1920x1080 or 1920x1200? Need advice soon.

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Johnson184

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I'll be gaming on this PC about twice as often as I'll be watching movies, etc. I've got about $300 to spend on a monitor, and I'm not too well informed about them.

So here are the two I've narrowed it down to.

Samsung LED LCD 23" 2ms $290

Any big plus to LED? Seems like they use less power, weight less, don't give off as much heat, and are brighter/better picture contrast. This one is a 1920x1080 resolution.

Asus 25.5" LCD 2ms $290

This one is a 1920x1200 resolution. I've never owned an Asus before, but I have had a lot of great success with several Samsung products over the years.
 
If TN is what you want then the LED might be slightly better quality. If you don't need the extra workspace then you could consider that one but otherwise 1920x1200 is much better.
 
For $290 you can get a Dell U2311H or NEC EA231WMI. Both are 23" eIPS panels which have much better viewing angles than TN panels.

Also unless the LED's have local dimming they probably won't create a better true contrast ratio.
 
JohnleMVP said:
For $290 you can get a Dell U2311H or NEC EA231WMI. Both are 23" eIPS panels which have much better viewing angles than TN panels.

Also unless the LED's have local dimming they probably won't create a better true contrast ratio.
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Didn't know the U2311H was that cheap. The NEC is a poor suggestion for gaming.


Dell U2311H Reviews for the OP:

http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-u2311h-p357_8953_88.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2311h.htm

Be warned that there is a very high chance your IPS panel will have screen uniformity issues like tinting and that you may have to return it multiple times to get a good unit.
 
Ummm just how common are the screen uniformity issues?

I'm very close to ordering the Dell U2311h, but I'm a little bit freaked out by having to return it multiple times. Is the Dell a huge improvement in quality over the Samsung? (Price difference of $20 or so is really negligible, but I'd hate having to wait over a month just to get a monitor that was made correctly)

Is the screen uniformity issue very noticeable to the point of annoying? I'm a bit of a noob so I'm wondering if I'll even notice the monitor's a bad one!

And the slower ms of the Dell should still be fine for FPS games, etc. right?
 
Its very common on all IPS Panels & it is very noticable. Returning it is also a pain in the butt. takes dell forever to get you a new monitor. IPS is way better quality over TN but there are some high end TN's that have really good viewing angles and blacks. Ive used the XL2370 before its an awesome monitor. RIght now I run a Asus VH242 & I love it also.

The Lower the MS the better it is for gaming. You want Lower MS so you dont run into Ghosting. My Personal Preference is to stay between 2-5 MS

Update: Its kind of a win lose situation here. You could get a bad panel or you could get a perfect panel. I probrably would take the chance on the IPS myself.
 
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I find it amusing that people talk about viewing angles as much as they do. I don't know about you guys but I'm not frantically moving around while I'm gaming and there was no mention of eyefinity/surround.

Personally @ 300.00 I would hold out for LG W2363D to be available. 120hz is definitely going to give you a better gaming experience over anything else.
 
NCX said:
The NEC is a poor suggestion for gaming.
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How so? Its the same LG panel used in the Dell. The difference is dell chose to use RTC to lower response time at the cost of input lag and NEC didn't. So the Dell has better pixel response (less ghosting) and more input lag (see images later). The reverse is true for the NEC. It can be considered a wash in my opinion. Input lag fans will probably prefer the NEC.

Oh and I got my 3 Dell U2311h's for $240 so look out for coupons. BCB is over though.


rtd said:
I find it amusing that people talk about viewing angles as much as they do. I don't know about you guys but I'm not frantically moving around while I'm gaming and there was no mention of eyefinity/surround.

Personally @ 300.00 I would hold out for LG W2363D to be available. 120hz is definitely going to give you a better gaming experience over anything else.
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The problem with TN panels is the vertical viewing angle can be really bad so just changing your posture or moving your head up can reveal how bad the view angle is. It depends on the background color how noticeable it is. I couldn't live with a TN panel I bought after trying browse the hardforums. It was just too noticeable. This is why TN panels don't come with stands that can rotate unlike IPS or PVA/MVA panels. Also cheaper panels can have really poor color and its hard to get them calibrated right. Considering eIPS panels can be hand for $300 or less why would you get a $300 TN panel? TN panels are a dime a dozen if your going for cheap wait for a deal. My co-worker got 2 Samsung 2494's for $160 each.

