Apple Plans To Overhaul Entire Mac Line With AI-Focused M4 Chips

[Shoganai]

Gotta be more specific as I have over a dozen laptops. Don't ask. My main laptop is a HP with Ryzen 5 5600U.

Your newest/fastest one. So you just have a mid range laptop?

This is a serious problem when dealing with Apple fans, because when the argument is lost they refer to build quality. Like Apple has a track record of good build quality.

Not only was this an overblown issue, it also has nothing to do with Apple's current lineup of M-series Macs. So thanks for the pointless link. Every company has issues, but the build quality of their laptops is recognizable by everyone. That's not fanboy speak. That's just a fact. I'm not an "Apple fan." I'm a tech fan.

I tend to run my laptop as low as possible because my blue eyes are really sensitive to bright light.

Okay?

I think you need to have your eyes checked if you max out brightness all the time. Some of these screens can get really bright.

I think you need to have yours checked since you're so sensitive to light. I have blue eyes as well. It doesn't have any bearing on my screen brightness usage.

Also, who's to say what brightness setting other reviewers use for comparison? As Aurelius said before, it's not a straightforward comparison because of the nature of laptops.

It seems like you're pretty okay with constantly making blanket statements.

 

[LukeTbk]

I think you need to have yours checked since you're so sensitive to light. I have blue eyes as well. It doesn't have any bearing on my screen brightness usage.

But how can a brightness level that is ok to use in a sunny room-exterior can be ok in low-light inside condition, one or the other would be too bright or not bright enough it is impossible for it to not be the case, are you sure you do not have the Automatically adjust brightness set to on that apple (or most modern laptop, phone, etc...) product with their ambient light sensor have set to on ?

I am not sure if it is unusual for the user to leave that option (auto-adjust brithness and/or TrueTone) their device to on (it is on by default out of the box).... and a reason why they all have buttons to do it quickly from the keyboard, because it is not uncommon to adjust it and not leave it 100% all the time.

 

[Shoganai]

But how can a brightness level that is ok to use in a sunny room-exterior can be ok in low-light inside condition, one or the other would be too bright or not bright enough it is impossible for it to not be the case, are you sure you do not have the Automatically adjust brightness set to on that apple (or most modern laptop, phone, etc...) product with their ambient light sensor have set to on ?

I am not sure if it is unusual for the user to leave that option (auto-adjust brithness and/or TrueTone) their device to on (it is on by default out of the box).... and a reason why they all have buttons to do it quickly from the keyboard, because it is not uncommon to adjust it and not leave it 100% all the time.

I have auto brightness turned off on all my devices. I don't like when my device does what it wants. I also have TrueTone turned off as I don't like the yellow hue.

 

[DukenukemX]

Your newest/fastest one. So you just have a mid range laptop?

Keep in mind the last time I bought a laptop was in 2010, which is my Compaq CQ62. Most of my laptops are just abandoned by people who can't afford to fix them. So I end up fixing them and keeping them. I also rarely use a laptop when I have desktops, so I don't need a powerful laptop.

Not only was this an overblown issue, it also has nothing to do with Apple's current lineup of M-series Macs. So thanks for the pointless link. Every company has issues, but the build quality of their laptops is recognizable by everyone. That's not fanboy speak. That's just a fact. I'm not an "Apple fan." I'm a tech fan.

Except for people who repair them. It's the same reason why most mechanics avoid BMW's and drive Toyota's. They know the true build quality of the products they work on. Apple is not the worst, but they sure are trying. If your idea of build quality is how it feels in your hands, then that's entirely subjective. It's terms of stuff that breaks and how repairable it is, then Apple is kinda the worst. Maybe Surface devices are worse, but hardly anyone buys those.

I think you need to have yours checked since you're so sensitive to light. I have blue eyes as well. It doesn't have any bearing on my screen brightness usage.

It is a stupid complaint nonetheless. What you find appropriate to use may not be for others. Obviously not everyone maxes out the brightness setting on their laptops.

