24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

I wanted to adjust some geometry, but when it came to horizontal I epicly failed, display just went mad. I guess that happened due to wrong horizontal clocks. WiNDAS states they should be as follows:

Vertical :

Total 1260
V. BLK 60
V. FP 1
V. SYNC 3
V. BP 56
V. ACTIV 1200

These can be easily put to CRU. Then there are values in micro seconds to horizontal but I have no idea how to calculate them to proper pixel values that could be used in CRU. Any help from you guys?
 
Did you go through the information I referenced in this post?

Anyway, it seems like those timings that you just listed are prime mode (though not sure). So just use 1920x1200 @ 85 hz and the rest should be good. You shouldn't even need CRU for prime mode.
 
Strange enough I left everything default and when it came to horizontal adjustments then boom. Have to try once again but....

For now I tried to go through white point balance without colorimeter. Not very clever, I was just curious how the thing works. Of course it's all messed up right now :D Even when I tried to load my backed up ,dat default file it seems all the way off. Maybe it does not contain color data.

Well, looks like until I get my Optix my FW900 is gone for good :p

Thank you for timing explanation, will do.

Is there any "reset button" in WinDAS or now I _need_ this calibrator?
 
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there's an MPU thing which resets everything i think. which is probably never a good idea as youll need to go through all the geometry stuff, which is not easy to get correct

while you wait for the dtp94, try adjusting the osd settings and see if you can get a usable image
 
Well some resetting here and there, image restoration, few horus warming, OSD adjusting and I got quite usable image. Not perfect, gamma is little non-linear, blacks are not as good as I used to correct them. But it remebered dynamic convergence, at least few hours saved :)

So it's fine for everyday use and still lot better than both LCDs standing next to it :p
 
igsux3 said:
Okay so first step done. I got back my service cable and made dynamic convergence adjustment. Heeesh what a lovely difference!

Now waiting for my Optix to arrive.

Could anyone please explain how to make proper geometry adjustment via windas? Read somewhere that pixel clocks have something to do with it. Pixel clocks would be great too. Made some experiments with CRU but it was more hit or miss rather than proper setting.

Last thing I wanted to do is adjusting sharpness knobs in the back of the monitor. In procedure menu in WinDAS I can see position 9: Focus Adjustment. Is this the same thing?
Click to expand...

For geometry you really have two major options. First is the geometry adjustments in the Touch-Up menu, and then you have the geometry adjustments in the procedures menu. The procedures menu is a lot more tedious than the Touch-up's menu. I've personally MPU'd my monitor once to see what the steps to getting it fully calibrated from scratch would entail. The biggest hinderance to MPU'ing the monitor is that it affects the landing and purity, which is impossible to nail correctly if you don't have the proper equipment.

Going from the top of my head (I'm sitting on the couch, just came home from work with my infant son trying to nurse and fussing while doing so :D)...

1. You begin with the VDC mode adjustment. This adjustment is a low-res mode of the FW900. Not sure what VDC actually stands for, but I believe this resolution is one of the factory presets. You get this aligned and within spec according to WinDAS steps. According to WinDAS, this must be set first for proper geometry tracking. I cannot remember the exact resolution WinDAS requests you to use for it though. Most of your adjustments are using the cross-hatch pattern.

2. After VDC is adjusted, you will then jump into the High resolution mode. I think this is Mode 6 - 2304x1440 80hz. You align everything when asked and continue through "Mid," "low" and "Prime mode."

3. After you complete the alignments, you will then be asked to do the factory preset alignment, which is a coarse adjustment of all the factory preset modes of the monitor. Note that if WinDAS detecs that you aren't using the proper mode, you will not be allowed to adjust that mode.

4. Once the factory preset is done, I believe you're to go to the landing procedure. This is where you adjust the purity of the monitor. I believe the intention of this is to adjust the purity both electronically and with the magnets on the back of the tube.

5. After the landing is adjusted, then you're given the option of doing the White Balance adjust. This is where you adjust the luminance levels and color temperatures of the monitor. This is also where you adjust your G2 levels for the monitor - the legit way (no editing DAT files). Depending on how accurate you want to be, this process can take a long time. Protip - if you're not interested in super accuracy, you can always hit the target within the tolerance range. Technically, this is still in spec.

