ATI Better Get Moving: WindowsXP-64 Beta Out Now

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Well I have been a loyal ATI fan since the first day the 9700-Pro came out, I left nVidia in the dust. Well I was thinking of upgrading my 2nd rig = Wifes system. Anyway was going to maybe try the Athlon64, was just waiting for Micro$haft to get moving on the XP-64bit edition.
Well they are moving faster than I thought;
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp
This is brand new as of today a free trial for an update to WindowsXP, which makes it WindowsXP-64

I hear alot of people complaining that ATI has ZERO drivers available for WindowsXP-64, where as nVidia has some up to date ones. And people are getting ready for the UT2004 demo due in 10days, that will also support 64-bit.

It would be very sad if ATI waits till the official release date of WindowsXP-64, which maye not be for several months. If the NV40 is equal to the R420 come March/April, and ATI still has no 64bit drivers. We'll see alot of people buying Socket939 Athlon64 cpu's, download the WindowsXP-64 bit patch, and switching back to nVidia for their 64bit drivers.
 
just use windowsXP-32 then till it comes out and stop your whining...besides the only adavantage windowsXP-64 has over windows-32 is it can run 64 bit programs...which I don't see many around anyways, so it really doesn't matter...

-MoOfAsA~
 
the only adavantage windowsXP-64 has over windows-32 is it can run 64 bit programs...which I don't see many around anyways, so it really doesn't matter...
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people are getting ready for the UT2004 demo due in 10days, that will also support 64-bit.
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Just because its a 64-bit system doesnt mean drivers aren't compatible. The 4.1's probably work fine.
 
well, If nvidia had to make different drivers for it, then ATI probably will need to aswell
 
Its a long long way off...

Is this XP-64 Beta 1 or Beta 4? I'd start worrying if XP hit RC1 or RC2 and ATi did not have a set of 64-bit drivers. If UT2004 uses 64-bit it is probably going to allow use of a specialized set of 64-bit instructions, not a 64-bit operating system. No way would they alienate the WindowsXP world (of which most people have just upgraded to) by requiring it.
 
Originally posted by ZenOps
Its a long long way off...

Is this XP-64 Beta 1 or Beta 4? I'd start worrying if XP hit RC1 or RC2 and ATi did not have a set of 64-bit drivers. If UT2004 uses 64-bit it is probably going to allow use of a specialized set of 64-bit instructions, not a 64-bit operating system. No way would they alienate the WindowsXP world (of which most people have just upgraded to) by requiring it.
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good points, so I really dont understand the 64bit thing altogther in regards to UT2004.
When Epic says it has special optimizations for the Athlon64, does that mean it will just use stuff found in the Athlon64 cpu, and allow the game to run faster because of it.
There has been benchmarks last year, that say the Ut2003/4 engine will gain approx 30% faster fps due to the 64bit code.
But does that mean you need WindowsXP-64, or just the Athlon64 running in either OS, like Win2k/XP ?
 
Originally posted by ZenOps
Its a long long way off...

Is this XP-64 Beta 1 or Beta 4? I'd start worrying if XP hit RC1 or RC2 and ATi did not have a set of 64-bit drivers. If UT2004 uses 64-bit it is probably going to allow use of a specialized set of 64-bit instructions, not a 64-bit operating system. No way would they alienate the WindowsXP world (of which most people have just upgraded to) by requiring it.
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It will probably be an alternative meaning you can get the 32-bit or 64-bit version. Odds are, the 64-bit version will run faster. Of course you could just run linux which has been 64-bit compatible for a long time. Of course NVIDIA wins in the non-windows driver market as well...
 
don't forget that 64-bit will use more ram than 32-bit. Your addresses, words, and everything else is longer (actually by a whole 32-bits). So I wouldn't use less than 1G of ram with it.

but of course, I really don't care either...since I don't have a 64bit system and won't in the near future.
 
so...64bit XP os will run 32bit apps just fine?..kinda like the A64 chip being 32bit compatible?...if so, then theoretically would ati's current driver work fine in 64bit XP so long as any games or what not held to 32bit code?
 
Honestly, I don't think there are going to be many 64-bit OS games out in the near future.

The 64-bit beta that Microsoft is realeasing today only works on Opterons, it will not work on Itaniums. It will never run on P4's Northwoods or Prescotts or Xeons (all of which are IA-32 processors)

Its really totally for the server market right now, for people who need something like a 256-processor Itanium for high speed database systems or real-time weather modelling or something like that.
 
Well considering that a floating point value can fit on a 64-bit register. I expect 64-bit games to gain a nice performance boost.
 
shit, i tried XP's service pack 2 beta. if the XP-64 beta is as buggy and unstable then NO WAY will it give a performance boost in upcoming 64-bit games (all 2 of them in 2004 :rolleyes: ). i will never beta any OS again.
 
WOW, lots of FUD in this thread, lets clear some of this up...

