Dead Dream Machine :(

N

Notquiteanewbie

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
221
Need Help!?
Well I was all set to build my dream machine so to speak
some specs:
Asus p4p800
pentium 4 2.4c
2x256 mushkin 3200
antec 400watt
chieftec matrix case
radeon 9600

anyway i was weaing my wrist strap and took every precaution, however tragedy strikes. I went to put power to awaken the beast, it got power for literally 1 second and shut back down, i looked over everything and made three hypotheses.

1. radeon 9600 is a 3.3v agp card, mobo ONLY accepts 1.5v

2. Bad power supply, never did the paper clip test but power died however when i attempted to remedy things, the mobo led still went on when flipping the switch but absolutely nothing when pushing the button, never heard my fans turn on either, but then again not much can happen in 1 second.

3. bad motherboard

since this was my first new system in a while i couldnt test parts in another machine so that kinda sucked, so just rma'd everything.

can anyone tell me the actually effects of installing a 3.3v in a 1.5 only agp slot, even though they still fit physically, what effects does it have electrically?

anyone think its a power supply problem?

comments are welcome

:)

had my arctic silver, and was all set to overclock this bad boy too damn, should get everything back in about a week, so anything I learn now will help
 
The power went on then off? Ok so you flipped the power supply switch and it went on? Or you turned on your computer with the activation switch on the front of the case? Sometimes when new comps wont turn on its cause of the front power switch wires not being on the right pins. Are you sure everything there was set right.
 
I turned the switch on in the back (on the power supply) then i hit the switch in the front. It turned on, the green led went on, then after about 1 second it turned off.
 
There was one other issue, connecting the front panel connections to the motherboard, i checked and rechecked a billion times to make sure i was doing it right. I connected the power hd speaker and reset and they were all orientated upwards meaning that you could see the words on the connector however when i went to connect the power sw, the image in the mobo manual called for the ground wire to be on the right which complies with other images i've seen. so i had to flip the orientation of that 2 pin connector down ward so you couldn't see the writing so that the ground wire (black) was on the right. hope that makes sense, the wire was braided and they had the ground (blackwire) on the left so i flipped it so it was on the right
 
Instead of RMA'ing everything, did you check to see that everything was seated properly, that all cables were connected?

Then did you test it to see if it would do anything with just ram, cpu and the video card in?

People here can step you through the process so you can possibly find which part specifically was defective.
 
When I hooked up the front lights and power switch to my motherboard the only ones that which I screwed up were the lights, I just had to flip the connectors over.
 
Doesn't the video card have an extra power connector?

I've hooked up my 9800p without the connector before. It didn't work, but it didn't break anything.
 
kinda silly to post after you already RMAed everything.

I bet your system was being grounded by the case.
 
no i didn't ground the motherboard to the case, its separated with the standoffs.

well i posted because the parts are being replaced and being sent to me next week.

can anyone tell me the effects installing a 3.3v video card in a 1.5v ONLY agp slot. the electrical effects.

thanks guys
 
Your motherboard was grounded someplace it shouldn't have been. Either that or you didn't have enough power for the system, but since it was a 400watt, I doube that was it.

Before you RMA everything, you shoudl pull it all out of the case and try it on your kitchen table. If it works there, then be extra careful putting it all back together again.

The only one of those front panel connectors you need when testing is the power switch. I usually leave the rest of them off until I get the system running.
 
Originally posted by Notquiteanewbie
no i didn't ground the motherboard to the case, i
Click to expand...

actually you dont know that.

as above you should have pulled it out and tried it on your kitchen table.

btw: there is a fourth possibility you may not want to hear.