It seems like you're pretty okay with constantly making blanket statements.

You're complaining about the brightness setting of one review but what do most reviewers do? I honestly don't know because a brightness setting is something I overlook. It obviously matters, but it's really hard to find a battery test against Apple vs Windows, let alone which brightness setting they're using. The point is that modern Windows laptops do not last 2 hours on battery. That changes when playing games, but that also changes for Apple as well. Which kinda does line up with Apple laptops, as pointed out by this user on a M1 Macbook Air who just last under 8 hours on battery. He was using full brightness on his screen. He just browsed the web, did a zoom meeting, and before he had a chance to do any video editing he had to plug it in. Someone told him to turn off Teams as that eats battery, and he only lasted 7.5 hours. The responses he got from people was that they were expecting to last twice as long, or even 3x longer. It's pretty clear that Apple's Silicon battery life is entirely based on hyperbole, and nobody has actually sat down and tested it, along with modern Windows laptops. If Anandtech's test showed a little over 7 hours with the 7940hs laptop on Office Suite work with yes 50% brightness, then it's minutes apart from Apple. There's obviously a lot going on between an old M1 Macbook Air vs a modern Razer Blade 14 with the 7940hs, but you obviously won't complain over the battery life on the latter. You can also see if the RTX GPU is in use for things like video playing or even Office Suite work, it takes the battery use from several hours to 2-3 hours. I guarantee you that a lot of people don't ensure that the built in AMD 780m GPU handles light tasks instead of the RTX GPU. If anything that's a problem with how Windows and Nvidia handles this.


View: https://youtu.be/zdhMxsyuGyY?si=_YrrTWvscXf-bTNn

 

[paradoxical]

Imagine if you were the type of person that didn't own any high end devices of any brand but exclusively relied on videos of dudes making o-faces for your technology understanding?

This guy doesn't have to imagine ^^^^^

 

[Shoganai]

Imagine if you were the type of person that didn't own any high end devices of any brand but exclusively relied on videos of dudes making o-faces for your technology understanding?

This guy doesn't have to imagine ^^^^^

Yeah. I'm just utterly baffled by how anyone can have strong opinions about things they've never even considered trying or owning, and likely never will. It's like arguing about the best flavor of ice cream when you've never tasted any. I don't have the time, nor the crayons, to appropriately explain myself to him anymore. I don't block anyone on [H], but I won't continue engaging with this rhetoric. I simply prioritize what serves my needs, which is what truly matters for all of us anyway.

 

[sadsteve]

Painful, but it’s a reasonably accurate depiction.

“Apple, aiming to boost sluggish computer sales, is preparing to overhaul its entire Mac line with a new family of in-house processors designed to highlight AI. Bloomberg News:The company, which released its first Macs with M3 chips five months ago, is already nearing production of the next generation -- the M4 processor -- according to people with knowledge of the matter. The new chip will come in at least three main varieties, and Apple is looking to update every Mac model with it, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the plans haven't been announced.

The new Macs are underway at a critical time. After peaking in 2022, Mac sales fell 27% in the last fiscal year, which ended in September. In the holiday period, revenue from the computer line was flat. Apple attempted to breathe new life into the Mac business with an M3-focused launch event last October, but those chips didn't bring major performance improvements over the M2 from the prior year. Apple also is playing catch-up in AI, where it's seen as a laggard to Microsoft, Alphabet's Google and other tech peers. The new chips are part of a broader push to weave AI capabilities into all its products. Apple is aiming to release the updated computers beginning late this year and extending into early next year.”

Source: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/24...haul-entire-mac-line-with-ai-focused-m4-chips

Adding AI to a PC is not something that would make me want to buy said PC. In fact, I'd be looking for ways to disable/delete it before I'd buy the device.

 

[paradoxical]

Adding AI to a PC is not something that would make me want to buy said PC. In fact, I'd be looking for ways to disable/delete it before I'd buy the device.