As for response time be sure to read a review that does a image comparison of response time between monitors. Don't just trust the manufacture specs. Theres more to it than just the numbers.
 
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Alright, thanks guys. I think I'll give the eIPS a whirl.

I can't seem to find the prices you guys are listing. Seems to be $320 from Dell right now. Crazy thing... is that it say it may take 5 days to even get the thing sent to shipping!!

(If you guys have had to return the U2311h, what's the process? Just give them a call? Do they pay shipping? How long did it take to get a replacement?)
 
Dell has coupons almost every other week. I'd wait. I got my first 2 U2311H when they had the 20% off. Got a third on Thursday night while BCB has 25% off.

Returns are easy with dell within the time period. Just call them. You pay return shipping.

For exchanges the Ultrasharp monitors have advance exchange so they send you a replacement first. Then you send yours back. Its easier to return though than to get a replacement for a tinting issue. So just inspect the out the monitor while your still within the return period.

They also have a zero dead pixel policy while your in warranty (3 years).
 
Problem is... I need to be able to use the monitor very soon, so I can't wait for a coupon to roll around.

Do I understand this right...

Dell U2311h ($345ish due to tax on dell.com)
+ Everything looks better
+ Viewing angles are much better
+ Stand is much better
- Slight motion blur. Only a big difference if playing FPS shooters and you're accustomed to 120hz screens, etc.
- Cost.
- May have to replace. Not a big deal as they ship out replacement while you keep the bad one.

Samsung XL2370-1 ($280 shipped)
+ Zero delay for games.
+ No manufacturing problems.
+ Cost
- Bad viewing angles.
- Noticeable decrease in picture quality.
 
lol... sorry if you guys reading this think i'm just talking to myself.

But after writing out the pros/cons... it seems quite obvious for me to just go for the Dell. Or else I may end up regretting not seeing what this IPS is all about. If you think about how often/long you'll be using a monitor for... what's $65? A game?

Thanks guys, you've all been of tremendous help!
 
Both monitors will be sharp in terms of picture quality. I don't know about this particular Samsung, but most TN panels tend to be 6 bit panels in terms of color with some sort of technology to try and enhance this so it can produce the same as a 8 bit panel. The eIPS is a true 8bit panel.
In terms of motion blur all 60HZ LCD's will have some motion blur. 120HZ panels will greatly improve this.

Also basically any monitor with a scaler in it will have some delay (input lag). You really need to find a review to get these numbers. The NEC has 8ms and the Dell has 10ms of input lag compared to a CRT. These are among the lowest you will find for an LCD.
 
I think I'm joining the discussion a bit late but 1920x1200 is pretty sweet. I bought a U2311H and the ratio definitely bothered me. It just felt too wide. On a ZR24W now and I like the ratio a lot more. That being said the U2311H is a really nice screen and if you have to choose between that and a TN I would say there is no choice at all get the Dell.
 
Johnson184 said:
lol... sorry if you guys reading this think i'm just talking to myself.

But after writing out the pros/cons... it seems quite obvious for me to just go for the Dell. Or else I may end up regretting not seeing what this IPS is all about. If you think about how often/long you'll be using a monitor for... what's $65? A game?

Thanks guys, you've all been of tremendous help!
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IPS is very overated, honestly you have a better chance of getting a quality product with one of the more epensive TN's like the Samsung XL2370 or Acer G245H than with IPS.

You are paying for something that wrong headed fanboys on this forum think makes the image quality better. Once calibrated and viewed head on there are many TN panels that will give you much better image quality than any IPS panel for gaming/movies sense most IPS panels have very poor contrast/black performance. The Dell U2311H is the exception.



I won't buy an IPS panel simply because paying 300$ for something that I will most likely have to return is wrong.

