7800X3D will be an utter failure of a CPU

Slade said:
So far I've had my 7800x3d/asus 670e gaming build running on the beta asus bios 1401 with expo on and manual voltage settings for cpu since Saturday. The pc hasn't been doing much except getting rebuilt to be like my old system so when I swap the board into my current setup, it'll be just a few driver updates for the 4090 and minor configuration for my mouse and keyboard. Restoring all the gaming stores has been a mini nightmare. Epic store being the worst offender. Steam easiest being a copy/paste and it works job. A few games during copy had cannot read from source disk errors meaning some of those games had bad files and needed game verification.

I'm getting a proper AM5 cooler for it later this week which is another reason I'm doing the slow transition, but so far it's passed stability tests. I haven't really pushed the cpu yet as I've not set pbo, so essentially it's running stock with expo for memory at ddr 6000.
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That's exactly why I ditched Epic a year or two ago. Forced redownloading of every game after a Windows install/refresh when I've got it all backed up on a local RAID? No thanks.

OT, hopefully your settings turn out to work great. I'm kinda happy that I didn't immediately jump on the 7800X3D with these new issues popping up.
 
arestavo said:
That's exactly why I ditched Epic a year or two ago. Forced redownloading of every game after a Windows install/refresh when I've got it all backed up on a local RAID? No thanks.
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Wait, for real? You can't just tell it "hey, I got the files right here. Just verify it"?

That's amazing.
 
theres a work around for that. not that it has anything to do with the thread though...
 
You can trick the Epic launcher into recognizing your game backups. Tell it to start downloading. Pause the download, copy the files, and then it'll go from like 2% to 99% almost immediately.
 
Domingo said:
You can trick the Epic launcher into recognizing your game backups. Tell it to start downloading. Pause the download, copy the files, and then it'll go from like 2% to 99% almost immediately.
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Now do that for dozens (maybe hundreds) of games. Nope! GoG and Steam will remain my primary game launchers because they have an easy point to the game directory option.

Back on topic - I wonder if there are any AM5 boards out there that still don't have an updated BIOS yet. I bet several fell through the cracks.
 
pendragon1 said:
and if you happen to have one of those, just manually set the voltages...
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Easy enough for people who are comfortable navigating around a BIOS! Not so much for normal folks who don't even know how to update a BIOS, let alone set specific voltages in a long list of settings.
 
LittleBuddy said:
Normal folks buy prebuilt systems, likely don't even know what a 7800X3D is and probably don't have one.
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And there lies one issue - OEM boards that may have the issue and users who are clueless. It is what it is, I was just curious as to which boards may have not gotten a BIOS update yet. I'm sure boutique PC builders will have a similar issue.
 
pendragon1 said:
if you dont know what to do this stuff you shouldnt be building custom systems or early adopting. buy a dell.
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I think you missed the point.

The point being that there are boards out there in pre-built PCs from places that sell to clueless people.
 
Armenius said:
Updated build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7wRr4s. Should be up and running by the end of the month.

Important bits:
  • AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
  • ASUS ROG Strix B650E-F
  • G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR5-6000 CL30
  • Western Digital SN850X 2TB w/ Windows 11 Pro
First AMD system in 22 years!
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Thanks again for alerting me to this. The Linus Techtips review, in particular, spells out why the 7800X3D will have good longevity.

Interestingly, I also chose the ROG Strix motherboard. I’ve never purchased an AMD cpu - which, I guess, is why I wasn’t paying attention to this. LOL.
 
arestavo said:
And there lies one issue - OEM boards that may have the issue and users who are clueless. It is what it is, I was just curious as to which boards may have not gotten a BIOS update yet. I'm sure boutique PC builders will have a similar issue.
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I've dealt with a HP Omen prebuild with an HP OEM B450 motherboard. The bios has almost no options. The layout is non-standard so that it doesn't support standard components. The CPU cooler mounting isn't standard AM4, I think it used some Intel mounting pattern. There is no update to support CPU's beyond the Ryzen 3x00. The 3800x, 3900x, & 3950x aren't supported because the motherboard can't handle the power draw. OEM motherboards stink.
 
