Antec TruePower 380w, or Antec 400w?

bobsaget said:
Nah, either one is plenty to go around...
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Ignore the n00bie under my name.

They may be enough but when you are running a PSU at it's max all the time, they run hot, and have shorter life. A 500W+ PSU may be overkill, but it will also last longer and deliver more stable power. (rails have high current ratings, voltages stay up better under high load)

I was always told when I built my system "300W is good enough" but after killing 2 of them within months, I went to a 520W PSU and it runs cooler, and has lasted me a LONG time. Also, my overclock was better with a better PSU.

Also, go with a bigger PSU if you want to be able to upgrade without worrying about the PSU not being big enough.
 
I have the True 480 W and it gives me perfect power

12v-12v
5v=5v
3.3v=3.3

I really barely have any fluctuations
 
I would have bought a 24 pin ATX12V v2 or current EPS12V
rather than that (list ATX in reality an ATX12V v1), and used a 20 pin converter
if you have the option to cancel, you might give that some thought
will have a much longer usable life
(in addition to fatter +12V rails under the spec)
 
Ice Czar said:
I would have bought a 24 pin ATX12V v2 or current EPS12V
rather than that (list ATX in reality an ATX12V v1), and used a 20 pin converter
if you have the option to cancel, you might give that some thought
will have a much longer usable life
(in addition to fatter +12V rails under the spec)
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Explain, please... ? What's changing?
 
lopoetve said:
Explain, please... ? What's changing?
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a more accurate question would be what isnt :p

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=772706
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=767023

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11279
When I initially asked about this on a mailing list, Solaris x86 advocate Al Hopper told me I was drowning in my tea, and that it was "all very simple". I love the simplicity of Unix people.

He explained that the later P4 CPUs take their power from a 12 Volt feed and, using the onboard voltage regulators, generate the high current, low-voltages they need to operate (anywhere from ~ 1.6V to around 2.7V). So the first requirement is a PSU that has plenty of power available from the 12V supply. Since the older ATX compatible PSUs didn't supply much current from the 12V section you have to ensure that your new PS delivers enough current (or power in Watts) from the 12V section. That's why using your old P3 ATX PS is a big "no-no".

He then described the history of the post-P3 power supply mess:

The earlier Athlon motherboard manufacturers decided to solve the 12v problem by using an additional 4-pin square connector to get the extra 12V those CPUs required. However many older PSUs didn't provide the 12V 4-pin square connector.

The motherboard makers then wised up and decided that there was nothing magical about a square 4-pin connector, so they put a normal hard disk type socket on the motherboard and provided the 12v power via a standard hard disk (4-pin inline) connector. Problem solved - you may now use your older PSUs provided they supply sufficient 12V current (many did not).

Further confusion came from PSU manufacturers not specifying the capabilities of the PSU in a way that allowed the end user to verify it's 12V power output rating.

In the meantime the ATX spec was saying "use the new 6-pin" inline connector - and very few motherboard makers implemented it.

Just to be sure, some motherboard makers, implemented *both* the hard disk style 4-pin inline connector and the square 4-pin connector. They said "use either or both in any combination you like".

The spec then evolved to the 24-pin main connector. Again, most motherboard manufacturers did not wish to make their customers mad by mandating that they replace their power supplies. This might cause their customers to avoid motherboard upgrades. Some used a "special" 24-pin connector with the extra 4-pin connection blocked off, or colored so that the user could plugin a 20-pin plug into the correct end of the 24-pin socket on the motherboard. Many others simply ignored the 24-pin requirement in the specs. Again - problem solved - use your older PSU.
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so what you have is a true FUBAR situation
24 pin mains are here to stay, either with the next mobo or the one after that
ATX12V (both interations) dictate dual +12V rails
(one has a 20 pin the other a 24 pin main, but both have the extra rail w\ 4pin aux),
and EPS12V has from 3 to 4 +12V rails

6.1.1 12V Power Rail Configuration

There are two types of 12V rail configurations for systems: 'Common plane' and "Split plane' processor power delivery. The 'common plane' system has both processors powered from a single 12V rail (+12V1) from the power supply. The 'split plane' system has both processors powered by seperate 12V rails (+12V1 and +12V2) one dedicated to each processor. The system in both cases, has an additional 12V rail to power the rest of the baseboard +12V loads and dc/dc converters. +12V1, +12V2 and +12V3 should not be connected together on the baseboard to ensure that 240VA protection circuits in the power supply operate properly

Table 6: 12V Rail Summary
........................................................................................................................................................................................
Common Plane System........................................................Split Plane System
+12V1........Processors.........................................................+12V1........Processor 1
+12V2........Baseboard components other than processors.......+12V2........Processor 2
+12V3........Drives and peripherals..........................................+12V3........Baseboards and components other than processors
...........................................................................................+12V4........Drives and peripherals
Click to expand...