Originally posted by Moofasa~
just use windowsXP-32 then till it comes out and stop your whining...besides the only adavantage windowsXP-64 has over windows-32 is it can run 64 bit programs...which I don't see many around anyways, so it really doesn't matter...
-MoOfAsA~
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Actually there are lots of things WinXP-64 can do that are better. The first is performance. WinXP-64 will be faster than the current 32bit version. Second, all these Virus' going around wont work on a 64bit OS.

Originally posted by LoStMaTt
Just because its a 64-bit system doesnt mean drivers aren't compatible. The 4.1's probably work fine.
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You can only install 64bit drivers on a 64bit OS. The 32bit drivers out now wont work. WinXP-64 will have the basic drivers (similar to WinXP now), but for the best performance, venders will have to write new drivers.

Originally posted by MontyAC
I wouldn't worry abut ATI, there's no 64 bit games out. :D
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True there aren't any 64bit games out now. But ATI still needs to release a 64bit driver for WinXP-64 to enable the full performance of their video cards (even running 32bit games on a 64bit OS).

Originally posted by ThreeDee
so...64bit XP os will run 32bit apps just fine?..kinda like the A64 chip being 32bit compatible?...if so, then theoretically would ati's current driver work fine in 64bit XP so long as any games or what not held to 32bit code?
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As I said above, you can't load 32bit drivers on a 64bit OS.

Originally posted by ZenOps
Honestly, I don't think there are going to be many 64-bit OS games out in the near future.

The 64-bit beta that Microsoft is realeasing today only works on Opterons, it will not work on Itaniums. It will never run on P4's Northwoods or Prescotts or Xeons (all of which are IA-32 processors)

Its really totally for the server market right now, for people who need something like a 256-processor Itanium for high speed database systems or real-time weather modelling or something like that.
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Actually the WinXP-64 that MS released today works on Opterons, 64's, and FX CPU's from AMD (since they are all basically the same CPU). You are correct about Intel, they are out of luck until they release CPU's with their x86-64 extensions (Yamhill project). I also remember people saying the same argument about Win2k (that its for the Server market, etc), yet it is a good gaming OS too.
 
Originally posted by MontyAC
I wouldn't worry abut ATI, there's no 64 bit games out. :D
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Do you think there would ever be any if not a 64-bit OS would arrive :rolleyes:

Do you think we would have dx 9 games today if it wasn´t for dx 9 being released some while ago + the video cards that support it :confused:
 
I don't think there is any point at all in 64bit 3d accelerated drivers right now. When there is a windows 64 on the shelves ATi will have some drivers out. that you can count on. There is nothing to worry about.
 
Originally posted by Ady
I don't think there is any point at all in 64bit 3d accelerated drivers right now. When there is a windows 64 on the shelves ATi will have some drivers out. that you can count on. There is nothing to worry about.
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The longer the drivers aren´t available the longer it will take for 64-bit optimized games to come out
 
Originally posted by oqvist
The longer the drivers aren´t available the longer it will take for 64-bit optimized games to come out
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Exactly.
People asking why bother if the OS isn't available... you guys WANT to be the beta testers?

Everyone wanting to support XP64 needs to get in on this while it is in beta to work the bugs out. Rewriting code from 32bit to x86-64 may not be that bad, but writing drivers for a new version of Windows is a totally different game.

The first releases will have bugs. Simple fact of life. They need to make their first releases before the system goes live.

Same thing as testing a system before you sell it. Its covering your own ass. You don't tell your customer to stress test it to see if you f'ed up.

Of course there is the chance ATI is working on a near perfect driver set and just hasn't finished yet...
 
Video drivers aren't the only things not 64-bit. I already tried this and audio and ethernet drivers on this board weren't 64 bit and caused windows to break,and i dont feel like installing it again so i'll wait until REAL support comes out
 
Originally posted by oqvist
The longer the drivers aren´t available the longer it will take for 64-bit optimized games to come out
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I think these companies...hardware and game developers do talk to each other and know what each is up too. I doubt if a game developer checks ATI's web site for driver downloads and then starts working on a game when they see some new drivers.
 
Originally posted by Met-AL
I think these companies...hardware and game developers do talk to each other and know what each is up too. I doubt if a game developer checks ATI's web site for driver downloads and then starts working on a game when they see some new drivers.
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How do you think they test the games without drivers?

ATI may have a set out for developers, but how likely is that since we haven't heard of it?
Its hard to keep secrets on the internet.
 
Originally posted by obs
Of course NVIDIA wins in the non-windows driver market as well...
Click to expand...

Which would explain the reason behind about 3 people's purchases...








:p
 
Originally posted by 0ldman
How do you think they test the games without drivers?

ATI may have a set out for developers, but how likely is that since we haven't heard of it?
Its hard to keep secrets on the internet.
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It's called an NDA.

S1
 
beta or not, Microsoft just put it out for everyone to download.

so...one could reasonably hope for drivers to come out soon.
 
Originally posted by NecessaryEvil
beta or not, Microsoft just put it out for everyone to download.

so...one could reasonably hope for drivers to come out soon.
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What? Is it free??
 