Domingo said:
You can trick the Epic launcher into recognizing your game backups. Tell it to start downloading. Pause the download, copy the files, and then it'll go from like 2% to 99% almost immediately.
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The current version requires a task manager end task on epic launcher then copy, then restart download. When I tried the old way of pause, then copy over then restart it just ERASED all the files I copied in the folder. Luckily I had the game on the backup still and did the end task method. I'm glad only a few games I have are on here that are unique. I would never actively want to make an epic purchase when given the option of steam.
 
pendragon1 said:
if you dont know what to do this stuff you shouldnt be building custom systems or early adopting. buy a dell.
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The issue is if someone buys a pre-built system from one of the major suppliers and the builder set the EXPO to on then it might have too high voltage. E.g. ibuypower, msi, alienware might do their job and turn on expo at the factory, but will they do a recall or make their buyers update the bios to a safe one? It is doubtful that many of those that buy a pre-built would be able to flash a bios and many of them probably shouldn't even mess around in a bios.
 
evhvis said:
The issue is if someone buys a pre-built system from one of the major suppliers and the builder set the EXPO to on then it might have too high voltage. E.g. ibuypower, msi, alienware might do their job and turn on expo at the factory, but will they do a recall or make their buyers update the bios to a safe one? It is doubtful that many of those that buy a pre-built would be able to flash a bios and many of them probably shouldn't even mess around in a bios.
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then they have warranty support.
 
While I understand the concern certainly and obviously the bugs and otherissues should be fixed (which seems to be the case as mobo manufacturers are offering updates swiftly), I think its important to put into context that these have been very rare circumstances. Even the GN video mentions that, and that having to find out how to replicate the circumstances take some time etc. So with that in mind there are a lot of people who seemingly have been running their (both AM5 X and X3D chips) with EXPO and maximum overclock with everything being fine, even prior to the update.

Am I correct that the voltage issue (and especially, the improper reporting which leads to safeguards failing to kick in ) is related to sleep/hibernation (perhaps just the latter) state? Thus, those who do not have the PC hibernating are not likely to have any issues we've seen thus far?

Slade said:
The current version requires a task manager end task on epic launcher then copy, then restart download. When I tried the old way of pause, then copy over then restart it just ERASED all the files I copied in the folder. Luckily I had the game on the backup still and did the end task method. I'm glad only a few games I have are on here that are unique. I would never actively want to make an epic purchase when given the option of steam.
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I vehemently object to Epic Store's business model and technical decisions in many cases from exclusivity to refusal to support Linux even for games that have a Linux client elsewhere etc.. (and, while I get that a free game is a free game, I caution users to remember that they give away these free games not just hoping for more sales, but almost more importantly to be able to use everyone grabbing them as "active users" when they try to convince some publisher how great it is to make the Faustian bargain of EGS exclusivity for the upcoming launch), if you are going to make use of Epic games, then I suggest using an alternative client.

https://heroicgameslauncher.com/ or https://legendary.gl/ - Heroic being more advanced and comprehensive last I checked, but both are worthwhile, libre/open source, and even (through WINE/Proton etc..similar projects) support Linux workarounds. Hope it helps!
 
KickAssCop said:
Does the system pass stability tests with this approach? Which tests have you performed to confirm this hypothesis?
Just asking as I am actively contemplating a 7800X3D and if this is that simple of a fix then I might as well do it sooner rather than later.
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This is my friend's build using 7950x + Asus B650E F Strix + Gskill 64gb kit of hynix kit (XMP rated 6000c40).
He got it running at 6200 28-36-36 trfc 403 with vddq / vdimm 1.425v, vsoc 1.19v, vdd misc / vddio 1.1v.

1683074127593.png
 
Even 1.4 V is super high. It seems especially dangerous if ASUS boards are not having thermal protection kick in based on GN video.

I am more worried about IMC than the ram kit itself.
 
KickAssCop said:
Even 1.4 V is super high. It seems especially dangerous if ASUS boards are not having thermal protection kick in based on GN video.

