Custom watercooling loop kits vs AIO, and some questions

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sram

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Customized watercooling no longer offer a big advantage over best air coolers and AIO's, but if you want silence and looks, and want to overclock a new threadripper(sTR5 socket), then the story will change and it will become applicable again. My last two custom loops were from XSPC. I buy ready kits from them. The last one you see in my sig is this one:

https://www.xs-pc.com/discontinued-eol/raystorm-twin-d5-rx480-v3-watercooling-kit

I have been using since 2017 with no maintenance and it is still kicking it. Unfortunately, XSPC doesn't sell kits anymore and I'm wandering if I can still find high performing watercooling kits with a 480mm radiator or customize an existing kit. The closest I could find is this:

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-pro-qdc-kit-p360-amd-str-sp3

And it seems they don't have waterblocks for the new threadrippers. Or they will start making them soon?

My main goal of course is to enable the overclock.

Am I only left with buying parts individually? I don't want to miss anything!

Thanks.
 
lol depends on what your putting it on but generally custom out performs aios.
kits have always been few and far between.
the new threadrippers use the same socket as the old ones and the block should work fine. thats what j2c used in the video ive mentioned before in the other threads.
1701969936837.png
 
pendragon1 said:
lol depends on what your putting it on but generally custom out performs aios.
kits have always been few and far between.
the new threadrippers use the same socket as the old ones and the block should work fine. thats what j2c used in the video ive mentioned before in the other threads.
View attachment 618628
Click to expand...

Yeah, back when I thought I was going to get a new Threadripper at launch, I contacted Watercool to see if my Heatkiller IV for TRX40 would work on TRX50, and they told me that on paper both dimension and retention force were a fit, they just hadn't made any official claims yet as they didn't have any TRX50 hardware to test on at that time.
 
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sram said:
Customized watercooling no longer offer a big advantage over best air coolers and AIO's, but if you want silence and looks, and want to overclock a new threadripper(sTR5 socket), then the story will change and it will become applicable again. My last two custom loops were from XSPC. I buy ready kits from them. The last one you see in my sig is this one:
Click to expand...

Customized water cooling is still a great way to get lower temps and lower noise.

Whether or not those lower temps actually result in better overclocks is a different story all together. Back in the day, in the ~32nm and higher era, overclocks were usually limited by thermals. If it wasn't stable, just increase voltage. It will output more heat though so you need more cooling.

That's not the way it works anymore. Overclocking is way more hit or miss. Low temperatures can help, but you are also much more likely to hit a hard wall based on chip quality and design than we were back then.

When it comes to AIO's, traditional AIO's are plentiful, but many will have a cold plate that is too small to properly cool a threadripper. AIO-like kits based on custom loop parts have always been kind of it or miss, offered some years for some parts, and not for others. They usually include some pretty serious cost compromises though.

You really should try building your own from scratch. it is the best way to get a well performing setup, and it is a long term investment, as you;ll be reusing the radiators, pumps, fittings, bends, etc. and even some blocks for years in build after build. It's time to take off the training wheels :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Customized water cooling is still a great way to get lower temps and lower noise.

Whether or not those lower temps actually result in better overclocks is a different story all together. Back in the day, in the ~32nm and higher era, overclocks were usually limited by thermals. If it wasn't stable, just increase voltage. It will output more heat though so you need more cooling.

That's not the way it works anymore. Overclocking is way more hit or miss. Low temperatures can help, but you are also much more likely to hit a hard wall based on chip quality and design than we were back then.

When it comes to AIO's, traditional AIO's are plentiful, but many will have a cold plate that is too small to properly cool a threadripper. AIO-like kits based on custom loop parts have always been kind of it or miss, offered some years for some parts, and not for others. They usually include some pretty serious cost compromises though.

You really should try building your own from scratch. it is the best way to get a well performing setup, and it is a long term investment, as you;ll be reusing the radiators, pumps, fittings, bends, etc. and even some blocks for years in build after build. It's time to take off the training wheels :p
Click to expand...
My only issue with my custom loop is that installing a block on a GPU (or buying a pre-blocked GPU) makes it more of a pain to swap those around to other systems - unless everything is WCed. And with the number of boxen I have... that's a shit load of WC kit. 1st world problems sure, but...
 
lopoetve said:
My only issue with my custom loop is that installing a block on a GPU (or buying a pre-blocked GPU) makes it more of a pain to swap those around to other systems - unless everything is WCed. And with the number of boxen I have... that's a shit load of WC kit. 1st world problems sure, but...
Click to expand...
thats why ive modded my G12 brackoot, twice. :)
 
pendragon1 said:
lol depends on what your putting it on but generally custom out performs aios.
kits have always been few and far between.
the new threadrippers use the same socket as the old ones and the block should work fine. thats what j2c used in the video ive mentioned before in the other threads.
View attachment 618628
Click to expand...
Okay that's good. So the kit I linked should just work
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-pro-qdc-kit-p360-amd-str-sp3

Will changing the radiator in the above kit to 480mm improve performance? Or the best combination is what's in the kit?

