? Use that!... when you get there, in case you're confused, we'll show you what the "use" button is again. Pretty soon games will be touting a new feature "auto use!" Now you no longer have to remember (let alone PRESS!!!) that annoying "Use" button!! Tired of missing your headshots? Turn auto-headshot on to feel REALLY PWNZ0R!!!

The video game industry is going to be responsible for the future that is Idiocracy.
 
chockomonkey said:
Accessibility, Consolitis, etc it's all the same... they're removing the elements which require the user to think.

Something as simple as figuring out where a bullet is coming from is now being told to the player with indicators. Wouldn't want the player to have to figure that one out... no way--that might hurt their brain.

The video game industry is going to be responsible for the future that is Idiocracy.
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If they have to do this it's a shame they can't at least make it where if someone wants to play on super easy difficulty they can get their hands held for them like what you're talking about here but then the rest of us ought to be able to crank the difficulty and get rid of this kind of rubbish.

In other words: Everyone wins and gets what they want.

Ah well, that's what mods are for.
 
chockomonkey said:
Accessibility, Consolitis, etc it's all the same... they're removing the elements which require the user to think.

Something as simple as figuring out where a bullet is coming from is now being told to the player with indicators. Wouldn't want the player to have to figure that one out... no way--that might hurt their brain. See that glowy thing on the wall? Use that!... when you get there, in case you're confused, we'll show you what the "use" button is again. Pretty soon games will be touting a new feature "auto use!" Now you no longer have to remember (let alone PRESS!!!) that annoying "Use" button!! Tired of missing your headshots? Turn auto-headshot on to feel REALLY PWNZ0R!!!

The video game industry is going to be responsible for the future that is Idiocracy.
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Sorry dude, but bullet indicators are a GOOD thing. I dunno about you but I sure as hell don't find dudes getting behind me and shooting me in the back repeatedly with no indication of where they're are to be overly fun. Sure what basically amounts to a "he's right behind you dumbass" sign is over kill, but there should be some indication of where the bullet is coming from. Also you're exaggerating, greatly. I don't wear rose tinted glasses while looking at the past. I refuse to suffer from the disease called nostalgia. Some old games were better due to their complexity, others were just victims of poor game design (or in the case of some D&D based games victims of trying to implement a rule set that had no place in video games without modifications). And I'm not going to get into the "hardness" argument again, but yeah I don't agree that old games were better because they were harder either.
 
Haven't bullet indicators been around since.. forever? Unless I'm imagining things Half Life 1 and TFC had them. Given they're from the same engine but I logged more hours in those two games than any other from the era. Sure Doom/Quake/Descent didn't have them but that seemed more like a technical limitation (transparent overlays) of the time.

To a certain extent I agree with the annoying popups on every usable button in the game, but at the same time I've played some games with godawful buttons. Blended in with other decor on the walls, in a shadow, out of view of the camera (RPGS are mainly an offender of this), behind boxes, or just straight up not obvious (doesn't look like a button at all).

The only thing I can really think of that irks me in a recent game is BC2 where it puts in glowing "RELOAD" text in the middle of the screen when your ammo gets low. The whole point of an ammo indicator is so the player can decide when you reload on their own, not when the game deems necessary.
 
Fail said:
Fast travel was optional though. . . . .

So funny how people pile on something that is OPTIONAL, the word optional, is that you have a choice between doing it or not doing it.

The arguments on here sometimes are simply breathtaking exercises in lack of common sense.
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Yep, kinda like how combat is optional. It's in the game, but you could really just run around it.

The lack of common sense exists where people say to simply not use something that the game is DESIGNED AROUND.

Quake 3: "Just don't use bunnyhopping and circle strafing! Hurr durr!"

UT: "Just don't use dodge jumps! Hurr durr!"

The Witcher 2: "Just don't use the roll! Hurr durr!"

TES: "Just don't use fast travel! Hurr durr!"
 