Only once viewing angles are factored in for some one w/o a calibration device does IPS really have an advantage for games/movies, even then most people just leave their displays with whatever ridiculously overbrightened presets displays come with and then come on here and preach about the glory of IPS panels.

So you need to ask yourself if paying extra $$ for viewing angles (which you may or may not care about) is worth it knowning you will most likely get a faulty product and have to spend the time to return it. Who knows maybe you will get lucky (lol) and my words of warning will be wasted.
 
Look at it this way. Buy from Newegg and if you don't like it, too bad. Buy from Dell and if you don't like it, just return it.

$290 + SH vs $320 + tax. At that price point why would you even consider a TN unless it had 120HZ?
 
NCX said:
You are paying for something that wrong headed fanboys on this forum think makes the image quality better. Once calibrated and viewed head on there are many TN panels that will give you much better image quality than any IPS panel for gaming/movies sense most IPS panels have very poor contrast/black performance. The Dell U2311H is the exception.
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I would think contrast and black performance would be a characteristic of the back light not the LCD panel type since the LCD panel is not displaying anything when its black. Contrast is the difference between the black and the the brightest white so again the back light would be the major factor here.
 
JohnleMVP said:
I would think contrast and black performance would be a characteristic of the back light not the LCD panel type since the LCD panel is not displaying anything when its black. Contrast is the difference between the black and the the brightest white so again the back light would be the major factor here.
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No that is wrong. IPS panels have always had the the worst contrast/black depth performance compared to VA and TN panels. IPS has gotten better lately with the U2311H and Fujitsu, however LG's quality control sucks, which is why I urge gamers to stick with TN's.
 
NCX said:
No that is wrong. IPS panels have always had the the worst contrast/black depth performance compared to VA and TN panels. IPS has gotten better lately with the U2311H and Fujitsu, however LG's quality control sucks, which is why I urge gamers to stick with TN's.
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222


TN film (Twisted Nematic)
- low manufacturing/retail costs
- restrictive viewing angles
- fast pixel response times
- dead pixels display white. Stuck pixels display RGB colors
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels
- lower color reproduction

IPS (In Plane Switching)
- improved viewing angles over TN
- very good color reproduction
- slower pixel response times than TN
- dead pixels display black
- lower contrast levels means blacks are not as dark as VA based panels
Super-IPS (S-IPS)
- same as IPS except ...
- likely best color reproduction of all TFT
- less expensive to produce than IPS
- improved pixel response
VA (Vertical Alignment) Technologies

MVA (Multidomain Vertical Alignment)
- compromise between TN and IPS technologies
- superior color reproduction over TN but not as good as IPS
- very good viewing angles but less than IPS
- higher contrast than TN or S-IPS means very good blacks
- dead pixels are black
- slower pixel response than TN or IPS
- details can be lost when directly viewing dark areas
Click to expand...
 
Posting a wall of text to show that I'm right isn't necessary...

I said compared to VA and TN panels, not TN panels have deeper blacks than VA.....
 
JohnleMVP said:
The problem with TN panels is the vertical viewing angle can be really bad so just changing your posture or moving your head up can reveal how bad the view angle is. It depends on the background color how noticeable it is. I couldn't live with a TN panel I bought after trying browse the hardforums. It was just too noticeable. This is why TN panels don't come with stands that can rotate unlike IPS or PVA/MVA panels. Also cheaper panels can have really poor color and its hard to get them calibrated right. Considering eIPS panels can be hand for $300 or less why would you get a $300 TN panel? TN panels are a dime a dozen if your going for cheap wait for a deal. My co-worker got 2 Samsung 2494's for $160 each.

As for response time be sure to read a review that does a image comparison of response time between monitors. Don't just trust the manufacture specs. Theres more to it than just the numbers.
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Yea it's even worse trying to live with a noticeable refresh. That's why you don't go cheap. Every LCD I've owned I have not had an issue with viewing angles unless I wasn't sitting at my desk. I notice it more on TV's because you don't always sit square in front of the television.
 
NCX said:
Posting a wall of text to show that I'm right isn't necessary...

I said compared to VA and TN panels, not TN panels have deeper blacks than VA.....
Click to expand...