The screenshot of the j2c video confused me because the waterblock actual shape is different from the one on the box:
Threadripper waterblock.jpg

Zarathustra[H] said:
Yeah, back when I thought I was going to get a new Threadripper at launch, I contacted Watercool to see if my Heatkiller IV for TRX40 would work on TRX50, and they told me that on paper both dimension and retention force were a fit, they just hadn't made any official claims yet as they didn't have any TRX50 hardware to test on at that time.
Click to expand...

Zarathustra[H] said:
Customized water cooling is still a great way to get lower temps and lower noise.

Whether or not those lower temps actually result in better overclocks is a different story all together. Back in the day, in the ~32nm and higher era, overclocks were usually limited by thermals. If it wasn't stable, just increase voltage. It will output more heat though so you need more cooling.

That's not the way it works anymore. Overclocking is way more hit or miss. Low temperatures can help, but you are also much more likely to hit a hard wall based on chip quality and design than we were back then.

When it comes to AIO's, traditional AIO's are plentiful, but many will have a cold plate that is too small to properly cool a threadripper. AIO-like kits based on custom loop parts have always been kind of it or miss, offered some years for some parts, and not for others. They usually include some pretty serious cost compromises though.

You really should try building your own from scratch. it is the best way to get a well performing setup, and it is a long term investment, as you;ll be reusing the radiators, pumps, fittings, bends, etc. and even some blocks for years in build after build. It's time to take off the training wheels :p
Click to expand...
Even if it doesn't help overclocking, you will need it if you decide to overclock. Thanks.
 
sram said:
Okay that's good. So the kit I linked should just work
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-pro-qdc-kit-p360-amd-str-sp3

Will changing the radiator in the above kit to 480mm improve performance? Or the best combination is what's in the kit?

The screenshot of the j2c video confused me because the waterblock actual shape is different from the one on the box:
View attachment 618846



Even if it doesn't help overclocking, you will need it if you decide to overclock. Thanks.
Click to expand...
it should.
yes. generally each 120mm section of rad is good for about 100w.
ok. talk to ek about the packaging i guess...
 
pendragon1 said:
it should.
yes. generally each 120mm section of rad is good for about 100w.
ok. talk to ek about the packaging i guess...
Click to expand...
Just thought of something. If 120mm is good for only 100 watts, then you will need at least ~ two 480mm radiators to dissipate the heat of a cpu drawing ~ 800-1000 watts! . I was thinking to use one custom loop with one 480mm radiator. Are you implying that I might double radiators?
 
sram said:
Just thought of something. If 120mm is good for only 100 watts, then you will need at least ~ two 480mm radiators to dissipate the heat of a cpu drawing ~ 800-1000 watts! . I was thinking to use one custom loop with one 480mm radiator. Are you implying that I might double radiators?
Click to expand...
That's the rule of thumb for NORMAL cpus. Threadrippers are obviously a tad bit different.
It's going to depend on the amount of heat your 800-1000w CPU puts out underload. Have you seen any reviews of them? What were they using to cool them? If it truly puts out 1000w your likely going to need dual 420/480s.

The EK pe rads aren't what you want for that CPU. They're from EKs old series of rads and don't perform very well. For a tr, you want either EKs new Quantum series (runner up to hwlabs) or Hardwarelabs (as good as it gets). 50-55mm rads, with the best fans you can afford. Phanteks t30s are what I would go with personally, particularly if you want to save your hearing. Another option would be a Watercool Mo-ra3 420 pro, type external rad. Tbh, I would suggest this.

If you're trying to cool that much wattage from your CPU alone and then a GPU...no kit can handle that, period. A custom loop is your only option. An AIO, hsf is laughable.
 
sram said:
Just thought of something. If 120mm is good for only 100 watts, then you will need at least ~ two 480mm radiators to dissipate the heat of a cpu drawing ~ 800-1000 watts! . I was thinking to use one custom loop with one 480mm radiator. Are you implying that I might double radiators?
Click to expand...
you think to much. just a rule of thumb like posted above, plus youre assuming everything based on that friggin ln2 video. if you watched the jays2cents video, he used 2 420x30 rads to handle it at 600-700w. one 420 will handle it normal OCing it just wont be as cool as your LN2 vid....
 
pendragon1 said:
you think to much. just a rule of thumb like posted above, plus youre assuming everything based on that friggin ln2 video. if you watched the jays2cents video, he used 2 420x30 rads to handle it at 600-700w. one 420 will handle it normal OCing it just wont be as cool as your LN2 vid....
Click to expand...
Yeah you are right. I'm not going to do a very extreme overclock with LN2 which made the cpu draw about 1000 watts. But still it will draw close to 500-600 watts when overclocked and under load, so with that rule of thumb it sounds like I need more than one radiator. Too bad.
 
hititnquitit said:
That's the rule of thumb for NORMAL cpus. Threadrippers are obviously a tad bit different.
It's going to depend on the amount of heat your 800-1000w CPU puts out underload. Have you seen any reviews of them? What were they using to cool them? If it truly puts out 1000w your likely going to need dual 420/480s.