I am more worried about IMC than the ram kit itself.
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This is my previous ADL rig running without fan to ram, slotted in 2 dimm boards, and packed alongside ATX PSU :LOL:

1650418972379.jpg


That Patriot 16gb kit (4800c40, with custom rgb heatsink) ran at 6800 30-39-38-34 trfc 340 2T maxed out Trefi 262k at 1.58v ;)
12100F 16gb patriot 6800 30-39-38-34 trfc 340 2T Trefi 262k 1.58v.JPG


Right now, this setup is being used by my friend and he confirmed that from April 2022 (when he bought it from me), the OC profile I applied on him (6600 32-38-38-32 trfc 300 2T 1.45v) still intact today.
 
I ended up raising my VSOC to 1.175, 1.155 was stable but increased ram latency by .5-1ns. For MC/VDDIO I'm keeping it at 1.250, I tried lower down to 1.200 & 1.230 but had negative performance impacts (inconsistent ram latency and throughput). 1.175 VSOC / 1.250 VDDIO was a slight performance improvement over bios defaults of 1.300 VSOC / 1.350 VDDIO. I recommend retesting RAM performance when finding your set voltages. I used y-cruncher and aida64 & Ryzen DRAM Calculator (memory latency). I ran each test 3 times and recorded the results at each voltage.

I'm slightly irritated with the new Asus BIOS (1414 beta), it definitely has CPU performance regressions around 2-2.5% (compared to 1410 beta) even if I have the same effective clock, it makes no sense. I hope after the new agesa comes out they fix this.
 
Looks my 24 hr bancation from jedi survivor is done and got to play on the 7800x3d. The am5 platform low latency times is very noticable. On my 5800x3d, with rt on I was hovering around 75fps but the game made combat tricky as it would do small hitches that would wreck my parry timing on grand master. With the 7800x3d, the game is up to 99fps and the consistency is night and day. It still has traversal stutters, but significantly reduced. I was stopped by a weird tutorial bug instructing me to do a specific move but the game wouldn't register the input on both kb mouse and kb.
 
Slade said:
Looks my 24 hr bancation from jedi survivor is done and got to play on the 7800x3d. The am5 platform low latency times is very noticable. On my 5800x3d, with rt on I was hovering around 75fps but the game made combat tricky as it would do small hitches that would wreck my parry timing on grand master. With the 7800x3d, the game is up to 99fps and the consistency is night and day. It still has traversal stutters, but significantly reduced. I was stopped by a weird tutorial bug instructing me to do a specific move but the game wouldn't register the input on both kb mouse and kb.
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The day 3 patch really cleared up performance for Nvidia GPUs

 
arestavo said:
The day 3 patch really cleared up performance for Nvidia GPUs

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My testing was today only a few hours apart. The no error message ban seemed to have been cleared a lot quicker. My test compared am5 vs am4. I'll see tonight how it benefits other games but the latency improvement is quite real.
 
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Slade said:
Looks my 24 hr bancation from jedi survivor is done and got to play on the 7800x3d. The am5 platform low latency times is very noticable. On my 5800x3d, with rt on I was hovering around 75fps but the game made combat tricky as it would do small hitches that would wreck my parry timing on grand master. With the 7800x3d, the game is up to 99fps and the consistency is night and day. It still has traversal stutters, but significantly reduced. I was stopped by a weird tutorial bug instructing me to do a specific move but the game wouldn't register the input on both kb mouse and kb.
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Same here man I'm enjoying that free copy of jedi survivor on my 7800x3d + 4090. Been an entire month now with this system and nothing has exploded :D I'm not even going to bother to update to that latest agesa version because honestly if it ain't broken, I'm not going to try and fix it. SoC voltage has been sitting below 1.30v the entire time anyways.
 