6. After the white balance, you can do the focus. At first I wasn't sure about why this step was even in here. All it has you do is cycle through some MEME patterns and adjust the two trimpots in the back until it's clear. :) But then I ran into the WinDAS user manual, and the purpose of the procedure menu is to give you a list of logical steps to calibrating the monitor. So sooner or later, if you're installing a new tube or electronics (like the deflection yoke), you'd need to adjust the focus! The service manual actually has you do a rough adjustment of the focus, so I believe 100% that the intentions of Sony with this step was to get it fine-tuned after the rough adjustment.

7. Next you'll adjust the convergence. This one is a little trickier than it looks. I believe the intention is the electronically adjust the static convergence of the monitor, while adjusting the convergence magnets on the back of the tube. I think it makes mention of that. You're given the task of adjusting the convergence of the monitor in Prime Mode (1920x1200 85hz) and in low-res (not sure - 640x480? don't remember).

8.After all of this, then you do the Final Setting. This is where you "seal the deal" of your calibration.

Like flod mentioned, there's really no need to MPU the monitor unless it's absolutely wrecked. Before you do ANY adjustments on the monitor, press and hold the "Reset" button until all settings are reset. Based on my experience, the monitor will, over time, store many "user" resolutions (any resolution not meeting its factory preset resolution gets created in the User memory). This is a good function, but will sometimes "confuse" the monitor's controller board and lead it to report false resolutions to WinDAS. So if you select Prime mode, which is Mode 5, on a monitor that has not been reset, it may report something like Mode 13.

If you're going to adjust the geometry, I'd start with the Touch-up menu first. The Procedures menu will have you adjusting both vertical and horizontal linearity, which is an absolute BITCH to get right. Sadly - very sadly, I might add - Sony did NOT allow you to adjust the ASC button's calibration in the touch-up menu. So if you hit the ASC button and it doesn't switch to 4:3, then your only recourse to get it back to normal is to go through the procedures. Is it worth it? :)

I may have gotten my ordering incorrect on the procedures, so I apologize if I have. Hopefully my post has given you a good rough guide on all the procedures in WinDAS.
 
The hardest part of geometry adjustment is the pin cushion stuff - ugh it can drive one nuts! Next time I do it I'll try to figure out a reliable protocol.
 
flod said:
you can adjust purity in windas???
Click to expand...

No, landing and purity were mentioned together because I view the two as the same. Unless I'm wrong (Unlke Vito?). I believe you're supposed to adjust purity with the purity poles until you get it right and then in WinDAS perform the fine tuned adjustments. But yes - MPU'ing the monitor will affect the purity/landing of the screen.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Not really sure. And nowhere in the WinDAS manual will you find this information either.
Click to expand...

yea I doubt it would be in there.

I used a straight object (like a pencil), and placed it perpendicular to screen. I then lined up one of my eyes along the object and took distance measurements that way. It's tedious though, especially when you're trying to hold a tape measure.
 
for geometry i make my own images like this:
http://i.imgur.com/mnHc4Wy.png
and adjust the dimensions until the image's edge is right in the center of the image's black line and the absolute border of the phosphor stripes.

this way there's no parallax to worry about at all, but it's quite tedious to calculate the positioning of the black lines.
 
So you are measuring distance by # of phosphor stripes across the image? How do you know how wide each phosphor stripe is? And you still have to line up the image with some part of the screen, so there's parallax error still. I get the feeling I'm completely missing your method.
 
look at the left edge of your monitor in a lit room

from left to right you'll see the gray bezel, a very dark region with no phosphors, a region of unlit phosphors that isn't scanned by the image, and then the image.

