power 17 HDDs?

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kairos

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Apr 16, 2002
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The title says it all. The largerst pc power and cooling says it only handels 12 drives. I'll have 17 plus 9 fans and the processor and mb. I'm looking at this enermax http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-438&depa=0

Anyone have some experiance with it. Will it handel what I need.

PS there will be two raid 5 arrays in there each powered by an 8 channel 3ware escalade card. I believe the card staggers the powering of the drives at startup. I could use the input as I'll be picking something up in the next two weeks.
 
why not just add a 2nd power supply. thats alot of stuff even for the biggest PSU.
 
call up PCP&C and see if they can build you a PSU that can handle your load.

i bet the stock Turbo-Cool 510w unit would do just as good or better than that Enermax.
 
@filter - 2 power suplies was the way I was originaly going to go, but I would have to mod my case for it to work. I would rather nor mod it, its shuch a nice case. I figured if they made a case to hold that many drives there should be a power supply ot there to power them. Just for info the case is the new lain-li PC-V2000.

call up PCP&C and see if they can build you a PSU that can handle your load.
Click to expand...

I never thought of that, but I wonder what the cost would be. It would definetly be cheaper than if the enermax ps went out and I had to get another one. Or if the surge corrupted my arrays (that would be devistating).

@Vertigo Acid - thanks for the link looking at it now
 
http://www.zippy.com.tw/P_product_d..._code=PSL-6700P
Click to expand...

It looks like the zippy has one rail of +12v at 32 Amp max. The pc power and cooling has 34 Amp max on the 510 watt. I would think I need the most amps in the +12V rail. That is the only reason I thought the enermax was sufficient. It has 18A, 18A, and 15A spread out over three 12V rails placing it at a total of 51A. Am I missing something here or are these numbers not accurate. It looks as though the enermax would have sufficient power since the amps are almost 1 1/2 times that of the pc cooling. The pc cooling is rated at 12 drives, then 12*1.5=18 drives. Of course this is all if the numbers are true on the enermax. So any users out ther with this power supply

Otherwise I would hate to have to buy two power supplies and splice wires to make them work. I hate voiding my warranty.
 
jen4950 you beat me to it :p

however there are plenty of monsters out there

N+1 Redundant EPS12V PSUs +700watts

as a note, I had no problems running 12 HDDs and 2 opticals on a
Zippy Emacs MR3-6450P
but then it wasnt EPS12V or ATX12V, thus no dual or Quad +12V rails
and it was an older mobo (KR7A) much less sensitive than the current crop
it probably had considerable spinup instability

are these SCSI drives?
youd then be able to set a delayed spinup
 
According to the Hitachi website, the Deskstar drives draw 2.0 amps peak on their 12 volt supply at startup, and a peak of 1.2 amps on their 5 volt input.

Seventeen drives, huh? So, you're at 34 amps for 12 volts, and 20.4 amps for 5 volts total.

This Enermax supply has what it takes. I don't know if it has enough left over for the rest of the system, though.

Drives, which have motors, are funny because the peak startup current is very high. Like Ice Tsar says, most SCSI drives let you use a jumper to stagger the start-up of some of the drives and that helps the power supply (and planning!) significantly. If you can do that, I would expect that this power supply will run a server-grade system (that is, no fancy, power-hungry graphics card).

.B ekiM
 
Id have to check at the manufactuers website, but the link states its ATX which would have a shared rail with the CPU,
Id definately recommend an ATX12V v2 with dual rail or EPS12V

ATX12V v2.0
1.2 Key Changes for ATX12V Version 2.0 as Compared with ATX power Supply

This section briefly summarizes the major chaanges made to this document that now defines ATX12V power supply. With the move to 12V voltage regulators for the processor, ATX guidlines for 5V as main power are no longer provided.

1.2.1 Increased +12 VDC output capability
System components that use 12V are continuing to increase in power. In cases where expected current requirements is greater than 18A a second 12V rail should be made available. ATX12V power supplies should be designated to accommodate these increased +12VDC currents.

