Apple Announces Apple Vision Pro AR Spatial Super Computer

Look they have one for kids too!

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dr.stevil said:
As a fan of VR in general, I can’t help but disagree. VR headsets have their place, but they will never see mass adoption, especially at Apples price point (and during an economic storm).

Their tech actually looks pretty awesome, from a design/engineering standpoint, imo.
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First we aren't in an economic storm. There is still price gouging going on but real inflation is down, wages are up, gdp is up, the market is up, we are producing jobs at a record rate. This is probably the greatest growth spurt since FDR.

Second this isn't for most people. The MS holo lense actually did take off, in industry, where it's used for all sorts of things. While apple is always going to sexy things up you need to look past this. This is largely a developer device. They are pushing it out the gate in the hopes that, like the iPhone, people start making killer apps for it before pushing out a cheaper version that's made for consumers and possibly an industrial version which is where the money is in all this.

I wouldn't count this out yet.
 
I own an index.... from like five years ago now? Its was $1,000. What does $3,500 get you in 2023 if it can't even play the VR hand fighting SkyRim with Chat GPT NPC's? (Over 700 mods to get it going, but holy shit)
 
idiomatic said:
I own an index.... from like five years ago now? Its was $1,000. What does $3,500 get you in 2023 if it can't even play the VR hand fighting SkyRim with Chat GPT NPC's? (Over 700 mods to get it going, but holy shit)
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Honestly, they didn't show too many apps yet. The screens in there are definitely up there for tech. Youtubers who have had hands-on with it say the eye tracking and hand tracking are pretty damn good, so let's see what they do when it launches. I like getting novel new tech too but unless there are a ton of apps that seem interesting I'm not buying.
 
idiomatic said:
I own an index.... from like five years ago now? Its was $1,000. What does $3,500 get you in 2023 if it can't even play the VR hand fighting SkyRim with Chat GPT NPC's? (Over 700 mods to get it going, but holy shit)
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This isn't a VR headset.
 
SOAREVERSOR said:
First we aren't in an economic storm. There is still price gouging going on but real inflation is down, wages are up, gdp is up, the market is up, we are producing jobs at a record rate. This is probably the greatest growth spurt since FDR.

Second this isn't for most people. The MS holo lense actually did take off, in industry, where it's used for all sorts of things. While apple is always going to sexy things up you need to look past this. This is largely a developer device. They are pushing it out the gate in the hopes that, like the iPhone, people start making killer apps for it before pushing out a cheaper version that's made for consumers and possibly an industrial version which is where the money is in all this.

I wouldn't count this out yet.
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Wow. So much wrong here, but I'm not going to off topic this thread.
 
Mchart said:
Wow. So much wrong here, but I'm not going to off topic this thread.
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Yeah I was going to respond but where do you even start? Lol cue the everything is fine meme

Anyway, I do hope it succeeds but it’s a chicken and the egg situation. Why would developers give it the time of day if the product will only reach developers and nerds with a lot of disposable income?

The only way I can see this being successful is if Apple drops the price significantly or they come up with a low cost consumer version (which seems unlikely in the near future given how the hardware all plays together).

PC VR has a lot of hardware all at different price points and it’s still having a tough time attracting AAA developers. Apple tends to do better than most with their backs against the wall but it’s definitely going to be an uphill battle.
 
TangledThornz said:
From reading more up on it the responsiveness of the Vision Pro is the most intriguing part, it's like science fiction level ready. This could be the game changer for VR/AR/etc. I can also see this as something my children will use in their daily work & home lives in the future.
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Yes, I do foresee a miserable future where every public school in the US is using taxpayer dollars to purchase $10k a pop VisionEDU models and forcing every kid to use these things for the curriculum.

People think Zoomers are screwed up because of cell phones - Just wait for whatever generation we have that grows up with nothing but AR/VR. We're fucked.
 
///AMG said:
Honestly, they didn't show too many apps yet. The screens in there are definitely up there for tech. Youtubers who have had hands-on with it say the eye tracking and hand tracking are pretty damn good, so let's see what they do when it launches. I like getting novel new tech too but unless there are a ton of apps that seem interesting I'm not buying.
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This.

