16GB the new "Standard"?

Cerulean said:
Laptops without SSDs are still a bit cheaper, so you can re-use SSDs you purchased for laptops in new laptops. It's more an investment than an upgrade that lasts for the remainder of the asset life cycle.

There will always be failures no matter what policies and regulations you implement. An SSD will help reduce some failures and problems, and will also benefit the user for longer battery run time, and allow them to fit in more productivity via the microsecond latencies of SSDs + extended battery runtimes.

For new laptops, order them with a 128GB SSD.

It's such a waste to throw away good laptops after an official asset life cycle in the company ends, unless it is a matter of operating system and software incompatibility (ex. Windows XP with Office 2003 vs Windows 7 with minimum Office 2007 at present time).
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Depending on the OEM brand selected, replacing a spindle hdd with a re-used or new ssd could void some or all of the system warranty.

And almost every IT dept of sizable corps I know of call in a recycler or a broker to take care of their old assets. They are not simply just throwing them away.
 
For shits and giggles I tracked my usage encoding a video. 17.2 GB for a 5 minute video. Since I went to 32GB I haven't had a single crash in Adobe Premiere.

All depends what you're doing...
 
I think the standard is 8gb. I usually judge it by how much ram most of the laptops and desktops have installed.
 
I just had to move to 32GB because of work stuff. I could probably use more, but my board is maxxed out. Next step is skylake or x99
 
michaelvvang said:
I think the standard is 8gb. I usually judge it by how much ram most of the laptops and desktops have installed.
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Used to be 8GB before the price hikes. I find most OEM systems now come with 4GB for the base configuration.
 
We've been ordering 8GB standard at work, and 16GB for power users. Works pretty well, although... whenever someone wants a recommendation, I always suggest 16GB.

I remember the old days of trying to run XP SP2 on machines with 128mb of ram. When in doubt (and especially when it isn't your own group's budget) max the ram.
 
I've been out of the loop since last year, having added only 4GB DDR3. Have prices dropped much in the last year? And more importantly, can I use a different brand to top up the memory to 8GB?
 
Are you hitting RAM limits now? If not, I wouldn't bother. Prices have been steadily going up for the past ~3 years, the low point was ~5 years ago. It seems to have stabilized in the past half year or so, and maybe dropped slightly.
 
If I'm building a new system, it's getting at least 16GB no matter what.
 
Tsumi said:
DDR3 is not at its historical low. It is at its plateau in terms of market stabilization. The historical low was about 4-5 years ago, and then started skyrocketing about 3-4 years ago. It is now at the point where it has stabilized, and won't be going up or down.

You think $80 for 16 gb is inexpensive? Try 24 gb for $25. That's what I got my RAM for 5 years ago.
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back in the early 486 days it was $1600 for 4MB... yeah so $80 for 16GB is a bargain by any stretch of the imagination...
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
back in the early 486 days it was $1600 for 4MB... yeah so $80 for 16GB is a bargain by any stretch of the imagination...
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Why do people insist on comparing the old days?

4-5 years ago you can get 8gb of DDR3 RAM for ~$30 and 16gb of DDR3 RAM for ~$50 all day long. $80 for 16gb is not a deal based on DDR3's history. It is a deal nowadays given the current market, but not like what it used to be.

100 mb hard drives used to be $100+. Does that mean I'm going to go out and buy a 2 tb for over $1000? By your logic, a 2tb for even $50k is still a deal.
 
I went with 16GB just 'cuz it was on sale when I was building my SFF PC, earlier this year. I doubt I'll ever need more than 8GB, though.
 
The only way I can exceed 8GB is at work with a Virtual machine running on top of Windows 7 and a Sandisk Readycache software allocating 1GB for caching. And iTunes running. With that I usually hover at about 85-90% full.

But for my home computer, never get close.
 
Tsumi said:
Why do people insist on comparing the old days?

