![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Silverstone SST-SX600-G 600w Gold SFX
- Thread starter m2h
- Start date
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
You keep repeating that
(... which means you are starting to doubt, and trying to reinforce it to yourself ...)
Possibly.. Cowsgomoo's solid numbers and fancy charts really swayed me
M1 v2 buyers, plus v1 buyers that have held off their builds for the SX600-G (or like myself, will be upgrading - plus guys needing one for other non-M1 SFF builds), might be a small drop in the overall bucket to them (seems doubtful for a niche PSU).. but I'm also trying to picture that particular demand as immediate sales in a very short period of time, versus the guys building $4k Titan-Z Ravens or whatever w/SFX in that same immediate timeframe.
No big deal, whatever works for their business model is ultimately their choice. I can stand to sit here and listen to my stupid 450W chattering away at idle for a few more months.
And, finally.. [H]ard|Gawd mode powers activate!
tetrismaster
Weaksauce
- Joined
- May 21, 2012
- Messages
- 77
Does the Dirac have semi-passive operation? Any word if it's also designed by Enhance? This hoopla could all be moot if it's not available outside of certain markets.
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
Not 100% sure, but I couldn't see any evidence of it being semi-fanless, based on the advertising of the package (a feature they would definitely advertise).
And also, not sure if there are still any around for electronics, but there used to be several companies that specialized in exporting car parts and electronics from Japan (some that sold particular high-demand items that were only available in Japan, and some that served as a shopping proxy for international buyers).
Just keep in mind that the price of their 650W is around 18,000¥ (roughly $175 USD) plus int'l shipping and/or export fees and/or import duty. This could easily become a $300 PSU, if imported.
Here's one shop that has the Dirac TCSXG-65 for pre-order, with availability expected on July 17th..
http://www.casemaniac.co.jp/208_4839.html
Phuncz
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,630
Hmm that is expensive for something that will come without a warranty and most likely a deep review.
Wow wow wow, wait. You mean this status has powers ?!
"Activating Noob Nuke©, launch in 5 seconds"
Haha you are all going to get kicked !!!
"...2..."
Hey what's this popup on my screen saying I'm going to get kicked ?
"...1...LAUNCH"
"Phuncz was kicked by Noob Nuke©"
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
Phuncz
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,630
My point exactly
More than you think, I'd say. Not by numbers, but by word of mouth.
To see if the hardware in my M1 would allow the SX600-G to run fanless in regular desktop use for me, I took some power measurements. It turned out a lot better than I had expected:
Idle: 60W DC
Watching high bitrate 1080p h.264 video: 65W DC
Browsing session (Firefox with many windows and tabs open, loading both cpu and gpu): 63W DC
2 hour ESO gaming session, 2560x1440, maximum graphics quality, v-blank off:
Peak: 303W DC
Average: 249W DC
i7 4770K and a GTX 780 Ti, both at stock clocks.
Measurements taken with an NZR SEM, 230V, for the whole system (not including the monitor). The DC power consumption was calculated from the AC measurement, taking into account the conversion efficiency of the ST45SF-G at each load point (230V, Sweclockers efficiency measurements (at the bottom of the page)).
Considering the 120W / 45 deg C limit for fan operation in the SX600-G, the fan will (probably) never run in regular desktop use for me (as long as the psu isn't indirectly heated by other components to pass 45 deg C of course). The joy!
At average/peak ESO gaming load, the fan would spin in the 1200-1300 rpm range according to the graph on Silverstone's info page. That shouldn't really be noisy at all (as long as the fan isn't a horrible little piece of hamster dung), and it's a huge improvement compared to the fan curve on the ST45SF-G (v 2.0).
I was going to get the SFX-L to reduce noise, but now I'm not so sure. The SX600-G might actually be silent enough for me, and it won't require force to squeeze it into the M1!
Idle: 60W DC
Watching high bitrate 1080p h.264 video: 65W DC
Browsing session (Firefox with many windows and tabs open, loading both cpu and gpu): 63W DC
2 hour ESO gaming session, 2560x1440, maximum graphics quality, v-blank off:
Peak: 303W DC
Average: 249W DC
i7 4770K and a GTX 780 Ti, both at stock clocks.