Soggy_Popcorn said:
Yep, kinda like how combat is optional. It's in the game, but you could really just run around it.

The lack of common sense exists where people say to simply not use something that the game is DESIGNED AROUND.

Quake 3: "Just don't use bunnyhopping and circle strafing! Hurr durr!"

UT: "Just don't use dodge jumps! Hurr durr!"

The Witcher 2: "Just don't use the roll! Hurr durr!"

TES: "Just don't use fast travel! Hurr durr!"
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Yes because using something you don't like make so much bloody sense. Combat is NOT optional if you want to beat the game. Fast Travel is. It isn't remotely required one single time. It is 100% optional and if someone does not like it they simply do not have to use it. I don't get what is so fucking hard to understand about that.
 
Oblivion was already massively watered down for the console crowd. I expected as much for TESV. The only thing I'm worried about is the UI and controls. Both can be fixed with mods, of course.

Also, I agree with the earlier post which mentioned constellations. Why the fuck should I have to look at some constellation to see my stats?
 
J W said:
he only thing I'm worried about is the UI and controls. Both can be fixed with mods, of course.
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Unlikely. The whole damn interface is this stupid flashy 3d thing that will be extremely difficult to change. It's like it was written by one of those morons who design flash sites with the assumption that everyone is there to look at their stupid menu transitions.
 
This game actually looks much better then Oblivion. Oblivion had dull combat, bad leveling and some really wonky stats. Skyrim's stats seem to make much better sense in a video game and honestly people won't need to micro manage stats anymore since the old leveling system is done away with.

I think the new interface looks really sleek and nice and honestly I don't even plan to mod it at all until I've played it a ton.

Oblivion was a good but clunky game with some weird design choices and some annoying ones as well but honestly overall it was a good game. Skyrim just seems deeper then Oblivion.
 
^^^ Skyrim is going to be 8934759823475 times better than Oblivion was.

As long as the menu isn't like this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aBK8eV0Rus"]YouTube - ‪Fable 3 - Cool Options Menu‬‏[/ame]

Seriously--who thought it was a good idea to make the menu take 3 times as long to navigate?
 
chockomonkey said:
Accessibility, Consolitis, etc it's all the same... they're removing the elements which require the user to think.

Something as simple as figuring out where a bullet is coming from is now being told to the player with indicators. Wouldn't want the player to have to figure that one out... no way--that might hurt their brain. See that glowy thing on the wall? Use that!... when you get there, in case you're confused, we'll show you what the "use" button is again. Pretty soon games will be touting a new feature "auto use!" Now you no longer have to remember (let alone PRESS!!!) that annoying "Use" button!! Tired of missing your headshots? Turn auto-headshot on to feel REALLY PWNZ0R!!!

The video game industry is going to be responsible for the future that is Idiocracy.
Click to expand...

The goal most people have when playing a game is to have fun. There is a level where something gets so hard it is frustrating and so easy it is no fun. Oblivion had many more problems on the frustrating side, which is why they are making the game more accessible by changing the leveling system, menus, etc. You are confusing "thinking" with "having to read a guide to figure out what to do."

I highly doubt that humanity is going to suffer because a game developer put a tutorial hint up. :rolleyes:
 
At this point I agree that if you can't figure out how to do something in game it is bad game design. It is supposed to be an immersive experience, particularly in an RPG. If my character in the game world can't figure out to do something without me jumping on Wikipedia or reading a manual it was poorly implemented, IMO.

That being said, on the "if you don't like X feature, don't use it" is somewhat valid in SP, but not at all in MP. If you can't bunnyhop, you can't compete when it is allowed. Fast travel is something altogether different, and as someone with a job and a commute, I appreciate not having to hoof it 5-10 minutes across terrain when I don't feel like it. When first playing a game it is enjoyable and immersive, but at a certain point it gets tiring.
 
Katalysis said:
The goal most people have when playing a game is to have fun. There is a level where something gets so hard it is frustrating and so easy it is no fun. Oblivion had many more problems on the frustrating side, which is why they are making the game more accessible by changing the leveling system, menus, etc. You are confusing "thinking" with "having to read a guide to figure out what to do."

