Apple trying to be proactive with its Batteries... Something feels wrong

L

Lakados

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
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OK So Apple or more specifically iMessage wasn't on the list of gatekeepers but if the EU decided to change the wording slightly it would have been in there and here they are adding RCS support which goes to keep them off that list even if those changes are made.
The EU is working on a similar regulation about Batteries and self-repair, and the current soft, foil-lined batteries are considered no good for a few reasons, they are stupid and easy to puncture which causes them to ignite, and they are currently acting as a thermal insulator inside the iPhones, it was manageable in the 14 Pro, but the 15 Pro is is a significant problem area.
Leaked photos show them testing the batteries in a solid metal casing, which will make them easier to replace and allow the casing to act as a thermal conductor and not a thermal insulator.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/20/leaked-iphone-16-pro-battery
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Definitely a good move if accurate. It'll be a blast if the iPhone 16 series makes it relatively easy to replace the battery (though I suspect Apple doesn't want to return to ye olde days of swappable batteries).
 
Aurelius said:
Definitely a good move if accurate. It'll be a blast if the iPhone 16 series makes it relatively easy to replace the battery (though I suspect Apple doesn't want to return to ye olde days of swappable batteries).
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The last time that was possible really was the iPhone 5s. After that they starting sealing the displays in order to achieve reasonable IP ratings. Which, I would still say was a net benefit. I swapped my own batteries on 4S/5/5S.

However, there is an odd mentality in the US about not wanting to spend $75 or whatever it is to swap the battery to extend the life of a device for another 2 years. In Japan, I would see people with 5+ year old phones all the time. So there is definitely a different mentality about money and saving it there vs trying to keep up with the Jones' here.
 
pendragon1 said:
https://hardforum.com/forums/apple-products.74/
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Buddy stop gate keeping. If we adhered to that then we would/should just delete the entire news section. Why talk about those new higher density WD hard drives in the news section? Just put it in the storage section. Why talk about video cards like the upcoming nVidia 5000 series or AMD 8000 series in the news section? Just put it in the video cards section. Why talk about what Intel is doing with Lunar Lake or new AMD Threadripper CPU's? Just put it in the processors section. And so forth.

If it doesn't interest you, just scroll on.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Buddy stop gate keeping. If we adhered to that sort of idea then we would/should just delete the entire news section. Why talk about those new higher density WD hard drives in the news section? Just put it in the storage section. Why talk about video cards like the upcoming nVidia 5000 series or AMD 8000 series in the news section? Just put it in the video cards section. Why talk about what Intel is doing or new AMD Threadripper CPU's? Just put it int he processors section. And so forth.

If it doesn't interest you, just scroll on.
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lol gatekeeping... we have forum sections for a reason. otherwise it'd just be news, genmay and soapbox.

Lakados said:
Not really a product.
So I’m not sure that is the appropriate location.
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"iphone 16 pro battery", sounds like an apple product to me.
 
pendragon1 said:
lol gatekeeping... we have forum sections for a reason. otherwise it'd just be news, genmay and soapbox.
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Okay. Actually address my point. Why have a news section? Go into every other news post and tell them to post their "news" in the "appropriate forum subsection" instead.
 
Lakados said:
The iPhone 16 does not yet exist. So even if accurate it’s not yet a product and would qualify I think as design news or feature leaks.
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Okay. Neither does half of the news post? I expect you'll mention similar things in the Intel Lunar Lake news post, yes? Shall I go on on the other product stacks that are listed in news that you also haven't posted this in?
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Okay. Neither does half of the news post? I expect you'll mention similar things in the Intel Lunar Lake news post, yes? Shall I go on on the other product stacks that are listed in news that you also haven't posted this in?
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What?
I am confused as to why a design leak for the iPhone 16 and Apple's steps to comply with impending EU mandates on replaceable batteries while taking steps to address existing Thermal issues is something that should supposedly be in the Apple products section.
 
Didn't they switch away from a solid design because they tended to vent violently and explode from the increased pressure when the batteries expanded?
 
