AMD Ryzen 8000G Processors Launched for the AI PC Era + 5 series updates

ZodaEX said:
For my money. Obviously. In case you don't know, the primary objective for businesses is to generate revenue.
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Extended support was over like 4 years ago. Mainstream was almost a decade back. It's basically under feature lock for years.

All that's left is the ESU plans that you need to purchase for unholy amounts through special volume licensing plans that are unavailable to mortals. You basically just get security patches. It's for shit like kiosks and point of sale machines

It's dead, a new GPU is outside the realm of what's left. Ain't nobody maintaining a fork of the GPU drivers that's 20 driver framework versions behind. The ESU model isn't meant to support this.
 
Fun fact, the overwhelming bulk of the things people hate about Windows 11 and its telemetry can be permanently disabled by declaring your Internet connection as Metered, Microsoft already lost that lawsuit, and re-enabling telemetry, advertising, automatic downloads, or anything else over that would just land them in another they would be guaranteed to loose.
Microsoft has no means of knowing if your internet is or is not metered, so you check that box and they have to assume it is.
 
ZodaEX said:
For my money. Obviously. In case you don't know, the primary objective for businesses is to generate revenue.
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If you run a business then you shouldn't be using an OS like Windows 7 just from a security point of view. There are some cases where you need to run Windows 7 for old legacy applications and hardware, but if you're not then you just want to run Windows 7 because you hate to deal with change. This is why I left Windows for Linux, because I know eventually I'd have to switch over to Windows 11 just or security updates.
 
Lakados said:
Fun fact, the overwhelming bulk of the things people hate about Windows 11 and its telemetry can be permanently disabled by declaring your Internet connection as Metered, Microsoft already lost that lawsuit, and re-enabling telemetry, advertising, automatic downloads, or anything else over that would just land them in another they would be guaranteed to loose.
Microsoft has no means of knowing if your internet is or is not metered, so you check that box and they have to assume it is.
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Does that change the way windows updates works?
 
serpretetsky said:
Does that change the way windows updates works?
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As long as you don't check this box.
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ZodaEX said:
For my money. Obviously. In case you don't know, the primary objective for businesses is to generate revenue.
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Of course, AMD will lose so much revenue for not continuing support for an OS that, as of literally today, has been dead for 4 years.

ZodaEX said:
Without Window 7 drivers, these clown APUs are a hard pass.
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Without any logic, these clown posts are a hard pass.
 
How unfortunate. I mean, especially with the new whiz-bang AI widget, integrated GPU that is supposed to be decent at least on the high end, and the like that they'd include the full capability of PCI-E 5.0 lanes if for no other reason than it makes for more bandwidth when used for bifurcation and similar usages, aside from raw performance.
 
socK said:
Single channel DDR??
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It looks like the single-channel memory may just be a typo

I could get why they would go all-in on the iGPU budget over lane, cache, etc... how common would the usage be a very entry level gaming pc ? that will never use any extension outside say 2-3 harddrive anyway.
 
More and more these just look like AMD scaled up their Mobile Silicon, this is the sort of configuration you see in their gaming laptops.
These chips scream put me in a micro mITX chassis with a 200w PSU and call it a day, it doesn't look like putting a dGPU was ever really intended for the platform which is fine, it really is, pair these with a 620 chipset and it's balanced, but the price of those mITX 620 boards are 2x what they should be. The launch of these CPUs better come with some appropriately cheap boards, because putting these with a full ATX or even an mATX board is just a waste.
Instead of even trying to build one from scratch I'm more likely to keep an eye out for a Barebones NUC-like option, Ugg.
 
Lakados said:
More and more these just look like AMD scaled up their Mobile Silicon, this is the sort of configuration you see in their gaming laptops.
These chips scream put me in a micro mITX chassis with a 200w PSU and call it a day, it doesn't look like putting a dGPU was ever really intended for the platform which is fine, it really is, pair these with a 620 chipset and it's balanced, but the price of those mITX 620 boards are 2x what they should be. The launch of these CPUs better come with some appropriately cheap boards, because putting these with a full ATX or even an mATX board is just a waste.
Instead of even trying to build one from scratch I'm more likely to keep an eye out for a Barebones NUC-like option, Ugg.
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Besides all the extra AI bullshit we don't want to pay for. They might make a great HTPC movie box if they support AV1 hw decode in these CPUs.
 
tangoseal said:
Besides all the extra AI bullshit we don't want to pay for. They might make a great HTPC movie box if they support AV1 hw decode in these CPUs.
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Windows and newer Linux kernels are starting to use it. Having and not having the NPU accelerators makes a noticeable difference in CoPilot, as well as some other things. Supposedly upscaling and image enhancements that use them will be coming to things like Photos, and Search might start utilizing it for better indexing, little background tasks like that. It’s just not something the users choose to use, it just happens in the background.