(i think) the size of the entire region of phosphors is given in the operating manual as the viewable image size.
for mine it's at https://docs.sony.com/release/CPDG520P.PDF pg21

for simplicity let's assume it's 410x310mm and let's say i want a centered image with a size of 400x300 mm. so i know that the image's left edge should be placed 5mm from the left boundary of all the phosphors, and likewise for the image's right edge.

so for my method i'd make an image where, once the width is set correctly, there is a black line 5mm inside the left and right edges of the image. with this image i can just adjust the width/positioning until the left edge of the image is right in the middle of the black line and the border of the phosphors

to know which pixel(s) to draw the black line at: assume that the crt has perfect linearity. in the 400mm width of the image there are 1600 pixels, so we have (1600/400)=4 pixels per mm. so 5mm = 20 pixels, and i'd draw the black line at the 21th pixel
 
I see, clever. And the fact that the width and positioning controls are discrete means it's pretty easy to judge when the edge of image is perfectly centered between phosphor border and black line - hell, even if it were perfectly continuous (which wouldn't work very well with an aperture grille) the eye is a pretty good judge of midpoints on that scale.
 
My FW900 is malfunctioning and I don't know what is wrong with it. I had it running pretty constantly for a couple of days, then I shut down my computer and powered off the monitor. About an hour later I rechecked all the cables then turned on the computer and monitor again. At first everything was fine, but when the computer booted into Windows I heard a sort of popping sound, then the image on the screen started to grow progressively more dim until there was nothing left on the screen. Now nothing will show up on the screen, even if I turn off the monitor and turn it back on. It will make the sound like when you are changing resolutions or powering on the monitor normally but nothing shows up on screen.

Any idea what could be causing this?

I am eligible for a free calibration from Unkle Vito so I could have him check it out of course, but I don't live real close (about three hours drive) and I'm definitely not going to pay for shipping!

Is this something I could repair myself?

Any feedback or assistance is appreciated.
 
jrodefeld said:
My FW900 is malfunctioning and I don't know what is wrong with it. I had it running pretty constantly for a couple of days, then I shut down my computer and powered off the monitor. About an hour later I rechecked all the cables then turned on the computer and monitor again. At first everything was fine, but when the computer booted into Windows I heard a sort of popping sound, then the image on the screen started to grow progressively more dim until there was nothing left on the screen. Now nothing will show up on the screen, even if I turn off the monitor and turn it back on. It will make the sound like when you are changing resolutions or powering on the monitor normally but nothing shows up on screen.

Any idea what could be causing this?

I am eligible for a free calibration from Unkle Vito so I could have him check it out of course, but I don't live real close (about three hours drive) and I'm definitely not going to pay for shipping!

Is this something I could repair myself?

Any feedback or assistance is appreciated.
Click to expand...

I believe the Flyback Transformer failed which is what happened to mine, supposedly you can replace it fairly easily if you replace the whole board it's attached to, but I'd wait for a more experienced answer in case I'm totally wrong lol.
 
jrodefeld said:
My FW900 is malfunctioning and I don't know what is wrong with it. I had it running pretty constantly for a couple of days, then I shut down my computer and powered off the monitor. About an hour later I rechecked all the cables then turned on the computer and monitor again. At first everything was fine, but when the computer booted into Windows I heard a sort of popping sound, then the image on the screen started to grow progressively more dim until there was nothing left on the screen. Now nothing will show up on the screen, even if I turn off the monitor and turn it back on. It will make the sound like when you are changing resolutions or powering on the monitor normally but nothing shows up on screen.

Any idea what could be causing this?

I am eligible for a free calibration from Unkle Vito so I could have him check it out of course, but I don't live real close (about three hours drive) and I'm definitely not going to pay for shipping!

Is this something I could repair myself?

Any feedback or assistance is appreciated.
Click to expand...

You had a transformer failure. I wouldn't fool with it unless your really know what you are doing. A CRT has tens of thousands of volts in it.
 
Add my vote in for FBT failure. Off-topic, but today I scored a Sony 32-inch FD Trinitron TV. :) Gotta love Goodwill sometimes. Cost only $3! KV-32HS420. So far, so good. Has a geometry error that's pretty pronounced though, so I'll calibrate it. Apparently it has built-in patterns in the service menu. Sweet.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I assumed (and hoped) it was a flyback transformer failure. Any idea of the cost to replace that part? From what I've read, replacing a flyback transformer is fairly simple, though it might still be best to have a professional install it.