Measurements taken with an NZR SEM, 230V, for the whole system (not including the monitor). The DC power consumption was calculated from the AC measurement, taking into account the conversion efficiency of the ST45SF-G at each load point (230V, Sweclockers efficiency measurements (at the bottom of the page)).
Considering the 120W / 45 deg C limit for fan operation in the SX600-G, the fan will (probably) never run in regular desktop use for me (as long as the psu isn't indirectly heated by other components to pass 45 deg C of course). The joy!
At average/peak ESO gaming load, the fan would spin in the 1200-1300 rpm range according to the graph on Silverstone's info page. That shouldn't really be noisy at all (as long as the fan isn't a horrible little piece of hamster dung), and it's a huge improvement compared to the fan curve on the ST45SF-G (v 2.0).
I was going to get the SFX-L to reduce noise, but now I'm not so sure. The SX600-G might actually be silent enough for me, and it won't require force to squeeze it into the M1!
Last edited:
veryrarium
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 125
As I live in japan I can buy the Dirac 650W unit and at least open the enclosure up to show you guys the internal after I make sure it works fine and don't mind voiding the warranty before any of you guys who are interested in those Dirac units but hesitate an oversea purchase decide whether to import one or not. I'm not knowledgeable at all with electronics to be able to give any review on a PSU, let alone owning any testing tools for such, but probably some of you here can at least help us all in identifying the OEM and make other observations.
The price is a bit too much for me as I don't play games and need only mid-range discrete GPUs for madVR usage. but I kinda saved $$$ by deciding to pass the NCASE M1 v2 (...though that was because I'm saving $$$ to purchase Aibohphobia's mATX case
The price is a bit too much for me as I don't play games and need only mid-range discrete GPUs for madVR usage. but I kinda saved $$$ by deciding to pass the NCASE M1 v2 (...though that was because I'm saving $$$ to purchase Aibohphobia's mATX case
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
That's very kind of you, but please don't feel obligated to purchase and disassemble a brand-new Dirac solely for our amusement!
On the other hand, if you feel this is a PSU you actually want to own and can "pop the top" without damaging anything, then yes, we'll definitely enjoy seeing pics of such
Aibohphobia
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,340
Like AFD said, don't blow money on a PSU just to amuse us. The interest is mostly curiosity anyway since importing one will be prohibitively expensive for most people.
Are there Japanese PSU reviewers like JonnyGuru? If so, we could just wait for one of them to disassemble their review unit.
but I kinda saved $$$ by deciding to pass the NCASE M1 v2 (...though that was because I'm saving $$$ to purchase Aibohphobia's mATX case
Oh wow, you passed up an opportunity to own an M1 to wait for my design?!
Guess the pressure's on to deliver then Right now I'm waiting to hear back from the freelance engineer, hopefully within the next few days.
This came out of left field, didn't it? Interesting intermediate size between standard SFX and SFX-L. I like the move to a 92mm fan, and the wattage is impressive. The only thing that kind of sucks is the cross-wise AC inlet orientation, which makes both left-angle and right-angle connectors a questionable proposition, at least in the M1. I wonder if Enhance is the OEM for this as well? I'm not aware of any others companies doing high wattage SFX. I'm a little surprised at this alternate form factor though - that makes three different housings I've seen for Enhance SFX units now: the one for the ST45SF-G (and apparently the 600W as well); the one shown on Enhance's site, with the central 80mm fan; and this new Dirac. I'm curious if Silverstone has plans to adopt this model into their lineup as well.
I like how you butchered my username
Last edited:
FinnishNerdmare
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2013
- Messages
- 65
Am I reading this correctly, they are claiming to have 5 units in stock?
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00LBDZNKW/ref=asc_df_B00LBDZNKW19769109?smid=A3PDDE2YWGU6MQ&tag=geizhals10-21&linkCode=df0&creative=22506&creativeASIN=B00LBDZNKW
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00LBDZNKW/ref=asc_df_B00LBDZNKW19769109?smid=A3PDDE2YWGU6MQ&tag=geizhals10-21&linkCode=df0&creative=22506&creativeASIN=B00LBDZNKW
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
Yeah, it appears so! And the seller, VaVaDo has 671 reviews, 4.7/5.0 stars.. so could be legit.