I expected Tim Apple and friends to show some super cool new use case. I saw nothing that hasn’t been done before AND on cheaper hardware.
A comparison was how valve launched the index/knuckles with Alyx. Valve demoed a clearly novel way to use the hardware. I didn’t get that from the WWDC keynote.
 
I love the workspace concept, in fact there's a lot I like about their efforts.

I'm glad people that are not me can spend a couple of years with it before I ever even think about AR work environments. I'd quite like to play with this for design work. The question is would I only be playing or would it really enhance my work.
 
sc5mu93 said:
This.

I expected Tim Apple and friends to show some super cool new use case. I saw nothing that hasn’t been done before AND on cheaper hardware.
A comparison was how valve launched the index/knuckles with Alyx. Valve demoed a clearly novel way to use the hardware. I didn’t get that from the WWDC keynote.
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There were a bunch of use cases that haven't really been done before. The 3D video capture and playback hasn't been done on this level. The ability to gradually transition between AR and VR? Also new. And I think you're underselling the significance of the hardware. This is a full-on computing platform where the resolution, performance and interface are finally good enough to replace some PCs. Like was said earlier, this headset doesn't ship until early 2024 — we can wait several months to see if developers make good use of it.

I don't think this is an iPhone moment where the interface and capability improvements are so huge and obvious that they completely change the industry. But I do think some of the short-sighted cynicism that greeted the iPod/iPhone/iPad is also present here. That is, it's focused on relatively minor areas where Apple falls short instead of seeing the broader picture. Yeah, the Index had clever controller input... but the Vision Pro has eye and hand tracking that largely eliminate the need for physical controllers. It won't be as useful for gaming but might be exceptional for everything else.
 
Mchart said:
Yes, I do foresee a miserable future where every public school in the US is using taxpayer dollars to purchase $10k a pop VisionEDU models and forcing every kid to use these things for the curriculum.

People think Zoomers are screwed up because of cell phones - Just wait for whatever generation we have that grows up with nothing but AR/VR. We're fucked.
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We've been fucked for sometime. It's just a matter if we want to enjoy being fucked or not, lol.
 
While it's tempting to poke fun at what seems like an easy target, you shouldn't allow surface-level jest to overshadow the true potential of this device.

Throughout my life, I've avoided Apple products and scoffed at how over priced they were. However, these new "goggles" are the first offering that genuinely commands my admiration. The intuitive interface, the fluidity of operation, the convenience they offer – these qualities are overlooked by far too many, including a significant portion of Apple's own marketing department. YOU NEED these things to bring VR to the masses (to "grandma and grandpa") - iphone did something similar for cell phones. The AR part is essentially making the headset and VR part more convenient.

The reality is that pioneering (yes it's not NEW innovation but it's the best of all in one package) such a device inevitably comes with a high price tag in the current market. Only the highest end VR displays give you that fake touch sensation and trigger a reaction to duck when something in VR is coming at you. Apple has made a strategic move in introducing a potentially ahead-of-its-time, yet expensive product - bringing everything together - wireless, photo-realistic VR, advanced eye and hand tracking, and EASE OF USE - in a single device. They're capitalizing on their well-established brand to get people to buy in early despite the price and seize a substantial market share before the competition gets up to speed.

I could dive deeper into the nuanced features of this device, elucidating why it's more than meets the eye. However, I would agree the battery life needs to be addressed before the product hits the market. If tackled correctly, these "goggles" could indeed become a landmark in the Apple product line.

Edit: I'll add a response to the first video posted with Steve Job's own words - the youtuber asks why not just use a iphone? why not use a tv? why not use a macbook? The answer is this device is all three one in device - just like the iphone : "An iPod, a phone, and an Internet communicator. An iPod, a phone...are you getting it? These are not three separate devices. This is one device"
 
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Aurelius said:
There were a bunch of use cases that haven't really been done before. The 3D video capture and playback hasn't been done on this level. The ability to gradually transition between AR and VR? Also new. And I think you're underselling the significance of the hardware. This is a full-on computing platform where the resolution, performance and interface are finally good enough to replace some PCs. Like was said earlier, this headset doesn't ship until early 2024 — we can wait several months to see if developers make good use of it.