Where does it say TN have deeper blacks than IPS? The blackest things will get is when the back light is off. So unless you got local dimming its not going to be very black.
 
NCX said:
Posting a wall of text to show that I'm right isn't necessary...

I said compared to VA and TN panels, not TN panels have deeper blacks than VA.....
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You've never seen a good monitor.
You never understand that good viewing angles is the quality #1 of a monitor.
You never understand that image quality in general (including contrast) depends on viewing angles.
You never understand the difference between the numbers of contrast ratio and the real image contrast.
Please do us a favor, go play your games.
 
JohnleMVP said:
Where does it say TN have deeper blacks than IPS? The blackest things will get is when the back light is off. So unless you got local dimming its not going to be very black.
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Look at any review sites calibration results and you will find that information, instead of looking at information in a thread created in 2006.


albovin said:
You've never seen a good monitor.
You never understand that good viewing angles is the quality #1 of a monitor.
You never understand that image quality in general (including contrast) depends on viewing angles.
You never understand the difference between the numbers of contrast ratio and the real image contrast.
Please do us a favor, go play your games.
Click to expand...

Your blatant trolling of anything that doesn't praise IPS panels is beyond pathetic. Clearly it is you who doesn't understand image quality.

Good Viewing Angles are worthless if the Image Quality sucks.

If monitor X is has a contrast of 900:1 @ 120cd/m2 and monitor Z has a contrast of 500:1 @ 120cd/m2 and both have a gamma value of 2.2 and Delta E average of 2.0, monitor X will look better than monitor Z. You seem to have an extremely hard time understanding this.

If monitor Z has Plasma Caliber Viewing Angles while Monitor X has PVA Caliber Viewing Angles it does not mean monitor Z has a better picture. Sure monitor Z can be viewed off angle, but most people sit infront of their displays and don't hang upside down on monkey bars 45 degrees off angle.

Then factor in the quality control issues and multiple return/exchange processes monitor Z is most likely going to have and what do you have?

An IPS panel!

This is why TN panels are generally better for games and films unless color work is invloved, but then any one serious about Accurate Color and Panel Quality should know to research before buying, or just avoid Dell IPS panels and go with an NEC or Ezio.
 
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The thing that gets me is when viewing angles are used as a criteria for PC monitors. Its NOT A TV with people sitting on the sides for it to matter! I have never been been bothered by bad TN viewing angles because I view the damn thing straight on. Not 5 degrees up/down or left/right. So if you want a TV, by all means bitch about viewing angles.
 
amenx said:
The thing that gets me is when viewing angles are used as a criteria for PC monitors. Its NOT A TV with people sitting on the sides for it to matter! I have never been been bothered by bad TN viewing angles because I view the damn thing straight on. Not 5 degrees up/down or left/right. So if you want a TV, by all means bitch about viewing angles.
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The thing is, you are still looking at all the edges at an angle. All TN panels look way darker at the top and way brighter at the bottom because their vertical viewing angles are horrible. I would actually rather use one as a TV than a computer monitor because the closer you are the more pronounced the color shift is.

Good viewing angles are worthless if the image quality sucks, yes, but the opposite is very much true as well. You could have a TN with perfect backlight, perfect color reproduction and it would still suck as long as it has the same viewing angles that TNs have now.

I'm with albovin on this one, good viewing angles is pretty much the quality #1 of a monitor.
 
Walker said:
The thing is, you are still looking at all the edges at an angle. All TN panels look way darker at the top and way brighter at the bottom because their vertical viewing angles are horrible. I would actually rather use one as a TV than a computer monitor because the closer you are the more pronounced the color shift is.

Good viewing angles are worthless if the image quality sucks, yes, but the opposite is very much true as well. You could have a TN with perfect backlight, perfect color reproduction and it would still suck as long as it has the same viewing angles that TNs have now.

I'm with albovin on this one, good viewing angles is pretty much the quality #1 of a monitor.
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This is another problem, people on here have exagerated the TN issue so much people actually believe that half the screen is brighter than the bottom when viewed head on.

This is why fantaticism of any kind (in this site's case it's IPS) just plain sucks.


