Trouble choosing memoy for new system - conflicting info

O

OBSESSION

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
78
In my absolute fear of building a system not as good as I could have built it, I'm struggling with my choice of memory. For some reason, choosing memory doesn't seem as easy as it was a couple years back. Maybe I'm just out of practice.

Anyway, critical information:
New system is slated to get an A64 3000+ or 3200+ plugged into an Asus K8V SE Deluxe mobo.

Anyway, Asus has a list of tested and qualified memory for this board. Fine. But then I read that article on memory/mobo match-ups on Tom's Hardware, and the list is different from what Asus says. Oh wait... that board isn't the "SE" version, is it? So anyway, then looking on the egg, I'm seeing different stuff listed when I search!

Argh! My head hurts!

So, in a nutshell, my questions/concerns are:

1. (1) 1GB DIMM or (2) 512MB DIMMs?
2. PC2100 (DDR266 133MHz), PC2700 (DDR333 166MHz) or PC3200(DDR400 200MHz)?
3. Brand? Price? Etc.
4. Aspirin or Tylenol?
 
1) two 512's
2) no lower than pc3200, you can't go wrong with Corsair 3200XL <-- XL!!.. If you already have BH-5/BH-6, just as good
3) already said that Corsair XL is good (must be xl!). Costs about $320-ish for 2x512. You could but 2x512 of BH-6 for about $300, or 2x512 of BH-5 off ebay for about $400.
4) aspirin.
5) that motherboard is teh sux. Get either MSI k8n neo platinum (the one with nforce 3 250Gb, or the chaintech mobo, also with nF3 250. Stay way from VIA!!!)
6) good luck.
 
Dude, aspirin? Can you say ulser? Get some advil, or if it's really bad maybe some excedrin.

Everything else though, I agree. You might wanna look at ddr500 (pc4000) if you are thinking about pushing a pretty hefty overclock at some point. If you are going to stay with the stock FSB of 200mhz then the corsair XL is definitely the way to go.
 
doesnt the Athlon 64 just have half the memory bandwidth (64bit) and no on die memory controller?
as opposed to the A64 FX (or Opteron) with 128bit and an on die dual channel memory controller?
why then dual sticks?
A64 vs A64FX
Opteron Memory Guide (most of which is applicable to the A64FX)

past that
I buy Crucial
guaranteed compatibility and limited lifetime warranty
of course you pay for that, and it aint overclockin RAM
but then I dont overclock workstations
 
Please delete your post and RTFM. If you don't know how to do that, RTFM on how to RTFM. GG thnx.
 
Ice Czar said:
doesnt the Athlon 64 just have half the memory bandwidth (64bit) and no on die memory controller?
as opposed to the A64 FX (or Opteron) with 128bit and an on die dual channel memory controller?
why then dual sticks?
A64 vs A64FX
Opteron Memory Guide (most of which is applicable to the A64FX)

past that
I buy Crucial
guaranteed compatibility and limited lifetime warranty
of course you pay for that, and it aint overclockin RAM
but then I dont overclock workstations
Click to expand...
Fine, I'll actually provide a logical explanation on why everything you said was complete and unabridged newb cheeze.

First of all, all AMD64 chips have an on-die memory controller. Second of all, the 64-bit bus doesn't cut the bandwidth; however, the memory controller can't talk to two sticks at once, and therefore it's impossible for them to operate in a dual-channel array.

Two sticks, because the alternative is even worse. You could always go 4x256, but you can't have more than 3 dimm slots on an s754 motherboard, so that rules that out. The 1gig sticks are much worse. First of all, because they are quadriple-banked, the memory controller wouldn't like four banks in one slot, so it simply wouldn't work. Even by some sort of miracle you did get it to work; all 1gig sticks have an uber-high latency, and are usually more expensive than 2x512 either way. Go figure.

Crucial is a generic brand. You get what you paid for, cheap memory that will (hopefully) work, but not with stellar performance, or amazing overclocking abilities. The OP, apparently, wants to build a kickass rig; "as good as he can build". Obvoiusly, some overclocking headroom will be appreciated. Even without that, the memory I listed would perform better than average at stock speeds. Corsair pc3200XL overclocks to DDR500 with slighly relaxed timings (2.5-3-3-8), which are much better than any other pc4000 stick out there. And that's at stock voltage of whopping 2.7vdimm!! I imagine that if you add more voltage, you could have 2-2-2-5 at DDR500, at about 2.9-3.1vdimm.

No need to go higher than DDR500, though (250MHz FSB, or as AMD likes to call it, "HTT"). Why, you may ask? Well, the chips can't handle an over 25% clock gain anyway. Some are a little better (such as Newcastles, which can go to about 2.6GHz up from 2.0), and some are worse (such as Clawhammer A643400+, which with it's high multiplier will reach 2.5-2.55GHz, but not very high HTT, if that's good or not, you figure, but the clock gain is clearly under 25%). A 3200+ Clawhammer can usually run stable at 2.4-2.5GHz (up from 2.0), while a 3400+ can run at 2.5-2.55GHz, up from 2.2. It can handle the exact same speeds if you lower the multiplier back to 10x (down from 11x), and run at 10x250; which will make it 2.5GHz. But then all you're basicly paying for is a hand-picked 3200+. That costs $120 more.

However, you do get better memory bandwidth at the same speed as opposed to running an 11x multiplier and a lower FSB. That may not be a good feature, because your RAM may not be able to keep up with the 250FSB you're asking for when using 10x multi or a 3200+ chips (with stock 10x multi!!). That is why I am recommending memory that can take you to 250MHz FSB. I am building a similar rig, only with a 3200+ (poor, I am) and I have BH-6 RAM, which can take me to ddr500 at 2-2-2-6 at 3.3vdimm.
 