while there are adaptors of various types which +12V rail is attaching to what also comes into play (for the auxillaries)

every interation of either spec from Formfactor.org or SSI
increases the +12V rail output, and with animals like PCI Express, SLI, ect in the wings
there are no signs of it reversing, in addition all BTX mobos will have 24 pin if actually built to spec :p
 
So what does that mean for me, someone who plans on avoiding BTX till I have no choice (I think the design is stupid, inefficient, and poorly timed).
 
well if your headed to workstation territory youll need EPS12V period (server\dual CPU)
if your sticking with ATX youll also need a 24pin ATX12V v2 compliant PSU within the next mobo or 2, and if your adopting PCI Express, the same
the little shell game of dancing around the 24 pin spec is going to end

your current buy is fine for today, but its not the same "infrastructure" investemnt it would have been in years past, for that youd need 24 pin + 4 or 8 pin aux and the fattest +12V rails as you can manage ;)

if you go EPS12V you get the 3 seperate +12V rails (minimum),
but you have an 8 pin aux that you need to find a converter for
and the same for 24 pin to 20,
if there isnt clearance on the mobo to hook either or both directly

if you go ATX12V v2, you need the 24 to 20 if there isnt clearence but the 4 pin is correct

there are 4 pin converters out there that could be used to transform a normal 4 pin molex into a 4pin mobo +12V aux connector, but they are really designed for older ATX power supplies with a single +12V rail (if its big enough)
so if they are used to convert an EPS12V to the 4 pin spec, they are grabbing the power off the wrong +12V rail, Ive yet to find an 8 pin to 4 pin converter to employ an EPS12V (which would have the widest possible application) to an ATX12V 4 pin aux
so as of right now, either there is clearence on the board, build your own, or get the ATX12V v2
 
I'll worry about that when I can't find a mobo that will take this PS... Burn that bridge when I come to it.
 
Shackmaster said:
Yes. That PSU will much better suit your needs for an A64 system.

IMO the 380 or the 400 is just getting by for an A64 system.
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just getting by? i use the 380 and i've had a 110watt cpu load, 4 hard drives, a cd-rom, two PCI cards,and 15watts in fans running on it. not a problem. a QUALITY 380 watt PSU will go a long way.

if you get a budget 380watt PSU* then you'd be scraping by.
 
I've had a 9600XT, a 3200+, two sticks of ram, a couple of hard drives, and a couple of optical drives, a webcam, a usb mouse, and many fans all hooked up to my 300w Antec for about a year, no problems at all...
 
bobsaget said:
I've had a 9600XT, a 3200+, two sticks of ram, a couple of hard drives, and a couple of optical drives, a webcam, a usb mouse, and many fans all hooked up to my 300w Antec for about a year, no problems at all...
Click to expand...
The original poster was looking for a psu to power athlon 64, and the 6800 GT, 2 of the most power hungry consumer parts on the market..... so I dont think your success with what Im assuming is an xp system with a 9600 really applies.
 
1. Watts as rated with various power supplies, means next to nothing
(without the proven veracity of a manufacturer)

2. Amps as rated by various power supplies, also mean next to nothing
(without the proven veracity of a manufacturer)

3. Most rigs actually consume around 250 to 300 watts or less as added by a calculator with all the components at maximum load

4. the way you torture a power supply, is load it right up next to its load capacity,
then ask it to deal with an AC source surge to a brownout,
at the same time there is a shift in the internal load
with a high room ambient,
yet still maintain the output regulation with low AC ripple and noise
within the spec for the rail,
to a voltage regulation scheme on the mobo of unknown quality

5. Special conditions exist, overclocking at the edge of stability where voltage regulation is far "touchier",
spinning up alot of commponts at one time, big storage arrays
running alot of extras, pumps, fans, TEC ect
poor utility power history, hot weather brownouts,
the operating environment, what is the thermal solution like, makes a big difference
the useage pattern heavy multitasking, actually pushing those components


anybody see all the variables in this equation?
bobsaget you might have higher quailty source power than the next guy
or just a reputable PSU that actually rated the Amps with a useful unacceptable sag rating instead of when a fuse blew,
your mobo might have high quality VR components

Ive stopped believing any rated specs without independent and controlled repeatable verification,
and I dont mean reviews about weight fit and finish,
Im talking oscilloscope and variable AC source, and a measured transient response.
In short, when did the power supply safely shutdown without frying anything,
was it able to maintain a stable volatge when tortured all the way up to that point?

anything else is just talking in circles
(especially when Watts is mentioned, n00bs look at that and dont look further)
this is still just a link in a chain of power delivery, and empirical testimony is still valuable
but within context ;)

we need to start supplying more of that context
actually bobsaget did a pretty good job of that :D would have asked what the source is like, UPS? good utility, few brownouts? any PSU shutdowns?
any corruption or RAM errors? ect
what mobo, what usage pattern, running heavy multitasking, ect
 
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