1.2.3 Main Power Connector
The 2 x 10 main power connector has been replaced by a 2 x 12 connector. This was made to support 75 watt PCI Express requirements. Pinout asignments are based on the SSI recommendation.
With the added 12V, 5V, and 3.3V pins the need for an Aux Power connector is no longer needed and the guidance for this connector removed.

1.2.4 Seperate current limit for 12V on the 2x2 connector:
the 12V rail on the 2x2 power connector should be a seperate current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950

4.5.1. ATX Main Power Connector
Connector Molex housing: 24 pin Molex Mini-Fit Jr. PN# 39-01-2240 or equivalent
(Mating motherboard connector is Molex 44206-0007 or equivalent)
18 AWG is suggested for all wires except for the +3.3V sense return wire pin 11 (22 AWG)
(For 300 W configurations, 16 AWG is recommended for all +12VDC, +5VDC, +3.3VDC and COM
Pin.....Signal.......................Color.........Key
1........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Square
2........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Dome
3........COM.........................Black........Dome
4........+5VDC......................Red...........Square
5........COM.........................Black........Square
6........+5VDC......................Red...........Dome
7........COM.........................Black........Dome
8........PWR_OK..................Grey..........Square
9........+5VSB......................Purple.......Square
10.......+12V1DC..................Yellow.......Dome
11.......+12V1DC..................Yellow.......Dome
12.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Square

13.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Dome
[13].....[+3.3V default sense...Brown......Square
14.......-12VDC......................Blue.........Square
15........COM.........................Black........Square
16........PS_ON#....................Green.......Dome
17........COM.........................Black........Dome
18........COM.........................Black........Square
19........COM.........................Black........Square
20........Reserved...................N/C...........Dome
21........+5VDC......................Red..........Dome
22........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
23........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
24........COM.........................Black........Dome

4.5.2 +12V Power Connector
Connector Molex 39-01-2040 or equivalent
(Mating motherboard connector is Molex 39-29-9024 or equivalent)
Pin.....Signal.........18 AWG Wire................Key
1........COM..........Black............................Square
2........COM..........Black............................Dome
3........+12V2DC....Yellow / Black Stripe......Dome
4........+12V2DC....Yellow / Black Stripe......Square
Click to expand...

EPS12V v2.02

Revision History

6.1.1 12V Power Rail Configuration

There are two types of 12V rail configurations for systems: 'Common plane' and "Split plane' processor power delivery. The 'commob plane' system has both processors powered from a single 12V rail (+12V1) from the power supply. The 'split plane' system has both processors powered by seperate 12V rails (+12V1 and +12V2) one dedicated to each processor. The system in both cases, has an additional 12V rail to power the rest of the baseboard +12V loads and dc/dc converters. +12V1, +12V2 and +12V3 should not be connected together on the baseboard to ensure that 240VA protection circuits in the power supply operate properly

Table 6: 12V Rail Summary
........................................................................................................................................................................................
Common Plane System........................................................Split Plane System
+12V1........Processors.........................................................+12V1........Processor 1
+12V2........Baseboard components other than processors.......+12V2........Processor 2
+12V3........Drives and peripherals..........................................+12V3........Baseboards and components other than processors
...........................................................................................+12V4........Drives and peripherals

Table 7: P1 Baseboard Power Connector - Common Plane

Pin.....Signal.......................Color.........Key
1........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Square
..........3.3RS.......................Orange w\ white Stripe
2........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Dome
3........COM.........................Black........Dome
4........+5VDC......................Red...........Square
5........COM.........................Black........Square
6........+5VDC......................Red...........Dome
7........COM.........................Black........Dome
8........PWR_OK..................Grey..........Square
9........+5VSB......................Purple.......Square
10.......+12V2..................Yellow.......Dome
11.......+12V2..................Yellow.......Dome
12.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Square

13.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Dome
14.......-12VDC......................Blue.........Square
15........COM.........................Black........Square
16........PS_ON#....................Green.......Dome
17........COM.........................Black........Dome
18........COM.........................Black........Square
19........COM.........................Black........Square
20........Reserved (-5V in ATX)..N/C...........Dome
21........+5VDC......................Red..........Dome
22........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
23........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
24........COM.........................Black........Dome

