Samsung Readies 290-layer 3D NAND for May 2024 Debut, Planning 430-layer for 2025

[erek]

"The same source behind the 9th Gen V-NAND story also reports that the company is targeting a rather early 2025 launch for its successor—the 10th Gen V-NAND. This is expected to be a mammoth 430-layer 3D NAND flash, a jump of 140 layers over the 9th Gen (which itself jumped by 54 layers over its predecessor). This would put Samsung back on track along with its competitors, Kioxia, SK Hynix, Micron Technology, and YMTC, as they gun for the ambitious goal of 1000-layer 3D NAND flash by 2030."

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/321557/...or-may-2024-debut-planning-430-layer-for-2025

 

[1337Goat]

Now this is what I call real advancement.
We better count on Phison to innovate something competitive to counter this. Samsung holds its own against all others.
There is still a lot of room left to improve SSD controllers, and until that war is waged, it's time to behold the 10th generation of Samsung's V-NAND.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

I kind of feel it's a little comical that Samsung decided to stamp its company name on every single chip they could in this demo shot lol. I don't know why, it's just making me giggle a bit. Kind of surprised they didn't somehow find a way to snuggle a "Samsung" in above the only other labeled chip in this shot.

 

[mashie]

And the consumer SSDs will remain at 8TB or less.

 

[DPI]

I kind of feel it's a little comical that Samsung decided to stamp its company name on every single chip they could in this demo shot lol. I don't know why, it's just making me giggle a bit. Kind of surprised they didn't somehow find a way to snuggle a "Samsung" in above the only other labeled chip in this shot.

The messaging here is that they are fully vertical, while the rest of the market tends to be drives built with a hodge podge of third party components. It doesn't make Samsung drives immune to problems - the 980 Pro had some turbulence - but there's accountability, they own any problems. There's no second-guessing or component roulette like companies that may switch to cheaper, poorer-performing components after an initial wave of positive reviews.

There are drives out there that are ticking data-loss time bombs because a switch to a cheaper controller ended up being toxic when paired with certain NAND, and was only discovered by users comparing experiences online. And it's no fun scouring Amazon reviews to look for major complaints about component variance or a drive not performing as reviewed when making a buying decision. Many companies won't publicly acknowledge a problem or offer a recall/replace once discovered, and instead just silently correct new production while hoping any online backlash is minimal.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

The messaging here is that they are fully vertical, while the rest of the market tends to be drives built with a hodge podge of third party components.

I realized that, but the end result still looks silly to me. Just make it a bullet point on the side rather than making people guess why you have your logo stamped everywhere.

accountability, they own any problems.

... Do they? https://old.reddit.com/r/computers/...ng_denied_warranty_on_bad_firmware_drives_go/

I'm on my phone so my googling is limited, but it was my impression that they tried to shirk responsibility on the issue if anything.

switch to a cheaper controller ended up being toxic when paired with certain NAND, and was only discovered by users comparing experiences online. And it's no fun scouring Amazon reviews to look for major complaints about component variance or a drive not performing as reviewed when making a buying decision. Many companies won't publicly acknowledge a problem or offer a recall/replace once discovered, and instead just silently correct new production while hoping any online backlash is minimal.

Sure, but with how major Samsung's firmware issue was, it certainly doesn't inspire much more confidence in me. I think I also have an affected drive or two myself. Couldn't Samsung also decide to cheap out on a cheaper to produce controller, even if it is in-house?

Point is, consumers don't necessarily care whether all the stuff in their storage has you as the OEM. We just want reliability and accountability as you said. Samsung inspires neither in me, so for now I'm leaning towards WD. I don't understand the crazy loyalty they have built up even with all of these shenanigans, it honestly reminds me of the blind ASUS loyalty, even with its AM5 issues.

 

[THRESHIN]

So.....how long before I can replace my 16TB spinner with a 16TB M2 drive for a reasonable price point?

 

[Endgame]

And the consumer SSDs will remain at 8TB or less.

Fine with me, especially if they go back to lower latency NAND. I’d much rather have a 1Tb latency optimized SLC NVME drive than a 16 TB QLC drive. A low latency drive really improves the use case I want a NVME drive for. For bulk storage, I’m still fine with spinners

 

[DPI]

I realized that, but the end result still looks silly to me. Just make it a bullet point on the side rather than making people guess why you have your logo stamped everywhere.

... Do they? https://old.reddit.com/r/computers/...ng_denied_warranty_on_bad_firmware_drives_go/

I'm on my phone so my googling is limited, but it was my impression that they tried to shirk responsibility on the issue if anything.

Sure, but with how major Samsung's firmware issue was, it certainly doesn't inspire much more confidence in me. I think I also have an affected drive or two myself. Couldn't Samsung also decide to cheap out on a cheaper to produce controller, even if it is in-house?

Point is, consumers don't necessarily care whether all the stuff in their s torage has you as the OEM. We just want reliability and accountability as you said. Samsung inspires neither in me, so for now I'm leaning towards WD. I don't understand the crazy loyalty they have built up even with all of these shenanigans, it honestly reminds me of the blind ASUS loyalty, even with its AM5 issues.

Yep the 980 Pro was mentioned, and Samsung got a black eye for that one, but it doesn't appear to really be part of an overall pattern of behavior. Whereas the OEM's mixing and matching components as well as changing them without notice as they go are part of a more systemic problem created by a financial incentive in an oversight vacuum.

Joe slickdeals user might not care how the sausage is made and is only concerned with price/TB and the big CrystalDiskMark sequential numbers, but on a hardware forum here the details can be worth paying attention to.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

Yep the 980 Pro was mentioned, and Samsung got a black eye for that one, but it doesn't appear to really be part of an overall pattern of behavior. Whereas the OEM's mixing and matching components as well as changing them without notice as they go are part of a more systemic problem created by a financial incentive in an oversight vacuum.

Joe slickdeals user might not care how the sausage is made and is only concerned with price/TB and CrystalDiskMark sequential R/W numbers, but on a hardware forum here the details can be worth paying attention to.

So you read the serial numbers on each IC on the PCB? That's great. But I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung also did some cost cutting measures over time, like making chips that were "supposedly comparable" to ones on the device (and labeling them the same), or making PCB layout revisions over time. Or hell maybe they just manufacture a chip labeled the same as another, because it's "functionally the same". I just would not be surprised in the slightest if they practice some slightly different forms of fuckery themselves. Unfortunately I think the name of the game in corporate economy is "do what you can, even if it's ethically grey, because maybe the savings outweigh the slap on the wrists later." At the end of the day, all having a "Samsung chip" inside means is that you have exactly that, not that it's the same one.

I think WD uses its own in-house controller as well, as does maybe Hynix (?). It's mostly the lower end bargain chips that I think you have to worry about and inspect carefully, like Teamgroup or all of that crap. Also as as a person that owns some other Samsung products (namely S23 Ultra), they kind of tend to force the firmware and software updates down your throat. The way they handled the firmware debacle was absolutely deplorable IMO, and it'll take quite a while before they regain my trust. Frankly I would prefer the risk of having swapped components with slightly different performance numbers, to the possibility of having a dead drive within months, and them just shirking all responsibility for that. Swapped components are at least being called to attention, so I think the budget lines will hopefully start being more careful about exactly what they put in there.