All IPS panels suffer from "image persistence"?

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CAPPLE

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I had early 24 imac model which had rather horrible image burn in or persistence whatever you wanna call it. It was replaced by NEC 2490 3-4months ago and it starts doing the same thing on the right side of the screen. Funny thing is neither of them had that problem for the first few months. So my question is, do I just have live with it as long Im using IPS or did I just have bad luck and need to have the screen replaced. What I dont understand is why it gets worse over time..
 
I'd call NEC and RMA it. I've had no such problems on my AS-IPS 20wmgx2 thus far. *knock on wood*
 
My NEC 20WMGX2 has some image retention, but it doesn't bother me too much because it goes away as fast as it comes.

For the past 3 years I've had it I've been using the native color setting on this lcd, until recently I tried ToastyX's RGB calibrated settings and ICC profile. Everything looks noticeably better now, less greenish and yellow.
 
Neither of my 20WMGX2 monitors have ever suffered even a little bit of image retention.
 
None of my 4 different IPS monitors every had any problems with retention at all.
 
I use a Dell 2007FP IPS at work all day. You can sometimes see image retention while viewing large monotone areas of color, mostly gray backgrounds. In my case, it's usually an Excel sheet or the last CAD program I was using. It doesn't persist for long, any image movement clears it out. So far I've not seen any permanent damage. This is nothing like first generation plasma TV image retention though, it's not even much of an annoyance either.
 
Nope, never seen it on my 2490.

What mechanism would cause this? Since LCDs are a technology where a backlight is blocked, not a phosphor technology like plasma or CRT (which are confirmed to have the possibility of IR), what would possibly cause this?
 
Image retention is a panel quality and heat related issue.
If any LCD screen gets too warm, it will get image persistence.
Check to see if your screens are getting too warm, cool them if necessary.
 
I have a Dell 2005FPW that has image persistence on the left side. If there is any picture at all you can't see it. However, on a black screen you can clearly see it is from where the former owner had their AIM buddy list docked on the side. You can even read some of the names. I've had the monitor since October so I do believe it is permanent.
 
It's most certainly heat related in my instance. My Dell is on at least 9 hrs a day, and I never usually leave it long enough for DPMS to kick in. You also notice it's only certain colors, a very dim red on gray pixels.
 
My NEC 20WMGX2 has done it since I got it and it is not heat related at all as far as I can tell. Doesn't bother me much though because it goes away so fast.
 
My Dell 2001fp had image persistance. When I switched over to a different machine I'd still be able to see the outline of my main machine's Windows 2000 UI, specifically the task bar, start button, notification area, and quick launch icons. The persistance would last at least 20 minutes, possibly hours. Part of the reason it was so noticable is that I use a 5 row high taskbar on my main windows machine.

It may have taken 3-4 years for the persistance to start, at least I don't remember noticing it right away. The machine did display that same taskbar 16+ hours a day, almost every day of the year. So it could've been due simply to the panel aging, or it could've been due to having the same image displayed for 3+ years. As I recall the persistant image was still there even after 8-10 hours of it being in sleep mode.

I've been using the 2001fp as a makeshift television display for a few days, since the old tube TV in the living room just died. I just looked at it and could see no signs of my old task bar, so whatever caused it, it wasn't permenant.

I now have a 5 month old lp2475w, that's being used in the same way with a Vista box. I justed switched it over to some other machines and didn't see any persistance. One difference between the new Vista box, and the old 2k box, is that the task bar is now black instead of light grey.
 
I'd still like to know what's causing the IR in this case. There's no phosphor aging involved, that "function" is in the backlight and it ages the entire screen's brightness. The LCD cells themselves are not supposed to wear and if they did, shouldn't wear in a way that would tint pictures with the retained image. I would expect LCD cell wear to manifest as an increase in stuck/dead pixels, if anything.

I'm wondering if it is actually a particular type of tint/filter which creates the R/G/B subpixels is bleaching in the light of certain backlights. Does anyone recall if the tint film is in front of, or behind the actual LCD pixel? If behind, it should all be aged evenly by the backlight since it is exposed to the light whether the subpixel is on or off. If the tint is placed in front of the LCD pixel, then it is exposed to different levels of light depending on the displayed subject matter and can age unevenly.