I highly doubt that humanity is going to suffer because a game developer put a tutorial hint up. :rolleyes:
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unfortunately all too often, sarcasm is completely missed when not used vocally = /
 
30 hours for the main quest, apparently...200-300 more for sidequests. Bethesda is also saying that the developers are trying to make the land of Skyrim feel as different and alien as Morrowind did, with only the beginning of the game looking and feeling familiar in terms of enivronment...

It will probably be a really good open-world action-adventure game...it's just a shame that the RPG elements are being stripped so much. If Bethesda just dropped "The Elder Scrolls" from the title, I think most people would be happier about the direction Skyrim is going in.
 
What is accessible? Putting a CD in the drive? I dont get it. I mean how much more accessible do you need with all the mods there engines can create.
 
Plague_Injected said:
30 hours for the main quest, apparently...200-300 more for sidequests. Bethesda is also saying that the developers are trying to make the land of Skyrim feel as different and alien as Morrowind did, with only the beginning of the game looking and feeling familiar in terms of enivronment...

It will probably be a really good open-world action-adventure game...it's just a shame that the RPG elements are being stripped so much. If Bethesda just dropped "The Elder Scrolls" from the title, I think most people would be happier about the direction Skyrim is going in.
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It's still an RPG just as much as Oblivion or Fallout 3 were. Just seems like instead of creating the character on paper when you start you simply pick a Race and Gender and the rest on how your character develops depends on what you do. I actually like that decision a lot since I won't have to worry about what to specialize in anymore and won't have to micromanage stats which was always one of the biggest pain's in the Elder Scrolls games.
 
So far, other than a UI overhaul, I will want to mod the character development.

From what I saw in a preview, it looks like character development is going to be as simple as picking one of three stones every once in awhile. "Oh this time i want the mage stone"

meh

edit: i understand this is the same as saying "oh this level up I want the mage stats"... but there there should be multiple mage stats, like in oblivion.. mana regen, total mana, spell power, etc from which to choose.
 
chockomonkey said:
So far, other than a UI overhaul, I will want to mod the character development.

From what I saw in a preview, it looks like character development is going to be as simple as picking one of three stones every once in awhile. "Oh this time i want the mage stone"

meh

edit: i understand this is the same as saying "oh this level up I want the mage stats"... but there there should be multiple mage stats, like in oblivion.. mana regen, total mana, spell power, etc from which to choose.
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That's not how the system works. Those stones are just temporary XP bonuses to certain stats.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/04/18/skyrim-skills/
 
I actually like the system of being able to grow your character as the game progresses. It makes more sense and it doesn't lock me into something 20+ hours into the game that I may not like, that I was forced to choose after only playing the game for 5 minutes.
 
TwistedAegis said:
I actually like the system of being able to grow your character as the game progresses. It makes more sense and it doesn't lock me into something 20+ hours into the game that I may not like, that I was forced to choose after only playing the game for 5 minutes.
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I completely agree, just don't want it dumbed down to "Mage stat, Warrior Stat, Rogue Stat" or w/e
 
Derangel said:
Yes because using something you don't like make so much bloody sense. Combat is NOT optional if you want to beat the game. Fast Travel is. It isn't remotely required one single time. It is 100% optional and if someone does not like it they simply do not have to use it. I don't get what is so fucking hard to understand about that.
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Glad to see you ignored every ounce of the comparisons I made.

Quake is designed around bunnyhopping and circlestrafing. UT2004 was designed around dodge jumping. These gameplay elements were extraneous, unnecessary, and RETARDED. You weren't forced to use them, but you would die if you didn't. Every single time. You would lose every single round, guaranteed.

In the same sense, Oblivion, its environment, and its quests were all designed around fast travel, and the experience was gruelingly half-assed if you didn't use it. Whereas Morrowind had a balance.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that.
 