Nobu said:
Didn't they switch away from a solid design because they tended to vent violently and explode from the increased pressure when the batteries expanded?
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That's what some sites claimed, but a soft design inside a solid phone case isn't any different from a solid design inside a solid case, but a soft design glued into the solid case does make for one hell of a PITA if you ever need to get that battery out with explosive results should you botch the job.

So Apple and Apple-friendly sites can tell me they did it for safety reasons till they are blue in the face but I can't see how it is different, because, at the end of the day, we have a bunch of battery cells packed inside a metal container regardless of the format, but one is much more consumer-friendly than the other.
 
Lakados said:
What?
I am confused as to why a design leak for the iPhone 16 and Apple's steps to comply with impending EU mandates on replaceable batteries while taking steps to address existing Thermal issues is something that should supposedly be in the Apple products section.
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Responded to the wrong person.

pendragon1 said:
yeah yeah

report it then....
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No yuo. Again, quit gatekeeping. Scroll on.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
However, there is an odd mentality in the US about not wanting to spend $75 or whatever it is to swap the battery to extend the life of a device for another 2 years. In Japan, I would see people with 5+ year old phones all the time. So there is definitely a different mentality about money and saving it there vs trying to keep up with the Jones' here.
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Yeah, the wife and I had iPhone 6S's until sometime after the release of the 13's. I had the battery in hers replaced twice, mine once. Both actually still work and I use one of them as 'tablet' for my toddler son; he loves drawing and typing in the Notes app; the other I use as a stream deck via Touch Portal. The one my son plays with still holds enough charge to play with for a couple hours. I'm on the fence about repairing them again, need to look at cost.

I know my 13 Pro can get fairly warm, just below uncomfortably so. I wonder if the 13 uses the same style battery as the 14 and 15. It's be nice to not have a battery glued down like they are now, though I imagine that maintaining the IP ratings they have means that while they are technically user serviceable, it's still quite difficult by the nature of the overall construction.
 
LodeRunner said:
Yeah, the wife and I had iPhone 6S's until sometime after the release of the 13's. I had the battery in hers replaced twice, mine once. Both actually still work and I use one of them as 'tablet' for my toddler son; he loves drawing and typing in the Notes app; the other I use as a stream deck via Touch Portal. The one my son plays with still holds enough charge to play with for a couple hours. I'm on the fence about repairing them again, need to look at cost.

I know my 13 Pro can get fairly warm, just below uncomfortably so. I wonder if the 13 uses the same style battery as the 14 and 15. It's be nice to not have a battery glued down like they are now, though I imagine that maintaining the IP ratings they have means that while they are technically user serviceable, it's still quite difficult by the nature of the overall construction.
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They are still glued in and while there are a lot of good video tutorials out there on removing and replacing them, it’s still a PITA and if you fudge it up results in the destruction of the device. And call me old fashioned but I don’t think any process that is supposed to be as simple as changing a battery should have the very real chance of property destruction and hospitalization as common issues should you make a small mistake.
 
Lakados said:
They are still glued in and while there are a lot of good video tutorials out there on removing and replacing them, it’s still a PITA and if you fudge it up results in the destruction of the device. And call me old fashioned but I don’t think any process that is supposed to be as simple as changing a battery should have the very real chance of property destruction and hospitalization as common issues should you make a small mistake.
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Yeah, here's hoping 16+ is more serviceable. We bought 13 Pro's up front with the expectation of flogging them for 5+ years; The cost of phones these days is in the neighborhood of good portion of what I spend on PC refresh builds and I only do that every 5-8 years unless something just isn't working.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
The last time that was possible really was the iPhone 5s. After that they starting sealing the displays in order to achieve reasonable IP ratings. Which, I would still say was a net benefit. I swapped my own batteries on 4S/5/5S.

