ATI to counter the 6800GT!!!

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juniormlc

Limp Gawd
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Link to story at http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040716055607.html

"ATI Technologies faced strong competition when NVIDIA Corporation unveiled its GeForce 6800 GT graphics chip earlier this year, but the Markham, Ontario-based graphics company reportedly preps a counter-attack with a new product based on the RADEON X800 XT micro-architecture.

A report over China-based web-site GZeasy.com claims that the new graphics chip from ATI will be called RADEON X800 GT and will be a down-clocked RADEON X800 XT graphics processor with 16 rendering pipelines. The so-called RADEON X800 GT visual processing unit will function at 425MHz and will carry 256MB of GDDR3 memory clocked at 900MHz onboard. Initially the new RADEON X800 product will be offered for systems with AGP 8x port.

Some sources close to ATI expressed doubts that ATI would launch a part with “GT” brand-name.

Earlier ATI offered only two graphics options for the high-end market: ATI RADEON X800 PRO and ATI RADEON X800 XT with 12 and 16 pixel pipelines respectively. While the high-end RADEON X800 XT delivers performance in-line with competing GeForce 6800 Ultra, the RADEON X800 PRO was not as fast as the rivaling GeForce 6800 GT in quite some cases. To oppose NVIDIA’s “GT” part ATI might add a new SKU into its plans.

An ATI Technologies spokesperson in Oberhaching, Germany, declined to comment on the report.

Earlier this month ATI unveiled RADEON X800 SE graphics product with cut-down specifications to target OEMs. The RADEON X800 SE is available only in PCI Express x16 flavour."
 
wow, interesting. I was hoping the prices would fall instead of cramming more unavailable products onto the market.
 
yeah, and it will be released when? Q4 2004? they can't even get their flagship product out there.

It's all about timing, and with people who have $400 burning a hole in their pocket. With Doom 3 coming out, this was a terrible time for ATI to foul this up. People are switching en masse to the GT because they don't want to wait.
 
Yeah, more choices is always good. But they could have atleast picked a new name. ;)
 
I don't think ATi would bother with another product line, they are already completely sold out of their first X800's anyways. You can see the huge push to sell the last of the 9800/pro's though, which it looks like ATi is trying to discontinue soon.

If anything I would think they would be delaying the release of the X800SE (8 pipes/regular DDR) because they can make that much more on the high-end boards as ATi and NVidia are easily selling them at above retail prices right now.
 
by quarter 4 we will see a revision of the 6800GT and most likley the 6xxxGT will be clocked at ultra speeds, and the ultra will be be even faster.

To late for ATI, this is what happend to nividia with the 5800FX, the card was supposed to be released one year earlier than the 9700pro was, but ended up being a year to late!
 
If I remember correctly, thats what NV did. The GT wasnt a planned card, but they got wind of how the X800 Pro performed, and so they decided to do something about it. As ATi did with the XT/PE. If rumors are true, the X800 Pro was supposed to go against the 6800U, but ATi didnt want to be outdone so it decided to make the XT/PE.

I dont know how some people can think this is a bad thing. More choices is always good, and if its out be Christmas, or for the "refresh" cycles its going to make things even more close, if thats possible.
 
Lol, dont be so sacastic nothing could be as bad as the 5800 (A Radeon 9700pro is competitive to a 5950 in my book, the 5800 is not even on the map)...

The high end X800XT still beats out the 6800Ultra in high res/AA/AF, sure the X800XT costs more but for some people its worth it.

The slightly lower than highest end X800pro does not seem to match well to the 6800GT, the GT wins the speed race in most situations there and it may save you $20+ or so. That is where a lot of GF4 users will be looking to upgrade to. It is a great bargain with 80 percent of what the highest end card can do, sort of like what the Celeron D is shaping up to be compared to the P4.