When talking about a gaming monitor viewing anlges aren't really important, other wise every one on here would be gaming on a Dell U2410 with it's medicore contrast ratio, but hey I can sit off to the side and it doesn't wash out! You know what the problem is here? The image is washed out to begin with, so it really shouldn't matter if the viewing angles are good.


If viewing angles are super imporant then that also means that the Dell U2410 is a better monitor than the Dell U2311H and pretty much any LCD display for that matter, right? Never mind that the U2410 has half the contrast ratio of the U2311H and a much higher black depth right? Who cares cause I can view it from the side!
 
NCX said:
This is another problem, people on here have exagerated the TN issue so much people actually believe that half the screen is brighter than the bottom when viewed head on.
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I don't have to believe anything, i can see with my own eyes that every single TN panel does exactly that and is THE reason why I would never buy a TN monitor ever again.

Here's a pic posted in the new Asus monitor thread which is described as having incredible viewing angles for a TN:
img1644fd.jpg

The screen quite obviously looks darker at the top and brighter at the bottom which is caused by the vertical viewing angles, and now imagine if it was actually displayed in full screen. That is exactly what a TN looks like in person. If you're going to deny that, I don't see how is that any better than the "IPS fanaticism" that bothers you so much.
 
I'm not denying it, people just make it seem like it's some ridiculous difference between top and botom, the thing they aren't realizing is that most LCD screen don't have uniform brightness either which doesn't help. The center part can be 140cd/m2 while the bottom is 120cd/m2, weather this is noticeable to the user is entirely subjective.

TN Viewing Angles are still better than screen tinting which most IPS panels seem to have these days.



This thread has gone on long enough, the point was to help the OP decide on a new monitor. I suggested the Dell as well, but wanted to warn the OP about the issues most people experience, all things he wouldn't have to worry about with the Samsung XL2370 (which has better head on Image Quality than the Dell and is better suited for his uses).

The main point is that viewing angles are not worth paying for if the screen is most likely going to have issues and a lot of time is going to have to be spent when trying to find a good unit, especially if the person sits infront of their display (like most people).
 
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NCX said:
Your blatant trolling of anything that doesn't praise IPS panels is beyond pathetic. Clearly it is you who doesn't understand image quality.
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I don't think I've ever seen a troll in Displays. Cut the bullshit.

NCX said:
Good Viewing Angles are worthless if the Image Quality sucks.

If monitor X is has a contrast of 900:1 @ 120cd/m2 and monitor Z has a contrast of 500:1 @ 120cd/m2 and both have a gamma value of 2.2 and Delta E average of 2.0, monitor X will look better than monitor Z. You seem to have an extremely hard time understanding this.
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This is a naive understanding. Viewing angle matters because we view our monitors head-on. On the contrary to your argument, theoretical image quality is insufficient if not complemented with the right viewing angle. I'll stretch and amplify your argument:

Imagine a TN monitor, or even a 32" TN TV with perfect OLED contrast. Would it be infinitely better than a 1000:1 IPS model? Would it deliver reference image quality? Which is closer to reference?

The answer is that neither approaches reference level. Giving weight to these attributes is complex, but you simply cannot approach image quality without meeting standards of contrast, gamut coverage and viewing angle.
 
For most people if you are simply talking about how much you will enjoy the image being presented on the display (not how close to reference an image looks) and all you do is load a game and play (and I don't mean slowing walking around admiring the scene and details) you are honestly not going to notice a difference I feel switching off from a TN vs. IPS.

Typically in that kind of usage scenario I think the following characteristics stand out the most -

screen size
screen pixel density
screen resolution
motion performance
input lag
contrast
brightness

And really none of these factors do IPS screens give a significant advantage (if at all), you're honestly better off going with the cheaper price and easier availability of a TN if those are applicable.

