Beginner's Setup

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jbltecnicspro

[H]F Junkie
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Aug 18, 2006
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Good evening everyone,

My wife and I were wanting to get into photography. We like taking pictures, but want to take the plunge into getting a camera and a possible Windows XP rig with an older version of Photoshop to do some light editing. The reason for the eclectic rig is the monitor in my signature - the Sony Artisan - whose self-calibration software won't work with anything other than XP (not even virtual XP will work with it).

So - what's a good camera to for newbies? I haven't discussed a price range the missus yet, so I may need to do that first.

Also - what's a decent version of Photoshop that will work with Windows XP? Thanks!

One thing to emphasize here is that we're not looking to become photo-pro's. This is for our own hobby and for pictures around the house and maybe for friends and our church. We're not looking to get any money out of this. Thanks!
 
jbltecnicspro said:
One thing to emphasize here is that we're not looking to become photo-pro's. This is for our own hobby and for pictures around the house and maybe for friends and our church. We're not looking to get any money out of this. Thanks!
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This is exactly what I said when I got into photography. Some +$10,000 later... I continue to say the same thing. :eek:

Set your budget bud.

Photoshop Lightroom is what you will want, but before you even get into software...

What exactly are you looking to get? Pictures around the house, friends, and church can be taken with anything from a cell phone, basic to advance P&S all the way down to RED, and everything else in between. Are you looking for interchangeable lens system? How advance of a system do you want/need?

There isn't a one camera that's good for a newbie. It all depends on your needs and what you plan to do with it. What are you shooting with now? What type of system are you thinking about?
 
Here are some basic things that I can offer you, which is more about I guess 'wisdom' to go along with your questions. This question gets asked a lot.

1.) Do you want to actually learn? This might sound like a stupid question, but there is a MASSIVE misconception that having a nice camera will all of a sudden make you take nice pictures. If you've ever followed an uncle Bob around (you know the guy that can afford the $5k professional camera) it doesn't necessarily mean you'll get good stuff on the other end (hell, I'll tell you right now I moved pretty quick into an expensive professional camera long before I probably should have. I have my share of worthless duds). So, if you're not willing to learn things like the exposure triangle, basic ideas about composition, and training your eyes to see light you will be highly limited in terms of where you want to go.

Yes, you can have photography still be a hobby, not want to go pro, and not want to get paid for it and still do what I said above. Photography is a skill and an art. A good analogy is comparing it to any other art form. It's easy to see that painting takes skill, because most people can't paint or draw. The same could be said for musical instruments. The reason why people think photography is easy is because at it's most basic, you push a button and you get a result. For some reason unlike painting something poorly, or playing music poorly, poor photography is ignored (except by us whiny pros). Granted, there is the democratization of photography (as in everyone has a minimum of a cellphone camera these days), but that's another thing entirely.

Anyway: are you willing to learn (and of course this also means like any other art, practice)? If not, you are going to hit a huge limitation. (I also don't know how you'll figure out how to use Lightroom/Photoshop/etc without learning something...)



2.) What other constraints do you have? Photography and cameras are a big industry. There are a huge amount of niche manufactures that cater to all sorts of demographics. You could buy a full sized dSLR, all the way to a tiny point and shoot. You could buy a prosumer super zoom camera (with lens attached), or you could buy any number of detachable lens systems.

Do you need versatility? (interchangeable lenses, big after market [lots of accessories], external flash units)
Do you care about size/weight? (this will have trade offs in multiple areas, generally heavier cameras will have higher resolutions, bigger sensors, faster shutters, more controls - but these things are changing rapidly)
Do you care about cost? (you do, trust me, I could spend $100k in photo gear at the drop of hat, had I the resources)

If you ask really general questions like: "what should I buy?" you're going to hear a lot of answers that relate to the responders preferences. If you have preferences, you need to make them known, otherwise you might get a camera you really don't enjoy using. It doesn't mean you'll get suggested a bad camera, but like all artistic tools there is a great deal of preference in this sort of stuff. I'm not sure if you play guitar, but guitars as example have a wide array of choice.

Gibson or a Fender? Solid State Amp or Tube Amp? 100 watt monster or 5w pico box? Buffered bypass or true bypass? Analog or digital signal chain? This is a super truncated list, really for each of those binary questions, there is a bunch of options (except the bypass and amp ones).

Photography has a lot of the same nuances. There is a huge degree of choice and there isn't a 'wrong' decision, but rather which is going to fit for you. I get that you may not know all of these things, that isn't the point, but you can tell us if you have certain requirements.



3.) Do you need 2 cameras or want two cameras? Is one of you more of a keen photographer? That's a less important question, but something to consider. It might save you hassle to plan to buy two if you know you're both going to go to places and want to shoot stuff. It will also make it so you can enjoy the hobby together and compare work afterwards.