Since there is a rarity of chips, ATi seems to be pushing their X800XT and trying to limit quantities of X800Pro's. Makes perfect sense to me. Nvidia seems to want to flood the market with lowerspeed chips, perfectly fine way of doing it too.
 
fallguy said:
If I remember correctly, thats what NV did. The GT wasnt a planned card, but they got wind of how the X800 Pro performed, and so they decided to do something about it. As ATi did with the XT/PE. If rumors are true, the X800 Pro was supposed to go against the 6800U, but ATi didnt want to be outdone so it decided to make the XT/PE.

I dont know how some people can think this is a bad thing. More choices is always good, and if its out be Christmas, or for the "refresh" cycles its going to make things even more close, if thats possible.
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So true. In the end it really boils down to when will the price cutting stops and I personally hope later rather then sooner. It's all posturing and marketing. In the end they are intent on only one goal....to obtain our dollars....and as many as they can. I think nVidia scored several points with the GT and will continue to do so with their present mindset.
 
By the time this comes out, if it actually exists (lets not forget how reliable the source GZEASY (???) is), it will probably be too late to compete with the GT, namely for Doom3. Plus by then the 6800GT will have been out for awhile and it will be possible to drop the price.

ATI really does need a 16-pipe part at the $399 pricepoint though.
 
Quote from rage3d I thought was interesting lol.

Hmm a 425mhz 16 pipe card is hardly going to be faster than the pro, I mean my VIVO unlocked so it has 16 pipes at pro speeds, isn't hugely faster than a 12 pipe pro.

ATI would be better off releasing their PCIe XT in AGP form, I mean a 500/500 16 pipe card would easily beat the GT.
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Same site is now claiming Nvidia is gonna release the 6800LE to counter the 9800PRO, supported by this new name being found in the latest NV drivers and the speculation that it will be an 8x1 pipeline part.
 
Competition rocks!!!!!! Just need to find some money.....
 
I certainly hope so....vendors are already starting to price gouge on the 6800 GT. :rolleyes:
 
Well I've always been an ATi guy, and I just recently had bought the x800 Pro.. I saw benchmarks, returned it and jumped ship to Nvidia (BFG 6800 GT OC @ 428/1110), and I'm happy. ATi makes great cards and I'm sure this 'x800 GT' will be good.

Heres the deal... ATi is too late. The majority of us want our upgrade now and are doing it. By releasing this card later sure they'll sell some, but nothing like the 6800 GT bing going on now. Getting the x800 GT to 16 pipes is very smart.. but STILL none of the ATi cards support SM 3.0 or HDR lighting effects.

Why would I pay the same price for something that won't have all the goodies ready for future games ? Sounds ignorant to just buy ATi because you always have. Being a smart shopper, I'd think anyone would notice the difference and get the 6800 GT.

But to each his own... and for all you ATi users, you have good cards, but you'll miss out on some eye candy down the road. To my knowledge not many games will be supporting 3Dc.

just my 2 cents ...
 
theNoid said:
....
Heres the deal... ATi is too late. The majority of us want our upgrade now and are doing it. By releasing this card later sure they'll sell some, but nothing like the 6800 GT bing going on now. ....
.
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I disagree. The "majority" will be getting cards this holiday season. We sometimes forget that the cutting-edge types that hang around here are an extreme minority when it comes to sales, even of high-end stuff.

As for HDR, hasn't ATi supported HDR for over two years now? I ran HDR demo's on my 9700pro. I'm reserving judgment on sm3 until I see some benefits. Same with 3DC.

I expect to field a lot of "best graphics card?" questions from friends and family around October. Should be an interesting year, hardware-wise.
 
LabRat said:
As for HDR, hasn't ATi supported HDR for over two years now? I ran HDR demo's on my 9700pro. I'm reserving judgment on sm3 until I see some benefits. Same with 3DC.
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ATI's implementation of HDR isn't "true HDR", and its much lower efficiency and lower quality than Nvidia's implementation - which follows the OpenEXR standard by Industrial Light & Magic.
 
gee, just think.

with ATi's current production as far as shipping mass quantities to retailors, nVidia will probably already counter ATi's counter from nVidia's counter from ATi's counter and..........