Fortunately though AV1 came in a late 2022 or early 2023 driver update so it’s there, it would be strange for them to strip it from these units.
 
Lakados said:
Fun fact, the overwhelming bulk of the things people hate about Windows 11 and its telemetry can be permanently disabled by declaring your Internet connection as Metered, Microsoft already lost that lawsuit, and re-enabling telemetry, advertising, automatic downloads, or anything else over that would just land them in another they would be guaranteed to loose.
Microsoft has no means of knowing if your internet is or is not metered, so you check that box and they have to assume it is.
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I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing this, because that is the main thing I hate about Windows 11.
 
DukenukemX said:
If you run a business then you shouldn't be using an OS like Windows 7 just from a security point of view. There are some cases where you need to run Windows 7 for old legacy applications and hardware, but if you're not then you just want to run Windows 7 because you hate to deal with change. This is why I left Windows for Linux, because I know eventually I'd have to switch over to Windows 11 just or security updates.
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Cries in 98SE.

I’ve applied for a $400K grant so I can afford to get rid of it.
 
HockeyJon said:
I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing this, because that is the main thing I hate about Windows 11.
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Yeah they added it because lots of people out there need to use 5G as their primary internet and it’s really easy to blow through a data cap as is there, let alone with some 20GB in Windows updates and other telemetry data you didn’t even know about.
 
Lakados said:
Yeah they added it because lots of people out there need to use 5G as their primary internet and it’s really easy to blow through a data cap as is there, let alone with some 20GB in Windows updates and other telemetry data you didn’t even know about.
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Yep. I hate that and I hate websites with auto play ads that needless chew up data. All the same thing, but it’s worse when it’s the operating system itself, one which I needed to purchase a license for in order to use.
 
8700G has peaked my interest in an APU. Maybe time again to put the Commodore 64 case back in use. Would prefer Linux over Windows in this case. Downgrade to 45w, do what I can to maximize boost frequency with the lower setting.
 
Lakados said:
Fun fact, the overwhelming bulk of the things people hate about Windows 11 and its telemetry can be permanently disabled by declaring your Internet connection as Metered, Microsoft already lost that lawsuit, and re-enabling telemetry, advertising, automatic downloads, or anything else over that would just land them in another they would be guaranteed to loose.
Microsoft has no means of knowing if your internet is or is not metered, so you check that box and they have to assume it is.
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Good to know.
 
travm said:
I'm going to assume the cost to create and maintain Windows 7 drivers far exceeds the $50 they stand to make from a sale to you.
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Would he buy a new license for it instead of recycle one.... The idea in 2024 that someone can casually know more about making money than Microsoft....
 
Endgame said:
I'd much rather they dump the iGPU and use the same number of transistors for a L4 cache. Would be more useful that an iGPU I'm always going to disable and never use.
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The iGPU on all Zen 4 mainline chips (desktop 7K series) is a extremely basic one built into the I/O die whose purpose is basically to display an output to a screen. It can't do anything really except help diagnose issues and/or do minor office tasks. It is and was not designed for anything else. You should like this. It is good, and the 'L4' cache is basically the X3D parts which is faster anyway with it being on-die with the actual cores.

The new G series chips are all designed as an APU, that is they are specifically for customers who want a strong iGPU & a good CPU. The CPU in their G series chips is not as performant (less cache) than the mainline Zen 4 desktop chips. In truth they are the Phoenix (ryzen mobile 7040 series) on desktop. There are use cases for customers who might want this chip. One chip systems, HTPC's, SFF systems, ect. machines that could use the extra GPU output compared to the main desktop Zen 4 chips. They could also be very useful in an office enviroment where the better GPU could run multiple monitors and preform Hardware Accelerated tasks.

In short, just because these APU's are not for you does not make them bad, nor does it mean they don't have a market that has been eagerly awaiting chips to replace the Zen 3 desktop APU's and finally get off of VEGA iGPU's.
 
Lakados said:
More and more these just look like AMD scaled up their Mobile Silicon, this is the sort of configuration you see in their gaming laptops.
These chips scream put me in a micro mITX chassis with a 200w PSU and call it a day, it doesn't look like putting a dGPU was ever really intended for the platform which is fine, it really is, pair these with a 620 chipset and it's balanced, but the price of those mITX 620 boards are 2x what they should be. The launch of these CPUs better come with some appropriately cheap boards, because putting these with a full ATX or even an mATX board is just a waste.
Instead of even trying to build one from scratch I'm more likely to keep an eye out for a Barebones NUC-like option, Ugg.
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That's what the G chips have been for a while. The laptop dies with a desktop TDP and probably more I/O than the laptops.

I haven't looked at ITX prices, but if you're looking for cheap, it's not going to be ITX. There's a couple of $75 a620 boards, probably mATX. It might be wasteful in terms of space, but not in terms of dollars.
 