Soggy_Popcorn said:
Glad to see you ignored every ounce of the comparisons I made.

Quake is designed around bunnyhopping and circlestrafing. UT2004 was designed around dodge jumping. These gameplay elements were extraneous, unnecessary, and RETARDED. You weren't forced to use them, but you would die if you didn't. Every single time. You would lose every single round, guaranteed.

In the same sense, Oblivion, its environment, and its quests were all designed around fast travel, and the experience was gruelingly half-assed if you didn't use it. Whereas Morrowind had a balance.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that.
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No those games were designed around a multiplayer experience. What you are talking about are strategies designed by players the ended up being required to win. If you don't use them you will lose.

In Oblivion you don't have to fast travel to do a single fucking thing. It is not required to beat the game nor is it required to have fun so it is OPTIONAL. Learn what word means. And for your information Elder Scrolls games are designed around freedom and options, not fast travel. My point still stands: Don't like it don't use it. You're not forced to use it. If you don't find exploring fun well that's your own damn problem. Morrowind had stretches where it could feel extremely tedious and boring to travel from one place to the next as well.
 
People always bring up the fast travel comparison between Morrowind and Oblivion as a negative for Oblivion but lets look at the following -

1) What specific decisions related to quest design or map layout in Morrowind compared to Oblivion was actually done to better fit the lack of fast travel?

2) Why were mods which added more Silt strider lines, teleport rings, and mark/recall slots so popular for Morrowind? Conversely as far as I know mods for Oblivion providing alternatives to "fast travel" are considerably less popular.

3) How does having to repeat travel along roads you've been to definitively a better experience? Were running through cliff racer swarms really that enjoyable?

4) Why does it bother "hard core" players that those that do not wish to play that intensely can have an "easier" experience in a single player game?
 
Derangel said:
No those games were designed around a multiplayer experience. What you are talking about are strategies designed by players the ended up being required to win. If you don't use them you will lose.

In Oblivion you don't have to fast travel to do a single fucking thing. It is not required to beat the game nor is it required to have fun so it is OPTIONAL. Learn what word means. And for your information Elder Scrolls games are designed around freedom and options, not fast travel. My point still stands: Don't like it don't use it. You're not forced to use it. If you don't find exploring fun well that's your own damn problem. Morrowind had stretches where it could feel extremely tedious and boring to travel from one place to the next as well.
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You still don't get it. It's not about whether you're competing. It's not about whether you're FORCED to do it or not. It is OPTIONAL to bunnyhop and it's OPTIONAL to fast travel.

But the point is, both Quake and Oblivion are NOT FUN when you don't use them.

Morrowind had fascinating and varied environments, with strategically (and convincingly) placed diversions along essential routes to entertain you to no end. And that's if you didn't choose to use the OPTIONAL silt striders or mages guilds or whatever. The difference with Oblivion was that the designers EXPECTED you to use fast travel for everything, so hoofing it everywhere was pointless and mind numbing.

Edit: this is also a good response to the post above mine. Morrowind made it worth it to explore. Oblivion's "exploration" was a tedious chore.
 
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Soggy_Popcorn said:
You still don't get it. It's not about whether you're competing. It's not about whether you're FORCED to do it or not. It is OPTIONAL to bunnyhop and it's OPTIONAL to fast travel.

But the point is, both Quake and Oblivion are NOT FUN when you don't use them.

Morrowind had fascinating and varied environments, with strategically (and convincingly) placed diversions along essential routes to entertain you to no end. And that's if you didn't choose to use the OPTIONAL silt striders or mages guilds or whatever. The difference with Oblivion was that the designers EXPECTED you to use fast travel for everything, so hoofing it everywhere was pointless and mind numbing.