errrrrr, what a minute? I think I might have one too many "counters" in there but you get the idea. ATi missed the boat with taking their sweet time by not delivery enough cards on time. so when the 6800 GT came out while "mostly" widely available, ATi started to scratch their heads and started thinking, "oh damn. we better release another wishfull product so we can attract some more potential customers..." :rolleyes:
 
This is going to come back and smack ATi in the face, I mean, the 6800GT's are for the most part available, if you don't care what brand and look good enough, and by the time the "X800GT" (they could've at least not ripped off of the name...) comes out, most enthusiasts will already have their card of choice for the next 2 years, and the GT will barely be any faster than the Pro. Not a smart move on ATi's part, if I were them, I'd just say "We lost this round, but instead of wasting money and time on a new series, we'll put it towards R&D for the next generation." That would be a smarter move, but I'm not going to complain about competition.
 
seems like a good idea. i really doubt they would use the GT suffix if they actually released a card like this though.
 
heyheyhey said:
Not a smart move on ATi's part, if I were them, I'd just say "We lost this round, but instead of wasting money and time on a new series, we'll put it towards R&D for the next generation." That would be a smarter move, but I'm not going to complain about competition.
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Yeah, I think they need to work on their next card, b/c when the go from 96bit to 128bit precision, they are going to lose some performance!! And if they're already pushing 500Mhz on the core now.... they're not going to be able to get much more speed. SO I'm pretty sure they will be in a bind. At least they should add SM3.0 at the same time, so at least some shaders will be faster than their older cards.
 
LabRat said:
I disagree. The "majority" will be getting cards this holiday season. We sometimes forget that the cutting-edge types that hang around here are an extreme minority when it comes to sales, even of high-end stuff.

As for HDR, hasn't ATi supported HDR for over two years now? I ran HDR demo's on my 9700pro. I'm reserving judgment on sm3 until I see some benefits. Same with 3DC.

I expect to field a lot of "best graphics card?" questions from friends and family around October. Should be an interesting year, hardware-wise.
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I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you there.
 
My presumption is that come fall the X800 Pro will be priced around $299, with there being an AGP version of the X800 XT at the $399 price point, and a 512MB version of the X800 XT PE at $499 (with maybe faster clocks). I doubt ATI has any plans to introduce another card anytime soon other than the new mainstream lineup and their fall refresh (as if they would call it X800 GT even :p).
 
tranCendenZ said:
ATI's implementation of HDR isn't "true HDR", and its much lower efficiency and lower quality than Nvidia's implementation - which follows the OpenEXR standard by Industrial Light & Magic.
Click to expand...

OK, back it up with proof (NOT an ILM page. That is like proving 3dMark is great by linking to a 3dMark press release! ;) ).

I'm interested. Why is the ILM format the "true" HDR? Why is ATi's implementation inferior? Can I see the difference? Is there an HDR demo I can run on my x800pro and my soon-to-arrive 6800gt (whenever the fucker gets back in stock, grumble grumble) and see the difference? Will ATi support other forms of HDR? Will nVidia? Inquiering minds want to know. The HDR demo's I've seen so far have been very impressive. It's a feature I'm really looking forward to.
 
LabRat said:
OK, back it up with proof (NOT an ILM page. That is like proving 3dMark is great by linking to a 3dMark press release! ;) ).

I'm interested. Why is the ILM format the "true" HDR? Why is ATi's implementation inferior? Can I see the difference? Is there an HDR demo I can run on my x800pro and my soon-to-arrive 6800gt (whenever the fucker gets back in stock, grumble grumble) and see the difference? Will ATi support other forms of HDR? Will nVidia? Inquiering minds want to know. The HDR demo's I've seen so far have been very impressive. It's a feature I'm really looking forward to.
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But but but.....Industrial Light & Magic SAID it's the standard! :p
 
LabRat said:
OK, back it up with proof (NOT an ILM page. That is like proving 3dMark is great by linking to a 3dMark press release! ;) ).