Updated to the new 1602 Asus Bios (agesa 1.0.0.7) for my board. Here's a few bullet points in my limited testing.
  • CPU uses 5W Less than BIOS 1414 and 1410 (agesa 1.0.0.6) in Cinebench R23
  • CPU uses less power in games (tested 1) Tekken 7 would pull 30-32W on 1414/1410, now w/ 1602 the CPU pulls 27-29W.
  • CPU Package power is down 1-2W in idle.
  • CPU Performance is 1% faster than BIOS 1414 (agesa 1.0.0.6)
  • CPU Performance is 1.5% slower than BIOS 1410 (agesa 1.0.0.6)
  • CPU Thermals are about the same.
  • SOC Voltage defaulted to 1.05V (manually raised it to 1.155V)
  • MISC Voltage defaulted to 1.1V
  • VDDIO Voltage defaulted to 1.15V (manually raised it to 1.250V)
  • No CPU Core Voltage control in the BIOS (same as 1414)
 
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Im building a workstation for when I am in the office. Got a 7950X3D to swap with the 7950X in my home rig.

Testing it out today… I am not super stoked on it. I was getting around 43k on cinebench with the 7950x. The X3D is getting 36k. Both under the same custom loop with curve optimizer. Tried out a couple of games and couldn’t tell a difference. Star citizen seemed to run about the same.

I also had to turn off half the cores to test Star Citizen because it was running on both ccds. My 7950x is a pretty good example. During gaming loads it pegs out at 5455 due to lapping and the custom loop.

Thinking about draining my loop and swapping it back.
 
kalston said:
I'm not sure why you made that swap though, depending on what you do and even what games the 7950x will be better due to having higher clocks. It's totally a side grade.
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Because in two months my home computer will mostly be for gaming with occasional work use on special occasions, so it seemed like a good opportunity to pick up some performance and I had had to order the parts on short notice.
 
I finally got my memory and put it all together over the weekend. Don't know if this was the slow boots being referred to, but it takes at least 30 seconds just for the boot logo/BIOS screen to come up. Windows boots pretty quickly after that happens. I updated the BIOS to 1602 using the ASUS Flashback feature before booting it for the first time.
 
I got to play with various settings all weekend.

I ran my tests with all my background apps in play so my results aren't comparable to anyone's readings, but I found it interesting on my setup how it's working so far. Stock settings aren't comparable as the ram runs at 4800 instead of 6000.

AMD PBO - manual negative curve -35 -30 for top 2 cores. Mem: EXPO 2
P95 errors, effective clock in cinebench r23 was 4950mhz - When I ran this I thought maybe seeing 5050 boost effective clock was possible, but then
P95 was like nope I got errors on cores which lead me to tweak the weakest cores. This also produced the highest cinebench scores too.

AMD PBO - manual negative curve -35 for weaker cores -15 for 2nd best -30 for best core. Mem: EXPO2
Best effective clock in P95 small fft was 4020mhz, effective clock in cinebench r23 was 4825, core 2 and 3 just didn't boost as high I guess Core 6 is my best core, core 2 is normal, but is sensitive to core 3 being manipulated. I also tried a positive for the 2 best cores like my 58800x3d would take which allowed core 2 to dive back to -35 with no errors, but again the performance was just not there. This had cinebench scores lower than stock.

AMD PBO - eco mode 65 EXPO2
Best effective clock in P95 small fft was 4450mhz, effective clock in cinebench r23 was 4825
This produced lower cinebench scores than stock.

AMD PBO - eco mode 65 manual mem timings (I just noted all the settings of the ram from expo 2 and manually entered them)
Best effective clock in P95 small fft was 4450mhz, effective clock in cinebench r23 was 4825
Currently using this setting - scores higher consistently than EXPO2 which makes 0 sense to me I was within 99% of the manual negative curve extreme settings.
 
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Try Eco mode 65 with ram set to auto them tell us what happens. Don't be scared.
 
Anyone running their 7800x3d with SMT off? I ask because in the past HT would cause microstutter in games.
 
Stryker7314 said:
Anyone running their 7800x3d with SMT off? I ask because in the past HT would cause microstutter in games.
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I tried both setting, my game performance is better with SMT ON (7900X). The old school was to turn it off, but nowadays - most say leave it on. I'd say just test. SMT on any particular game is hit or miss currently.
 
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You can always use something like Process Lasso to tinker with HT and additional cores for the 7950 and 7900 X3D.
 
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