Edit: this is also a good response to the post above mine. Morrowind made it worth it to explore. Oblivion's "exploration" was a tedious chore.
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Funny because I ENJOYED the "pointless" exploration at times in Oblivon. Though there were times when I just wanted to get on with it, same with Morrowind. Morrowind was a bit more worth it to explore, but Oblivion still had areas to find and look through. Still though it's not required in the game at all. Period. End of story. There is nothing at all you can say to change that little fact. Whether or not you liked exploring doesn't change that. The problem is you're trying to force your opinion into a fact, but it doesn't work that way. In Quake you are required to bunnyhop to do well and to actually win so in essence yes you have to do it if you want to win. You're splitting hairs otherwise and it's totally pointless to continue this if you're going to pull that shit.

So again: If you don't like it don't use. If you aren't having fun not using it and hate using it why the fuck are you playing the game?
 
Derangel said:
Funny because I ENJOYED the "pointless" exploration at times in Oblivon. Though there were times when I just wanted to get on with it, same with Morrowind. Morrowind was a bit more worth it to explore, but Oblivion still had areas to find and look through. Still though it's not required in the game at all. Period. End of story. There is nothing at all you can say to change that little fact. Whether or not you liked exploring doesn't change that. The problem is you're trying to force your opinion into a fact, but it doesn't work that way. In Quake you are required to bunnyhop to do well and to actually win so in essence yes you have to do it if you want to win. You're splitting hairs otherwise and it's totally pointless to continue this if you're going to pull that shit.

So again: If you don't like it don't use. If you aren't having fun not using it and hate using it why the fuck are you playing the game?
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Gotta agree with this response.

As long as the main path offers great gameplay, visuals and a decent story, if you're not the explorer type, nothing is stopping you from just going straight through the main path of the game... though that seems pointless, because if you're someone who plays games in this genre, I'd think you'd want to explore.

But, if you want to hoof-it everywhere, there seems to be more than enough in Skyrim to actually find and do, unlike a lot of Oblivion, unfortunately, so I'd say that Skyrim is going to crush Oblivion into dust in a variety of ways.

I don't understand why this is such a big damn issue in the first place. There are options in many games. If you don't like fast travel, don't use it; if you do, then use it... what's the friggin' problem?

Skyrim offers options, and at least there are things to find and do in the world, where as Oblivion definitely was a bit empty compared to Skyrim.
 
Morrowind didn't need fast travel - it had the Boots of Blinding Speed. Get 50% magic resist to cancel out the blinding effect and equip them. Proceed to enjoy running across the entire island in under 5 minutes. Fortify your acrobatics for additional hilarity - or just use levitate to go around everything.

I felt that there were plenty of extra dungeons outside of the main storyline to explore in Oblivion. Nevermind that most of them were copy/pasted, but with mods most of them were turned into high level vampire lairs or elf encampments. I never did explore all of them. Then there was the whole nirnroot thing for people that were OCD with their exploration.

Only reason I'm not playing Oblivion now is the crashes and broken combat system (can kite anything to infinity). Even with a mod that disables backstepping it's too easy to avoid melee or break combat with 1 second paralyze / fatigue spells.
 
I must admit that vanilla Oblivion was a bit bland in it's landscape but I did truely think they did a much better job in Fallout 3, I loved that game to death and pretty much explored the entire map. Collecting all the Bobbleheads was definitely one of the best things in the game. I'm sure Skyrim will be very interesting as well so honestly I really just can't wait to play it, but of course I must wait 5 more months like everyone else.
 
As long as they release the Construction Set, it's all good. Bethesda is best at making game worlds. Their players are best at making games out of them.

Heavily-modded Oblivion is the best RPG of all time. Heavily-modded Morrowind was pretty good, but the tools at the time for managing mods were less sophisticated, so it was harder to deal with conflicts and get everything working. The community has gotten better at dealing with that stuff, so I expect that with a little time modded Skyrim will trump modded Oblivion.

When Skyrim comes out I'm sure I'll do the same thing I did with Oblivion, Morrowind and Fallout 3 -- take a quick spin through the MQ to get to know what the game is like, then shelve it for a couple of years and pick it back up when the mods get good.
 