What if I told you AI/machine learning is already running on every single Windows PC and Mac and there is no way for you to opt out? It's amazing to me people don't already realize that.

 

[LukeTbk]

Deleting the ability for CPU-GPU to multiply FP16-int8, etc... matrix, while still being good at raster will be hard to do, not sure what it would mean, every PC ever sold can do it no ?

https://calsci.com/Benchmarks.html
Old benchmark of training neural network on 8086 to Pentium 2 cpus

 

[Tengis]

This thread is entertaining.

 

[Lakados]

What if I told you AI/machine learning is already running on every single Windows PC and Mac and there is no way for you to opt out? It's amazing to me people don't already realize that.

Also every cellular device, and it makes up the core functionality for dealing with wireless signals in congested environments or streaming media over the Internet.

 

[paradoxical]

Damn, AI hitting close to home here.

Title: Dukenukemx's Bitter Frustration by ChatGPT

In the dimly lit confines of his cluttered workshop, dukenukemx labored tirelessly, his brow furrowed in concentration as he meticulously pieced together his aging computer with newfound upgrades. Each soldered joint, every carefully selected component was a testament to his unwavering determination to defy the march of time and technology.

As he powered on his resurrected machine, a glimmer of hope flickered in dukenukemx's eyes. Yet, his optimism was short-lived. Despite his best efforts, the performance gains were marginal at best, a mere whisper in the cacophony of cutting-edge innovation that permeated the digital landscape.

In the bustling forums of HardForum, where once he had found solace among like-minded enthusiasts, dukenukemx now felt like a relic from a forgotten era. The chatter of tech-savvy users discussing the latest advancements in AI and the newest offerings from Apple served as a constant reminder of his hardware's inadequacy.

Try as he might to keep pace with the ever-accelerating march of progress, dukenukemx found himself falling further and further behind. While others effortlessly navigated the digital realm with sleek, lightning-fast devices, he struggled to eke out even the most basic functionality from his outdated rig.

With each passing day, dukenukemx's bitterness grew, festering like a wound that refused to heal. He lashed out at those who dared to challenge his beliefs, railing against the perceived injustices of a world that had left him behind. His once vibrant passion for technology had curdled into a toxic blend of resentment and envy.

As the years wore on, dukenukemx retreated further into the shadows, a solitary figure haunted by the ghosts of his hardware's failures. His workshop became a mausoleum of obsolete hardware, a monument to a time long since past. And though he continued to tinker and tweak, it was a futile effort, a desperate grasp at a relevance that had long since slipped through his fingers.

In the end, dukenukemx's story served as a cautionary tale, a stark reminder of the unforgiving nature of progress. For all his passion and determination, he was ultimately swept aside by the relentless tide of innovation, consigned to obscurity in a world that no longer had any use for him. And as he faded into the annals of digital history, his bitter legacy served as a sobering reminder that in the fast-paced world of technology, even the most dedicated among us can be left behind.

 

[DukenukemX]

Imagine if you were the type of person that didn't own any high end devices of any brand but exclusively relied on videos of dudes making o-faces for your technology understanding?

This guy doesn't have to imagine ^^^^^

Think I've heard this rhetoric before. Was it from Nvidia users or other Apple users? Are Macbooks technically a high end device? They cost as much as one, but I don't know if I'd call them high end. Certainly not with 8GB of ram and cost over $1k. Who knows, maybe by the M4 you might see 16GB in Apple's base models? Oh but yes AI will be included in the M4's. Would be hilarious if 8GB was still the base model. But the guy who repairs dozens of these devices can't have proper opinion because he doesn't own something that costs over $1k. This is a tactic one uses when the argument is lost.

This thread is entertaining.

Are you not entertained?