Yup, in case you missed the link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/64bit/extended/trial/default.mspx

Special note "the pre-release software is time limited and will expire in 360 days"

So, if you know microsofts rollout shemes this means that there is absolutely no intention of moving to a Release Candidate for at least one year from this date. The final version will probably be hefty period of time after that, so trust me... Its a long way off.
 
in case you guys dont know... which it doesnt seem like you do this has been out since september 23rd... i have had copies since then. its just now being released to the general public, but it has been stable since then. i have contacted ati numerous times and they STILL havent released the driver. and the 64 bit OS blows away the 32 bit one and it has more features. the beta ran much smoother than the final release of xp with sp1... why dont i use it? ati still hasnt gotten around to releasing a driver. my motherboard did come with drivers for it though. just not a raid driver. unreal tournament will be released 32 bit and 64 bit at same time. the 64 bit OS can run both 32 bit and 64 bit applications and you do see a slight increase from having 64 bit os and 32 bit applications.
Ady, your statement is really wrong because there ARE MANY people out there that have this os... just because YOU dont have it doesnt mean that there shouldnt be drivers :rolleyes:
nvidia has had drivers out since october, not sure why ati isnt doing anything
 
Well, i think its pretty well tied to Intel. When Intel gets a beta 64-bit core code "driver" for its Itanium CPU and chipset then we can start worrying about a beta videocard driver (and soundcard, and ethernet and everything else)

It doesn't even support the two major brand CPU's or mobo chipsets yet, so there is very little hope that any peripheral driver will work properly.

If anyone has a 64-bit driver set for a peripheral, they may have to completely rewrite it if someone decides to change the "core" code... Its a risk I would not want to take.
 
lol, listen to the fanboy "intel must get everything it needs first" you know that this OS is written for amd processors only right now dont you? :rolleyes: considering intel doesnt have a 64 bit cpu that is for home use i dont see why you even mentioned this... no intel processor can run on this OS
 
The Itanium was around long before the AMD 64-bit processors.

Just because noone bought the 733Mhz and 800Mhz CPU's does not mean they don't exist. BTW: The clockspeed really gives away exactly how ancient these 64-bit chips are.

http://www.intel.com/products/server/processors/server/itanium/index.htm?iid=sr+itanium&

Microsoft is probably waiting for Intel to release the Itanium2/3 before they finalize any core code.

http://www.intel.com/products/serve...ndex.htm?iid=ipp_srvr_proc_itanium+intro_i2p&

And I don't think it may ever be necessary to "have" a 64-bit CPU for home use (not in the next couple years at least)

BTW, I would feel no different about peripherals if Intel were supported and AMD was not... No peripheral maker in his right mind would make a beta set of drivers when either of the main CPU's is not even in a beta stage.
 
there has been xp 64bit for Itanium since xp launched. that is a different product than what is being launched here
 
Originally posted by fugu
360 day trial of the beta
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Any reason installing this on my 32-bit BARTON.

Something like the 9500-9700 softmod LOL
 
zenops
yes i know what an itanium is... itaniums can ONLY use 64 bit programs. itaniums CAN NOT use this OS just as the a64 CAN NOT use the OS for the itaniums. therefore there is no use bringing it up :rolleyes:

No peripheral maker in his right mind would make a beta set of drivers when either of the main CPU's is not even in a beta stage.

WTF are you talking about... the a64 is OUT and microsoft is making an OS for it... the code wont be much different if at all to make beta to full windows 64 drivers.
 
Originally posted by oqvist
The longer the drivers aren´t available the longer it will take for 64-bit optimized games to come out
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What makes you think that? I'm sure developers can get ATis 64bit drivers if they need them. There is nothing to see here. When there is a windows64 released there will also be drivers released to the public.
 
this is going to sound stupid, but i'm a ATI fanboy. However, i will never by an ATI card, they are just lazy with drivers, and until they become more stable, I will stick with nVidia.
 
I'm not talking about Windows 64, the old one where the only real benefit is the > 4GB of Ram (to an equally pathetic 16GB)allocation, I'm talking about upcoming OS that acutally uses the 64-bit instructions SSE2/SSE3 and the soon to be 3+ Ghz 64-bit Xeons that will be coming out (The rumor is the Itanium is going to die) I'm assuming this is what people are talking about when they mean its for video/gaming as there is about ZERO reason to want 3D support on a 800Mhz Itanium, when a $150 P4 will do it 2x faster.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...net/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xp64ovw.asp

And yes, you can run 32-bit Windows apps in 64, but you have to download and install the execution layer. Dunno how well it works, never seen anyone try. If its of any note: its at version 4.3 (lots of bugfixes)

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...5a-17ed-4638-a39d-b40332a30ee9&displaylang=en

Honestly though, I don't see why people insist 64-bit is so much better. It only raises the memory to greather than 4GB, and adds a few 64-bit FPU speedups (no special instructions)... I think it would be better to just use a 32-bit processor and have multiple ALU and FPU's... The main reason for going away from 8-bit and 16-bit OS'es was the allocation was too small.

640KB limit is tiny? But is 4GB of RAM really too small for any user? Heck, people just use Gigabit ethernet and daisychain them together if you need the processing power or memory allocation.
 
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