It also might also mean that your 'his' and 'hers' camera might have different requirements. Not to be sexist, but I find a lot more women tend to want something light and compact. More dudes are okay with big and bulky. (Although you'll find a lot of dudes moving to more compact systems like Fuji's, u4/3, etc, including a good friend of mine).

There are of course tradeoffs with small vs big beyond just size, but it is all things to consider.


===


Finally, some general advice:
1.) I would highly recommend buying used. There are people still using cameras and lenses from the 70's or even before. So long as whatever you get isn't abused, you may as well get a discount. The Fred Miranda forums are reputable, as is B&H, Adorama, and KEH. If you're savvy, you can also buy from eBay or CL, but then you have to deal with the usual possible issues.

2.) Practice practice practice. Hobbiest or professional, you'll only get good if you put in the time. It will help you a lot of you're passionate and you really love it and you desire to get better. Once again an expensive camera won't help you get there. Watch "Pro Photographer, Cheap Camera" Challenge on Youtube by DigitalRev to hammer this point in. They get various pros to use terrible, cheap, or otherwise crappy cameras, and the results the pros still get is stunning. You don't need something crazy expensive to take good pictures, you just have to have knowledge.

3.) Learn from as many people as you can. There are tons of free resources to help you get better at anything these days with the internet. There is a wealth of information. From pros that give advice tips, to Youtube videos, and massive blog posts. If you want resources, ask for them in here and I'm sure plenty of us can dump information on you. If you have a photographer friend that's good that can teach you things, take that opportunity.

4.) Have fun. Yeah photography can be serious, but if you don't every enjoy it, you won't want to do it. Everyone gets burned out, take breaks and come back to it.

5.) Challenge yourself and grow. Shoot things you've never shot before. Go places you haven't before. Try things you haven't before.
 
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^^^^^^^

I dont think you could get a better list of questions to really mull over than this.

Really think about what you need and what you wish to accomplish before you answer any questions because what you answer will really determine what people think will help you achieve those goals the best.
 
I will mull those questions over big time. I thank you all for your responses. I'll bump the thread once I get more specific questions formulated.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I will mull those questions over big time. I thank you all for your responses. I'll bump the thread once I get more specific questions formulated.
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Well, hopefully it won't also deter you from shooting. Just hear the "what should I buy?" question a lot, and really no one can tell you that.

If you have a friend that has cameras you can borrow, I might suggest that as well. It might at least familiarize yourself with things you like and things you don't. Go to a Samy's camera (or other local big camera store) and pickup a bunch of cameras. See how they feel in your hand.

Some ones to check out would be:
Mirrorless cameras:
Fuji's line of cameras (EM-2, x100s/x100t, xPro-1, XT-1)
Olympus's line of u4/3 cameras. (Pen series etc)
Panasonic's line of u4/3 cameras. (Lumix GH3, GH4, etc)
Sony's line of cameras (Alpha series. A7/A7s, a6000, a5100)

dSLRs
Canon: T3, T5, T5i.
If you have more cash then you can move into semi-pro/pro bodies: 60D, 70D, 7D2, 6D
Nikon: D3300, D5300
If you have more cash then you can move into semi-pro/pro bodies: D7100, D600


Everything I listed is an interchangeable lens system (other than the x100s/x100t). I also didn't list anything in the pure point and shoot category. I or someone else can if you decide that is the route you want to go.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Well, hopefully it won't also deter you from shooting. Just hear the "what should I buy?" question a lot, and really no one can tell you that.

If you have a friend that has cameras you can borrow, I might suggest that as well. It might at least familiarize yourself with things you like and things you don't. Go to a Samy's camera (or other local big camera store) and pickup a bunch of cameras. See how they feel in your hand.

Some ones to check out would be:
Mirrorless cameras:
Fuji's line of cameras (EM-2, x100s/x100t, xPro-1, XT-1)
Olympus's line of u4/3 cameras. (Pen series etc)
Panasonic's line of u4/3 cameras. (Lumix GH3, GH4, etc)
Sony's line of cameras (Alpha series. A7/A7s, a6000, a5100)

dSLRs
Canon: T3, T5, T5i.
If you have more cash then you can move into semi-pro/pro bodies: 60D, 70D, 7D2, 6D
Nikon: D3300, D5300
If you have more cash then you can move into semi-pro/pro bodies: D7100, D600


Everything I listed is an interchangeable lens system (other than the x100s/x100t). I also didn't list anything in the pure point and shoot category. I or someone else can if you decide that is the route you want to go.
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I have some good friends whose relatives own a professional photo studio. So I'll definitely see if they have some cheaper gear that they wouldn't mind lending me. I also understand what you mean by practice. In full disclosure, I have a degree in viola performance, so I know a thing or two about practicing. ;) I really appreciate all your help and advice.
 
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