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Yup, and "Unternehmensvertreter: Lifen Jiang" (i.e. company representative), makes me think that they may have a direct connection with China, and got these directly from the factory (if it is in China, but where else nowadays)?
I'm tempted to give it a try, if they ship outside Germany...
Yup. That's ... a bit strange. Anybody dare try?
I might have, but have made a pre-order already. Not sure the increased price is worth it to get it early. Including shipping it's around $65 more than what I paid. Think I'll pass
To the US, it would be 40 euros shipping, although you can subtract sales tax of 19%, it still comes out around $225
Link to shipping costs
Edit: sorry, I see you are Swedish, excuse the US assumption
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
I might have, but have made a pre-order already. Not sure the increased price is worth it to get it early. Including shipping it's around $65 more than what I paid. Think I'll pass
To the US, it would be 40 euros shipping, although you can subtract sales tax of 19%, it still comes out around $225
Yeah, it's expensive. Shipping to Sweden ~16 EUR. Couldn't restrain myself, so I bought one.
"Voraussichtliche Lieferung: 15. Juli 2014 - 1. August 2014", so "in stock" was a bit of a bullshit, but that's ok. Hopefully it won't stretch into September, but if it does, I'll cancel it.
Total sum paid: 182 EUR (247 USD).
Edit: I took another look at the order details and saw this: "Voraussichtliches Versanddatum: 7. Juli 2014 - 8. Juli 2014", so maybe they actually have it in stock after all. A bit strange that it would take until between the 15th of July and the 1st of August for it to arrive here though. Unless it's shipped directly from China. The plot thickens.
Edit 2: Perhaps it's one of the units that wouldn't pass the Titan Z test, but that makes zero difference to me.
Last edited:
Ah, interesting, that's a plausible explanation. I really hope this is the case!
Well, I'll be waiting patiently. No I won't. But I can try. A little.
Will definitely keep you posted!
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
Thanks for the research, backfeed!
This really should be repeated. I think it is too easy to underestimate the magnitude of the improvement. Let's illustrate: This chart shows the fan curve delta between version 1.1 and 2.0 of the 450W power supply, which improved noise from "really bad" to "pretty noisy":
That's a decent improvement at the lower speeds. But what about the new 600W? I've combined the data for both versions of the 450W PSU with that of the 600W below (numbers are from SilverStone's own charts):
First off: The first chart was quite misleading in that it had an arbitrary minimum y-axis value of 1200 RPM, which exaggerated the difference between the two versions. When you set RPM to zero, the gap becomes relatively narrow.
Secondly, though: It is without question that the distance between the 450W V2 and the 600W is a huge, huge drop. And in terms of noise-to-output, it's actually better than this graph suggests, since the x-axis is utilization and not wattage (think of it this way: 450W of supplied power with the 450W power supply is 100% utilization and ~2900 RPM, while on the 600W it is 75% utilization and only ~1300 RPM - less than half the RPM for the same amount of power!).
Since the loudness of a fan scales at a greater-than-linear rate as the RPM increases, these great speed decreases should mean even greater noise decreases as well, even if an identical(ly awful) fan is used.
So what do you get with the 600W when compared to the 450W, noise wise?
- Below 100W or so you have no noise at all, compared to 1500 RPM.
- At 250W you have 800 RPM or so, compared to 1800 RPM
- At 450W you have 1300 RPM compared to a very noisy 2900 RPM.
- With 90% utilization (540W) of the 600W power supply, 1800 RPM matches the noise of the 450W model at only 50% utilization (225W).
- Finally, even at a full-bore 600W, the resultant 2250 RPM is still less than the RPM of the former PSU when it is supplying only 335W!
Last edited:
I recall someone saying that this PSU was "the stuff of SFF legend" when word first broke out. This is why
Undoubtedly so! I hope it's as good in real life as on paper, but I'll find that out shortly (I hope).
Great work with the graph and the explanation, very well done and an interesting read!
Last edited:
vipz
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2005
- Messages
- 818
The graph would look even better for the 600W unit when you plot it against actual output in Watts instead of percentage.