Any idea where I would get a flyback transformer for an FW900?
 
mathesar said:
I believe the Flyback Transformer failed which is what happened to mine, supposedly you can replace it fairly easily if you replace the whole board it's attached to, but I'd wait for a more experienced answer in case I'm totally wrong lol.
Click to expand...

That is correct and that has always been my suggestion to the users. The D-board is what needs to be replaced and it is not a cheap part.

Otherwise, you would need advanced soldering skills to take out and install just the FBT on this monitor, and there are not any FBT left on the trade with the exceptions of a hand full of repair centers (I am one of them).

Hope this helps...

Unkle Vito!
 
jrodefeld said:
Thanks for the feedback. I assumed (and hoped) it was a flyback transformer failure. Any idea of the cost to replace that part? From what I've read, replacing a flyback transformer is fairly simple, though it might still be best to have a professional install it.

Any idea where I would get a flyback transformer for an FW900?
Click to expand...

I PM you already... Call me tomorrow...

Unkle Vito!
 
I finally received my DTP94 a few days ago. :D Before the end of the day, I went through the entire WBP process thanks to spacediver's guide.
I'm actually quite happy by the results I got during the adjustments. Here are all the screenshots I took for each step.

Still, there is one weird thing... During the whole process, I got low delta values about less than 0.3 mostly. After that, I checked the delta values again, and it was seriously higher, around 7.0 - 8.0. :(

At the end of the guide, I read that if the values are different, it means that the configuration has not been saved properly, and I have to go through the whole process all over again.
Since I have all the screenshots, it will be a lot faster. I know sometimes the values won't be exactly the same, but still, the screenshots will help a lot.
Anyone knows what happened? Everything went fine all the way. I did the final setting as well, I don't think I forgot anything.

Now something else, yesterday I messed up with VDC or Max Freq. alignment by mistake. Really nothing to worry about, but I feel like the display is a little bit stretched on the top, and maybe a bit compressed on the bottom. I'm not quite sure.
I think I'm going to go through all the alignment process tomorrow, to ensure things are perfect again. At the same time, I hope I'll be able to get the RESET button to align everything perfectly at each factory resolutions.
Apparently my ASC button is fine, but when I click it, the image goes about 1cm out of the display area, at the bottom. If I do the full alignment configuration, will that behavior change?

In an effort to have everything handy when I'll decide to do the adjustments, I just finished writing a spreadsheet to convert easily WinDAS SG parameters to a more usable configuration for either ToastyX CRU or Nvidia Custom Resolution Utility.
I put it in my Sony GDM-FW900 Dropbox folder, here: windas_sg_config.xlsx.
Sure, this won't replace a proper SG device, but since I don't own one for the moment, I'm going to use ToastyX CRU and custom patterns. Right now, WinDAS says my FW900 is in Mode 5 using the following settings.

windas_sg_config_mode_5_spreadsheet.png


EDIT: I forgot something. I have one more question. While working on the spreadsheet today, I really noticed some ghosting. Actually, since the day I got my monitor I noticed that issue, but it's really not that much so I forgot about it.
When I pay attention, I can clearly see the shadows. I know this comes from my VGA cable, since I was dumb enough to buy a cheap DVI-I to VGA cable, and I used it less than 1min before switching back to my VGA cable with a DVI > VGA adapter. The ghosting was aweful with that cable.
I thought my actual VGA cable was good enough, it's a strong cable, 8mm thick. But it seems like I can still find a lot better. Anyone here can recommand me a website where I can find a high quality cable of about 3m (9ft) long? My graphics card outputs only DVI-I, so I think it's better to avoid any adapters, and have a cable straight from the PC to the monitor, through BNC preferably.
 
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good stuff - quick question, when you measured after the WPB adjustment, did you have colorimeter in same spot on screen as during the calibration?
 
spacediver said:
good stuff - quick question, when you measured after the WPB adjustment, did you have colorimeter in same spot on screen as during the calibration?
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Yep. I positioned the sensor correctly according to your pattern, and it didn't move until I completely finished the adjustment, and the further checkings. I didn't do any more measurements after that.
 