4-5 years ago you can get 8gb of DDR3 RAM for ~$30 and 16gb of DDR3 RAM for ~$50 all day long.
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I can't recall ever seeing that. Not saying it didn't happen, but I have never seen that for an extended amount of time. When the (1st) i7 line came out I did get DDR3 for pretty cheap, but no where near that.
 
Okay, $50 for 2x8gb of DDR3 was not happening. But for a few months in 2011, 2x4gb can be had for $20-50 depending on the speed of the RAM. Many 1333 and 1600 mhz modules could be found for $25-35.
 
I don't think 8gb sticks were widely available at the time, and commanded a very high price premium. Doing searches on Slickdeals, late 2011 had 2x8gb costing over $90. By late 2012 though, the prices had fallen to ~$50-60.

Examples:
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5384058-laptop-desktop-memory-8gb-2x4gb-g-skill-ripjaws-ddr3-1600-34-16gb-2x8gb-g-skill-ares-ddr3-1600-59-8gb-2x4gb-team-ddr3-1600-30-more-free-shipping?v=1&src=SiteSearch
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5203512-16gb-2x8gb-kingston-hyperx-blu-red-series-ddr3-1600-desktop-memory-khx16c10b1rk2-16-65-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5160290-patriot-g2-series-division-2-edition-16gb-2-x-8gb-240-pin-ddr3-sdram-ddr3-1600-pc3-12800-desktop-memory-model-pgd316g1600elk-ac-ar-45-74-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

So yeah, today's deals aren't even remotely close to being considered deals when comparing to DDR3's historical prices.
 
I quite agree with OP since my internet browsing and gaming really forces me to close some tabs so yeah 16GB might be the new standard for gamers
 
Tsumi said:
I don't think 8gb sticks were widely available at the time, and commanded a very high price premium. Doing searches on Slickdeals, late 2011 had 2x8gb costing over $90. By late 2012 though, the prices had fallen to ~$50-60.

Examples:
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5384058-laptop-desktop-memory-8gb-2x4gb-g-skill-ripjaws-ddr3-1600-34-16gb-2x8gb-g-skill-ares-ddr3-1600-59-8gb-2x4gb-team-ddr3-1600-30-more-free-shipping?v=1&src=SiteSearch
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5203512-16gb-2x8gb-kingston-hyperx-blu-red-series-ddr3-1600-desktop-memory-khx16c10b1rk2-16-65-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch
http://slickdeals.net/expired/5160290-patriot-g2-series-division-2-edition-16gb-2-x-8gb-240-pin-ddr3-sdram-ddr3-1600-pc3-12800-desktop-memory-model-pgd316g1600elk-ac-ar-45-74-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

So yeah, today's deals aren't even remotely close to being considered deals when comparing to DDR3's historical prices.
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How do you figure they aren't even close when you cherry picked a bunch of after rebate close to black Friday deals that pretty much mirror the after rebate deals from Frys and Microcenter about three months ago when I last bought RAM?
 
For gaming on Haswell 8gb of 2400 is ideal. It's been shown to improve minimum FPS for online multiplayer. If you need that like I will search for it on OCN.

Gaming on AMD or Ivy or less 8gb of 1600 mhz is fine.

Beyond gaming 16 gb might be ideal.
 
Tsumi said:
Okay, $50 for 2x8gb of DDR3 was not happening. But for a few months in 2011, 2x4gb can be had for $20-50 depending on the speed of the RAM. Many 1333 and 1600 mhz modules could be found for $25-35.
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Yeah, I got 2x4GB kit in August 2011 for $43. Cheapest prices I've ever paid for DDR3.

We're finally close to those prices again!

I'd say 16GB is the new high-end sweet-spot, but you can still expect to get several years out of 8GB as a starter build.
 