However, there is an odd mentality in the US about not wanting to spend $75 or whatever it is to swap the battery to extend the life of a device for another 2 years. In Japan, I would see people with 5+ year old phones all the time. So there is definitely a different mentality about money and saving it there vs trying to keep up with the Jones' here.
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I have an iPhone 7. Battery pretty much died. For like $80 and two hours, I got a new battery from the local Apple store. Like a new phone, but about $1000 cheaper. :joyful:
 
philb2 said:
I have an iPhone 7. Battery pretty much died. For like $80 and two hours, I got a new battery from the local Apple store. Like a new phone, but about $1000 cheaper. :joyful:
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Basically.

I used my 6S for 4 years, and my XR for 4 years. Just doing battery swaps. People think getting a battery done is expensive and then don't consider that the alternative is buying a $700-$1400 phone. It's a very short sighted mentality that I think in our tougher economic times, some folks are finally starting to get.

I also recently replaced the battery in my Apple Watch 4. I've wanted to get an Ultra or something like that for a while, but even on doing reviews the only real gains would be from getting more sensors and a few of the sensors are more accurate. The only other upgrade is the always on LTPO display first in Watch 5.
The processors used in Watch 4-8 are virtually the same with some slight tweaks. There was no way for me to know, but it turns out getting a used Watch 4 was the move all those years ago. Been on it for almost 5 years and still don't need a new one really.

This is an even bigger diversion, but in theory there is supposed to be a 10th anniversary Apple watch that will have an extensive redesign. Maybe at that point it will be worth upgrading. From a functionality perspective though, they may have overbuilt what I already have. The biggest upgrades for me would be battery life and the always on display. Getting more accurate measurements would "be nice", but not necessary. Ultra Watch 2 has basically all those upgrades, but again, don't really need it. And like I say, will wait for 10th Anniversary Watch and see what that brings.
 
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Lakados said:
The EU is working on a similar regulation about Batteries and self-repair, and the current soft, foil-lined batteries are considered no good for a few reasons, they are stupid and easy to puncture which causes them to ignite,
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They're easy to puncture when the battery is glued down by the might of Zeus. So what often happens is I have to pry the battery out, and I end up bending the crap out of the battery in the process. There are some cases where I smell something when doing this, which I then promptly put the battery outside, just in case it self combusts.
and they are currently acting as a thermal insulator inside the iPhones, it was manageable in the 14 Pro, but the 15 Pro is is a significant problem area.
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It's a significant problem because Apple has made zero effort to keep things cool. It's also likely that due to the power demand of the iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max, the battery is pulling serious current. Especially now that iPhone 15 Pro's are playing AAA games that can put the phone's thermals into a critical state.
Leaked photos show them testing the batteries in a solid metal casing, which will make them easier to replace and allow the casing to act as a thermal conductor and not a thermal insulator.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/20/leaked-iphone-16-pro-battery
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View attachment 615204View attachment 615205
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I don't think that's what the EU had in mind, unless the screen could be flipped open by hand. iPhone screens are held down by two screws, so a latch wouldn't be far fetched. The flex cable is not what I'd want for a battery connector if this battery is meant to be replaceable without special tools or glue, considering they are usually held down by a plate with screws. Those cables break extremely easily, but who knows if that's part of Apple's game.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Okay. Actually address my point. Why have a news section? Go into every other news post and tell them to post their "news" in the "appropriate forum subsection" instead.
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I like the news section because I get to read the posts of the same 10 people all day without having to search too hard. It’s super convenient.
 
Instructions unclear, but I assume I am supposed to be outraged.

I recently replaced the battery on an iPhone 11 Pro. The battery swelled up and carefully separated the screen from the chassis for me, so the hard part was done. I found the battery to be really easy to replace despite being scared to death of touching a swollen battery. There were a lot of screws to undo inside the chassis. But the battery itself was held down with silicone tape which was very convenient to remove with tweezers and rolling it up.
 