Re-aligning everything should get the ASC button to be perfect. Ghosting isn't that big of a deal, and to a degree I don't think it's something you can totally eliminate. Just a limitation of VGA and analog signaling. All of my monitors do it. Some are more pronounced than others (GDM-F520, for example), but they all do it. Even my LCD monitor at work exhibits ghosting. It's connected using VGA (yep - in 2015). BNC won't eliminate this either. Actually - the only tangible benefits I've seen in BNC are non-functional. That is, I don't notice any difference in the image quality in BNC vs VGA. But it does give you a little more flexibility in playing around with resolutions in Windows. VGA is just fine, in my opinion.

EDIT: Spreadsheets are the worst-case scenario in my opinion. At work, whenever I'm reading a spreadsheet, I see a pseudo grid hanging off the right of all the vertical lines. It's not that bad and easy enough to ignore.

Now when you say your delta e's were way off - are you talking about at the targets? Or are you meaning grayscale tracking altogether?
 
did you also make sure the OSD was set to 6500K?

And yes, would be good if u could post an image of your HCFR results for grayscale tracking
 
spacediver said:
did you also make sure the OSD was set to 6500K?

And yes, would be good if u could post an image of your HCFR results for grayscale tracking
Click to expand...

Derp! I forgot about that. You're right - it could have been set back to 9300K or whatever the monitor was set to before calibration - I don't remember. But I don't think my screen has ever set itself to 6500K after a calibration. :)
 
just looked through your WinDAS screenies - very nice stuff - good idea to save the photos, and you hit your targets beautifully. Also, based on the slider value in step 48, looks like your tube has a decent amount of life left.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Derp! I forgot about that. You're right - it could have been set back to 9300K or whatever the monitor was set to before calibration - I don't remember. But I don't think my screen has ever set itself to 6500K after a calibration. :)
Click to expand...

dont remember for the fw900 but on my g520p i need to do the last step in the procedure for it to do that
 
etienne51 said:
When I pay attention, I can clearly see the shadows. I know this comes from my VGA cable, since I was dumb enough to buy a cheap DVI-I to VGA cable, and I used it less than 1min before switching back to my VGA cable with a DVI > VGA adapter. The ghosting was aweful with that cable.
I thought my actual VGA cable was good enough, it's a strong cable, 8mm thick. But it seems like I can still find a lot better. Anyone here can recommand me a website where I can find a high quality cable of about 3m (9ft) long? My graphics card outputs only DVI-I, so I think it's better to avoid any adapters, and have a cable straight from the PC to the monitor, through BNC preferably.
Click to expand...

At bluejeanscable.com you can get an good DVI-I to RGBHV cable.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
EDIT: Spreadsheets are the worst-case scenario in my opinion. At work, whenever I'm reading a spreadsheet, I see a pseudo grid hanging off the right of all the vertical lines. It's not that bad and easy enough to ignore.
Click to expand...

I think so, because most of the time I don't really notice the ghosting. Working on that spreadsheet just reminded me that I have some.

jbltecnicspro said:
Now when you say your delta e's were way off - are you talking about at the targets? Or are you meaning grayscale tracking altogether?
Click to expand...
spacediver said:
did you also make sure the OSD was set to 6500K?

And yes, would be good if u could post an image of your HCFR results for grayscale tracking
Click to expand...

I only tested the grayscale tracking, but sadly I forgot the screenshot for this one.
As far as I remember, I set my monitor to 6500K before using HCFR, and I also reset HCFR to the proper settings. Then I did the tests once more on 9300K, with the correct HCFR settings as well.
Anyway, I'll do everything again soon, and I'll post the screenshots.
 
spacediver said:
just looked through your WinDAS screenies - very nice stuff - good idea to save the photos, and you hit your targets beautifully. Also, based on the slider value in step 48, looks like your tube has a decent amount of life left.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that! That's really good to know. :D But can I ask you what makes you say that exactly? The brightness slider value, and the remaining margin?

Myramond said:
At bluejeanscable.com you can get an good DVI-I to RGBHV cable.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I see they have some serious, thick coax cables. That's good stuff. Sadly they don't seem to have one with a direct DVI connector or VGA.
Apparently, if I buy from them, I need a BNC-BNC adapter, then a BNC-VGA one and finally a VGA-DVI one. That makes a lot of adapters in the end.
 
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