Table 7: P1 Baseboard Power Connector - Common Plane

Pin.....Signal.......................Color.........Key
1........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Square
..........3.3RS.......................Orange w\ white Stripe
2........+3.3VDC...................Orange......Dome
3........COM.........................Black........Dome
4........+5VDC......................Red...........Square
5........COM.........................Black........Square
6........+5VDC......................Red...........Dome
7........COM.........................Black........Dome
8........PWR_OK..................Grey..........Square
9........+5VSB......................Purple.......Square
10.......+12V3..................Yellow.......Dome
11.......+12V3..................Yellow.......Dome
12.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Square

13.......+3.3VDC...................Orange.....Dome
14.......-12VDC......................Blue.........Square
15........COM.........................Black........Square
16........PS_ON#....................Green.......Dome
17........COM.........................Black........Dome
18........COM.........................Black........Square
19........COM.........................Black........Square
20........Reserved (-5V in ATX)..N/C...........Dome
21........+5VDC......................Red..........Dome
22........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
23........+5VDC......................Red..........Square
24........COM.........................Black........Dome


6.1.3 Required Processor Power Connector
Connector Housing: 8-pin Molex 39-01-2080 or equivalent
Contact: Molex 44476-1111 or equivalent

Table 9: Processor Power Connector-Common Plane
Pin.....Signal.........18 AWG Wire................Key
1........COM..........Black............................Square
2........COM..........Black............................Dome
3........COM..........Black............................Dome
4........COM..........Black............................Square

5........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Dome
6........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Square
7........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Square
8........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Dome

Table 10: Processor Power Connector-Split Plane
Pin.....Signal.........18 AWG Wire................Key
1........COM..........Black............................Square
2........COM..........Black............................Dome
3........COM..........Black............................Dome
4........COM..........Black............................Square

5........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Dome
6........+12V1........Yellow / Black Stripe......Square
7........+12V2........Yellow...........................Square
8........+12V2........Yellow ..........................Dome
Click to expand...
 
Ice Czar said:
Id have to check at the website, but the link states its ATX which would have a shared rail with the CPU, Id definately recommend an ATX12V with dual rail
or EPS12V
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah; I forgot about that.

.B ekiM
 
its likely compliant anyway its certainly not ATX
they just get listed that way to avoid confusing the general public enthusiast
and to make it harder for me personally :p

but determining what the rails break out as would be important
 
Just to make a few things clear. These are the PATA Maxtor 250 GB HDDs w/ 8 meg cache. They will be conected to the 3ware ecsalade raid card. It supports a delayed spinup so I would not have to worry about start up as much as once the computer is running. I'd rather not go above $300 for the power supply since I could just get two for $150 and it would run fine.

the specs are:

SuperMicro P4SCi
P4 3.0E Processor
Lain-li PC-V2000 Case
2x 3ware Escalade 7506-8 RAID cards
16x Maxtor 250GB HDD
1x WD 36GB Raptor
7x Coolermaser Cooldrive 3
2X 120mm Case Fans
 
kairos said:
Just to make a few things clear. These are the PATA Maxtor 250 GB HDDs w/ 8 meg cache. They will be conected to the 3ware ecsalade raid card. It supports a delayed spinup so I would not have to worry about start up as much as once the computer is running. I'd rather not go above $300 for the power supply since I could just get two for $150 and it would run fine.

the specs are:

SuperMicro P4SCi
P4 3.0E Processor
Lain-li PC-V2000 Case
2x 3ware Escalade 7506-8 RAID cards
16x Maxtor 250GB HDD
1x WD 36GB Raptor
7x Coolermaser Cooldrive 3
2X 120mm Case Fans
Click to expand...

Your a monster!
 