M4d-K10wN said:
Fine, I'll actually provide a logical explanation on why everything you said was complete and unabridged newb cheeze.
Click to expand...

its rank cheeze :p

for future reference
statements end with periods. (.)
and questions end in question marks. (?)

thanks for the correction on the on die memory controller
reviewing where I thought I saw that, it turns out I scanned it too quickly

asking another question
not operating in dual channel mode doesnt constitute a decrease in total bandwidth?

regarding Crucial, "Crucial Technology®, a division of Micron"
regarding Micron: "Micron is one of the world's leading providers of advanced semiconductor solutions"

thats the very first time Ive ever heard Crucial described as either generic or cheap
I pointed out exactly what its advantage was, but I'll elaborate, at stock speeds, its a rock solid, stable, and guaranteed memory solution meaning both compatibility (the question of this post) and its warranty, something that is quite important in a workstation or server especially when you have over a thousand dollars wrapped up in RAM, and just to refresh your memory, few servers or workstations are ever overclocked

Interesting how you took the question to immediately mean overclocking
could just as easily be for an art student running a render machine
at least my recommendation was qualified (as in limited or restricted; not absolute )
another assumption I didnt make, was that the total RAM was going to be X

he might want to eventually populate the computer with highest possible amount of RAM, in which case a single stick of say 1GB, followed later with more, could be the way to go

in closing telling someone to RTFM isnt generally encouraged
at least when expressed like that
 
If you might in the furture, consider M4d-K10wN's recommendations

if on the other hand guranteed compatibility and the best replacement service in the industry holds more value to you
Id highly recommend Crucial, but its pricey
if your mobo isnt listed in the selector, give them a call or there is an online chat help, they will find exactly which sticks they guarantee compatible
 
I would never recommend crucial to anybody who is overclocking. Conversely however I always recommend it to people building a workstation or a gaming system which they aren't interested in overclocking. Crucial makes very good, well priced memory suited to the purpose for which it is intended.

As for telling Ice to RTFM, just hope that you never need any help with anything storage or server ops related here at the [H], because he'll probably just tell you to RT the FM that he's compiled...
 
I dont "think" it was intended towards me
but reviewing the time stamps, maybe your right :p
 
The only brands of RAM worth getting are OCZ, Corsair, Mushkin and Kingston (not in any particular order). Of course, i'm making a silly assumption that everybody wants a super-fast computer, if you don't want good performance, or to overclock, you can consider pretty much any memory brand out there. If you don't want to get Corsair 3200XL, but instead want to go with Winbond chips, here's a list of what sticks have what Winbond chips. BH-5 and BH-6 are the ones you want, BH-5 being the better ones. BH-6 is slightly cheaper, and isn't as good as "Revision 5" Samsung chips used in Corsair XL series (or OCZ's upcoming additions to the EL series), and BH-5 is more expensive, and about as good as Revision 5.
 
Based on the replies here, and since I don't plan to OC the system in any way: I was looking at Crucial. But the egg has 2 different 512MB sticks, so I'm not sure which is "better":

Crucial 184 Pin 512MB ECC DDR PC-3200 - OEM - $130
Model# CT6472Z40B
Item # N82E16820146534
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Crucial
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 3
Support Voltage: 2.5V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 64M x 72 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime

Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 8T - OEM - $92
Model# CT6464Z40B.8T
Item # N82E16820146541
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Crucial
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 3
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime

And then looking at the Corsair XL stuff, which looks more like XMS on the description. There were 5 items found when doing a search in memory with the only criteria being "xl" in the keyword area. Damn, that stuff is expensive! But again, what makes one better than another?

Does this mean the memory I chose on my "judgement day" thread in general hardware is crap? It was basic 512MB Corsair stuff at like $80-something a stick.
 
depending youd probably shave a few sheckles directly from crucial
(shipping is typically free)
http://www.crucial.com/store/listpa...fr=ASUS&cat=RAM&model=K8V+SE+Deluxe&submit=Go

well most people dont run ECC around here, Im an exception, but then there is no choice with my board
but Id want to run it anyway, and can be a consideration as you scale up to larger amounts of memory, running critical data
why dont you watch this > Memory Basics @ Corsair
its interactive (MM Breeze) you could simply skip ahead to DIMM Architecture ECC, but Id recommend you watch the whole thing, will explain other critical differences like CAS Latency (CL) which ideally you would want lower 2.5 being better than 3
(but I just noted in the list of available memory above 3 is the only choice for either ECC or non-parity)

ECC is slightly slower, and isnt really employed by any overclocker I know
but is common and often required in server\workstation level boards
it stands for error checking and correction

few more links
Error Correcting Memory - Part I
Error Correcting Memory - Part II: Myths and Realities
Memory Timings @ Lost Circuits
 
One thing that I saw that Anandtech did in a review was to not overclock the processor but instead to lower the multiplier while raising the FSB so that you end up with the same speed processor but the FSB is running much faster. I think on an AMD64 platform with OCZ 3700EB (Enhanced Bandwidth) they acheived DDR536 speeds with no actual overclock on the processor.
 
I tried 1 stick of Corsair 3200XL v1.1 in my Soltek nf250 unit and it wouldn't take as high of timings as the 2 x 256MB Kingmax PC3500 memory I had. I'm trying to find some memory for my Athlon 64 that will run 1GB @ 220MHz @ 2-2-2-7 T1. I currently have my 2 x 256 Kingmax at 220 @ 3-3-3-7 T1.
 
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