80% of 450W = 360W = 60% of 600W
80% of 450W = 360W = 60% of 600W
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
Indeed. I would have posted that exact chart, but I made the previous one in a hurry with my tablet before boarding a plane - hence the sloppiness. But here are the two charts of interest: a redux of the first one, and a RPM-to-Wattage comparison for both units:
Note the following:
- The data is pulled from fan curve graphs provided by SilverStone. These are not measurements made from a unit. They are likely what SilverStone would expect temperatures (and thus RPM) to be in open, cool air.
- I used rolling averaging and linear smoothing to keep the curves consistent (non-continuous data can be jaggy). This shouldn't appreciably reduce accuracy.
- Although less/more RPM is generally equivalent to less/more noise, we don't know if the fans in these power supplies are the same, so we can't project how loud the SX600-G will be at a given RPM. That said, SilverStone does list a maximum volume of 40dBA on their website... If anyone could point me to (or provide) dB readings for any of the 450W units at a few intervals, I can also do the math to estimate loudness.
FinnishNerdmare
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2013
- Messages
- 65
As suspected, my order was cancelled since the merchant didn't really have any units available.
No SX600-G for me.
Where is it available for pre-order?
You are from Sweden right? I ordered mine here and sure they would send it to their neighbor
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/SST-SX600-G
But then again, I bet there are lots of retailers there in Sweden too.
Thanks for the tip, will look into it.
Swedish retailers are slow. New interesting hardware is usually always available in Finland quite a while before it shows up here. Posti's shipping is very expensive though, which usually prevents me from buying.
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
Thanks, and certainly.
You would think so - the reported RPM at 450W of output for the SX600-G is actually a tad lower than that of the ST45SF-G V2 at 0W/idle!
SilverStone calls the fans in both units a "Single 80mm silent fan", though. It may be possible that they are accepting higher peak internal temperatures for the SX600-G in order to keep RPMs down. Or, at least, that's my impression after seeing these charts:
(Temperature is delta-over-ambient, which was 40-45C during testing)
(From the product page on SilverStone's website)
But really, I hope that the higher retail cost means that they were able to spend a little more on a better qualify fan as well. I'll be really interested to see how this unit behaves in use and in testing, though I would give the unit fresh air (versus warm in-enclosure air) whenever possible).
The ST45SF has more than enough power for an i7 860 and a 280X. Not even an i7 4770K and a 290X is a problem. Well, unless you're overclocking like crazy, maybe.
September is my guess.
I asked the Swedish retailer Inet to make it available for purchase, and they did so earlier today. So for any swedes who want to get it, you can preorder it through them now, as I've done:
https://www.inet.se/produkt/6901849/silverstone-strider-sfx-600w-80-gold
Their ETA is currently the 16th of September.
https://www.inet.se/produkt/6901849/silverstone-strider-sfx-600w-80-gold
Their ETA is currently the 16th of September.
The ST45SF has more than enough power for an i7 860 and a 280X. Not even an i7 4770K and a 290X is a problem. Well, unless you're overclocking like crazy, maybe.
September is my guess.
interesting. my psu has had the chirping issue (only when running furmark) since i got it which i thought meant that it was providing around 400W or more based on other people's testing. i'll try plugging it into my kill-a-watt when my 280X gets here and see what my power draw is at the wall.
Chirping is just resonance from the VRMs, can also happen at medium loads, or certain cross-loads. I had a GTX560Ti that made the ST45SF chirp. There are also certain motherboards that made the V1.0 of the ST45SF chirp, but they fixed that after an angry thread here on [H] about it.
Edit: here's Tony Ou's response with the solution of the chirping http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037594637&postcount=47
Edit: here's Tony Ou's response with the solution of the chirping http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037594637&postcount=47
Last edited:
Ah, Furmark. Are you sure the noise came from the psu and not the voltage regulation modules on the graphics card? From my experience it's usually the latter, when running Furmark.
According to eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Pro, your system (at stock clocks) should max out at 377W DC if all components are at 100% load, which never happens in real life. At the wall you're also measuring the psu conversion losses, and would end up with 471W AC if the conversion efficiency of the psu is 80% (it's actually better then that, especially with a 230V electrical system, but I don't have the numbers available).
At 450W DC load, the specified maximum of the ST45SF, you'd end up with a 563W AC measurement at the wall (at the same 80% efficiency).