I'm interested. Why is the ILM format the "true" HDR? Why is ATi's implementation inferior? Can I see the difference? Is there an HDR demo I can run on my x800pro and my soon-to-arrive 6800gt (whenever the fucker gets back in stock, grumble grumble) and see the difference? Will ATi support other forms of HDR? Will nVidia? Inquiering minds want to know. The HDR demo's I've seen so far have been very impressive. It's a feature I'm really looking forward to.
Click to expand...

Did you say hdr demo?

http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/

I'd be curious to know as well what true hdr is as well. Technically we would need a projector that is capable of somewhere near a 50000:1 contrast ratio before we could physically see (or be blinded by) a difference in the rendering process. Another interesting tidbit, the x800 can run rthdribl 640x480 4xmultisample at about 120fps, last I saw the 6800u did it at about 70fps, if higher precision means lower performance with no visible IQ increase its pretty much worthless no me.

EDIT : I even found a snazzy article about some guys building a 50000:1 projector, sunglasses not included :cool:
 
101998 said:
Did you say hdr demo?

http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/

I'd be curious to know as well what true hdr is as well. Technically we would need a projector that is capable of somewhere near a 50000:1 contrast ratio before we could physically see (or be blinded by) a difference in the rendering process. Another interesting tidbit, the x800 can run rthdribl 640x480 4xmultisample at about 120fps, last I saw the 6800u did it at about 70fps, if higher precision means lower performance with no visible IQ increase its pretty much worthless no me.
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Thanks 101998!
 
Remember, Doom 3 comes out in about 2 weeks. Many people are going to buy that game, realize their current video card can't handle it, and go looking for something else. They aren't going to wait until Christmas to buy a new card. If ATi doesn't "get in the game" soon, they are going to be seriously hurting. They have absolutely nothing to counter the 6800nu at the $299 price point, and the 6800GT is a better buy at $399. At to make matters worse for ATi, the 6800GT is already going for under $350 (BB pre-order $299, Buy.com $330, provatange $335, etc...)

Can't really compare the results yet with rthdribl, since it doesn't even use the new HDR features on the 6800. From what I've read, using the new HDR is both higher quality and faster.
 
Either way, ATi missed the boat with the mid ranged series. They can release this x800GT and hope it makes up for sales during the holiday season.
 
Missed the boat? Do you know how many X800 PRO cards ATI have sold? Far more then 6800 GT:s ;).

It was like when the 5800 FX came and it was a failure. ATI hadn´t calculated on that and couldn´t meet the demand on 9700 PRO:s loosing very much money. A bit same here even in a much smaller scale. Many people got X800 PRO:s because they where available and the GT not.

And the demand on X800:s is still high so no disaster for ATI that´s for sure. They will get the money even if the tiny enthusiast crowd is more excited over the 6800 GT ;)
 
oqvist said:
And the demand on X800:s is still high so no disaster for ATI that´s for sure. They will get the money even if the tiny enthusiast crowd is more excited over the 6800 GT ;)
Click to expand...

i would hardly call the enthusiast crowd for this card a minority
 
I am pondering how the purchasers of x800pro would feel if ATI releases a card more powerful for the same or less money so soon.
 
LabRat said:
OK, back it up with proof (NOT an ILM page. That is like proving 3dMark is great by linking to a 3dMark press release! ;) ).

I'm interested. Why is the ILM format the "true" HDR? Why is ATi's implementation inferior? Can I see the difference? Is there an HDR demo I can run on my x800pro and my soon-to-arrive 6800gt (whenever the fucker gets back in stock, grumble grumble) and see the difference? Will ATi support other forms of HDR? Will nVidia? Inquiering minds want to know. The HDR demo's I've seen so far have been very impressive. It's a feature I'm really looking forward to.
Click to expand...


I personally scroll down quickly when I see a post from tranCendenZ or burninggrave01.. Too much fanboyism there.. Its like they are in everythread trying to stirr some poo poo
 
jacuzz1 said:
I am pondering how the purchasers of x800pro would feel if ATI releases a card more powerful for the same or less money so soon.
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They probably wouldn't care, since the majority of x800 pro buyers(not computer enthusiasts on computer websites) will not be upgrading their cards now, just as cards are barely on store shelves a month after the product launch
 
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