KazeoHin said:
Agreed, but that's only on the ZenC core models, which are primarily designed for low power, not performance.
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I always hear that the performance of the ZenC is the same as regular, but uses less space? If ZenC is really low power then that means AMD went Big Little core design like Apple and Intel.
 
DukenukemX said:
I always hear that the performance of the ZenC is the same as regular, but uses less space? If ZenC is really low power then that means AMD went Big Little core design like Apple and Intel.
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Both Zen 4 and 4c each have the same IPC, so it isn't Big.Little or E cores or anything like that even though it won't clock as high.
More info on it here.

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DukenukemX said:
I always hear that the performance of the ZenC is the same as regular, but uses less space? If ZenC is really low power then that means AMD went Big Little core design like Apple and Intel.
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I guess zenc consumes same power at same freq as normal zen

But it is die space/area efficient and hard limited to how high it can clock — useful primarily for server workloads (& obviously marketing)
 
Marees said:
I guess zenc consumes same power at same freq as normal zen

But it is die space/area efficient and hard limited to how high it can clock — useful primarily for server workloads (& obviously marketing)
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Zen4c should be less power at a given clock than Zen4 too. The size reduction is mostly reducing buffers and such needed to keep signals sane at high clocks, and those take up space and power. A little bit more space saved because they removed the attachments for X3D, but I think mobile Zen dropped those attachments anyway.

It's definitely a good tradeoff for high density server, those aren't ever clocking high. I think mobile makes sense too --- it's hard to get enough power and cooling in a laptop to keep all cores at high clocks, so it makes sense to have some cores that can clock high for 'hurry up and wait' and some cores that can't clock high to run when you have more work than the fast cores can handle.
 
Lakados said:
Yeah they added it because lots of people out there need to use 5G as their primary internet and it’s really easy to blow through a data cap as is there, let alone with some 20GB in Windows updates and other telemetry data you didn’t even know about.
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To be fair anyone using Comcast is also on a metered connection, just has a large cap. I just think it's getting out of hand how much they think they get to monitor my computer usage.
 
Dopamin3 said:
Ryzen 8000 APUs seem to support ECC (depending on the motherboard, which is mostly supported on non MSI boards). That's a nice change since on AM4 you had to get a harder to find "Pro" APU if you wanted ECC support. Could be interesting to use the GPU in virtualized applications.

View attachment 627693

https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066
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That is weather or not it supports the ECC functions built into DDR5 which is different than “full” ECC which has been changed to the RDIMM format so the chips don’t physically fit into standard DDR5 sockets.
This is actually super annoying that AMD made support for something you are installing no matter what (as ECC is a required part of the DDR5 spec) optional.
Their board partners cheap out and still charge what they are for those boards makes me cranky.
 
Lakados said:
That is weather or not it supports the ECC functions built into DDR5 which is different than “full” ECC which has been changed to the RDIMM format so the chips don’t physically fit into standard DDR5 sockets.
This is actually super annoying that AMD made support for something you are installing no matter what (as ECC is a required part of the DDR5 spec) optional.
Their board partners cheap out and still charge what they are for those boards makes me cranky.
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You can still get unbuffered ECC for DDR5 like: https://www.provantage.com/kingston-technology-ksm48e40bd8km-32hm~7KINN0E4.htm . You don't need RDIMM.
 
Wow after finding out the specs of the 8300 and 8500, no thanks. Those CPUs are friggin dookie. No wonder they are OEM only.
 
Lakados said:
That’s my point all DDR5 has ECC you can’t buy DDR5 that doesn’t.

But those chips you link there don’t have the full ECC which detects side band corruption only the single bit errors which is common to all DDR5 modules.
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The dimms Dopamin linked have 10 chips, that's for real side band ECC. Non-ECC ddr5 has 8 chips; on die ECC is still there, but afaik, doesn't have reporting and definitely doesn't cover corruption on the memory bus.
 
toast0 said:
The dimms Dopamin linked have 10 chips, that's for real side band ECC. Non-ECC ddr5 has 8 chips; on die ECC is still there, but afaik, doesn't have reporting and definitely doesn't cover corruption on the memory bus.
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Learn something new every day I guess.
 
Lakados said:
Learn something new every day I guess.
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https://www.servethehome.com/unbuffered-registered-ecc-memory-difference-ecc-udimms-rdimms/

Good explainer (albeit dated). On AMD AM4/AM5 you need unbuffered ECC DDR4/DDR5 but when you move up to the server platforms (and maybe HEDT??) you start to see registered ECC support. RDIMMs don't work with any gen Ryzen.

I'm so disappointed with MSI for not supporting this. Gigabyte/Asrock/Asus all support it across the majority of their boards. All Ryzen generations make great home/SMB servers and ECC is a must-have for some use cases. On AM4 pretty much only Asrock Rack made a proper server board, now with AM5 we have offerings from Supermicro, Tyan, Asrock Rack, and Gigabyte that have BMCs.
 
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