 

[Aurelius]

Think I've heard this rhetoric before. Was it from Nvidia users or other Apple users? Are Macbooks technically a high end device? They cost as much as one, but I don't know if I'd call them high end. Certainly not with 8GB of ram and cost over $1k. Who knows, maybe by the M4 you might see 16GB in Apple's base models? Oh but yes AI will be included in the M4's. Would be hilarious if 8GB was still the base model. But the guy who repairs dozens of these devices can't have proper opinion because he doesn't own something that costs over $1k. This is a tactic one uses when the argument is lost.

They're high-end for a number of reasons. Yes, Apple is being stingy with 8GB of RAM, but the performance is good (especially for audiovisual tasks), the designs are great, the displays are high-quality, and the battery life is superb.

 

[DukenukemX]

They're high-end for a number of reasons. Yes, Apple is being stingy with 8GB of RAM, but the performance is good (especially for audiovisual tasks), the designs are great, the displays are high-quality, and the battery life is superb.

This is why I'm confused if this was started with Nvidia or Apple users, because both suffer from an 8GB issue. I'm sure an 8GB M3 Macbook is really fast in limited tasks, but does it also fall flat on it's face when you start going past 8GB? Max Tech shows that with 8GB it can take 5x longer to complete a task compared to a 16GB Macbook or Windows PC. The displays are great with color accuracy, but once you start using them and watch the blur you should start questioning the "high end" you get with Apple. I know these aren't gaming laptops, but even moving applications around you can easily see the petroleum jelly that some Foxconn worker must have left on the Apple screen. I've already argued that good battery life isn't unique to Apple anymore. I don't see the high end on something that costs $1600. Maybe an M3 Pro Macbook could be considered high end, but at that point you've spent at least $2,500k on a laptop that has 18GB of ram, which some laptops at that price range have 12GB of VRAM. Just because a Macbook costs as much as a high end PC, doesn't make it a high end product. That is called the Apple tax.

High end indeed.

 

[sadsteve]

What if I told you AI/machine learning is already running on every single Windows PC and Mac and there is no way for you to opt out? It's amazing to me people don't already realize that.

What if I told you all my computing, besides some games, is done under Linux.

 

[Shoganai]

What if I told you all my computing, besides some games, is done under Linux.

Next you'll tell us you're a vegan CrossFitter.

 

[Lakados]

What if I told you all my computing, besides some games, is done under Linux.

Then you are still making extensive use of their ML libraries, which is just a less buzzy word for AI at this point.

 

[DukenukemX]

What if I told you all my computing, besides some games, is done under Linux.

Next you'll tell me that most of computers that host the internet are running Linux. Just crazy talk here.

 

[Shoganai]

Next you'll tell me that most of computers that host the internet are running Linux. Just crazy talk here.

About 96% of them, yes.

 

[sadsteve]

Then you are still making extensive use of their ML libraries, which is just a less buzzy word for AI at this point.

I've been using PS and Winget to remove the obvious AI things that I don't use (things like Copilot). I spend more time getting my games to run under Linux.

 

[sadsteve]

Next you'll tell us you're a vegan CrossFitter.

Nope, just telling the truth. After the Windows 8 fiasco I decided to try Linux and found out that, except for gaming, it was perfectly adequate for all my general computing needs. It helped that I'd been using applications that are available under Windows and Linux. I dual booted for a few years and then started running windows in VM instead. Works really well when you can pass through a GPU to the VM.

 

[CookieFactory]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Not only is the bickering (between nerds who've made their affinity for particular consumer products part of their identity) classically entertaining, I (as someone whose desktop is a Threadripper based Windows workstation, travels with a 16" M3 Max MBP, and runs a home Linux server as well as several in the cloud) can float above the fray, smugly convinced of my own impartiality and superiority. Platform agnosticism is truly the highest form of nerd elitism. Oh and I'm also into crypto and may or may not have a vanity plate disparaging fossil fuels on my Tesla.

Please everyone, do continue.