DukenukemX said:
They're easy to puncture when the battery is glued down by the might of Zeus. So what often happens is I have to pry the battery out, and I end up bending the crap out of the battery in the process. There are some cases where I smell something when doing this, which I then promptly put the battery outside, just in case it self combusts.
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I know it's stupid... The man who proposed this idea deserves a special seat in a very uncomfortable room, WTF.
DukenukemX said:
I don't think that's what the EU had in mind, unless the screen could be flipped open by hand. iPhone screens are held down by two screws, so a latch wouldn't be far fetched. The flex cable is not what I'd want for a battery connector if this battery is meant to be replaceable without special tools or glue, considering they are usually held down by a plate with screws. Those cables break extremely easily, but who knows if that's part of Apple's game.
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The EU has some stuff in the works regarding repairability and putting clear definitions of what makes something repairable by the consumer and what doesn't.
Requiring a special tool isn't a problem, as long as that tool is easy to find and cheap to get, no $300 screwdriver to open the case sort of deal.
Requiring the use of solvents and a heat gun to replace a battery that is easily damaged and highly flammable, would very likely be a big no-no. But 3 screws or some sticky tabs holding down a disposable plastic membrane that is attached to the battery is 100% OK.

Things like that, so the existing screen replacement kit that Apple ships in the 3 pelican cases and a 300-page EULA would be a big The fuck no!

EU taking Apple and really the majority of the cellular market to task on this, because we shit on Apple, and rightly so for their non-repairable (outside their authorized facilities) expensive ass phones, but the cheap Androids are just as bad and if not worse.
 
Nobu said:
Didn't they switch away from a solid design because they tended to vent violently and explode from the increased pressure when the batteries expanded?
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They switched away because the soft batteries are thinner and the market wanted a thinner phone.
 
Thunderdolt said:
They switched away because the soft batteries are thinner and the market wanted a thinner phone.
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they thought the market wanted a thinner phone. I could be wrong but most people would rather take another 2mm of phone thickness for the ability to not have to go to a shop to replace it. I mean, people clap otterbox defenders on their phones all the time...Phones are tools now, not fashion statements, at least how I see it.
 
Lakados said:
Requiring a special tool isn't a problem, as long as that tool is easy to find and cheap to get, no $300 screwdriver to open the case sort of deal.
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That wasn't the case before. You know how many screw drivers I get from the batteries I buy? I got a box of these things.
Requiring the use of solvents and a heat gun to replace a battery that is easily damaged and highly flammable, would very likely be a big no-no. But 3 screws or some sticky tabs holding down a disposable plastic membrane that is attached to the battery is 100% OK.
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I would think that it would go back to the good old days where you just need a hand and some careful prying to get at a phones battery. Something that a T-Mobile store representative can barely do. Still requiring screws so small that if you drop it, you might as well forget it, isn't what I'd want as a consumer.
EU taking Apple and really the majority of the cellular market to task on this, because we shit on Apple, and rightly so for their non-repairable (outside their authorized facilities) expensive ass phones, but the cheap Androids are just as bad and if not worse.
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Android phones haven't had replaceable batteries for a long time, and yes they can be much worse to replace. The reason why Apple gets so much attention is because they set the standard. The reason why Android phones do this now, is because Apple has been getting away with it. It's the reason why Android phones have been going back and forth with SD Cards and headphone jacks, because they want to remove these but consumers still want them. Eventually no Android phone will have either, because it's cheaper that way. For the companies, not the consumers. No discounts for consumers.


View: https://youtu.be/nJJ_RCrVQCA?t=150
 
UnknownSouljer said:
However, there is an odd mentality in the US about not wanting to spend $75 or whatever it is to swap the battery to extend the life of a device for another 2 years. In Japan, I would see people with 5+ year old phones all the time. So there is definitely a different mentality about money and saving it there vs trying to keep up with the Jones' here.
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The Japanese people can't afford it. The US is headed in the same direction.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
The Japanese people can't afford it. The US is headed in the same direction.
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Uh, no. The Japanese save more per capita than any other nation in the world. They have the capacity to “afford” far more than the average Amercian can.

Japan has zero and/or negative inflation. The US has insanely high inflation. There would have to be massive changes in US economic policy to get even close to zero inflation. What with all the money printing.
 
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