4. user error
 
sorry Nihilanth99 the asus radeon 9600 se is a 3.3v agp video card. if you look at the way its key you'll notice thats it missing 1 notch, additionally when you look on the pcb of the card it clearly states 3.3v.

in regards to user error i'm not out ruling that however, i am looking for actually answers rather than criticisms.

please enlighten about me not grounding correctly because i was always taught that you have a greater chance of frying a motherboard if you do not mount it onto the stand offs, additionally my motherboard manual also says to mount it onto the stand offs
 
you may want to check to make sure you didnt have any extra stand offs that weren't being used ... also if you had front USB connectors, make sure they were connected properly ...

good luck
 
If I were you, I would RMA it and exchange for an Abit AI7 or IS7.. those asus' are just too mass produced with bad capacitors
 
thanks for the tip discostu.
well i bought it from newegg so they are either gonna repair or replace it. i was actually considering the abit ic7 however i chose the asus because the abit didn't have onboard lan. the p4p800 is also onboard gigabit support.
 
Originally posted by Notquiteanewbie
sorry Nihilanth99 the asus radeon 9600 se is a 3.3v agp video card. if you look at the way its key you'll notice thats it missing 1 notch, additionally when you look on the pcb of the card it clearly states 3.3v.
Click to expand...

The card will work fine in an agp 1.5v slot. quote from ati:


compatible with AGP 4X (1.5V), 8X (0.8v) or Universal AGP 3.0 bus configuration (4X/8X).

Originally posted by Notquiteanewbie


please enlighten about me not grounding correctly because i was always taught that you have a greater chance of frying a motherboard if you do not mount it onto the stand offs, additionally my motherboard manual also says to mount it onto the stand offs
Click to expand...

Before I install a system I always plug in just the power cord ( as mentioned) and then I install the core components (ram,cpu, and videocard)

On top of an anti-static bad (the one that came with the motherboard) I then turn it on.

If it gets to BIOS thats great and I know there is nothing wrong. This way if a problem pops up I didnt waste time installing it all and troubleshooting everything,
 
Originally posted by Notquiteanewbie
thanks for the tip discostu.
well i bought it from newegg so they are either gonna repair or replace it. i was actually considering the abit ic7 however i chose the asus because the abit didn't have onboard lan. the p4p800 is also onboard gigabit support.
Click to expand...

If your looking for suggestions the ati9600se (slow edition) is pretty sad.

You can get alot better for just a little bit more (or even less sometimes).
 
this has happened to me a few times, and after a long time of trouble shooting i realiaed that the problem was the same every single time. I had a bare wire(or other thing of the sort) touching the metal part of the case, in turn sending my PSU to ground and causing the problem u mentioned.

u should always look for that, good luck when all ur RMA'S get back
 
well unfortunately money is usually the bottleneck when building a new system. the money i spent shipping items back put me a lil over my budget, so i gotta skimp on the video card. as far as the quote from ati, i'm just telling you want me motherboard says, installing a 3.3v card in this slot can/may cause harm to the motherboard. with that said i don't think its worth chancing everything on what a third party.

i'm interested in learning a lil bit more about your bare wire experience though. thanks again guys i should get my new hardware this coming thursday or friday

might undertake it with a few friends just to make sure nothing is over looked, thanks again
 
Hehe, don't worry everyone, once he gets all the new parts in I will go and build it for him and make sure it gets done right. And yes "Notquiteanewbie" the IC7 does own :D
 
Yes a 3.3V card can harm the motherboard. The 9600se IS NOT a 3.3V card. If it was, it wouldn't be 8X compatible, and the hits on google wouldn't ALL state that it's 1.5V. Plus there is a extra notch in the 4X/8X 1.5V AGP slots that prevents you from installling a 3V card.

It sounds like either a fan wasn't plugged into the right header, or something was being grounded that shouldn't have been.
 
had my arctic silver, and was all set to overclock this bad boy too damn
Click to expand...

i'd be willing to bet there lies your answer. if your system powered on and then off immediately, then it probably shorted (permanently) out something. when you build your new system do it in small steps. get the cpu/mobo/mem/vid working in the case first then add your other components and hook up drives and such.

edit: i would stay away from arctic silver, it actually performs a little worse than their newest paste which has no metal properties.

edit2: just checked cant put a 3.3v card into the p4p800. have both here at work.
 