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There were other times where the prices were good. In August 2012 I got a 2x8gb kit from newegg for $60.
 
mope54 said:
How do you figure they aren't even close when you cherry picked a bunch of after rebate close to black Friday deals that pretty much mirror the after rebate deals from Frys and Microcenter about three months ago when I last bought RAM?
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I didn't realize that September counted as close to Black Friday, nor did I realize that Newegg counts as Fry's and Microcenter.

Late January 2013, Amazon, no rebate: http://slickdeals.net/expired/5812644-16gb-2x8gb-patriot-viper-3-series-1-5v-1866mhz-pc3-15000-ddr3-desktop-memory-55-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch
Late February 2013, Newegg, no rebate: http://slickdeals.net/expired/5874710-corsair-16gb-2x-8-vengeance-red-ddr3-1600-sdram-66-59ac-newegg-1pm-pt?v=1&src=SiteSearch
 
What do you think you're accomplishing with continuing this pointless conversation?

All you've done so far is provide a few links where some people managed to get 16gb of ram as shellshocker, rebate, coupon deals for similar price as it currently gets offered for under the same conditions. If anything, the fact that it's been under 100 bucks for the past few years actually undermines your point that people shouldn't be buying 16gb standard...
 
I'm sorry, I guess a 20+% difference in price is actually no difference at all. I mean, $80 is obviously the same thing as $45-65.

There were plenty more I could have posted. There were many more 4x4gb deals I could have posted as well. B&M deals are not the same as online deals, and I do remember there being many Fry's and Microcenter deals for cheaper than those online deals. Show me where in the past year you could have gotten 2x8gb of RAM for $65 or less online, then maybe you have a point.

The point is, at current prices which are nowhere near historical lows, there is little reason to buy 16gb if you don't need more than 8gb. The time to buy excess DDR3 RAM has passed, for the moment. DDR3 is EOL, the next major upgrade will require DDR4. The only time 16gb makes sense over 8gb is when the choice between the two kits is something like $55 for 8gb vs $80 for 16gb. If it's between a $45 8gb kit and a $85 16gb kit, go with the 8.
 
I've been running 16gig for the past 3 years. I game, program, use photoshop and edit/transcode video. I still have yet to break the 8gig of used memory on my system...
I've just bought a second machine and it comes with 12gig and this is all that it will have for the foreseeable future.
 
Tsumi, I don't agree with your advice regarding 16GB being "worthless."

You WILL get enough lifetime out of a new Haswell build to justify the 16GB purchase now. My 2500k is still going strong after 4.5 yeears, and when I bought it 4GB was sizable, and 8GB was considered "excessive."

Since 4GB was hitting a wall, I decided to upgrade last year to 16GB, because I can't see it getting outdated in the next couple years. After all, Skylake isn't going to be all that much faster than Haswell, and that's barely faster than Sandy!

Don't understand you Tsumi with your claim " no one can see that far into the future." So long as you buy a top-end mainstream 4-core processor from Intel, you will have enough CPU performance for games for a very long time (5-7 years). How can I be sure? because we've hit the limits of the amazing architectural improvements and frequency bumps you used to get with older die shrinks! And Intel isn't going to give the mainstream users 6 cores for several more years, since they'd rather use the die space for a better iGPU.

AMD's Zen might better-level the playing field, but it won't upend things. They can't break the laws of physics or anything.

And who cares if Windows is getting more efficient with ram? At the exact same time, applications are getting less efficient with the memory Windows made available. And nothing stops the incessant march of new video games adding new features and higher quality, which means your ram needs are always growing. Now that we've successfully made the 64-bit transition, 2GB ram per-task is no-longer an artificial limitation on game designers.

While it's true that the new consoles don't have more than 6GB available, that certainly didn't stop PC games from pushing 2-3GB RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the 360/PS3 generation! High-end PC games certainly didn't let a little thing like 512MB console ram stop them, but they were stopped in their tracks by the 32-bit wall.
 