So, this could depend on:

- what layer in the sandwich carries the tint/filters between models or manufacturers
- chemical composition of the tint/filters
- properties of the backlight (wavelengths, tendency to bleach out colour)
- intensity of the backlight (high intensity causes more rapid aging)
- temperature, probably related to intensity, it may affect multiple aging factors.
 
It is the LCD crystals themselves getting stuck / having a limited operating range.
How easy it is to get depends on the LCD panels design and operating temperature.
There will always be some individual panels that are more prone to it (ie out of spec, faulty) but there are larger differences between some panel types.
 
Surly73 said:
I'd still like to know what's causing the IR in this case. There's no phosphor aging involved, that "function" is in the backlight and it ages the entire screen's brightness. The LCD cells themselves are not supposed to wear and if they did, shouldn't wear in a way that would tint pictures with the retained image. I would expect LCD cell wear to manifest as an increase in stuck/dead pixels, if anything.

I'm wondering if it is actually a particular type of tint/filter which creates the R/G/B subpixels is bleaching in the light of certain backlights. Does anyone recall if the tint film is in front of, or behind the actual LCD pixel? If behind, it should all be aged evenly by the backlight since it is exposed to the light whether the subpixel is on or off. If the tint is placed in front of the LCD pixel, then it is exposed to different levels of light depending on the displayed subject matter and can age unevenly.

So, this could depend on:

- what layer in the sandwich carries the tint/filters between models or manufacturers
- chemical composition of the tint/filters
- properties of the backlight (wavelengths, tendency to bleach out colour)
- intensity of the backlight (high intensity causes more rapid aging)
- temperature, probably related to intensity, it may affect multiple aging factors.
Click to expand...

The crystals themselves do not block light, they polarize it. It doesn't matter where the tint is, as long as it's not on top of the top polarizer, which obviously it is not. I doubt it would really age anyway.
 
nomu said:
The crystals themselves do not block light, they polarize it. It doesn't matter where the tint is, as long as it's not on top of the top polarizer, which obviously it is not. I doubt it would really age anyway.
Click to expand...

The sandwich of polarizer-crystal-polarizer blocks light, effectively, which is what I'm referring to when attempting to discuss where the primary filters are in relation to the backlight and the crystal. I'm not sure why you feel this technicality wouldn't negate the effect of where the filters are. Why are the colour filters "obviously" not on top of the upper polarizer? There are still more layers to the screen assembly beyond the second polarizer for the crystal itself - it isn't as if the colour filters would be on the outside of the screen if they were on top of the second polarizer.

However, I'm certainly not up on the exact sandwich structure used by the different manufacturers (ie. LG, Samsung) or different panel technologies (TN, PVA, IPS). I'd rather see someone provide a link to documentation on the matter rather than depend on "certainly" and "obviously" in this case since guessing isn't going to cut it in determining what's causing the effect.
 
Nenu said:
It is the LCD crystals themselves getting stuck / having a limited operating range.
How easy it is to get depends on the LCD panels design and operating temperature.
There will always be some individual panels that are more prone to it (ie out of spec, faulty) but there are larger differences between some panel types.
Click to expand...

Do you have proof that it's the cells themselves and not the sub-pixel colour filters?

Why would this technology develop a tendency to stay "a little polarized" and unable to transmit full brightness through the whole assembly? If this were common, we'd see Windows login boxes burned in to all corporate LCD discards just like with corporate CRTs, and we don't. Why would this type of wear be limited to IPS panels?
 
My old 2405FPW is S-PVA and has terrible image retention. Not much in the way of permanent damage, but all it takes to have issues is having something on the screen for a few minutes.
 
Molgera said:
My old 2405FPW is S-PVA and has terrible image retention. Not much in the way of permanent damage, but all it takes to have issues is having something on the screen for a few minutes.
Click to expand...

I still have my old 2405FPW...never noticed any issues with image retention.
 
I don't think this is generally an issue with LCD. Though I still use a screensaver anyway. (Might as well make the graphics card work a little harder to earn its keep...)
 
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