good stuff guys, hard forum definitely rocks
tips were great

o2sk8 thinks he knows his stuff, but we'll see when we get back to school :D

wow i've never heard anyone give arctic silver a bad review
i actually have ceramique and i've heard nothing but raves

i don't think i'm gonna debate about this voltage thing again, just telling you what i physically saw and had in my hands and not reading on some website.

i'll be sure to update you guys on this dream machine next week and tell you how things are going hopefully well

comments still welcome
 
Originally posted by ullyeus
I bet your system was being grounded by the case.
Click to expand...
i almost positive you're right, his system had the classic symptoms... powering on for 1 sec then.....nothing. Just because a mobo is installed on standoffs doesn't mean it's properly grounded, especially when the standoffs are metal themselves. An easy way to avoid a grounding issue is to cut electrical tape into 1/2 square strips. Use each strip to cover each standoff and when installing the mobo just puncture the fastening screw through the tape. Has worked every single time for me.

Edit: I'll bet a ton of Newegg's refurb psu's were actually just grounding issues.
 
Originally posted by Notquiteanewbie

i don't think i'm gonna debate about this voltage thing again, just telling you what i physically saw and had in my hands and not reading on some website.
Click to expand...
The reason you're seeing 3.3 is the following:
Confused? That's because many are talking, and few know what they're talking about.

Voltages on AGP.

Card supply voltage is always 3.3V.

Signalling voltage is 3.3V on 1x/2x modes, and 1.5V on 4x/8x modes. 8x uses a reduced voltage swing of 0.8V.

By how things are defined in the AGP 3.0 specification, 8x cards and boards must always also support 4x.
-Peter M
http://www.sysopt.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=145110
Click to expand...

I know he's right, check the specs for AGP if you really want, I didn't feel like looking for them.
 
Originally posted by SJetski71
i almost positive you're right, his system had the classic symptoms... powering on for 1 sec then.....nothing. Just because a mobo is installed on standoffs doesn't mean it's properly grounded, especially when the standoffs are metal themselves. An easy way to avoid a grounding issue is to cut electrical tape into 1/2 square strips. Use each strip to cover each standoff and when installing the mobo just puncture the fastening screw through the tape. Has worked every single time for me.

Edit: I'll bet a ton of Newegg's refurb psu's were actually just grounding issues.
Click to expand...
you should really use "shorted" instead of "grounded" when referring to the mobo touching the case...people tend to think that "grounded=good".
 
if it turns out the card is 3.3 (not arguing with anyone) then it would make sense, i also have an asus mobo and know that for atleast my mobo when you have a 3.3 and put it in a 1.5 slot the comp will not turn on (assuming you dont have extra power to the card eg on the 9800) and according to asus the mobo wont accept it despite what ati says, and it wont damage the mobo, hence why it refuses to turn on
 
Originally posted by jagec
you should really use "shorted" instead of "grounded" when referring to the mobo touching the case...people tend to think that "grounded=good".
Click to expand...
Yea I was reading all this and I kept thinking 'I thought grounding was a good thing'
 
Originally posted by ullyeus
kinda silly to post after you already RMAed everything.

I bet your system was being grounded by the case.
Click to expand...

Ha i was going to say the same thing..Been ther done that :D
 
I had this happen with my last computer (tb 1.3ghz on an asus board) what was wrong was that the cpu fan was on the wrong header which causes them to not boot because the board thinks the cpu will burn up...so this is a possibility too.

There is roughly a 268% chance it was not the voltage of the 9600 almost no boards support the old voltages anymore. A lot of people here on this forum are using them just fine (me at one time also).
 
Originally posted by jagec
you should really use "shorted" instead of "grounded" when referring to the mobo touching the case...people tend to think that "grounded=good".
Click to expand...

point taken, though I think everyone knew what I meant.

its kinda like how "ghosting" isnt what most people think, its actual "trailing"

"ghosting" is when you see things double
 
the wrist strap was my problem huh, wow.
obviously a joke
great tips though guys, especially the electrical tape thing, never heard that one before
 
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