Watch what enclosures you use with the 3Ware card. I have the same card and had some issues with hotswap enclosures i got from servercase.com because it wasn't immediately telling the card that a drive had failed/been removed. I ended up with 2 of these which are recommended by 3Ware and work great.
 
pardon my ignorance, but how on earth would you delay startup of an ide disk? SCSI disks ok, they have a startup jumper 99% of the time... but every IDE disk ive seen spins up as soon as power is applied? :confused:
 
pardon my ignorance, but how on earth would you delay startup of an ide disk? SCSI disks ok, they have a startup jumper 99% of the time... but every IDE disk ive seen spins up as soon as power is applied?
Click to expand...

I really have no idea how its done, but it does it. If you look at the 2nd page of the data sheet on the link I posted on the 3ware card it says it does staggered spinup.
 
kairos said:
I really have no idea how its done, but it does it. If you look at the 2nd page of the data sheet on the link I posted on the 3ware card it says it does staggered spinup.
Click to expand...

ya but IDE dosent have a "spinup" command AFAIK like scsi does... :confused:

maybe with special IDE trays it applies power when the controller sais to? dunno :confused:
 
What case are you using that holds 17HD's and doesn't have room for a second power supply?
 
a basic 4U rackmount would likely qualify in that regard
mine does
Case5.jpg

(before I ditched all those carriers)
 
can't believe you are buying 17 hard drives and not one of them is a 74GB Raptor
 
There is a 34GB Raptor in there for the OS. I need space not speed. At most two computers will be accessing it at once. I've decided to go with the enermax. I called newegg and made sure I could return it if it wasn't powerful enough. I should have all the parts within the next two weeks so I can report wether it was a success or not.
 
FLECOM said:
ya but IDE dosent have a "spinup" command AFAIK like scsi does... :confused:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the ATA specifications are now ANSI-standard documents, which means you have to pay to get them. http://www.ent.ohiou.edu/~welker/ide.txt has the text of a pretty early version.

Anyway, according to that doc, 0xE0 and 0xE1 are spin up and spin down, respectively.

.B ekiM
 
having pc power and cooling build one for you (this is possible?) is going to be expensive. it would be interesting to find out how much (hell, their stock psus are expensive)
 
It's better IMO to use a separate PSU for the hard drives instead of having the system PSU handle all that load.

When I use to use SCSI, I used an old AT PSU to run the drives and had no problems.
 
BBnet3000 said:
having pc power and cooling build one for you (this is possible?) is going to be expensive. it would be interesting to find out how much (hell, their stock psus are expensive)
Click to expand...

In the process. :D

They added $55 for the changes I made to their standard 510 Deluxe. Here is the schematic of what I am getting; I'll post pics when I get it in a week or two.

PCPAC_510_Custom.jpg


PC-76 Quickly filling up...

PICT1512_W.jpg
 
mmmmmmmmmmm.....


four terabytes of pr0n......


that is one heck of a machine, cant wait to see finished pics
 
What exactly is this machine going to be storing considered the massive amount of storage you are going to have with this machine. Want to send it over my way??
 
It's a multimedia server. I rip my dvd collection on there, I place XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on it, and store my pictures and audio files. I don't like to lose quality, so I don't compress the video files, just rip the VOB's right to the hard drive. I then stream the files over my home network to any computer. Its like a video on demand server.

Its cheaper and easier than copying all my dvds multiple times (one for every tv in the house) and then getting a dvd changer (which won't hold nearly as many dvds). This way I throw a pc or if I want to save money a moded x-box on each tv and there you have it.

Technicly its a 3.5 TB server, since I'll have 2 RAID 5 arrays. I've only got 100 DVDs right now or so, but I figure over time the more I get the more I'll throw on there. It's going to take a little time to get this together as newegg has the 3ware card and my case both on backorder. The power supply should be here in a week. I'll test it without the RAID cards I guess. If it works without them then it will most certainly work with them.
 
unless your Rupert Murdoch Id avoid posting anything about TV Episodes
especially any that wouldnt have been released to DVD for sale and thus legally backedup to your PC ;)

and if you are, Id like a charitable donation :p
 
forgive my ignorance but I don't see what I'm doing any differant from a tivo.

Anyway, point taken unless I am Rupert Murdoch. :D
 
There's a "turn off hard disks" power management option in Windows and I've seen an option to delay hard drive spinup in the BIOS of older mobos as well.
 
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