Derangel said:
Funny because I ENJOYED the "pointless" exploration at times in Oblivon. Though there were times when I just wanted to get on with it, same with Morrowind. Morrowind was a bit more worth it to explore, but Oblivion still had areas to find and look through. Still though it's not required in the game at all. Period. End of story. There is nothing at all you can say to change that little fact. Whether or not you liked exploring doesn't change that. The problem is you're trying to force your opinion into a fact, but it doesn't work that way. In Quake you are required to bunnyhop to do well and to actually win so in essence yes you have to do it if you want to win. You're splitting hairs otherwise and it's totally pointless to continue this if you're going to pull that shit.

So again: If you don't like it don't use. If you aren't having fun not using it and hate using it why the fuck are you playing the game?
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People like you make me sad. I AGREED with you that neither mechanic is REQUIRED to play and explained in a CIVIL manner why the games are designed with the mechanics in mind.

But apparently no volume of watered down reasoning and explanation will penetrate your petrified boulder of a skull. Goodbye.
 
Soggy_Popcorn said:
People like you make me sad. I AGREED with you that neither mechanic is REQUIRED to play and explained in a CIVIL manner why the games are designed with the mechanics in mind.

But apparently no volume of watered down reasoning and explanation will penetrate your petrified boulder of a skull. Goodbye.
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There was very little in your posts that could be identified as "civil".

Fast-travel was only optional for places you'd already discovered. You had to leg it or horse it to discover the places in the first place.

There are other aspects of Skyrim that are more worthy of your rage than fast-travel.
 
Katalysis said:
The goal most people have when playing a game is to have fun. There is a level where something gets so hard it is frustrating and so easy it is no fun. Oblivion had many more problems on the frustrating side, which is why they are making the game more accessible by changing the leveling system, menus, etc. You are confusing "thinking" with "having to read a guide to figure out what to do."
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If you needed a guide to figure out what to do in Oblivion then RPGs may not be for you. The only frustrating problems it had were either due to bugs or the design decisions made to make it more accessible in the first place (crap UI, creature leveling, etc.).
 
Soggy_Popcorn said:
People like you make me sad. I AGREED with you that neither mechanic is REQUIRED to play and explained in a CIVIL manner why the games are designed with the mechanics in mind.

But apparently no volume of watered down reasoning and explanation will penetrate your petrified boulder of a skull. Goodbye.
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No you tried to force your opinion to be a fact. Fact is you have no clue what the game was designed around and instead created some reasoning to justify your dislike of a single feature. You have yet to say one single word that justifies your initial post that basically insulted anyone that told people not to use the feature if they didn't like it. Instead you have been repeating your OPINION every damn post and trying to use it as a valid fact to counter that. It doesn't work that way.
 
I just can't believe I see so much BS over an optional feature that can be completely avoided. (Fast travel.)

Get over it! Don't like it? Don't use it. Problem solved.
 
Q-BZ said:
I just can't believe I see so much BS over an optional feature that can be completely avoided. (Fast travel.)

Get over it! Don't like it? Don't use it. Problem solved.
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This isn't the point though... they're no longer discussing if it is optional, they've agreed on that... we all agree on that.

Derangel said:
No you tried to force your opinion to be a fact. Fact is you have no clue what the game was designed around and instead created some reasoning to justify your dislike of a single feature. You have yet to say one single word that justifies your initial post that basically insulted anyone that told people not to use the feature if they didn't like it. Instead you have been repeating your OPINION every damn post and trying to use it as a valid fact to counter that. It doesn't work that way.
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What Derangel can't seem to understand is that the implementation of a fast travel system impacted their decisions when it came to level and quest design. There were many more quests which had you run back and forth to places just to have a quick conversation because they knew you could fast-travel between the two locations. If someone chose not to use fast travel, these quests became really lame.

I can only assume that their crappy level design is also a result of this. There is rarely any reward for exploration, so doing much of it soon gets monotonous.
 
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