I don't think this is an iPhone moment where the interface and capability improvements are so huge and obvious that they completely change the industry. But I do think some of the short-sighted cynicism that greeted the iPod/iPhone/iPad is also present here. That is, it's focused on relatively minor areas where Apple falls short instead of seeing the broader picture. Yeah, the Index had clever controller input... but the Vision Pro has eye and hand tracking that largely eliminate the need for physical controllers. It won't be as useful for gaming but might be exceptional for everything else.
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The 3d capture is a gimmick. The Nintendo 3DS had 3D photography at launch, and the main drawback was no one else could view them. I get the quality of the hmd cameras are better than an old toy, but apple didn’t demo anything overcoming that limitation, short of buying another headset.

I don’t think I’m underselling the hardware, apple sure isn’t. But for that price tag, if it doesn’t have a killer app AND it is locked into a closed curated ecosystem, I don’t see it being successful. For a company that pretty much prints its own money, I feel this was rushed, and the software (while slick) is not the revolution they need.
 
It need from between now and then (and I imagine the strategy of early dev kit releas-annoucement to push developper interest) to have some apps, would it release now or if when it release next year it is what we seen today, it will be a rush launch for sure, but it will have evolved by Q1 2024.

We can expect Apple Watch V1-2 rushed still, but things should have evolved in the next 6-8 months.
 
sc5mu93 said:
The 3d capture is a gimmick. The Nintendo 3DS had 3D photography at launch, and the main drawback was no one else could view them. I get the quality of the hmd cameras are better than an old toy, but apple didn’t demo anything overcoming that limitation, short of buying another headset.

I don’t think I’m underselling the hardware, apple sure isn’t. But for that price tag, if it doesn’t have a killer app AND it is locked into a closed curated ecosystem, I don’t see it being successful. For a company that pretty much prints its own money, I feel this was rushed, and the software (while slick) is not the revolution they need.
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You may well be right about 3D capture, but we'll have to see. It'll stand a better chance of survival simply because of Apple's recognition and the reported quality (it apparently feels like you're stepping into a memory).

I definitely agree about the need for killer apps. Apple does have the advantage of the iPhone/iPad library, but there should be at least one "this is why you buy it" app if possible.
 
Ah, I see the ragebait for clicks content is in full swing.
 
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Aurelius said:
You may well be right about 3D capture, but we'll have to see. It'll stand a better chance of survival simply because of Apple's recognition and the reported quality (it apparently feels like you're stepping into a memory).

I definitely agree about the need for killer apps. Apple does have the advantage of the iPhone/iPad library, but there should be at least one "this is why you buy it" app if possible.
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I feel like they needed to focus on the VR aspect more. Primarily gaming. It’s 3500 dollar luxury item. Instead they seemed to market it toward work and interpersonal comms, to which it didn’t appear to address any real deficiencies in those spaces. The whole thing left me scratching my head.
 
Aurelius said:
You may well be right about 3D capture, but we'll have to see. It'll stand a better chance of survival simply because of Apple's recognition and the reported quality (it apparently feels like you're stepping into a memory).

I definitely agree about the need for killer apps. Apple does have the advantage of the iPhone/iPad library, but there should be at least one "this is why you buy it" app if possible.
Click to expand...

If the 3D capture actually lets you capture 180 degree 3D video which is standard for VR video, it would be awesome for creating POV VR videos which can be viewed on any VR device. And I think you know exactly what kind it would be used for.

But it seemed like it only captured a tiny FOV from the presentation they showed, but maybe it's a setting or something.
 
I'm failing to see how this is helpful outside of maybe a few niche cases, but time will tell. I am not sure what it will do that screens don't do better in 98% of use cases. I don't want my charts translucent and seeing people walk in the background. Makes it harder to read the info.

Plus it looks goofy and uncomfortable. Who in their right mind would walk around daily with this contraption strapped to their face?
 
Flogger23m said:
ho in their right mind would walk around daily with this contraption strapped to their face?
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It only has 2 hours of battery when unplug I think (and quite heavy apparently, it is a more of an demo), no one would or can walk around daily with this strapped on their face I think.
 
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Flogger23m said:
I'm failing to see how this is helpful outside of maybe a few niche cases, but time will tell. I am not sure what it will do that screens don't do better in 98% of use cases. I don't want my charts translucent and seeing people walk in the background. Makes it harder to read the info.