The EK pe rads aren't what you want for that CPU. They're from EKs old series of rads and don't perform very well. For a tr, you want either EKs new Quantum series (runner up to hwlabs) or Hardwarelabs (as good as it gets). 50-55mm rads, with the best fans you can afford. Phanteks t30s are what I would go with personally, particularly if you want to save your hearing. Another option would be a Watercool Mo-ra3 420 pro, type external rad. Tbh, I would suggest this.

If you're trying to cool that much wattage from your CPU alone and then a GPU...no kit can handle that, period. A custom loop is your only option. An AIO, hsf is laughable.
Click to expand...
I see. Not only you need a huge power supply or two, you also need some serious custom watercooling loop.

If you're trying to cool that much wattage from your CPU alone and then a GPU...no kit can handle that, period. A custom loop is your only option. An AIO, hsf is laughable.
Click to expand...

I was trying to explore options and make it easy on myself, but this last sentence of yours made it clear. Thanks.
 
If you have a large enough case, can you just daisy chain radiators without worrying about changing something else in a pre-configured kit? I mean will adding more radiators require for example more pump power or anything like that? Also, regarding fans, I used to get gentle typhoons which were the best at some point in time. Are they still a thing?

This is the radiator you meant, right?

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-surface-x480m-white

And why their cpu waterblocks are super expensive:
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-magnitude-strx4-full-nickel

Because they outperform others by a big margin? LOL you can get 2 AIO's for the price of one of these!
 
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You can run as many rads as you want to but yes, you will need to add a pump at a some point. You don't have to daisy chain them, you can place your rads anywhere in the loop, it won't effect your temps or flow. Usually at the third large rad is where a d5 will start to have a hard time purging and that's where you'll need to add an additional pump.

I believe gentle typhoons are still being manufactured but I couldn't say for sure. Iirc they are being sold under different manufacturers names. You'll have to dig into that some. They used to be great fans and are the basis for which most modern fans were built.

Yep, those are the EK rads I was talking about.
 
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Thanks buddy. How about the water blocks? Do they deserve this price? Maybe their thermal conductivity is top notch that's why are so expensive?
 
To note those 900w-1000w we see are often with the high core count threadrippers.

Are you going with the 7960x/7970x ?

7970x whole system with PBO on can stay below 600w, i imagine a bit less on 7960x.

I could be all wrong, but it would make some sense
 
sram said:
Thanks buddy. How about the water blocks? Do they deserve this price? Maybe their thermal conductivity is top notch that's why are so expensive?
Click to expand...
NP, Glad to help!

Which ones specifically are you looking at? If they are EK, your going to be paying what we in the wcing world call the "EK tax". Generally anything EK is marked up 25-50% more than it should be. So definitely spend the time doing your due diligence when shopping for CPU blocks. They do make solid blocks but there are almost always better price to performance options.
 
hititnquitit said:
NP, Glad to help!

Which ones specifically are you looking at? If they are EK, your going to be paying what we in the wcing world call the "EK tax". Generally anything EK is marked up 25-50% more than it should be. So definitely spend the time doing your due diligence when shopping for CPU blocks. They do make solid blocks but there are almost always better price to performance options.
Click to expand...
I see. So EK are little pricey and not every buck is justifiable. I was referring to this block:
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-magnitude-strx4-full-nickel

That's just too expensive.
 
LukeTbk said:
To note those 900w-1000w we see are often with the high core count threadrippers.

Are you going with the 7960x/7970x ?

7970x whole system with PBO on can stay below 600w, i imagine a bit less on 7960x.

I could be all wrong, but it would make some sense
Click to expand...
I'm going with 7970X. But I want to do more than just enabling PBO. It is part of the fun.
 
sram said:
I'm going with 7970X. But I want to do more than just enabling PBO. It is part of the fun.
Click to expand...
To give some raw clue of what a 7970x could push, the 900w or so when pushed CPU used over 700w with just PBO-power limit off I think.

I would look (if possible, maybe people doing this always push the high core count) if the 7970x are able to go into those kind of power enveloppe.

After at it is "only" double the core count of the regular 7950x
 
LukeTbk said:
To give some raw clue of what a 7970x could push, the 900w or so when pushed CPU used over 700w with just PBO-power limit off I think.

I would look (if possible, maybe people doing this always push the high core count) if the 7970x are able to go into those kind of power enveloppe.

After at it is "only" double the core count of the regular 7950x
Click to expand...
Yeah, it is a huge amount of watts to cool. But I'll have to wait and see how much it does actually draw and what sorts of temps I will get while at stock and under load.
 
In EK,

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/checkout/cart/

you can use the online configurator to build a loop yourself. It wasn't working at the beginning but they helped me getting it to work. I got what you see in the image:

While I was configuring this, it said the cooling power of this selected radiator is 989 Watts (I don't know based on what). The total price is about 800$.

So, I guess adding an additional 360mm radiator to this collection will complete it and be good for my 7970X cooling needs. The D5 pump can be used for two radiators as they said.
 

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