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And when you do hit that 8gb wall, buy another 8gb kit and slap it in there, unless you're running an ITX build or some cheapo motherboard with only 2 RAM slots that won't last more than 2 years. It's not as if RAM prices are going up or down. While I do know about not being able to see into the future, I'm a firm believer of not buying more than you need (want?) unless there's extra value to be had by buying excessively. Right now, there's hardly any extra value to be had by buying 16gb. 2-3 years ago, there was a lot of extra value to buying DDR3 excessively. Right now, DDR3 prices are on a plateau/slight downward trend, so there may be value in waiting if more than 8gb isn't needed.

I am also all for people wanting to buy excessively for the sake of buying excessively. It's your money, do what you want with it. If you need more than 8gb, go for 16. If you really want 16gb regardless of need and what other people say, go for 16. If you can find 16gb at a killer deal (near 8gb prices, for example), go for 16. If you feel like you have to create a justification (i.e. possible future scenarios, etc) to buy more than 8gb even though you don't need it, and there's no extra value in going for 16, go for 8gb.
 
I love having 16GB of RAM, great for recording gameplay video in afterburner... wouldn't call it the new standard though :)
 
The work pc I bought last year had only 4GB for around 40. This year 16GB is $125 so $31/ for a 4gb..
So DDR3 memor prices dropped around 21%.

this year or next they are pushing DDR4. On GPU they are promoting even faster tech.
 
chrispycrunch said:
The work pc I bought last year had only 4GB for around 40. This year 16GB is $125 so $31/ for a 4gb..
So DDR3 memor prices dropped around 21%.

this year or next they are pushing DDR4. On GPU they are promoting even faster tech.
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It has increased by 25-50% from 2011/2012...
 
I'd say in about two years max, 16 gb will be the standard. Once AMD's Zen and intel's Skylake hit DDR4, 16bg will be the new recommendation just like 8gb has been for the last 3 years.
 
Tsumi said:
It has increased by 25-50% from 2011/2012...
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I think it was 2012 when i bought 32gb for aboug 120...which I think is roughly 100% higher than it is now.
I generally find that you should build a system with 2x whatever the typical prebuilt boxes come with (currently that's 8GB). I don't have that on my rig, but it's 5 years old and it still has 12GB.
Of course my gut says I'm going to go Skylake...so DDR4 going forward. Probably get raped on that RAM.
 
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I have 16 GB in a system with windows 7 x64 and an i7 2600k. I have never seen it use much more than 6GB of ram. I do all sorts of gaming, office, onenote, photoediting etc.... I would just buy 8GB now see how things go with your workload. If you push it then add another 8GB. But then again if I was in your shoes I wouldn't even upgrade the ram if you already have ddr3. 1333 vs 1600 isn't going to make enough of a difference to warrant the costs.
 
nilepez said:
I think it was 2012 when i bought 32gb for aboug 120...which I think is roughly 100% higher than it is now.
I generally find that you should build a system with 2x whatever the typical prebuilt boxes come with (currently that's 8GB). I don't have that on my rig, but it's 5 years old and it still has 12GB.
Of course my gut says I'm going to go Skylake...so DDR4 going forward. Probably get raped on that RAM.
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Wait, where can you find 32gb for $60 now? The best I've seen lately is the $65 for 16gb that I posted above.

Unless you worded that wrong...
 
Tsumi said:
Wait, where can you find 32gb for $60 now? The best I've seen lately is the $65 for 16gb that I posted above.

Unless you worded that wrong...
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I did. It should have red it's at least 100% more now. Sorry about that :D


And where can you get 16GB for 60? Is that 2 sticks of 8GB each? If so, I'd consider building new system pre-skylake. Ain't gonna get 32GB of DDR4 for that price anytime soon.
 
chrispycrunch said:
Ddr4 is the next great thing, only you don't get a performance boost from it.
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Heard the same things about DDR3 early on (probably DDR2 too). In the end, it comes down to price. 16GB is fairly reasonable, but looks like that's all in 4GB Dimms, which means going to 32GB requires you to sell/toss old ram. Don't want to do that.
 
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