 

[Shoganai]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Not only is the bickering (between nerds who've made their affinity for particular consumer products part of their identity) classically entertaining, I (as someone whose desktop is a Threadripper based Windows workstation, travels with a 16" M3 Max MBP, and runs a home Linux server as well as several in the cloud) can float above the fray, smugly convinced of my own impartiality and superiority. Platform agnosticism is truly the highest form of nerd elitism. Oh and I'm also into crypto and may or may not have a vanity plate disparaging fossil fuels on my Tesla.

Please everyone, do continue.

You get it. I like to use everything as well. I don't understand hating one side so vehemently that you can't even let other people enjoy things. I have a Mac laptop, a Windows desktop, and I have a Raspberry Pi running Pi-Hole on my network. I also switch from the iPhone to Android every other year as I like to see what cool things are happening on the other side of the fence. Just use what you like and that's all that matters. This blind loyalism doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Lakados]

You get it. I like to use everything as well. I don't get understand hating one side so vehemently that you can't even let other people enjoy things. I have a Mac laptop, a Windows desktop, and I have a Raspberry Pi running Pi-Hole on my network. I also switch from the iPhone to Android every other year as I like to see what cool things are happening on the other side of the fence. Just use what you like and that's all that matters. This blind loyalism doesn't make any sense to me.

I work with thousands of machines, Chrome, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux, they all have a place and a job to do.
And if you get the right machine for the job it does it damned well, Apple makes one hell of a business class machine, I wouldn't game on it, but it will do spreadsheets and databases along with the best of them, and they crush in conference meetings, camera, mic, speakers top-notch, and the screens look good in even the shittiest of office lighting. And I don't ever really need to hear the words "Hey do you have a spare charger for my Mac, I forgot mine at home and it's about to die" because even at 50% or so you can reasonably expect a full 8 hours out of the thing.

I need my bigger Windows PC's because getting a good NIC in anything else is a pain, I require the ability to tag vlans locally for diagnostics and I like the linux subsystem options for some other tools. But using windows + linux subsystem is easier than Linux + windows subsystem, and I don't have the patience to dual boot.

But 90% of the people here can do their daily job on a Chromebook or an iPad equally well, and for those who need more I personally prefer the Latitudes because they are still really easy to work on and Dell for all their faults has a fantastic records keeping and billing system. So when I loose the paperwork, I know they already have it. Apple though, doesn't even bother to send me the paperwork, I can log in to the business manager and they can tell me more about my devices than I want to know, right down to what they internally called the invoice so it can be matched to our PO's in the event I ever need to do a lost device recovery or such.

 

[sphinx99]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Not only is the bickering (between nerds who've made their affinity for particular consumer products part of their identity) classically entertaining, I (as someone whose desktop is a Threadripper based Windows workstation, travels with a 16" M3 Max MBP, and runs a home Linux server as well as several in the cloud) can float above the fray, smugly convinced of my own impartiality and superiority. Platform agnosticism is truly the highest form of nerd elitism. Oh and I'm also into crypto and may or may not have a vanity plate disparaging fossil fuels on my Tesla.

Please everyone, do continue.

Ditto all around. TR workstation for home stuff and games, M3 Max 16” for work and carry-around, and a bunch of virtualized Linux containers for various server apps. iPhones and iPads but also various Android devices. A complicated mix of HomeKit, Alexa and Google stuff. Subscription to GPT, while kicking CoPilot’s tires daily. An actual tech enthusiast welcomes all of these different models and modalities, does as much as possible to explore them all, because it puts us in the best position to not only understand the macroscopic tech trends, but also to help us pick the right tool for any given job. And hell I regularly play with vintage stuff - just got the PSU working on my original Compaq Deskpro desktop - 8086 model - because the perspective of where we came from is important in understanding where we are today.

I may not have a plate disparaging fossil fuels on my Tesla, however I do park it right next to the twin turbo V8 powered 5,500lb SUV that averages about 14mpg. I like to think that they are friends, not enemies, who respect each other’s propulsion system…