For instance for viewing angles issue, while TNs did bother which is why I did not buy a TN this time, for the most people I do not feel if they are say in the middle of playing Bad Company 2 would stop to go, "the image seems to have color shifting at certain parts of it," or "that shade of gray on the wall seems to be off color." Yes if you told them to stop, and give them a reference to compare side by side they could compare and might see differences, but otherwise I don't believe people would be able to tell in a blind test.
 
limitedaccess said:
For most people if you are simply talking about how much you will enjoy the image being presented on the display (not how close to reference an image looks) and all you do is load a game and play (and I don't mean slowing walking around admiring the scene and details) you are honestly not going to notice a difference I feel switching off from a TN vs. IPS.

Typically in that kind of usage scenario I think the following characteristics stand out the most -

screen size
screen pixel density
screen resolution
motion performance
input lag
contrast
brightness

And really none of these factors do IPS screens give a significant advantage (if at all), you're honestly better off going with the cheaper price and easier availability of a TN if those are applicable.

For instance for viewing angles issue, while TNs did bother which is why I did not buy a TN this time, for the most people I do not feel if they are say in the middle of playing Bad Company 2 would stop to go, "the image seems to have color shifting at certain parts of it," or "that shade of gray on the wall seems to be off color." Yes if you told them to stop, and give them a reference to compare side by side they could compare and might see differences, but otherwise I don't believe people would be able to tell in a blind test.
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This is what makes a 120hz TN infinitely superior to any other lcd monitor(currently) for any kind of gaming. But people have to go and get [H]ard-ons for the tiniest technical differences to stand out while most won't even notice that difference to begin with unless they run some impractical benchmark to further exemplify the fact that they are anal retentive. The worst part is people are giving up simple performance for these minute differences.Where the band goes the wagon will follow echoing that same tune.
 
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I don't think IPS is overrated. If TN bothers you, then it will bother you A LOT. Best go to a retail store (Frys or MicroCenter) and check out both screens and decide for yourself. I have two IPS monitors on my desk. My wife has a cheap TN monitor on hers. We're both satisfied.
 
IPS and TN. Both OK.

The worst is having AG coating that makes the screen muddy and sparker. Thats the worst thing.
 
Screenshots of Asus 27" TN viewing angles:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035970551&postcount=14

LOL, sitting dead center the edges would fade, color shift? I think the IPS vs TN argument may have been more relevant a few years ago when their qualities had been more noticeable. Sure, you will notice big differences in a crappy TN vs a good IPS today, but largely, for MOST peoples needs and purposes, TNs (for the money) are the more attractive choice. Unless you're a photo buff where accuracy is paramount or a movie freak who gathers friends around his PC monitor.
 
amenx said:
Screenshots of Asus 27" TN viewing angles:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035970551&postcount=14

LOL, sitting dead center the edges would fade, color shift? I think the IPS vs TN argument may have been more relevant a few years ago when their qualities had been more noticeable. Sure, you will notice big differences in a crappy TN vs a good IPS today, but largely, for MOST peoples needs and purposes, TNs (for the money) are the more attractive choice. Unless you're a photo buff where accuracy is paramount or a movie freak who gathers friends around his PC monitor.
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We are just beating a dead horse here trying to explain things.....

The people who think Viewing Angles are the be all end all of a monitor also think that 600:1 @120cd/m2 is a good contrast value and will look better than something with a 900:1 contrast head on. They just talk about viewing angles, completely ignore the horrendous quality control most IPS panels have and post garbage like "you have never seen a good monitor," or "you don't understand," while never actually posting anything usefu/helpfull or facts to back up their ridiculously wrong headed Church of IPS zealous statements.

LG and Dell need to find better employees to troll the forums.
 
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Basically for the whole TN, IPS, PVA situation, when choosing you have to realize each technology has its own advantages and drawbacks. Despite what the rather polarizing viewpoints, IPS screens are not the holy grail of displays technology nor are they terrible at gaming/multimedia applications. You have to first decide what aspects of a display will be important to and affect you. I went with the Dell u2311h (ips) because I did not find I would have an improvement in gaming/multimedia unless getting a 120hz TN (which I did not consider due to several reasons) and would enjoy its advantages when using my pc for other things (since I'm not literally glued to games/movies all the time I'm on my computer).

Regardless of whether you prefer TN, IPS or PVA however, I think one thing that everyone can agree on that is overrated is Edge Lit LEDs improving image quality :)
 
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