Plus it looks goofy and uncomfortable. Who in their right mind would walk around daily with this contraption strapped to their face?
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They don't have to be translucent. You could go full VR mode and not even see the real world if you want. And you could have any kinds of screens you want. People have been asking for this ever since VR headsets were a thing, but they've always been too low resolution.


I don't think they plan for people to walk around with it... YET. They didn't show people walking around in the presentation, it was always doing something specific. But I think the future vision is you would wear it walking around everywhere, the hardware isn't there yet though. You would want it to be much smaller and more comfortable. More like contact lenses.
 
sharknice said:
They don't have to be translucent. You could go full VR mode and not even see the real world if you want. And you could have any kinds of screens you want. People have been asking for this ever since VR headsets were a thing, but they've always been too low resolution.


I don't think they plan for people to walk around with it... YET. They didn't show people walking around in the presentation, it was always doing something specific. But I think the future vision is you would wear it walking around everywhere, the hardware isn't there yet though. You would want it to be much smaller and more comfortable. More like contact lenses.
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If anything, I think the mobility is just to move about freely in your home or office, not out in public. Even in your own home people hate being tethered by wires while using VR. It's why the Quest is so popular. The battery life on the Vision Pro isn't much worse than the Quest 2 despite having a lot more processing power.
 
Flogger23m said:
I'm failing to see how this is helpful outside of maybe a few niche cases, but time will tell. I am not sure what it will do that screens don't do better in 98% of use cases. I don't want my charts translucent and seeing people walk in the background. Makes it harder to read the info.

Plus it looks goofy and uncomfortable. Who in their right mind would walk around daily with this contraption strapped to their face?
Click to expand...
Price is too high for this to be mainstream yet. But, in pro segment, it has many uses. Construction companies in my country use BIM models for all new large projects, there are presentations in other business segments that can benefit greatly from a decent AR and VR. VR is uncomfortable to use for presentations, since it disorients many when blocking off the real world totally.

sharknice mentioned above the problems with too low resolution in AR on lots of current devices. Doing work in AR can be beneficial if you need to do both virtual work and access documents and items in real world at the same time. If you have meetings, board meeting, remote training sections etc, it beats any video conference call in many cases. This headset might be able to pull that off. Eyetracked foveated rendering, high resolution and good handtracking looked like great features for this as well.

But, I agree it looks too heavy and uncomfortable for spreadsheet work, charts and similar tasks in a normal office.

It would gain access to a huge library of games with access to SteamVR streaming like Quest 2 can or if it gets Virtual Desktop app support, so it doesn´t need to start from scratch when it comes to gaming. But, I saw nothing about a controller to pair with this, so people would have to use lighthouses and Index controllers for now.

Don´t like the Apple ecosystem though ... Must be said ... :p
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Price is too high for this to be mainstream yet. But, in pro segment, it has many uses. Construction companies in my country use BIM models for all new large projects, there are presentations in other business segments that can benefit greatly from a decent AR and VR. VR is uncomfortable to use for presentations, since it disorients many when blocking off the real world totally.

sharknice mentioned above the problems with too low resolution in AR on lots of current devices. Doing work in AR can be beneficial if you need to do both virtual work and access documents and items in real world at the same time. If you have meetings, board meeting, remote training sections etc, it beats any video conference call in many cases. This headset might be able to pull that off. Eyetracked foveated rendering, high resolution and good handtracking looked like great features for this as well.

But, I agree it looks too heavy and uncomfortable for spreadsheet work, charts and similar tasks in a normal office.

It would gain access to a huge library of games with access to SteamVR streaming like Quest 2 can or if it gets Virtual Desktop app support, so it doesn´t need to start from scratch when it comes to gaming. But, I saw nothing about a controller to pair with this, so people would have to use lighthouses and Index controllers for now.

Don´t like the Apple ecosystem though ... Must be said ... :p
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Hopefully we can get something like Virtual Desktop and third party controllers. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't allow it though. They want to all the revenue flowing through their app store, if people could use PCVR they get nothing except the hardware sale, which isn't enough for them.
 
They need to invent glasses, that can do vr, have some kind of light shield without a real cover. so look like a normal pair of glasses. but can do everything this can do.

we might get there someday. but still not soon.
 
I can’t help but assume a large proportion of sales will be for adult only VR content.
 
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